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[Thirty7ven]

Realistically, how is Microsoft expected to compete with Sony next generation? Can they?

I was away doing stuff until recently, but just a few friends I have in the industry working on games for both platforms and a few other insiders I know. More than one source. The basic gist of what I've heard is the PS5 is really good to work on for games exclusive to it, but in practice the...

www.resetera.com

Could there be any truth to this

Dusk has like third/fourth hand info. By the time info reaches him it’s already highly adulterated. On top of it there are clear bias at play here.

Struggles with 1080p 60fps?
PS5 will be more expensive than XSX?
Games will perform a lot better on XSX?

Just use the analytical part of your brain. On top of that Matt already called him out so.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I don't know if the timed exclusive rumors are real or not. But one big thing with timed exclusivity is that you need to compensate the studio for expected lost sales on the competing platform.

With Xbox "not caring if you buy a Series X or not", this is basically open declaration that Series X sales could be so low, Sony could ask for launch exclusivity, while paying far LESS for the privilege.

Or in other words, by Xbox abandoning the idea of console sales mattering, they also lowered the price Sony needed to pay to get timed exclusivity. While at the same time, massively increase the costs for Xbox to retaliate.

Sony just might have bought timed exclusivity of titles that were once too expensive this gen, but was made affordable due to Xbox's decision to go all in Gamepass.

Every action has consequences. Xbox might not realize what their decision are leading them.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Dusk has like third/fourth hand info. By the time info reaches him it’s already highly adulterated. On top of it there are clear bias at play here.

Struggles with 1080p 60fps?
PS5 will be more expensive than XSX?
Games will perform a lot better on XSX?

Just use the analytical part of your brain. On top of that Matt already called him out so.

Yeah, I was trying to be fair by not accusing him of spreading FUD but

 

[Red_Driver85]

What is the source?

Closed information. I threw it here because I thought it must to be interesting, but this is a real developer and this is his little analysis after the reports of Guerrilla Games and viewing the PC version of HZD by himself. Everything is at your conversation. I'm not savvy enough to know what's going on here. He also said that the port will only be cured of bugs, but nothing will change globally.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Did anyone read this before? it was published almost at the same time the demo was revealed.

Employee Spotlight: Ani Shastry

Ani Shastry shares how his love for stars, science fiction and pixels led him to work for his all-time favorite game franchise.

www.343industries.com

Now I don't know what to believe. I guess the employee wasn't really informed about what they were going to show.

Holy cow, they must be really fighting the engine.

 

[hemo memo]

Struggles with 1080p 60fps?
PS5 will be more expensive than XSX?
Games will perform a lot better on XSX?

1- That’s stupid and NO
2- Probably
3- It’ll vary by game and definitely not by “A lot”

 

[Neo Blaster]

Jesus one 'insider' guy (but not really) tweeted 750 mil figure and everyone treats it like God's Word from Holy Bible. I get this is speculation thread and everyone wants to run wild with what they are given but geeeeez at least just speculate on third party games without getting that figure involved as if it is officially confirmed or something.

We are starved for info and gossip.

 

[geordiemp]

Closed information. I threw it here because I thought it must to be interesting, but this is a real developer and this is his little analysis after the reports of Guerrilla Games and viewing the PC version of HZD by himself. Everything is at your conversation. I'm not savvy enough to know what's going on here. He also said that the port will only be cured of bugs, but nothing will change globally.

Video of it here, time stamped.



Sometimes direct apis and low level procedures just dont copy well to abstraction used in windows and Xbox,.

Not everything is about terraflops, direct apis and efficiency says a big HELLO.

Ps5 new Geometry engine has more procedural generation in GPU in Cernys road to ps5....

 

[Neo Blaster]

Not going into any other details as most wouldnt believe it anyhow.

 

[geordiemp]

Not going into any other details as most wouldnt believe it anyhow.



Yes

Tease

 

[oldergamer]

Video of it here, time stamped.



Sometimes direct apis and low level procedures just dont copy well to abstraction used in windows and Xbox,.

Not everything is about terraflops, direct apis and efficiency says a big HELLO.

Ps5 new Geometry engine has more procedural generation in GPU in Cernys road to ps5....

not sure why people talk about the geometry engine like its something unique? XSX has the same functionality.

 

[DForce]

Dusk has like third/fourth hand info. By the time info reaches him it’s already highly adulterated. On top of it there are clear bias at play here.

Struggles with 1080p 60fps?
PS5 will be more expensive than XSX?
Games will perform a lot better on XSX?

Just use the analytical part of your brain. On top of that Matt already called him out so.

I bet it's going to be all over twitter by the Xbox community later today while ignoring Matt's comment altogether.

 

[Insane Metal]

Not going into any other details as most wouldnt believe it anyhow.



Yes

 

[JonnyMP3]

not sure why people talk about the geometry engine like its something unique? XSX has the same functionality.

Because the Geometry Engine talked about in the PS5 is baked into the GPU.
So unless Microsoft announce that they have that custom unit in the CU that does the same job as literally letting the GPU generate primitive shaders with data pulled straight from the SSD and bypassing the RAM altogether... The XSX doesn't perform the same, even if it could function the same.

 

[geordiemp]

not sure why people talk about the geometry engine like its something unique? XSX has the same functionality.

No.. Cerny has patents on the way they do VRS and mesh shading is different.

MS will probably do mesh shaders and VRS as standard AMD RDNA2 for PC and similar to Nvidia for DX12 across all platforms.

Ps5 will do what Cerny and Sony first party studios require and deem gives best performance and will be custom.

Games like HZD and Dreams use GPGPU - expect more, and it does not translate well to PC - see 2080ti running HZD.

I expect Ps5 and Dx12 to divert even more next gen....and I am happy to bet on which will perform better

 

[sircaw]

Because the Geometry Engine talked about in the PS5 is baked into the GPU.
So unless Microsoft announce that they have that custom unit in the CU that does the same job as literally letting the GPU generate primitive shaders with data pulled straight from the SSD and bypassing the RAM altogether... The XSX doesn't perform the same, even if it could function the same.

You sound really smart sometimes. Dammit.

 

[sircaw]

Cerny has patents on the way they do VRS and mesh shading is different.

MS will probably do mesh shaders and VRS as per Nvidia for DX12 across all platforms.

Ps5 will do what Cerny and Sony first party studios require and deem gives best performance and will be custom.

Games like HZD and Dreams use GPGPU - expect more, and it does not translate well to PC - see 2080ti running HZD.

I expect Ps5 and Dx12 to divert even more next gen....and I am happy to bet on which will perform better

then you have Geordie and I feel like confused.com.

 

[Gediminas]

Dusk has like third/fourth hand info. By the time info reaches him it’s already highly adulterated. On top of it there are clear bias at play here.

Struggles with 1080p 60fps?
PS5 will be more expensive than XSX?
Games will perform a lot better on XSX?

Just use the analytical part of your brain. On top of that Matt already called him out so.

straight up fud.
struggles to perform 1080p60fps? how much he is out of touch.

 

[geordiemp]

You sound really smart sometimes. Dammit.

We will get it through to you eventually

 

[MasterCornholio]

Dusk has like third/fourth hand info. By the time info reaches him it’s already highly adulterated. On top of it there are clear bias at play here.

Struggles with 1080p 60fps?
PS5 will be more expensive than XSX?
Games will perform a lot better on XSX?

Just use the analytical part of your brain. On top of that Matt already called him out so.

Uh oh makes me think he's just making up those Silent Hill rumors to get peoples hopes up.

 

[mejin]

I bet it's going to be all over twitter by the Xbox community later today while ignoring Matt's comment altogether.

of course. this the fun thing about a new gen...the lies and promises are crushed by reality later. haha

 

[JonnyMP3]

You sound really smart sometimes. Dammit.

I still love you

But as the Chief Engineer of the PS5 Express Hype Train and Head of Express Hype VIP, it's my duty to be the Cerny acolyte that comes with such responsibilities!



And I paid a lot of attention to the Road to PS5 GDC to try and understand what our God, Mark had to enlighten us with... A lot of clever custom stuff to help developers and not to go 'Here's power!'

 

[Moridianae]

Some folks seem want to call Sony on supposed flip sides of this coin, such as if to compensate for lack of first-party software for a while.

I don't think so. They've shown plenty of hitters and haven't even shown every studio who currently has projects in development for PS5.

It is a given TLOU2 will have a PS5 version, probably with the multiplayer being revealed alongside it. Ghosts of Tsushima will have an update or version also. God of War 2 will at least be teased, plus there are rumors of SOCOM making a return.

They have a lot of first-party software heading in.

This seems like a case of Sony knowing they have market dominance and leveraging that against said market who seems leery about the Gamepass ecosystem.

And here's the thing....I base this, as I've said before, on my own experience in retail regarding gaming.

If Sony lands something like Call of Duty, even timed, that is a *massive* blow to Xbox.

The "gamers"(because they only ever play like two things) who flocked to my store only for Call of Duty or Madden every year will majority go PlayStation instantly. They will not wait in any form for the exclusivity to end.

 

[Neo Blaster]

By truth I mean with regards to third party titles struggling to hit 60fps at 1080p on PS5

It contradicts every game with res/fps announced so far for both and every comment about how close the two systems are, so no.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I would hope Sony money hatted Rockstar to have GTA with VR support. It will already have first person, so it's just a matter of adaptation. Much better than literally wasting money on timed exclusives, from a player's perspective.

But that's just it, player perspective. Sony and MS are not doing that to please their userbase, who would play the game anyway if it was multiplat. They do that to increase userbase.

 

[Rudius]

But that's just it, player perspective. Sony and MS are not doing that to please their userbase, who would play the game anyway if it was multiplat. They do that to increase userbase.

It would greatly accelerate VR adoption, one of PS5's advantages over Series X.

 

[Neo Blaster]

But the new sony's console break balls to all of PS5 to PC ports. Any direct port of the main title from the console will require too many resources.

This part is interesting...

 

[Neo Blaster]

Tease

Someone could put 'PS user' on those two little girls, 'Xbox user' on the older one and 'Sony secret exclusivity deal' on the ice cream.

 

[zaitsu]

This part is interesting...

It was easy to predict judging how PS5 architecture deviate from XSX/PC one.

 

[MasterCornholio]

This part is interesting...

I read somewhere that in order to make up for the PS5s I/O you would have to have alot more ram in a PC to make up for the slower SSDs.

That's all that I can think of. Maybe the GE as well but I'm not sure how crazy that is yet plus the TE could add to that as well.

 

[geordiemp]

This part is interesting...

Link ? where is that from ? My Guess B3d ?

 

[Neo Blaster]

I read somewhere that in order to make up for the PS5s I/O you would have to have alot more ram in a PC to make up for the slower SSDs.

That's all that I can think of. Maybe the GE as well but I'm not sure how crazy that is yet plus the TE could add to that as well.

Not just the SSD, hardware decompression block which frees CPU processing time and all custom silicon Sony built to mitigate bottlenecks .

 

[MasterCornholio]

Not just the SSD, hardware decompression block which frees CPU processing time and all custom silicon Sony built to mitigate bottlenecks .

My guess is that when Microsoft designed their system they have to take into account PCs as well. Which is probably why it's easier to get an XSX game ported over to PC (in to sharing the same API as Windows). With Sony they don't care about PC that much so they are not worried about his difficult it is to get PS5 games running on that platform.

Just my guess.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Uh oh makes me think he's just making up those Silent Hill rumors to get peoples hopes up.

I’m not saying HE is bias. But the info clearly went from mouth to mouth and got changed along the way.

The closest sources he has are Capcom related and even then they tend to change a lot.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

not sure why people talk about the geometry engine like its something unique? XSX has the same functionality.

It has a geometry engine for sure, but not as robust as Sony. I've been already calling it for a while, but I guarantee Sony's geometry engine is capable of foveated rendering.

 

[geordiemp]

It has a geometry engine for sure, but not as robust as Sony. I've been already calling it for a while, but I guarantee Sony's geometry engine is capable of foveated rendering.

Well Cernys patent is clear on Foveated rendering and their special VRS, it is just not confirmed for ps5 yet. But most likely yes

 

[Mr Moose]

I bet it's going to be all over twitter by the Xbox community later today while ignoring Matt's comment altogether.

Checks out with Sony trying to moneyhat everything in existence to ensure Digital Foundry can't compare multiplats.

LMAO, some people...

 

[hemo memo]

My guess is that when Microsoft designed their system they have to take into account PCs as well. Which is probably why it's easier to get an XSX game ported over to PC (in to sharing the same API as Windows). With Sony they don't care about PC that much so they are not worried about his difficult it is to get PS5 games running on that platform.

Just my guess.

Exactly. Especially now with how Microsoft want to put everything on Gamepass for PC.

 

[Thirty7ven]

LMAO, some people...

Didn’t take long for the more desperate folks to try that narrative.

Sounds dumb, which is typical.

 

[saintjules]

Not exactly PS5 related, but rather a nice trip down PS1 memory lane.

 

[thelastword]

Man, 750M, sony could buy so many great IPs that are abandoned or revive some of their own IPS that they are doing nothing with, instead, they'll just throw it all away. Poor moves are gonna poor.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Sony made bank this gen and are still raking in with two big successes recently in TLOU 2 and Tsushima. Their PSN numbers have grown YOY and their PSNOW and VR services are profitable........What they are doing is investing this money to ensure that PS5 is even more successful and sells even more than PS4...

If people are buying PS5 because of GTA, COD, Silent Hill, MGS, it means these are new persons entering the PS ecosystem because they can't get these games or that content elsewhere, timed or fully exclusive......These same players where lots of them maybe casual for GTA and COD will expand sales of Sony first party software because it's the system they have now, they will look into "what's all these Sony Goty games and hype about" when they take a break from COD etc.... and boom, the demographics for PS first party is expanded resulting in more sales on top of very impressive sales this gen...

Rest easy that PS first party games are being well funded, new IP's are being well funded. There's enough money where that 750 mil came from and that 750 mil is an investment to grow the PS base more than anything, expand the installbase to new heights. Later in the gen Sony will not have to spend any money because devs will put forward exclusives on the system by default due to the extremely large player base. It's what has happened in Japan for decades, Sony just wants to expand that to the US and Europe as well.....

 

[JonnyMP3]

It has a geometry engine for sure, but not as robust as Sony. I've been already calling it for a while, but I guarantee Sony's geometry engine is capable of foveated rendering.

This is an angle that I haven't even thought about yet since I sold my PSVR due to lack of use, but I did like the thing.

If Sony's interest in VR remains strong, then having a VR directive in the hardware isn't a stretch. And considering that the PSVR sold millions and more at the forefront of VR adoption than Oculus and Vive, it would make sense for them to have ideas on how to make it work better in synergy. And if we're still using a split 1080p display headset, then the PS5 has more than enough GPU power to render much more and further than before but the main aim is the 'Complete Immersive World' that doesn't need any load screens still to transition the stage because of RAM dump and swap.
Simply put... PSVR2 is going to be filled with HUGE WORLDS TO EXPLORE WITH ABSOLUTELY NO LOADING!
Why didn't I think about this???

 

[saintjules]

I'm ready!

 

[MasterCornholio]

I’m not saying HE is bias. But the info clearly went from mouth to mouth and got changed along the way.

The closest sources he has are Capcom related and even then they tend to change a lot.

I can believe that some developers might have some issues with the hardware but I don't believe the PS5 is a 1080P 30FPs box.

I think for whatever reason these developers are having some sort of issue. Either they are inexperienced and don't know how to fix the problem or their game is so complicated that the console can't handle it at 1080P 60P. I've seen some very complex games run at 4K 30FPs on the system so I doubt it isn't capable of running similar games at 1080P 30FPs.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Exactly. Especially now with how Microsoft want to put everything on Gamepass for PC.

Each has their advantages. I'm not saying what Microsoft is doing is bad but they have other customers to worry about. Sony just needs to focus on their console owners.

We all saw how they treated he PC version of HZD.

 

[T-Cake]

It doesn't make any sense though. The toolchain for the PS4 was supposedly the best ever on a console system, the PS5 would only build on that. The "Time to Triangle" thing that Mark Cerny uses as a measure of ease-of-development is less than the PS4.

The only thing I can think of is that some are going beserk with the ray tracing?

confused.com

 

[sircaw]

Checks out with Sony trying to moneyhat everything in existence to ensure Digital Foundry can't compare multiplats.

Who the heck said this Mr Moose , tell me, I thought I said some dumb shit at times but this makes me feel like bloody Einstien.

Give me a name, I want to add him to my friend's list, so I can feel good about myself.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

This is an angle that I haven't even thought about yet since I sold my PSVR due to lack of use, but I did like the thing.

If Sony's interest in VR remains strong, then having a VR directive in the hardware isn't a stretch. And considering that the PSVR sold millions and more at the forefront of VR adoption than Oculus and Vive, it would make sense for them to have ideas on how to make it work better in synergy. And if we're still using a split 1080p display headset, then the PS5 has more than enough GPU power to render much more and further than before but the main aim is the 'Complete Immersive World' that doesn't need any load screens still to transition the stage because of RAM dump and swap.
Simply put... PSVR2 is going to be filled with HUGE WORLDS TO EXPLORE WITH ABSOLUTELY NO LOADING!
Why didn't I think about this???

When you look at the PS5 hardware, everything starts to make sense as it relates to VR. I'd even bet the PSVR2 headset will also contain the same haptic feedback tech as the PS5 controller.

 

[yewles1]

That is so uncalled for.

I have been super good the last few weeks, spreading love, friendship, and above all tolerance.

+ I don't believe in shit posting, everything I add to this forum is constructive, well thought out and full of love.

Now suck my ........No, must resist, must be good.

Aww, poor Angel Fish struggling to answer only to the Humpback upstairs.

 

[geordiemp]

Checks out with Sony trying to moneyhat everything in existence to ensure Digital Foundry can't compare multiplats.

Who the heck said this Mr Moose , tell me, I thought I said some dumb shit at times but this makes me feel like bloody Einstien.

Give me a name, I want to add him to my friend's list, so I can feel good about myself.