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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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I'd say 15-20% without a thorough explanation is under estimating
That's the TFs difference, but without knowing what are the gains for higher clock on RDNA2, for example, we can't assume how much will compensate for the 40% difference in CUs, Idem for smartshift.
I think that looking at a merely GPU hardware wise SeX has the edge and it's fine, I don't think it will be that big at all outside of RT.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
I'd say 15-20% without a thorough explanation is under estimating
That makes no sense at all IMHO. If it was fill-rate, then I would agree on the limited info, but Flops have no bearing on why every AMD card gets owned by Nvidia in the same bracket. With limited info of only knowing two things are in the same tier, fill-rate is usually the decider, and with a raised clock, PS5 is much closer than 20% to the XsX on that metric unless the picture of the XsX chip isn't representative.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
He was invited by fucking Atari to work there when was 17 and still in school. This motherfucker is around almost since the start of the industry, he is behind the production and consultation of a lot of Sony exclusives. That man is serious business.

He's been even referring to ray tracing in gaming before it's being a thing, listen:




Watched it all, what a genius this man is. I remember listening to some of it one time but knew jack shit about what he's talking about so didn't watch it all.

Sony is in great hands with such passionate, knowledgeable, veteran gamer first and foremost. And for people who think that audio doesn't take any GPU power:

 
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farmerboy

Member
He's been even referring to ray tracing in gaming before it's being a thing, listen:



Watched it all, what a genius this man is. I remember listening to some of it one time but knew jack shit about what he's talking about so didn't watch it all.

Sony is in great hand with such passionate, knowledgeable, veteran gamer first and foremost. And for people who think that audio doesn't take any GPU power:



Preach. I think it's dangerous to write off the PS5 and Cerny at this stage when we haven't even seen the games.

36 CU, high variable clocks, were part of the design from the get go, (Although I concede that maybe 36CU is basically about small cheap APU) and thus are all there for a good reason.

Everything we've seen so far is well thought out and customized. We know that even the pad is a major revision with haptic. My bet is we are still going to see some surprises on the gpu, most probably around RT.

Cant wait to see the full reveal and games.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
Preach. I think it's dangerous to write off the PS5 and Cerny at this stage when we haven't even seen the games.

36 CU, high variable clocks, were part of the design from the get go, (Although I concede that maybe 36CU is basically about small cheap APU) and thus are all there for a good reason.

Everything we've seen so far is well thought out and customized. We know that even the pad is a major revision with haptic. My bet is we are still going to see some surprises on the gpu, most probably around RT.

Cant wait to see the full reveal and games.
Some days back people were speculating on the ROPs for the XsX, but I don’t recall anyone comparing the small 36CUs of the Pro and the – presumably to scale – much larger PS5 36CUs from the slide in Cerny’s talk, so we can make speculation about the ROPs count for the PS5. According to an old Pro vs One X DF article the Pro has 64 ROPs (One X 32 ROPs), and a clock of 911Mhz. But the article states the Pro ROPs just couldn’t be feed by memory bandwidth, so maybe a comparison of 911Mhz to 2230Mhz clocks and a slide that makes the illustration of the PS5’s 36CUs look 2-2.5 times bigger in area than the Pro 36CUs – with no way of knowing if scale difference normalizes for 16nm to 7nm lithographies.

Would it be possible for PS5 to have 128ROPs and feed them at that clock speed?
 

SonGoku

Member
This is good and bad, Nintendo works in a similar way few AAA but with much more AA games the problem with is the scope for some users the games
could be disappointed. They will still need at least one AAA game per year with a couple of AA I know is not much but is the minimum.

So that AAA will games like halo,gears,forza, hellblade, also from Initiatie studio which is working in AAA.

But I don't see it bad in general I am actually more worried about how Xbox studios will threat a bad game in sales and critic which will happen soon or later, my fear is they go to extremes:

1.-Close the studio reducing the options in the future
2.-Ignore the problem and start to have some generic/bad titles which devalue the brand
An important point of contention is that while lower budget (AA) nintendo games use simplistic visuals and scope they deliver on all the other aspects making a quality end product
The alternative approach of blowing all your (limited) budget on visuals and scope can lead to a mediocre game where the devs vision isn't fully realized or very short length.

It'd be preferable if these small teams focused on games of limited scope (think cuphead) or simplistic visuals (rime) to deliver a well rounded quality game rather than try to emulate AAA experiences with insufficient funding.
 
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PocoJoe

Banned
I stumbled up to this interesting picture, 46k people have answered this question on some french youtube channel. ( no idea which channel is it or is it biased to one or another, but numbers sound realistic and comparable of stuff I have seen about sony vs ms before)

I guess that Xsex powah aint sexy enough to appeal Europeans. Saw similar share of votes at Finnish gaming magazine query too.

On US this would be closer "battle" I think. Just to show how dominant PlayStation can be on many places, and being faster wont cut it.

pQwgwf4Sv4t7Ie1JW7omyS9F2obUbxS_DPFSnkb_g0AKdKsCLWIyMnko4bZzKrhS50V7M1ebODw78YXeflo7zvY80GFyzpO_nklFns4wzZlha8SSYbkS5iB6WWYunG6LFSLsncDgsEH5KHRcXA3BThfC9_hJyVBVyZ0L2JiZqB7Y5ZahsF46-hIFaGGq1ePVjnQWhA6cQcKa6v2cCHUEsHZupzplscHujwUrGourqxe3ulZORPuTlmhQyqkanyWEN_TfBoIjUHZyR9-aE03wzs_Zt9IbQMt0IeUBEQEsJ5wcCrElEso0UI5MsH0VHNbAQu_3lexBVWgt5OeK1Mc5ednbuDfyauIW6f6BQ44F3wOkMPziF9m85Ifg2xA9J1WAUY4aNyhbU-wwb8jMKjl5ubZF4ZKHQhHf11hA14fAa6slJwEf59Kn5EXc5UlYxFA3SuT4Bb1K4aG5_vXoi19xYnxKr6qdyu8CyyMyCMFcBQjdKc54rMFGgf2pj3A5Q13si5NtpciqCwmLp8troneNzfL3msSGtbLLjA8fruzwa5IoJyNYJuou3g1koZbe7jN1R8Ra-gKHP2GrC1KrN98SP5gfZsFCrgZQWlIIeDVkDLjndq1cUW2Q5acXzg53LZlXM_QvzMwSXXZhqOJ10MgCW3kFWRITlFHxJ1Qvvz0Kkc69QxOSgRwO4ICRjvMh1n3oU16vNwV_R71GIYnNSPSMmS13Hjsf0Q_81uAiMpnCjzwappHX5_6tTA=w883-h432-no


I saw some people comparing PS5 ssd to xbox one esram.

Like wtf, they are completely different cases. Funny how far some people are fetching to prove that anything PS5 offers is poop.

If fast SSD on PS5 would be a weird/bad thing like esram, then logically xsex ssd would be 2x worse as it is slower.

ESRAM was used because ddr3 were too slow, so kind of "fix a leak with a tape" situation.

If anybody thinks that SSD (of PS5) is some kind of bad engineering or is used to "fix" something that is too slow, they must be joking or nuts.

esram tried to fix slow ram, ssd just makes things fast and removes all/most of limits of hdd. Dunno how some can even twist their mind to compare them :messenger_grimmacing_

I guess many people still live in psychosis and think that "if ps5 ssd is faster, that can only mean that bad bad ps5 fanboys think it is faster console than xsex, not possible! RRREEEEEEEEEEEE"

This is IGN, more american site I guess

le7p71bnnap41.jpg
 
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ph33rknot

Banned
I stumbled up to this interesting picture, 46k people have answered this question on some french youtube channel. ( no idea which channel is it or is it biased to one or another, but numbers sound realistic and comparable of stuff I have seen about sony vs ms before)

I guess that Xsex powah aint sexy enough to appeal Europeans. Saw similar share of votes at Finnish gaming magazine query too.

On US this would be closer "battle" I think. Just to show how dominant PlayStation can be on many places, and being faster wont cut it.

pQwgwf4Sv4t7Ie1JW7omyS9F2obUbxS_DPFSnkb_g0AKdKsCLWIyMnko4bZzKrhS50V7M1ebODw78YXeflo7zvY80GFyzpO_nklFns4wzZlha8SSYbkS5iB6WWYunG6LFSLsncDgsEH5KHRcXA3BThfC9_hJyVBVyZ0L2JiZqB7Y5ZahsF46-hIFaGGq1ePVjnQWhA6cQcKa6v2cCHUEsHZupzplscHujwUrGourqxe3ulZORPuTlmhQyqkanyWEN_TfBoIjUHZyR9-aE03wzs_Zt9IbQMt0IeUBEQEsJ5wcCrElEso0UI5MsH0VHNbAQu_3lexBVWgt5OeK1Mc5ednbuDfyauIW6f6BQ44F3wOkMPziF9m85Ifg2xA9J1WAUY4aNyhbU-wwb8jMKjl5ubZF4ZKHQhHf11hA14fAa6slJwEf59Kn5EXc5UlYxFA3SuT4Bb1K4aG5_vXoi19xYnxKr6qdyu8CyyMyCMFcBQjdKc54rMFGgf2pj3A5Q13si5NtpciqCwmLp8troneNzfL3msSGtbLLjA8fruzwa5IoJyNYJuou3g1koZbe7jN1R8Ra-gKHP2GrC1KrN98SP5gfZsFCrgZQWlIIeDVkDLjndq1cUW2Q5acXzg53LZlXM_QvzMwSXXZhqOJ10MgCW3kFWRITlFHxJ1Qvvz0Kkc69QxOSgRwO4ICRjvMh1n3oU16vNwV_R71GIYnNSPSMmS13Hjsf0Q_81uAiMpnCjzwappHX5_6tTA=w883-h432-no


I saw some people comparing PS5 ssd to xbox one esram.

Like wtf, they are completely different cases. Funny how far some people are fetching to prove that anything PS5 offers is poop.

If fast SSD on PS5 would be a weird/bad thing like esram, then logically xsex ssd would be 2x worse as it is slower.

ESRAM was used because ddr3 were too slow, so kind of "fix a leak with a tape" situation.

If anybody thinks that SSD (of PS5) is some kind of bad engineering or is used to "fix" something that is too slow, they must be joking or nuts.

esram tried to fix slow ram, ssd just makes things fast and removes all/most of limits of hdd. Dunno how some can even twist their mind to compare them :messenger_grimmacing_

I guess many people still live in psychosis and think that "if ps5 ssd is faster, that can only mean that bad bad ps5 fanboys think it is faster console than xsex, not possible! RRREEEEEEEEEEEE"

This is IGN, more american site I guess

le7p71bnnap41.jpg
Ok 9
 
So, what about this one :

The GPU has reduced the “time-to-triangle” from PS4’s 1-2 months to less than a month.

hzfkumY.jpg


Can we expect faster game development or making bigger games for less amount of time?

The SSDs should allow for far less last-minute streaming/memory management optimization.

So yes, development will be faster, or more focused on things that actually make a better game rather than trying to bandaid around limitations.
 

Dargor

Member
So, what about this one :

The GPU has reduced the “time-to-triangle” from PS4’s 1-2 months to less than a month.

hzfkumY.jpg


Can we expect faster game development or making bigger games for less amount of time?

Games will be bigger in general or more detailed by virtue of it being a new gen, with new possibilities, so I would say that, hopefully, it will "just" keep the costs of making games around the same amount we had this gen and this in turn will make developers not need to increase monetization by alot, reducing the need for more microtransactions and other types of gouging models.
 
"No developers say they will not program for the special things in the Playstation... DICE is going to... DICE said they will." "... the third party games are gonna use the Playstation 5 to its best ability."

"All my sources are third party devs."

"It's not about the loading times."

Timestamped.

 
Here at 11:00 up to 30:00 is the real deal:




Dev say that the Tempest Engine can be used as a backup processing unit if they don't wanna go deep in 3D audio. This is getting serious!

Well I don't buy it since Cerny explained how that chip is completely ALU like and they removed on die caches to make it process sounds. That use case sounds too specific to be used otherwise even it resembles a CPU, it is missing L1 L2 caches, branch prediction and all kinds of things I don't probably even know. It is purpose built, so most likely it operates within that purpose and nothing else.

This could be as big as FP16 for Pro! Now Devs can access a memory pool that is 100x slower than the ram!
Look I get snide comments and cynical approaches and all that console warring and FUD stuff

BUT

FP16 is a real thing as much as INT8 and INT4 are. They just weren't used all that much in the past, but if Nvidia has thought u something it is that they can do AI training and steadily perfect DLSS with those special operations. Machine learning is a thing that will run you over like a train if you are completely unaware of like you seem to be. FP16 can and will be used for particle systems in VFX and post processing, and I have a creeping suspicion that they will be extremely important in the part of ray tracing operations, so maybe it wasn't big for Pro as it was advertised but now it can be be-all-end-all for next gen systems including SeX and from your attitude that might comfort you enough to back off from making stupid snide remarks.
 

B_Boss

Member
Developers say XSEX SSD cannot be used as a virtual RAM the way it is used in the PS5 SSD. Those custom chips and I/O tweaks to remove all bottlenecks that Cerny did is not present in the XSEX.

Timestamped.



With much of the technical facts released and discussion here (and a bit elsewhere) that bit of thinking (if true) doesn’t surprise me in the least 🍻.
 
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rnlval

Member
Some days back people were speculating on the ROPs for the XsX, but I don’t recall anyone comparing the small 36CUs of the Pro and the – presumably to scale – much larger PS5 36CUs from the slide in Cerny’s talk, so we can make speculation about the ROPs count for the PS5. According to an old Pro vs One X DF article the Pro has 64 ROPs (One X 32 ROPs), and a clock of 911Mhz. But the article states the Pro ROPs just couldn’t be feed by memory bandwidth, so maybe a comparison of 911Mhz to 2230Mhz clocks and a slide that makes the illustration of the PS5’s 36CUs look 2-2.5 times bigger in area than the Pro 36CUs – with no way of knowing if scale difference normalizes for 16nm to 7nm lithographies.

Would it be possible for PS5 to have 128ROPs and feed them at that clock speed?
X1X's 32 ROPS is linked with 2MB render cache and has up to 326 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Remember this lecture?

5GjjCI2.jpg



DCC (Delta Color Compression) not factored in.

XSX GPU's 32 ROPS at 1172 Mhz
RGBA8: 1172 * 32 * 4 = 150 GB/s (ROPS bound)
RGBA16F: 1172 * 32 * 8 = 300 GB/s (BW bound)
RGBA32F: 1172 * 32 * 16 = 600 GB/s (BW bound)

For ROPS bound situation, TMUs can be used as a workaround.

PS4 Pro runs into memory bandwidth bottleneck earlier than X1X.

NAVI 10 with 36 CU still has 64 ROPS with higher clock speed and L1 cache/4MB L2 cache links.
 

rnlval

Member
That makes no sense at all IMHO. If it was fill-rate, then I would agree on the limited info, but Flops have no bearing on why every AMD card gets owned by Nvidia in the same bracket. With limited info of only knowing two things are in the same tier, fill-rate is usually the decider, and with a raised clock, PS5 is much closer than 20% to the XsX on that metric unless the picture of the XsX chip isn't representative.

The memory bandwidth gap between XSX and PS5 increases with higher CPU usage

Scenario 1: Near GPU only memory access with maximum CPU-to-GPU fusion link usage and maximum respect CPU cache boundaries programming tricks

XSX GPU has 25% memory bandwidth advantage over PS5 GPU.

----

Scenario 2: Zen 2 CPU consumes 40 GB/s memory bandwidth which exceeds PS4 CPU's 20 GB/s memory access IO

Equivalent to PC CPU with 128 bit DDR3-2600

XSX GPU: 520 GB/s

XSX CPU: 40 GB/s

VS

PS5 GPU: 408 GB/s <---- below RX 5700 XT's 448 GB/s reference.

PS5 CPU: 40 GB/s

XSX GPU has 27.45% memory bandwidth advantage over PS5 GPU.

----

Scenario 3: Zen 2 CPU consumes 60 GB/s memory bandwidth which exceeds PS4 CPU's 20 GB/s memory access IO

Equivalent to PC CPU with 128 bit DDR4-3800

XSX GPU: 500 GB/s

XSX CPU: 60 GB/s

VS

PS5 GPU: 388 GB/s <---- below RX 5700 XT's 448 GB/s reference.

PS5 CPU: 60 GB/s

XSX GPU has 28.86% memory bandwidth advantage over PS5 GPU.

----

Scenario 4: Zen 2 CPU consumes 80 GB/s memory bandwidth which exceeds PS4 CPU's 20 GB/s memory access IO

Equivalent to PC CPU with 128 bit DDR4-5000 e.g. Corsair’s Vengeance LPX DDR4 5,000 MHz kit (pair of 8GB modules)

XSX GPU: 480 GB/s

XSX CPU: 80 GB/s

VS

PS5 GPU: 368 GB/s <---- below RX 5700 XT's 448 GB/s reference.

PS5 CPU: 80 GB/s

XSX GPU has 30.4% memory bandwidth advantage over PS5 GPU.


Only XSX can brute force like gaming PC with similar CPU and GPU specs.

Both X1X's and PS4 Pro's Jaguar CPUs have less compute intensity when compared to a proper desktop PC CPU which is included in both XSX and PS5.
 
This could be as big as FP16 for Pro! Now Devs can access a memory pool that is 100x slower than the ram!
And now to respond to your second sentence which is also patently wrong, 5.5GB/s raw data is fast enough to fill streaming asset portion of a game that is generally taking up 2-2.5GB; which means it will fill in half a second, and that is within parameter of what Cerny said in his presentation -> 'a second of streaming cushion instead of 30 seconds' meaning that the GDDR6 on the system will be used much much more efficiently.

There is no reason to think SSD needs to fill the entire GDDR bank and try to come up with long durations or high latencies, game developers aren't stupid and also they haven't been using the system ram just for streaming in the past anyway and therefore won't do that even now with these blazingly fast speeds. They know what they are doing and your snide remarks just irritates fanboys, cause unnecessary discussions and create fodder for console wars. There is no need for any of that. Both consoles went with 16GB simply because it will be enough to continually feed them with the SSDs and still remove any streaming hitches, texture pops and indistinguishable LOD changes (which were the bane of last gen for consoles in general) while doing this. Sony went with more I/O customization to remove bottlenecks, so they might do stuff other than removing streaming hitches and texture pops and instant LOD changes.
 

Neo_game

Member
The memory bandwidth gap between XSX and PS5 increases with higher CPU usage

Scenario 1: Near GPU only memory access with maximum CPU-to-GPU fusion link usage and maximum respect CPU cache boundaries programming tricks

XSX GPU has 25% memory bandwidth advantage over PS5 GPU.

----

Scenario 2: Zen 2 CPU consumes 40 GB/s memory bandwidth which exceeds PS4 CPU's 20 GB/s memory access IO

Equivalent to PC CPU with 128 bit DDR3-2600

XSX GPU: 520 GB/s

XSX CPU: 40 GB/s

VS

PS5 GPU: 408 GB/s <---- below RX 5700 XT's 448 GB/s reference.

PS5 CPU: 40 GB/s

XSX GPU has 27.45% memory bandwidth advantage over PS5 GPU.

----

Scenario 3: Zen 2 CPU consumes 60 GB/s memory bandwidth which exceeds PS4 CPU's 20 GB/s memory access IO

Equivalent to PC CPU with 128 bit DDR4-3800

XSX GPU: 500 GB/s

XSX CPU: 60 GB/s

VS

PS5 GPU: 388 GB/s <---- below RX 5700 XT's 448 GB/s reference.

PS5 CPU: 60 GB/s

XSX GPU has 28.86% memory bandwidth advantage over PS5 GPU.

----

Scenario 4: Zen 2 CPU consumes 80 GB/s memory bandwidth which exceeds PS4 CPU's 20 GB/s memory access IO

Equivalent to PC CPU with 128 bit DDR4-5000 e.g. Corsair’s Vengeance LPX DDR4 5,000 MHz kit (pair of 8GB modules)

XSX GPU: 480 GB/s

XSX CPU: 80 GB/s

VS

PS5 GPU: 368 GB/s <---- below RX 5700 XT's 448 GB/s reference.

PS5 CPU: 80 GB/s

XSX GPU has 30.4% memory bandwidth advantage over PS5 GPU.


Only XSX can brute force like gaming PC with similar CPU and GPU specs.

Both X1X's and PS4 Pro's Jaguar CPUs have less compute intensity when compared to a proper desktop PC CPU which is included in both XSX and PS5.

You are forgetting that PS5 16gb runs at 448 gb/sec. Xbox gfx will access to 10gb at 560 gb/sec. Although Xbox has 25% advantage for those 10gb which gfx will use. The reaming 6gb PS5 has 34% advantage as its other 6gb is at 336gb/sec. Not sure why are you splitting the BW into parts ? PS5 does not need to.
 

rnlval

Member
You are forgetting that PS5 16gb runs at 448 gb/sec. Xbox gfx will access to 10gb at 560 gb/sec. Although Xbox has 25% advantage for those 10gb which gfx will use. The reaming 6gb PS5 has 34% advantage as its other 6gb is at 336gb/sec. Not sure why are you splitting the BW into parts ? PS5 does not need to.
1. 2.5 GB of XSX's 6GB is allocated towards low BW intensity OS.

2. CPU has a lower BW intensity when compared to the GPU.

XSX CPU has ~937 GFLOPS at 3.66 Ghz with SMT or ~973 GFLOPS at 3.8 Ghz with no-SMT vs GPU with 12,147 GFLOPS. The CPU : GPU ratio is 1 : 12.96 to 1 : 12.48 .

PS5 CPU has ~896 GFLOPS at 3.5 Ghz (variable) with SMT vs GPU with 10,280 GFLOPS (variable). The CPU : GPU ratio is 1 : 11.473

CPU is not a GPU.
 

Neo_game

Member
1. 2.5 GB of XSX's 6GB is allocated towards low BW intensity OS.

2. CPU has a lower BW intensity when compared to the GPU.

XSX CPU has ~937 GFLOPS at 3.66 Ghz with SMT or ~973 GFLOPS at 3.8 Ghz with no-SMT vs GPU with 12,147 GFLOPS. The CPU : GPU ratio is 1 : 12.96 to 1 : 12.48 .

PS5 CPU has ~896 GFLOPS at 3.5 Ghz (variable) with SMT vs GPU with 10,280 GFLOPS (variable). The CPU : GPU ratio is 1 : 11.473

CPU is not a GPU.

If games uses 10gb of ram for gfx then Xbox has 25% BW advantage. Nothing more than what you wrote in one of your previous post.
 
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Chun Swae

Banned
Here at 11:00 up to 30:00 is the real deal:




Dev say that the Tempest Engine can be used as a backup processing unit if they don't wanna go deep in 3D audio. This is getting serious!

I’ve been saying this for days but it’s been falling on deaf ears. Cerny himself said in road to PS5 that the Tempest engine could be used for non audio computation. So this isn’t some hidden gpu secret sauce like the previous gens, but an actual thing that can happen.
 

Tqaulity

Member
Ok guys. Had some time to let everything process a bit and yes Microsoft has built a beast of a console. However, I wouldn't count Sony out in any away. Sure, their PR and marketing is sucking royally right now but in terms of their design goals and their overall performance I don't think the difference is as big as it may seem on paper (looking at TFLOP ratings and such). In fact, I think it's possible that the raw performance difference may be <10% or even <5%!! Here how:

There is a lot that we don't know yet about both consoles, but let's review what we do know in terms of GPU performance. First, we know that both are RNDA 2.0 GPUs, which brings a certain amount of efficiency improvements over RNDA 1.0 that we do not know yet. But for the sake of this comparison let's keep it apples to apples and use RDNA 1.0 as a reference (whatever the RDNA 2.0 improvements are will be moot since both consoles should see the same benefits).

For the Xbox Series X, it's pretty straightforward. Looking at the RX 5700 XT Anniversary Edition (overclocked), we see an RDNA 1.0 GPU that is almost exactly 10TFLOPs based on the max boost clock. We know that Xbox Series X GPU is 12 TFLOPs which is exactly a +20% increase in the amount of raw compute power. So we could extrapolate that if the Xbox Series X was just an RDNA 1.0 card, then it would roughly be +20% higher performance than an RX 5700 XT AE. Looking at the relative performance chart below of actual game benchmarks, let's figure that the RX 5700 XT AE is ~15% higher than the RX 5700 (+2% for the AE overclock). Then adding an additional 20% will put the XBSX at 135% above the RX 5700 which will put it right in between the RTX 2070 Super and RTX 2080 at 4K.

Now, for the PS5 Sony took a different approach. We know that the actual GPU config in terms of core count, memory bus width, memory bandwidth etc is exactly a match for a base RX 5700 GPU. However, Sony just went ahead and overclocked the hell out of it. In fact, the 2.23 Ghz GPU clock speed is roughly a +30% increase in the clock speed alone (and thus the raw TFLOP rating). So adding +30% to the RX 5700 performance gets us to 130% which is right above the RTX 2070 Super in the chart below.

Now, this is NOT a comparison of absolute performance so whatever source you look at and whatever benchmark is used doesn't really matter. The point is looking at the relative performance in real world games between the RX 5700 (PS5 config) and RX 5700 XT AE (XBSX is +20%) tells the story. We end up with relative performance of 130% (PS5) and 135% (XBSX) which is only a delta of 5%!! Again both consoles should be even further beyond a RX 5700 than what this comparison says given the RDNA 2.0 architecture but the relative delta between the 2 should remain.

Now before you guys go crazy, keep in mind the following:
  1. Yes, I already pointed out that this comparison is assuming both GPUs are RNDA 1.0 which they are not. For the sake of an apples to apples comparison, the assumption of RDNA 1.0 makes the delta easy to see since we can base it on actual real world hardware today and the RDNA 2.0 benefits will effectively cancel out since both console will see it
  2. It is safe to assume that the RDNA 2.0 efficiency gains will put the effective performance above what I just computed above. We don't know how much more perf/clock we can expect in RDNA 2.0 but it will likely be between 10-20%. That would theoretically put PS5 GPU at RTX 2080 perf at 4K and the XBSX perf at RTX 2080 Super level perf at 4K (at least)
  3. This comparison really is a baseline as the actual system performance should be higher. This doesn't take into account the optimizations in the GPUs and throughout the systems, console specific optimizations, SDK/driver efficiency, throughput improvements, memory differences etc.
  4. This also doesn't take into account the clock speed vs core count differences. Sony claims that the PS5 GPU should be more efficient, easier to utilize, and faster at the non-compute aspects in the GPU given the higher clock speed. We shall see what impact this may have
The real takeaway here is that:
A) The GPU differences in actual game performance may not be as pronounced as it seems when just looking at TFLOPs and theoretical hardware numbers and
B) while XBSX has a beast of a GPU, the PS5 GPU is no slouch and not too far behind (if at all). It just achieves it's performance in a different way.

Now I'm just anxious and excited to start seeing some games and seeing how all of these advancements will change the games we play :)

relative-performance_3840-2160.png
 

longdi

Banned
Sony will be fine as long as PS5 is $399. It doesnt matter what Phil can do at that msrp.

Otherwise, any higher or unable to undercut MS msrp, Mark Sony may have to spend the entire gen spinning up why he delievered an underpowered console without an underpowered price.
 
An important point of contention is that while lower budget (AA) nintendo games use simplistic visuals and scope they deliver on all the other aspects making a quality end product
The alternative approach of blowing all your (limited) budget on visuals and scope can lead to a mediocre game where the devs vision isn't fully realized or very short length.

It'd be preferable if these small teams focused on games of limited scope (think cuphead) or simplistic visuals (rime) to deliver a well rounded quality game rather than try to emulate AAA experiences with insufficient funding.
holy shit u came wtf what happened
 
Some days back people were speculating on the ROPs for the XsX, but I don’t recall anyone comparing the small 36CUs of the Pro and the – presumably to scale – much larger PS5 36CUs from the slide in Cerny’s talk, so we can make speculation about the ROPs count for the PS5. According to an old Pro vs One X DF article the Pro has 64 ROPs (One X 32 ROPs), and a clock of 911Mhz. But the article states the Pro ROPs just couldn’t be feed by memory bandwidth, so maybe a comparison of 911Mhz to 2230Mhz clocks and a slide that makes the illustration of the PS5’s 36CUs look 2-2.5 times bigger in area than the Pro 36CUs – with no way of knowing if scale difference normalizes for 16nm to 7nm lithographies.

Would it be possible for PS5 to have 128ROPs and feed them at that clock speed?
That article was incorrect and really should no be used as an source for anything about Rops and Bandwidth on PS5.
 

Magik85

Member
“Noticeably more blurry”. I watched this video on my 60” 4K TV and barely saw a difference between 1X and Pro while sitting like 6-7 feet away Lol. If I could barely notice a difference, what do you think is going to happen to Johnny Public when he tries to see the difference between XSX and 5, which is performance wise, smaller than Pro and 1X? Come on man.
Interesting.
Perhaps its time for you to visit oculist and pick good glasses?
Dont take me wrong, i mean no disrespect.
Its a genuine concern because i see a very noticable difference even on smartphone. To not see it on 60" screen doesnt bode well..
 

FranXico

Member
Gamepass is bread for today and hunger for tomorrow, now they will put all the meat on the grill, to win diners and progressively everything will be based on quantity to the detriment of quality, seasoned from time to time with something of quality, why spend 200 million if with 20, I already have your 9 euros a month, they want to be Netflix and just like Netflix we will have to remove trash until we find something decent.
That's any subscription service in a nutshell. But I agree that eventually, quality will suffer.
 

Vae_Victis

Banned
I have a quick question about the Spider-Man demo why was Spider-Man no actually shown rendered he is probably the most graphically intense thing on the screen
Because the demo was meant to show the difference in data stream speed, not rendering capabilities. Spiderman is 100% of the time on screen and loaded in either case, so his presence or absence wouldn't mean anything anyway for the purpose of the demo.

Also, the swinging animations created for the base game would not work/match with the camera moving through the city several orders of magnitude faster, and they probably didn't want to put work on it just for a 2 minute closed-doors demo.
 
Sony will be fine as long as PS5 is $399. It doesnt matter what Phil can do at that msrp.

Otherwise, any higher or unable to undercut MS msrp, Mark Sony may have to spend the entire gen spinning up why he delievered an underpowered console without an underpowered price.

The PS5 will be at least $450, which Series X will match.

The PS5's crazy SSD that allows things not possible on the most expensive PCs, highly custom GPU with exotic cooling = a state of the art piece of kit that will carry a premium price.

They can justify price matching Series X with actual excusive games, whereas Series X at $450 will seem like an expensive luxury as you can play all its games on your old XB1.
 
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longdi

Banned
The PS5 will be at least $450, which Series X will match.

The PS5's crazy SSD that allows things not possible on the most expensive PCs, highly custom GPU with exotic cooling = a state of the art piece of kit that will carry a premium price.

They can justify price matching Series X with actual excusive games, whereas Series X at $450 will seem like an expensive luxury as you can play all its games on your old XB1.

Nope the mid grade gpu in PS5 makes it non premium.

Also Sony ssd will probably be less than 0.9gb usable for games because SSD needs to provision extra space to perform. With the OS, idk maybe you can only use 90% of it for games. :messenger_astonished:
 
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