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[Deleted member 775630]

Content on YouTube is fundamentally made to be seen, this should be elementary.
Learn to think.

Yeah, thanks for breaking that down for me. Wondering if your are very dense, a fanboy or just trolling. You call me out, because you misunderstood what I wrote, and now you're trying to spin this as if it's my fault that you didn't take the time to read a couple of sentences properly.

 

[reksveks]

If it let's you play non PS5 games on PS5, it's BC no matter how you slice it.

You might not like a "PSNow paywall", but that's business these days. We don't technically "own" games anymore, even if we purchase discs, as per the terms of service. I'm pretty sure that discs are just a base game installation medium now, even then we must download patches and updates to be allowed to play many games.

For what it's worth, I think even XB's BC just uses your old disc as an authentication thing, and downloads a digital copy of a game. Isn't that what "smart delivery" is all aboit? Serving you up the correct digital version of your game based on your hardware?

If it runs locally on the PS5 then it's BC, i will wait to see it when it gets revealed. Yes, Xbox BC requires the disc as a license.

 

[IbelieveInGenerations]

We don't know that as if it's dynamic we don't know how often each version runs at full 4K or maintains 120fps and we don't know the lower limits on each. When we know this then we will know if they are the same or not.

We Will see the non existent differences through the lens of Alex with its 800% zoom

 

[PropellerEar]

Wondering if your are very dense, a fanboy or just trolling.

 

[azertydu91]

Missed words? Writing? You mispelled that by the way.

You are the one talking gibberish as you won't answer direct questions.

The video in question states that they went to the coalition and with that sort of inside access couldn't say anything bad because they would be blacklisted and lose access to that sort of inside knowledge. I say they went to Crytek and did exactly that. Deny the video says that.

You say why didn't they talk about variable resolutions etc on Halo Infinite, I said because it's a PC version, that isnt a "PC argument" it's a statement of fact. When have Digital Foundry pixel counted a PC game before? What would be the point of pixel counting a PC game? What would it prove about the XSX version that nobody has seen?

Maybe they didn't try to spin the lower frame rates and lower resolution of Xbox One S games because they don't spin anything, they are measurable by other parties to and are measured by other outlets. The very definition of what they do can't be spun because other people can measure them too.

So to you DF si not biased toward MS because they criticized Crytek ? Please take a moment and think about it, take your time.

You know there are example ITT about Richard damage controlling the Xbox one?So they didn't counted pixel but if it is really representative of then XSX performance would it be the bare minimum to talk about the scale from which resolution varies ?And still show me a video where they explain that being in the shadow lower the perceived quality of texture in any video?
Because Halo is certainly not the first game that has shadows.

Then look at Aceofspades post a bit above yours where Richard explain that xbox one is perfectly capable of 1080p.
Beside your answers are really selective not talking about RT when I mentionned it.But if you think they aren't biased and all that is normal please do the same but for playstation, please do I'll wait.You may find what the video where playstation 4 has a clear advantage and can't be spun otherwise.When for playstation have they stated a game ran at higher resolution than it actually did ?Where have they downplayed Xbox?Are the 12 TF an overkill like the rops ?

The only point you have is they said bad things about crysis and the series S ... But reading a script for Gears 5 is Okay, downplaying playstation is Okay, let's remember that Alex even though after it was confirmed that Ps5 had raytracing hardware would still say otherwise, when he had no problem believing Xbox had it.

 

[Dibils2k]

I mean your whole console of choice (XSX) is all about currentgen games in higher fps and nothing more.

butthurt much? i will have a PS5 and XSX, cause i am not a loser that aligns with a brand

 

[Moridianae]

HipHop doubled down big time on this BC, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until we see what is really planned. If he has enough clout to get Adam Boyes for a guest shot, then I'll give him the grain of salt for now. Gonna be interesting if he crashes and burns after this.

PS Now being the solution for BC makes the most sense, as it opens up PlayStation's massive library of former gems(in theory, depending on what they add). I had a theory a while back in here that if they even did something, it would be monetized into a revamped PS Now rather than disc-based BC.

This gives them a pretty large value, assuming they have a similar pricing structure and put a strong library up of initial classics across PS1-PS3.

If they are able to be downloaded, that adds more value. It could give them some room to stand ground against Game Pass, even if their strategy doesn't revolve around that.

If they *do* have something like this planned, we will have to find out soon. It is now Oct. 1st. In less than two weeks, the systems will be out in a month. Time to open up.

 

[reksveks]

So to you DF si not biased toward MS because they criticized Crytek ? Please take a moment and think about it, take your time.

I think read comprehension failure on your part azerty, Riky's point is that if the logic is that they were influence by getting access to the Coalition so that they wouldn't post anything negative about Coalition/Microsoft. Clearly that logic didn't apply to Crytek which either leads to various conclusions.
1 - They don't care about inside access to Crytek as much as they do Microsoft (to me the more negative viewpoint and slightly conspiratorial conclusion)
2 - They still uphold a sense of ethnics and still found it worthwhile criticising Crytek's decisions at the cost of possibly losing access.

 

[ksdixon]

I thought you CAN download games with PSNow, or is this not every game? Just some?

Currently it's not all games. I think the PS3 ones are stream-only, whereas PS2/4 ones can be downlaoded.

GAF machine 's detective skills suggest that PS5 disc drive will emulate reading of PS1-2-3 discs.
HHG suggests is that discs will be authenticated against a server, then downloaded to PS5 and run in a virtual machine of that console's OS - sort of like how PSNow PS3 games have that gimped version of PS3's OS baked-into them. I would have to assume that in terms of digital purchases, either PSNow will gain lots of PS1-2-3 games, or the PS5 PStore will be expanded to recognise your previous digital purchases of PS1-2-3 games and let you download them.

 

[Lysandros]

Just look at how Rich went full damage control during PS4 / XboxOne launch period enjoy reading in the quoted, I already posted that almost two years ago on this same thread , still hilarious to this day, especially the part saying 16Rops is more than enough for 1080p knowing how XboxOne barely reach this resolution if ever lol

This is his magnum opus.

 

[FunkMiller]

I exactly did, went in with an open mind. I should've known better, because well these are youtube content creators, they tend to push a certain narrative for clicks. Which was actually the case.

TL;DR: It is clear why he made this video. He wants more clicks, and he wants the people watching the DF video's to watch his video's. I get that. But the way he tries to achieve this, is by exaggerating, taking things out of context, all of that to fit a narrative. On top of that, by far the worst part of it all, is that he might be pushing a person to end it all. Stirring old shit up, jumping on the DF bias bandwagon, all for his own "brand growth", knowing fully well what this does to him. Based on nothing, but his own interpretations. That's so fucking despicable. Kingthrash

Breakdown of every issue I had with each section.

Scripted Gears Ultimate remaster video
No proof at all, he just thinks and feels the coalition gave them a script, or the information to write such a script. Apparently when DF creates content they have to sound incoherent, and can't take the time to write something proper.

Gears 5
This is where I got annoyed, and decided to put more time into this than I wanted. DF used an interview they did with The Coalition as one of many sources to highlight new elements in the game.What is so wrong with this? If you had the possibility to interview ND, and they explain you how they did the animations when a character moves through the water, wouldn't you use this? To explain the watcher/listener how this works? I don't even get the problem here.

Then he get this old post from NeoGAF where he already broke his issues down, and DF even took the time to answer all these questions honestly here. What is exactly the problem with his answers? Apparently in that thread, not that many issues anymore after DF answered them, but of course he doesn't properly show that in the video, because that doesn't fit the narrative. He sums it up by saying, DF just has "excuses". DF even said we only had 3-4 days with Gears 5 while we had 2-3 weeks with Spider-Man. That's why the Spider-Man analysis was more extensive when it came to reflections and stuff like that. You work with the time you have. But again, we don't mention this, because well narrative...

Crackdown 3
No proof at all again, just his interpretation of the video that is different from DF's analysis. But no proof...

Demon Souls RT
Tries to make a case that DF deliberately didn't want to see Demon Souls RT, while knowing a lot about it. His case is that on the one had DF wants to see the final build of Demons Souls to spot RT and see the difference between performance/non-performance mode, and how they implemented RT. While a couple of months ago they said RT might solve some problems for Halo Infinite and went very deep into RT tech. What he fails to mention, is that these were two different people reviewing... I understand that you would want DF to have a similar output of views, but these are two different people, at different times, looking at a game from a different angle with a different goal of the video.

That whole part was just a rambling of personal interpretations, and the only argument he really has is that DF can't drop a ball on ANYTHING. Every video has to be completely analysed completely, every aspect has to be discussed, and if they forget just one thing, he hits on that. Saying there is pattern, when there really isn't any.

I think it would be extremely healthy for all of us if outlets like DF clearly declared what involvement they have with the video game companies they analyse. This would prevent the endless back and forth about who may or may not be biased towards one company or another, because it would indicate if the outlet is receiving benefits for the job that they are doing.

Personally, I think any critical or analytical outlet of any type should never accept free gifts, invitations or other perks from any company whose products they analyse and critique as part of their work. I'm afraid I do think the DF have greatly benefitted from a close relationship with Microsoft, and this has affected their objectivity.

 

[Riky]

So to you DF si not biased toward MS because they criticized Crytek ? Please take a moment and think about it, take your time.

You know there are example ITT about Richard damage controlling the Xbox one?So they didn't counted pixel but if it is really representative of then XSX performance would it be the bare minimum to talk about the scale from which resolution varies ?And still show me a video where they explain that being in the shadow lower the perceived quality of texture in any video?
Because Halo is certainly not the first game that has shadows.

Then look at Aceofspades post a bit above yours where Richard explain that xbox one is perfectly capable of 1080p.
Beside your answers are really selective not talking about RT when I mentionned it.But if you think they aren't biased and all that is normal please do the same but for playstation, please do I'll wait.You may find what the video where playstation 4 has a clear advantage and can't be spun otherwise.When for playstation have they stated a game ran at higher resolution than it actually did ?Where have they downplayed Xbox?Are the 12 TF an overkill like the rops ?

The only point you have is they said bad things about crysis and the series S ... But reading a script for Gears 5 is Okay, downplaying playstation is Okay, let's remember that Alex even though after it was confirmed that Ps5 had raytracing hardware would still say otherwise, when he had no problem believing Xbox had it.

The Crytek part is to disprove the reasoning stated in the video behind the claim. The video states it's about access to inside information, that DF have to tow the line because of that access. However they have that access to other developers and guess what, they analysed the games and criticized them. That proves that the "blacklisting" theory is wrong. Also it is a lie to state in that video that Sony don't give them access they do, Leadbetter was going to go meat Cerny in person and was only prevented by Covid. They then spoke over Zoom instead.

You still haven't told me when DF pixel counted a PC game, why that would be relevant and what it would prove about the XSX version. You realise this game will also be running on X1S, X1X and XSS? It is their biggest franchise but not indicative of the capabilities of the XSX as it is a cross Gen game.

They said they need to see the final version of DS to confirm what Ray Tracing there is, maybe because it has two modes and it may be absent on one and present on the other? Or maybe lesser on the other? We don't know until final version is available. Doing in depth analysis of unfinished games only offers so much whether it is Halo or Demon Souls.

I just saw a tweet from John congratulating Insomniac on the Ray Tracing in Spiderman remaster, some heavy bias and spin right there.

Like I said, DF are based about measurable and repeatable metrics, other parties can and do this work.

 

[azertydu91]

I think read comprehension failure on your part azerty, Riky's point is that if the logic is that they were influence by getting access to the Coalition so that they wouldn't post anything negative about Coalition/Microsoft. Clearly that logic didn't apply to Crytek which either leads to various conclusions.
1 - They don't care about inside access to Crytek as much as they do Microsoft (to me the more negative viewpoint and slightly conspiratorial conclusion)
2 - They still uphold a sense of ethnics and still found it worthwhile criticising Crytek's decisions at the cost of possibly losing access.

Alright but the point of the video was not that access grant makes you biased, simply that Df is biased toward Xbox.
So that's an extrapolation that is not the point.I never said that since they had access to information they were biased.
It really is just me saying they are biased toward MS not once did I mentionned inside access and that it was what made them biased.It is just an assumption on his part.So sure based on his assumption, from his point of view, his point would be valid but not once have I said it was the case.

And I don't think you can based your point on an assumption.

 

[reksveks]

This whole thing about DF just feels too much like the general distrust in experts in other fields like science, its just a bit depressing and i am bored of it so I am going to stay out of it.

 

[xacto]

butthurt much? i will have a PS5 and XSX, cause i am not a loser that aligns with a brand

So the people aligning with one brand only are losers. Your logic is immense, just like XSX BC.

 

[Handy Fake]

I think it would be extremely healthy for all of us if outlets like DF clearly declared what involvement they have with the video game companies they analyse. This would prevent the endless back and forth about who may or may not be biased towards one company or another, because it would indicate if the outlet is receiving benefits for the job that they are doing.

Personally, I think any critical or analytical outlet of any type should never accept free gifts, invitations or other perks from any company whose products they analyse and critique as part of their work. I'm afraid I do think the DF have greatly benefitted from a close relationship with Microsoft, and this has affected their objectivity.

It should really fall under the YouTube policy of declaring sponsorship.

 

[Lysandros]

So the people aligning with one brand only are losers. Your logic is immense, just like XSX BC.

This 'immense' thing should be a reference for the ages.

 

[Games Bookstore]

Currently it's not all games. I think the PS3 ones are stream-only, whereas PS2/4 ones can be downlaoded.

GAF machine 's detective skills suggest that PS5 disc drive will emulate reading of PS1-2-3 discs.
HHG suggests is that discs will be authenticated against a server, then downloaded to PS5 and run in a virtual machine of that console's OS - sort of like how PSNow PS3 games have that gimped version of PS3's OS baked-into them. I would have to assume that in terms of digital purchases, either PSNow will gain lots of PS1-2-3 games, or the PS5 PStore will be expanded to recognise your previous digital purchases of PS1-2-3 games and let you download them.

That is all well and good to theorise about BC, you also have to consider PS4 Laser Diodes do not read CDs at all, only DVDs and Blurays, as a cost saving measure.

Should PS5 follow the same trend as its predecessor, it will be unable to read PS1 games and some early gen PS2 games that were shipped on CD instead of DVD (Ridge Racer 5 and Tekken Tag Tournament spring to mind).

If that is the case PS1 and some PS2 games would only be available to PS5 users digitally or streaming through PSNow.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

This whole thing about DF just feels too much like the general distrust in experts in other fields like science, its just a bit depressing and i am bored of it so I am going to stay out of it.

Scientists have higher standards than DF. I like DF, but I think this comparison misses the mark. People who distrust science are idiots. Science opens itself to questions, and encourages it. Theories should be tested, and put through rigorous scientific evaluation. DF could improve their credibility by imposing stricter standards on how they conduct their analysis videos. The lack of consistency cannot be denied, even by those of us who enjoy their videos. That's the crux of the matter. They are inconsistent, and thus provide openings for questions of credibility. These are self-inflicted wounds, which they honestly don't need to worry about. People still subscribe and view their content, so no harm, no foul. But then it's no different from a gaming outlet sticking to click-baiting headlines, because the ding to their credibility is outweighed by the increased readership.

Personally, I think establishing standards for when and how video analysis is conducted, would benefit DF subscribers, and their critics alike. Anything that falls outside of those standards can be labeled as OT/Opinion, in order to differentiate from the more structured content. This allows them to continue covering content in the manner that they choose, but with clear labels on which videos contain their more proven methods, and which ones don't. They don't even need to retroactively label content, just make the format change future-forward. Any new content can then be categorized correctly. Now is as good a time as any, as we're starting a new generation.

 

[Dibils2k]

So the people aligning with one brand only are losers. Your logic is immense, just like XSX BC.

when it makes people act the way he acted, then yeah you are a loser. literally bringing up Xbox on a post thats about a 3rd party game throwing out baseless accusations and cant handle the fact peoples opinions arent based purely on brand

this thread becomes more of a joke each passing day with sony fanboys, if your post isnt praising sony and bashing everything else you know you gonna be jumped

its gotten so bad people here think i am a Xbox only gamer cause they dont know what it look like to be a neutral

 

[azertydu91]

The Crytek part is to disprove the reasoning stated in the video behind the claim. The video states it's about access to inside information, that DF have to tow the line because of that access. However they have that access to other developers and guess what, they analysed the games and criticized them. That proves that the "blacklisting" theory is wrong. Also it is a lie to state in that video that Sony don't give them access they do, Leadbetter was going to go meat Cerny in person and was only prevented by Covid. They then spoke over Zoom instead.

You still haven't told me when DF pixel counted a PC game, why that would be relevant and what it would prove about the XSX version. You realise this game will also be running on X1S, X1X and XSS? It is their biggest franchise but not indicative of the capabilities of the XSX as it is a cross Gen game.

They said they need to see the final version of DS to confirm what Ray Tracing there is, maybe because it has two modes and it may be absent on one and present on the other? Or maybe lesser on the other? We don't know until final version is available. Doing in depth analysis of unfinished games only offers so much whether it is Halo or Demon Souls.

I just saw a tweet from John congratulating Insomniac on the Ray Tracing in Spiderman remaster, some heavy bias and spin right there.

Like I said, DF are based about measurable and repeatable metrics, other parties can and do this work.

Alright if he did say that it was because they had access they couldn't talk shit about gears then I reckon it's a bad point but do you reckon that this doesn't mean they aren't bias just that his explanation of why for this particular instance is wrong.
Next point of yours now you can't analyse games if they are cross gen ?And what would it says about the Series x ? Yeah nothing but do they analyse consoles or games ?Does the people wanting to play the next Halo on their pc can just go fuck themselves ?So this just mean that MS lied and Halo is not representative of what the game is.No matter if it is cross gen or not it didn't bothered them for Dirt 5.And for Halo pop in, textures, geometry, agressive VRS etc can't be analysed.

Do you really think that the only gameplay of a MS exclusive is not worth analysing in details ?That a video finding excuses (like the shadows and that MS paint representation) is what Digital Foundry should be about ?

And they need to see the final version of the game to know if there is raytracing , just like CGI expert can't analyse a trailer to know what kind of technique is used .....

Then there is the utmost stupid rethoric they said a good thing about sony so they're not biased .....Please refere to my child metaphor if you didn't understand it I can still dumb it down for you.


You still haven't answered about Richard downplaying Ps4 or lying about the capabilities of the Xbox one.

But sure pointing a thing they said were good about playstation is a better argument.

Here's your point :

He says it look good so he is not biased toward Xbox .... You may not know him but almost everybody here does and he is a joke.

 

[Zoro7]

when it makes people act the way he acted, then yeah you are a loser. literally bringing up Xbox on a post thats about a 3rd party game throwing out baseless accusations and cant handle the fact peoples opinions arent based purely on brand

this thread becomes more of a joke each passing day with sony fanboys, if your post isnt praising sony and bashing everything else you know you gonna be jumped

its gotten so bad people here think i am a Xbox only gamer cause they dont know how to be neutral

No one is 100% neutral.

 

[azertydu91]

Scientists have higher standards than DF. I like DF, but I think this comparison misses the mark. People who distrust science are idiots. Science opens itself to questions, and encourages it. Theories should be tested, and put through rigorous scientific evaluation. DF could improve their credibility by imposing stricter standards on how they conduct their analysis videos. The lack of consistency cannot be denied, even by those of us who enjoy their videos. That's the crux of the matter. They are inconsistent, and thus provide openings for questions of credibility. These are self-inflicted wounds, which they honestly don't need to worry about. People still subscribe and view their content, so no harm, no foul. But then it's no different from a gaming outlet sticking to click-baiting headlines, because the ding to their credibility is outweighed by the increased readership.

Personally, I think establishing standards for when and how video analysis is conducted, would benefit DF subscribers, and their critics alike. Anything that falls outside of those standards can be labeled as OT/Opinion, in order to differentiate from the more structured content. This allows them to continue covering content in the manner that they choose, but with clear labels on which videos contain their more proven methods, and which ones don't. They don't even need to retroactively label content, just make the format change future-forward. Any new content can then be categorized correctly. Now is as good a time as any, as we're starting a new generation.

Yep science based itself on trying its best to disprove itself, once unable to do it then it considers being right.
And for that they always use the same tools and techniques across all theories.

Digital foundry doesn't use the same tools for every games and even better when proved wrong will get you banned (see nib95 vs dicktator on ERA where quoting Alex that disproves himself got him banned).

In science if someone proves you wrong and after carefully check if the parameters of the experience were adequate then you can conclude you were wrong.It's not he disagreed so I banned him I'm the best.(it sometimes can be like that we've seen it with Hydroxychloroquine)

 

[ksdixon]

That is all well and good to theorise about BC, you also have to consider PS4 Laser Diodes do not read CDs at all, only DVDs and Blurays, as a cost saving measure.

Should PS5 follow the same trend as its predecessor, it will be unable to read PS1 games and some early gen PS2 games that were shipped on CD instead of DVD (Ridge Racer 5 and Tekken Tag Tournament spring to mind).

If that is the case PS1 and some PS2 games would only be available to PS5 users digitally or streaming through PSNow.

Did you see GAF machine 's posts regarding CLV and CAV read modes on PS5's disk tray? Between his detective work, and HHG doubling-down SO HARD, there might just be hope yet.

 

[sircaw]

I exactly did, went in with an open mind.


Scripted Gears Ultimate remaster video


No proof at all,

Gears 5


Crackdown 3
No proof at all again, just his interpretation of the video that is different from DF's analysis. But no proof...

Why do you care about proof so much, Your ordering an xbox without seeing any games running on it.

sorry, i could not help myself.

 

[hemo memo]

You're right. It's fucking stupid.

But I'm not sure it's really much of an issue (for either console - XBox's approach has its own confusions).

Fact is, people with Ps5s/XsXs will buy Ps5/XsX versions of games. People with Ps4s/X1Xs will buy Ps4/X1X versions of games. I think all this cross-gen nonsense is way overhyped by the games companies.

I agree. I’m starting fresh on PS5 just to get away from all that.

 

[azertydu91]

Why do you care about proof so much, Your ordering an xbox without seeing any games running on it.

sorry, i could not help myself.

Beside thinking more than 2 sec how do you want proof of a bias ?Unless they come out and say "Yeah we're biased what you gonna do ?"

It's like asking a proof about being racist.

 

[Zoro7]

Why do you care about proof so much, Your ordering an xbox without seeing any games running on it.

sorry, i could not help myself.

This fish has bad attitude.

 

[reksveks]

Scientists have higher standards than DF. I like DF, but I think this comparison misses the mark. People who distrust science are idiots. Science opens itself to questions, and encourages it. Theories should be tested, and put through rigorous scientific evaluation. DF could improve their credibility by imposing stricter standards on how they conduct their analysis videos. The lack of consistency cannot be denied, even by those of us who enjoy their videos. That's the crux of the matter. They are inconsistent, and thus provide openings for questions of credibility. These are self-inflicted wounds, which they honestly don't need to worry about. People still subscribe and view their content, so no harm, no foul. But then it's no different from a gaming outlet sticking to click-baiting headlines, because the ding to their credibility is outweighed by the increased readership.

Personally, I think establishing standards for when and how video analysis is conducted, would benefit DF subscribers, and their critics alike. Anything that falls outside of those standards can be labeled as OT/Opinion, in order to differentiate from the more structured content. This allows them to continue covering content in the manner that they choose, but with clear labels on which videos contain their more proven methods, and which ones don't. They don't even need to retroactively label content, just make the format change future-forward. Any new content can then be categorized correctly. Now is as good a time as any, as we're starting a new generation.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't comparing them to scientists in terms of standards, just the attacks on them are either due to
1) either not liking their current conclusions, i want to highlight the words current because alot of people are missing that at the moment. All of the next-gen videos from DF at the moment, I wouldn't classify as analysis video as they haven't got the game in hard and aren't able to gain better insight into the engine and the way that the game does certain things. Alot of the attacks on the CDC feel unfair to me.
2) using it to bait clicks for themselves and to drive engagement.

I think they do follow the Eurogamers policies (https://www.eurogamer.net/policies) but yeah, I would like to see some better labelling however fear that might fuck up with Youtube's search algo abit but should still do it. I also would like them to post and they might have already but a bit more guidance into how they currently decide what decides what level of analysis and what stage can it be done it? Sadly the traffic for next gen games is probably too alluring for them at the moment.

 

[Dibils2k]

No one is 100% neutral.

i think for sure you can have a 100% neutral starting point, i buy all system so i can have the best experience wherever that may be

i do wanna make one thing clear, only being able to afford one system or just preferring one system does not make you a loser... but if you are attacking people for not bowing to your system of choice then you are a loser

 

[Neo Blaster]

that pop in in the video looks odd considering that whole ps5 IO/ssd speeds

Looks more like they've kept LOD management from PS4 version. Gotta see if that happens to MM.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Why do you care about proof so much, Your ordering an xbox without seeing any games running on it.

sorry, i could not help myself.

Haha, good one. I'll be playing old games anyway apparently

 

[PSX]

I really don;t understand the problem.

Spider-Man Miles Morales (PS4 & PS5) = New game, built cross-gen. Buy PS4 and you get the PS5 version included.
Spider-Man Remastered (PS5) = Old game, rebuilt for PS5 only. Buy it for ~$20 (via MM in game or bundled as part of MM ultimate) if you want or don't.
Spider-Man (PS4) = If you own this, you can still play it as it was sold to you on PS5.

What is the problem here? Developers have done work and are giving people the option to buy if they want. If you don't value that work then don't buy it.

My solution to people who is getting super complicated, when you get a PS5, buy the ultimate addition done. Things are not complicated people are

 

[Zoro7]

i think for sure you can have a 100% neutral starting point, i buy all system so i can have the best experience wherever that may be

i do wanna make one thing clear, only being able to afford one system or just preferring one system does not make you a loser... but if you are attacking people for not bowing to your system of choice then you are a loser

I have to disagree. Personal bias is always a thing regardless of how you swing it. Buying both systems doesn’t mean you don’t have a preference.


Calling others a loser but you’re on a forum trying to make yourself look better for being impartial. Hardly the coolest kid on the block are you.

 

[Dibils2k]

I really don;t understand the problem.

Spider-Man Miles Morales (PS4 & PS5) = New game, built cross-gen. Buy PS4 and you get the PS5 version included.
Spider-Man Remastered (PS5) = Old game, rebuilt for PS5 only. Buy it for ~$20 (via MM in game or bundled as part of MM ultimate) if you want or don't.
Spider-Man (PS4) = If you own this, you can still play it as it was sold to you on PS5.

What is the problem here? Developers have done work and are giving people the option to buy if they want. If you don't value that work then don't buy it.

i think the problem is, you cant just buy the Remastered version without Miles Morales

so if you want Remastered its not $20... its minimum $70

 

[T-Cake]

i think the problem is, you cant just buy the Remastered version without Miles Morales

so if you want Remastered its not $20... its minimum $70

At this point. But they did things like split the Uncharted trilogy up into individual titles for purchase. They will easily give you the option to buy Spider-man Remastered on its own when they've fleeced the early adopters for the Ultimate edition purchase.

 

[Riky]

Alright if he did say that it was because they had access they couldn't talk shit about gears then I reckon it's a bad point but do you reckon that this doesn't mean they aren't bias just that his explanation of why for this particular instance is wrong.
Next point of yours now you can't analyse games if they are cross gen ?And what would it says about the Series x ? Yeah nothing but do they analyse consoles or games ?Does the people wanting to play the next Halo on their pc can just go fuck themselves ?So this just mean that MS lied and Halo is not representative of what the game is.No matter if it is cross gen or not it didn't bothered them for Dirt 5.And for Halo pop in, textures, geometry, agressive VRS etc can't be analysed.

Do you really think that the only gameplay of a MS exclusive is not worth analysing in details ?That a video finding excuses (like the shadows and that MS paint representation) is what Digital Foundry should be about ?

And they need to see the final version of the game to know if there is raytracing , just like CGI expert can't analyse a trailer to know what kind of technique is used .....

Then there is the utmost stupid rethoric they said a good thing about sony so they're not biased .....Please refere to my child metaphor if you didn't understand it I can still dumb it down for you.


You still haven't answered about Richard downplaying Ps4 or lying about the capabilities of the Xbox one.

But sure pointing a thing they said were good about playstation is a better argument.

Here's your point :

He says it look good so he is not biased toward Xbox .... You may not know him but almost everybody here does and he is a joke.

I suggest you go back to the video and start at 23 minutes, it says it isn't about Xbox and Playstation. He goes on to say this is about trillion dollar companies and growing your channel, he goes on to say about blacklisting and losing access to the inside information. Go and watch it and listen yourself "it's not about being an Xbox guy" is the phrase used. THAT'S what I'm talking about and I've disproved it with TWO examples Crytek and Infinity Ward, you want to dumb things down, try knowing what you're defending first.

I didn't say they "can't analyse" cross Gen games at all another lie. I can't wait until they do and not for the fanboy nonsense but because I'm intrigued about how Series S and Xbox One X games compare, that stuff is going to be fascinating, probably more so than XSX Vs PS5.

Why would Halo PC owners have to "go fuck themselves" pixel counting PC games is a pointless exercise in itself, they will have control over settings console owners don't which is why DF don't pixel count PC games full stop. You might not like it because it hurts your narrative but the Halo Infinite we have seen was on PC and it's completely pointless pixel counting that, you must realise that surely?

Dirt 5 is Codemasters not Microsoft, they did an interview with Codemasters and he told them the resolutions and frame rates, what's the problem with this? They haven't analysed it they were told by a video interview.

As far as I know Spiderman, Ratchet and Demon Souls all have a quality and performance mode, maybe wait for the full game and I'm sure DF will then break it all down like they always do regardless of format.

They say a lot of "good" things about Sony, when you are doing a measurable analysis and from 2013 to 2017 one version was almost always better it would be folly to deny that, shall we get quotes from every comparison for that four year period?

The Xbox One analysis was probably before release of consoles? MS first party games did have 1080p games, I'm sure Forza 5 was 1080p at launch from what I remember.

Bringing what seem to be random fanboys into the discussion means nothing, do they work for DF? No? Irrelevant then.

I really do suggest you go back to the video 23 minutes and listen very carefully to what is said, the bit about it not being about Xbox and Playstation, that actually proves my point in itself.

 

[sircaw]

I think it would be extremely healthy for all of us if outlets like DF clearly declared what involvement they have with the video game companies they analyse. This would prevent the endless back and forth about who may or may not be biased towards one company or another, because it would indicate if the outlet is receiving benefits for the job that they are doing.

Personally, I think any critical or analytical outlet of any type should never accept free gifts, invitations or other perks from any company whose products they analyse and critique as part of their work. I'm afraid I do think the DF have greatly benefitted from a close relationship with Microsoft, and this has affected their objectivity.

Best post i have read in a long time, mind you that's not hard with the amount of rubbish i post on these forums.

That's my way of being nice but not to nice.

 

[Handy Fake]

Best post i have read in a long time, mind you that's not hard with the amount of rubbish i post on these forums.

That's my way of being nice but not to nice.

Double-edged swordfish.

 

[sircaw]

Double-edged swordfish.

SECOND BEST POST

 

[FunkMiller]

This whole thing about DF just feels too much like the general distrust in experts in other fields like science, its just a bit depressing and i am bored of it so I am going to stay out of it.

No. No, no, no. Not the same thing at all. In peer reviewed scientific research, all interests and sponsorships must be declared. And many scientists do not accept these kinds of relationships, precisely because they know the image it may give off.

And please don’t equate a bunch of amateur YouTube video games people with actual proper, trained scientists. It makes my teeth itch.

 

[Dibils2k]

I have to disagree. Personal bias is always a thing regardless of how you swing it. Buying both systems doesn’t mean you don’t have a preference.


Calling others a loser but you’re on a forum trying to make yourself look better for being impartial. Hardly the coolest kid on the block are you.

i think there is a crossing of terms here... to me "bias" is not same thing as "preference"

i agree everyone has preferences, but not bias.

to me having preference is fine as you can be like "yeah i know it looks better there but i prefer to play on Xbox because i like the controller or my mates are on there"

having bias is "this version is not worse! who cares about 2fps drops or 4k when 1440p looks just as good"

 

[Kingthrash]

I exactly did, went in with an open mind. I should've known better, because well these are youtube content creators, they tend to push a certain narrative for clicks. Which was actually the case.

TL;DR: It is clear why he made this video. He wants more clicks, and he wants the people watching the DF video's to watch his video's. I get that. But the way he tries to achieve this, is by exaggerating, taking things out of context, all of that to fit a narrative. On top of that, by far the worst part of it all, is that he might be pushing a person to end it all. Stirring old shit up, jumping on the DF bias bandwagon, all for his own "brand growth", knowing fully well what this does to him. Based on nothing, but his own interpretations. That's so fucking despicable. Kingthrash

Breakdown of every issue I had with each section.

Scripted Gears Ultimate remaster video
No proof at all, he just thinks and feels the coalition gave them a script, or the information to write such a script. Apparently when DF creates content they have to sound incoherent, and can't take the time to write something proper.

Gears 5
This is where I got annoyed, and decided to put more time into this than I wanted. DF used an interview they did with The Coalition as one of many sources to highlight new elements in the game.What is so wrong with this? If you had the possibility to interview ND, and they explain you how they did the animations when a character moves through the water, wouldn't you use this? To explain the watcher/listener how this works? I don't even get the problem here.

Then he get this old post from NeoGAF where he already broke his issues down, and DF even took the time to answer all these questions honestly here. What is exactly the problem with his answers? Apparently in that thread, not that many issues anymore after DF answered them, but of course he doesn't properly show that in the video, because that doesn't fit the narrative. He sums it up by saying, DF just has "excuses". DF even said we only had 3-4 days with Gears 5 while we had 2-3 weeks with Spider-Man. That's why the Spider-Man analysis was more extensive when it came to reflections and stuff like that. You work with the time you have. But again, we don't mention this, because well narrative...

Crackdown 3
No proof at all again, just his interpretation of the video that is different from DF's analysis. But no proof...

Demon Souls RT
Tries to make a case that DF deliberately didn't want to see Demon Souls RT, while knowing a lot about it. His case is that on the one had DF wants to see the final build of Demons Souls to spot RT and see the difference between performance/non-performance mode, and how they implemented RT. While a couple of months ago they said RT might solve some problems for Halo Infinite and went very deep into RT tech. What he fails to mention, is that these were two different people reviewing... I understand that you would want DF to have a similar output of views, but these are two different people, at different times, looking at a game from a different angle with a different goal of the video.

That whole part was just a rambling of personal interpretations, and the only argument he really has is that DF can't drop a ball on ANYTHING. Every video has to be completely analysed completely, every aspect has to be discussed, and if they forget just one thing, he hits on that. Saying there is pattern, when there really isn't any.

So you didn't pay attention huh.
They admit to getting information then writing scripts. As proven in the video.

Secondly he aint funna end it all as this video wasn't judging them. It was opening the eyes of gamers wondering why analysis from them for xbox hasn't had the same quality as Playstation

Crackdown
The man said it had quality in the destruction.....and they assume the destruction was done over the cloud when the destruction is proven prepared, as i proved in a previous video.

Demon Souls
I mentioned SEVERAL times that it wasn't the same dude, but also mentioned that they have the ability to communicate about that. If this guy didn't know how to count pixels or to catch raytracing then why didn't he ask someone who did? They do this all the time...

They literally blamed the covid as to why they arnt analyzing xbox games but somehow playstation is covid proof...
Everything I said I provided evidence, if that aint enough for you then DWYD...can make you wake up if you like to sleep.

 

[FunkMiller]

Best post i have read in a long time, mind you that's not hard with the amount of rubbish i post on these forums.

That's my way of being nice but not to nice.

Unfortunately it’ll probably never happen because human beings are fairly predictable, and everyone likes to have an inside ear, and get free stuff because it makes them feel good, and important.

But I will always take with a grain of salt any information I get from anyone who clearly has a vested interest in maintaining a good relationship with the producers of the products they are meant to be critiquing.

 

[sircaw]

This whole thing about DF just feels too much like the general distrust in experts in other fields like science, its just a bit depressing and i am bored of it so I am going to stay out of it.

This is a daft comparison lol, this is not the same thing haha.

 

[Gediminas]

So you didn't pay attention huh.
They admit to getting information then writing scripts. As proven in the video.

Secondly he aint funna end it all as this video wasn't judging them. It was opening the eyes of gamers wondering why analysis from them for xbox hasn't had the same quality as Playstation

Crackdown
The man said it had quality in the destruction.....and they assume the destruction was done over the cloud when the destruction is proven prepared, as i proved in a previous video.

Demon Souls
I mentioned SEVERAL times that it wasn't the same dude, but also mentioned that they have the ability to communicate about that. If this guy didn't know how to count pixels or to catch raytracing then why didn't he ask someone who did? They do this all the time...

They literally blamed the covid as to why they arnt analyzing xbox games but somehow playstation is covid proof...
Everything I said I provided evidence, if that aint enough for you then DWYD...can make you wake up if you like to sleep.

he is blind fanboy. evidence is shining from the mile away, but he and others like to ignore and pretend that is not an evidence.

it is like a killer standing over dead body with knife and blood on his hands, everyone knows he did it, but xbox fan would say : but did you really saw him do it? maybe he tried to help him and took that knife out of his chest 15 times?

 

[Bojanglez]

At this point. But they did things like split the Uncharted trilogy up into individual titles for purchase. They will easily give you the option to buy Spider-man Remastered on its own when they've fleeced the early adopters for the Ultimate edition purchase.

Yeah I expect them to do this. Also maybe gives them another PS+ title for PS5 a year down the line.

 

[Angel of BOOM!]

That picture of Spidey hanging on the window looks impressive at first glance, but there's something off about the way he reflects. The fingers don't align (look at his left thumb ie.), it seems. Also the reflections of his feet looks "off" compared to his actual feet.

Add to that the low resolution of the reflection, and it's painfully obvious that compromises had to be made.

Game development, like lots of things, is all about compromise...

 

[Handy Fake]

Game development, like lots of things, is all about compromise...

Plus, you're not meant to be looking at a static image really. This is all moving.

 

[Zoro7]

Game development, like lots of things, is all about compromise...

Sounds like my sex life.