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[Murtrod]

I like this list so far. I very much like it.

 

[Uthred]

No. Just... no. That simply isn't true. In terms of what the list was -- PC RPGs -- it was incredibly diverse, covering a massive swath of subgenres and, most importantly, a huge range of years. It wasn't basically a list of, "well, here's what I happen to have played in the last 24 months", which a large chunk of the GAF list reads like.

Yes. Just...yes. That simply is true. You seem confused as to what I was saying, which is surprising as it was hardly ambiguous. But to break it down even further. My first point was that "I've played a lot of genre X" isnt a ringing endorsement of how well you understand X, nor how well you can evaluate it. As an example I cited the RPGCodex list which is as revealing of its voters inherent bias as the GAF list is (which was referring to my initial point which you didnt quote) and no more objectively useful. Finally I suggested that how "good" people found these lists was based on how closely it matched their tastes. A suggestion that your response has arguably proved.

As for covering a "massive swath" (or swathe if you prefer) of subgenres and a "huge range of years" comparing the top ten of each list the GAF list covers both a longer time period and arguably more subgenres.

I love games like Fire Emblem: Awakening for what they are. But they don't deserve even an honorable mention on the list of best RPGs of all time; Fire Emblem fans will tell you themselves that it is far from the best game in its own franchise. It's clear that this is a list by people who haven't played very many RPGs. Which is OK! It's interesting to see. But again, in no way can you make any kind of equivalence between the two lists. One is by people who play a metric fuckload of RPGs; the other is essentially a poll to see what a group of moderate general gaming enthusiasts thinks about the genre.

To be honest the level of effortless condescension in this paragraph barely merits response. Though it’s indicative of the poor attitude among fans of the genre that was mentioned a few page back. It can never be that people simply have a different opinion, of course not, it’s because they’ve compiled an implicitly "lesser" list because they simply lack the experience and "haven't played very many RPGs." A statement proved patently false looking at several of the posters contributing in this thread. But at least you condescendingly allowed them to have their opinion as some kind of cute oddity "Which is OK! It's interesting to see".

Of course you can compare the lists because they are ultimately the same, top x lists of a particular genre culled from their respective forums based on said members opinions. The fact you place greater weight on one rather than the other is a result of your own bias, based on the shaky supposition that playing a lot of a genre imbues you with the critical faculties to accurately assess it and the false supposition that members of one forum have played more of a certain genre than members of the other.

I suppose, finally, in the interests of semantics, it’s not a best rpgs of all time (and that title alone is ridiculously broad as people are unlikely to agree on the criteria about what constitutes best). It’s a list of rpg's that the voters felt were essential to have played. Again essential is more or less as broad a best, are they essential because you need to have played them to appreciate the genre? Because they have unique mechanics? Simply because they’re fun games? All and none of the above. Though the idea that even if this was a simply populist list it would offer less utility is amusingly misguided. If the goal of either list was to offer an avenue to familiarity with the genre then it behoves the neophyte to familiarise themselves with populist entries in the genre, just as it would in any genre study. The ersatz elitism surrounding these lists, dressed in pseudo-objective drag, is immensely tiresome.

 

[Raggie]

Very well put, Uthred.

The RPGCodex list is by and for extremely hardcore and long-time fans of computer RPGs. This list is by and for Gaffers, which is a different thing entirely. How useful would the list by Codex be for the general gaming public? How many gamers who would righ now pick up Planescape: Torment and the first Fallout for the first time actually enjoy them? My personal favorite is Baldur's Gate II, but the fact is that someone who didn't play PC RPGs in the 90's is far more likely to enjoy Persona 4.

 

[Shengar]

Most of those people though have, as we all do, pretty huge biases. You can see it it any of the larger CRPG discussion threads. At the end of the day "I've played a lot of X" isn't a particularly sound endorsement of how well one understands X just how much they like it

I agree that playing X amount of games itself isn't enough to warrant one's understanding on particular genre. While playing a lot of games within a genre more likely to broaden your view on it, it isn't enough for curation. Critical approach (I think I got the wrong term but you got the idea, hopefully) is very important to dissect and built an argument why certain games must be played on top of others. Like you said Uthred, it's too much of an academic rigor. Even then, curator that went through of their list with such process will still have their own biases, which is for me ideally need to be addressed by them.

 

[Arulan]

I'm not really sure where to post this, but I thought it was interesting.

Brent Knowles Interview: An Insider's Look at BioWare, 2000-2009

 

[decoyplatypus]

I'm not really sure where to post this, but I thought it was interesting.

Brent Knowles Interview: An Insider's Look at BioWare, 2000-2009

It's a bit of a frustrating interview because the interviewer's primary objective (amusingly plain in every question) is to fill in the blanks in a (probably true) story RPG fans have been telling about Bioware, and the subject is unable, possibly unwilling, to help.

That said, I enjoyed this part:

Baldur's Gate 2 was an amazing game. Its puzzle-like encounter design, its rich assortment of magical items that were so much more than just plusses and minuses, and its epic mage duels are all unparalleled to this day. 14 years later, people still talk about character builds and party compositions, and share strategies on how to defeat iconic foes like the Twisted Rune, Firkraag, and Kangaxx. No other game has ever been as successful in delivering that essence of high level Dungeons & Dragons gameplay. What we'd like to know is - who was responsible? Who pushed for this stuff? And how did he (or they) manage to do such an incredible job?

James Ohlen and Kevin Martens… the lead and co-lead respectively, had a huge influence on this. They were very focused on the high-level details and spent a lot of time testing the content everybody was creating.

BG2, like HOTU, was also a fun project to work on. BG2 had a functional game engine (as opposed to an engine-in-development) and (many of) the designers were more experienced with it, so they knew what worked and what to avoid. Even brand new designers like myself were given areas to "flesh out". We were able to take characters from our old pen and paper campaigns and create little plots for them and it was very creative and organic. And certainly we made a mess of things at times, some of the plots, especially the Drow ones were horribly complicated and hard to troubleshoot!

But all of us were given semi-free reign to take things as far as we thought we could. I had a lot of fun working with the combat system, for example, and tried to pull in all the tricks I remember that had been used while playing pen and paper during high school. And all the team members were doing this, within their own areas of responsibilities.

As well, because the game content did not have to be locked down too early (for voice over and cinematics), we actually had more development time. With AAA titles nowadays, it becomes harder to tweak content in the late stages of development.

 

[fred]

No Morrowind..? (

That game was fantastic. Am also surprised to see New Vegas higher than Fallout 3 too.

 

[Kurtofan]

The ranking isn't finished yet.

 

[theprodigy]

would a "no limit" vote work next time? I'm thinking that would put more weight on RPG veterans vs those who just play a few

example:
Someone like Durante for example ranks 100 games and places Planescape Torment as his #1, his vote for PT would be worth 100 points, meanwhile, I've only played 10 rpgs and PT is also my #1, yet since I've played only a few my PT vote is worth 10 points only.

I'm not sure it would work but I think it's nice that those who are experienced in the genre will have more influence in deciding the rankings, while those of us who play less can still contribute. Just a thought.

Or maybe you can do the ranking by console gen?
So you have the best snes rpgs by rank, best rpgs on ps2 era by rank, etc

you can't be serious, everyone would just put a bunch of filler crap to prop up their actual choices

 

[kswiston]

Sorry for the large delay in posting results. I have been extremely busy with work, and was unable to make time last weekend.

#31-40 are up now. I don't have summaries for Dragon's Dogma or Super Mario RPG. Anyone interested in providing a 80-125 word write up to either of those?

I have 10 more banners to make (#41-50). After that I will post the full results for the top 100+ games. I hope to be able to do that within the next week.

Thanks for being patient.

 

[Jamix012]

Sorry for the large delay in posting results. I have been extremely busy with work, and was unable to make time last weekend.

#31-40 are up now. I don't have summaries for Dragon's Dogma or Super Mario RPG. Anyone interested in providing a 80-125 word write up to either of those?

I have 10 more banners to make (#41-50). After that I will post the full results for the top 100+ games. I hope to be able to do that within the next week.

Thanks for being patient.

Thank you so much for putting all your hard work into this. It looks great and has given me some ideas on my next purchase.

 

[Karsticles]

Sorry for the large delay in posting results. I have been extremely busy with work, and was unable to make time last weekend.

#31-40 are up now. I don't have summaries for Dragon's Dogma or Super Mario RPG. Anyone interested in providing a 80-125 word write up to either of those?

I have 10 more banners to make (#41-50). After that I will post the full results for the top 100+ games. I hope to be able to do that within the next week.

Thanks for being patient.

No need to apologize. You rock for doing this. These lists are a huge part of why I got a Vita.

 

[Notorious_Roy]

Sorry for the large delay in posting results. I have been extremely busy with work, and was unable to make time last weekend.

#31-40 are up now. I don't have summaries for Dragon's Dogma or Super Mario RPG. Anyone interested in providing a 80-125 word write up to either of those?

I have 10 more banners to make (#41-50). After that I will post the full results for the top 100+ games. I hope to be able to do that within the next week.

Thanks for being patient.

Take your time. It's a great list and I use it every year to pick a game for my personal 'Summer of rpg's'. It helps me prioritize my backlog and find new games to put on the backlog.

 

[zero shift]

Mother 3 deserves to be higher. Much higher.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Mother 3 deserves to be higher. Much higher.

If they had released it in the West it might have had ranked higher, but this way not many people have played it.
Not sure if it deserves a higher ranking, though, I haven't played it myself.

 

[j0hnny_385]

A huge congrats to kswiston and others for the beautiful OP. One of my favorite threads on GAF. *bow*

 

[Usobuko]

I agree that playing X amount of games itself isn't enough to warrant one's understanding on particular genre. While playing a lot of games within a genre more likely to broaden your view on it, it isn't enough for curation. Critical approach (I think I got the wrong term but you got the idea, hopefully) is very important to dissect and built an argument why certain games must be played on top of others. Like you said Uthred, it's too much of an academic rigor. Even then, curator that went through of their list with such process will still have their own biases, which is for me ideally need to be addressed by them.

I, too, would like people to not hide behind the inherent value of their subjective opinion for anyone who criticise their positions. But I won't think any less of them if they persist, I will just not be persuaded by what they say.

In that sense, I love Uthred posts on this page.

 

[zero shift]

Is anyone planning to take over kswiston's position after this year, or will these yearly threads die off?

 

[Kurtofan]

Wow crazy jump for Deus Ex HR. Not my favorite game but I can see the appeal, I like the atmosphere of the game.

 

[Dresden]

Is anyone planning to take over kswiston's position after this year, or will these yearly threads die off?

I don't think it was yearly. Maybe a few years down the line when someone else wants to do the work.

 

[Shengar]

My try on Dragon's Dogma summary. I apologize for any grammatical mistakes.

Dragon's Dogma released by Capcom as their answer to the popularit of Open-world RPG . Gransys, while not really as vast and as big as any other open-world game of its era, is compensated by more carefully and uniquely designed dungeon to explore. Exploration isn't the main attraction however, since Dragon's Dogma brightest gem is its (stylish) action gameplay. Climb a big monster and strike their weakness up close, or execute flashy skills to bring them down to their knees, Dragon's Dogma offered as many as possible with its gameplay that would keep players entertained for countless of hours. As for the role-playing aspect, Dragon's Dogma also triumph in that regard. For a console RPG, it have a simple yet effective and vast character customization which enable players to create avatar of their liking without difficulties but unique and distinct at the same time. Coupled with the Pawn System where the party consisted with player-created characters that obtainable via online or pre-created one by Capcom, Dragon's Dogma offered numerous role-playing experience. The story isn't Dragon's Dogma strong point, but it's serviceable and actually get better after the faux-ending in which the atmosphere is very heavy and tense. Dragon's Dogma latest and only expansion, the Dark Arisen adds one, vast dungeon to the game: The Bitterblack Isles, which is the home of many dangerous monsters and powerful equipments that doesn't even exist in Gransys. Less of an open-world, and more of a dungeon crawling so to speak, Dark Arisen addition of new monsters not only adding the challenge but also room for gameplay experimentation. With a story that is better by its content and how it's told, Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen isn't only a must-play expansion, but rather the definitive edition of the game.

 

[Thores]

I don't think it was yearly. Maybe a few years down the line when someone else wants to do the work.

It was annual with the exception of 2013/2014, when kswiston took a break because he had a baby.

I think bi-annual is actually a good idea for the future though! It gives time for the demographic to change, plus we're getting a buttload of new contenders this year. We'll need another year just to play them all.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I don't think it was yearly. Maybe a few years down the line when someone else wants to do the work.

And it is ALOT of work.

 

[Dresden]

Ah, I see.

Hope Mass Effect 4 and Fallout 4 are out by then.

And it is ALOT of work.

Yeah. Personal preferences shouldn't downplay the work he put into the thread. I'm definitely a bit guilty of this.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Sorry for the large delay in posting results. I have been extremely busy with work, and was unable to make time last weekend.

#31-40 are up now. I don't have summaries for Dragon's Dogma or Super Mario RPG. Anyone interested in providing a 80-125 word write up to either of those?

This work?

Super Mario RPG - Join Mario, Peach, Bowser, and two new characters - the marshmallow, Mallow and the living doll, Geno - on an epic quest to save the Star Road. A collaboration between Nintendo & Squaresoft, Super Mario RPG features prerendered 3D visuals like the Donkey Kong Country games and music from Yoko Shimomura (Street Fighter 2). Combat is turn-based but in keeping with the Mario theme, SMRPG is one of the first noteworthy RPGs where timed button presses can be used to enhance the power of your abilities.

And thanks for all your work!

 

[JimPanzer]

:O no vagrant story and tactics ogre on the list up to now? what have you done gaf?!

 

[Thores]

:O no vagrant story and tactics ogre on the list up to now? what have you done gaf?!

Dunno about Vagrant Story; Tactics Ogre is in the Top 100 but not the Top 50. I'm bummed about it too. :[

 

[decoyplatypus]

The TO drop surprises me given that the game just had a well-received remake. Vagrant Story is more of a cult favorite and depends on its partisans showing up in force. This year they didn't.

I wonder if Matsuno's functional retirement/exile from the traditional console RPG space has hurt his games in the rankings. Newer RPG players might be less likely to seek out TO and VS if they haven't already discovered Matsuno through a big new release.

 

[leroidys]

:O no vagrant story and tactics ogre on the list up to now? what have you done gaf?!

Damn. Knew I was forgetting something

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

The TO drop surprises me given that the game just had a well-received remake. Vagrant Story is more of a cult favorite and depends on its partisans showing up in force. This year they didn't.

I wonder if Matsuno's functional retirement/exile from the traditional console RPG space has hurt his games in the rankings. Newer RPG players might be less likely to seek out TO and VS if they haven't already discovered Matsuno through a big new release.

I showed up!

But yeah, much of what he is famous for (an auteur and master at both brilliantly complex mechanics and mature cinematic narrative) are not really in full majestic flower together, hand-in-hand in his recently released or rereleased works. It's a sorry world.

 

[kswiston]

My try on Dragon's Dogma summary. I apologize for any grammatical mistakes.

Thanks! I hope you don't mind that I made some substantial edits to keep the size of your summary in line with the other games posted so far.

This work?

That's great, Thank you.



Thanks to everyone for the positive words. I am hoping to get the last batch of the Top 50 up this weekend. After that, I will post the rest of the Top 100 in some manner, add in the results sorted by points, and look into reviving those soundtrack and gameplay links (especially if a few people are willing to help contribute to gathering links.


Those asking about Matsuno games, both Vagrant Story and Tactics Ogre received 14 points this time around. The Top 50 cutoff was 30 points.

 

[leroidys]

Mother 3 deserves to be higher. Much higher.

It's probably the best game on the list IMHO, but I can't be mad at it's placement considering it was never released outside of Japan.

 

[Shengar]

Thanks! I hope you don't mind that I made some substantial edits to keep the size of your summary in line with the other games posted so far.

Yep, no problem. I thought it was too long too lol

 

[Deleted member 471617]

NICE!!! Chrono Trigger is number one...woohoo!!!!

On a related side note -

It's probably just me but am I the only one that doesn't consider Mass Effect, Fallout, Deus Ex, etc. to be RPG's? I consider them either third or first person shooters with RPG elements. I see so many people list these games (and other similar type games) as RPG's and I remember back to the SNES/GEN/PS eras and im like, hell no. Not the same thing whatsoever.

Sorry if this derails this topic as that's not what im trying to do. Just thinking what's considered an RPG now compared to back then just drives me nuts. UGH.

 

[kswiston]

NICE!!! Chrono Trigger is number one...woohoo!!!!

On a related side note -

It's probably just me but am I the only one that doesn't consider Mass Effect, Fallout, Deus Ex, etc. to be RPG's? I consider them either third or first person shooters with RPG elements. I see so many people list these games (and other similar type games) as RPG's and I remember back to the SNES/GEN/PS eras and im like, hell no. Not the same thing whatsoever.

Sorry if this derails this topic as that's not what im trying to do. Just thinking what's considered an RPG now compared to back then just drives me nuts. UGH.

Some of it is probably the fact that Western CRPGs have a longer more varied history of mixing real time action into their roleplaying games. JRPGs have the Ys series and a few others, but the majority of elder JRPG series were menu driven, turn-based affairs (largely due to the lack of buttons on the NES/SNES, and memory restrictions). You have turn-based stuff on PC too of course, but there was still a lot of real time games (or real time with pause) back in the eras you mention.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Nocturne got robbed

 

[ViewtifulJC]

NICE!!! Chrono Trigger is number one...woohoo!!!!

On a related side note -

It's probably just me but am I the only one that doesn't consider Mass Effect, Fallout, Deus Ex, etc. to be RPG's? I consider them either third or first person shooters with RPG elements. I see so many people list these games (and other similar type games) as RPG's and I remember back to the SNES/GEN/PS eras and im like, hell no. Not the same thing whatsoever.

Sorry if this derails this topic as that's not what im trying to do. Just thinking what's considered an RPG now compared to back then just drives me nuts. UGH.

Yeah Cuz this list needed to be more JRPG 90s console heavy

 

[impact]

Nocturne got robbed

What is that? Some Persona spinoff?

 

[ricki42]

It's probably just me but am I the only one that doesn't consider Mass Effect, Fallout, Deus Ex, etc. to be RPG's? I consider them either third or first person shooters with RPG elements. I see so many people list these games (and other similar type games) as RPG's and I remember back to the SNES/GEN/PS eras and im like, hell no. Not the same thing whatsoever.

Sorry if this derails this topic as that's not what im trying to do. Just thinking what's considered an RPG now compared to back then just drives me nuts. UGH.

If by SNES/GEN/PS era you mean Final Fantasy circa 6-9 and similar, then I would say that when it comes to actually role-playing, something like Mass Effect is actually more of an RPG. I sometimes wonder why some jrpgs are even called RPGs. They took the mechanics (the dice rolling to attack) from PnP RPGs, but not the actual role-playing. You can't make any decisions, you can't customize or build your character, you often can't decide who will be in your party.
Of course, if by SNES/GEN/PS era you include PC RPGs during that era, then I agree, something like Baldur's Gate is more RPG than say Mass Effect 3.
And I haven't played the first Fallout, but I don't think it fits in your list.

 

[ilium]

On a related side note -

It's probably just me but am I the only one that doesn't consider Mass Effect, Fallout, Deus Ex, etc. to be RPG's? I consider them either third or first person shooters with RPG elements. I see so many people list these games (and other similar type games) as RPG's and I remember back to the SNES/GEN/PS eras and im like, hell no. Not the same thing whatsoever.

Sorry if this derails this topic as that's not what im trying to do. Just thinking what's considered an RPG now compared to back then just drives me nuts. UGH.

Sorry, but no. The first jRPGs borrowed heavily from the first cRPGs, which were basically emulations of Pen & Paper games, which academically speaking are RPGs in the truest sense. Due to technological restrictions it was and is rather difficult to really emulate a P&P experience. (Vampire the Masquerade Redemption did that actually, but you still needed someone playing the dungeon master.)
What the jRPG developers did back in the day was taking the stat systems, classes, settings, gave them their own touch and streamlined it. Since P&P games weren't really popular in Japan they simply didn't really know where cRPG developers were coming from and what they were trying to achieve. I guess this is why the whole choose and shape your own adventure system you see in current wRPGs never really got incorporated into jRPGs.

Now if you argue that games like Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect are no "true" RPGs i would argue that jRPGs are actually no "true" RPGs.

Per definition a Role Playing Game is a game where "players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development. Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines."

As you can see, decision making and character development are integral parts of the role playing experience, something that is often missing in jRPGs.
If you are arguing that jRPGs are RPGs because you "play a role" in those games, then every single videogame that lets you control an avatar is a role playing game.

But of course I consider both jRPGs and wRPGs as true RPGs. Some are just closer to their P&P heritage than others.

 

[dude]

I used to be a pain in the as purist in regard to the term "RPG", because I'm a very heavy P&P player, and I played them before I knew anything of video game RPGs. But I've come to understand RPG in video games these days is just a term to describe a certain type of logistics-based gameplay.
I basically think it's easier to adopt a more welcoming definition of RPG just to avoid endless semantic arguments.

 

[Mengy]

I'm surprised Skies of Arcadia isn't on the list. It's one of my favorite RPG's of all time, in fact I rank it right up there with Chrono Trigger personally.


Otherwise, good list!

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Sorry, but no. The first jRPGs borrowed heavily from the first cRPGs, which were basically emulations of Pen & Paper games, which academically speaking are RPGs in the truest sense. Due to technological restrictions it was and is rather difficult to really emulate a P&P experience. (Vampire the Masquerade Redemption did that actually, but you still needed someone playing the dungeon master.)
What the jRPG developers did back in the day was taking the stat systems, classes, settings, gave them their own touch and streamlined it. Since P&P games weren't really popular in Japan they simply didn't really know where cRPG developers were coming from and what they were trying to achieve. I guess this is why the whole choose and shape your own adventure system you see in current wRPGs never really got incorporated into jRPGs.

Now if you argue that games like Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect are no "true" RPGs i would argue that jRPGs are actually no "true" RPGs.

Per definition a Role Playing Game is a game where "players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development. Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines."

As you can see, decision making and character development are integral parts of the role playing experience, something that is often missing in jRPGs.
If you are arguing that jRPGs are RPGs because you "play a role" in those games, then every single videogame that lets you control an avatar is a role playing game.

But of course I consider both jRPGs and wRPGs as true RPGs. Some are just closer to their P&P heritage than others.

It's somewhat the reason why I think Dark Souls is closer to the ideal of what a RPG should be than Mass Effect is - or at least, Dark Souls is what the first devs who adapted tabletop RPGs to the videogame medium would have aimed for if they had the techno at that time.

JRPGs started in the 80s by borrowing ideas from western RPG and then quickly evolved along the lines of Japan's anime/manga culture. It's particularly evident in Dragon Quest's first episodes.

 

[kevin1025]

I still really need to play Nier. I keep seeing it for ten bucks in Best Buy, too...

 

[HK-47]

It's somewhat the reason why I think Dark Souls is closer to the ideal of what a RPG should be than Mass Effect is - or at least, Dark Souls is what the first devs who adapted tabletop RPGs to the videogame medium would have aimed for if they had the techno at that time.

JRPGs started in the 80s by borrowing ideas from western RPG and then quickly evolved along the lines of Japan's anime/manga culture. It's particularly evident in Dragon Quest's first episodes.

Why does this matter though? Both video games and pen and papers have significantly evolved since then.

 

[Flying Toaster]

I still really need to play Nier. I keep seeing it for ten bucks in Best Buy, too...

This game was a sleeper hit to me. Absolutely amazing and when GAF had a LTTP or some type of thread about it I got it... freaking brilliant game. You absolutely should play it.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

After reading the above replies, I want to clarify as to what I term an RPG.

Chrono Trigger was the first RPG that I played and what got me into the genre back then. To me, I don't base JRPG's or WRPG's on where they're developed. I base them on how they play. Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, old school FF, Suikoden, etc. are turn based RPG's. These are what I consider JRPG's to be. Games like Secret of Mana / Evermore, Illusion of Gaia, etc. are action hack and slash RPG's. I consider these to be WRPG's.

Now, I know my meaning is wrong and not what it's meant to be but after playing so many RPG's back in the SNES/GEN/PS days, the majority of games nowadays that are termed as JRPG's or WRPG's in my opinion have no right to be called as such and is an insult to all those classics that I played growing up. To me, the JRPG genre is dead on consoles and the games that do get released nowadays are nowhere close to those old school games from back then.

I see games like The Witcher 3 which to me, is an action RPG ala Secret of Mana, etc. because it's not turn based. It's basically an action hack and slash WRPG which is basically what the majority of RPG's are nowadays on consoles. Portables and PC is a different story but I don't play games on either so for me personally, I could care less.

A game like the recently released Citizens of Earth is what I call a JRPG simply because it's a turn based RPG and the majority of turn based RPG's back then were referred to as JRPG's. Back then, there was no WRPG's references. It was simply JRPG or ARPG which was an action based RPG

Below is what I consider a TRUE JRPG/ARPG list (no first person shooters or third person shooters) -

http://kotaku.com/the-20-jrpgs-you-must-play-1222229344

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3581/a_japanese_rpg_primer_the_.php?print=1

Now, again, I know im 100% wrong in regards to what I personally consider an JRPG or an (W)ARPG but this is how I will always look at the genre. I will never ever consider Mass Effect (third person sci-fi shooter with RPG elements) or similar games to be RPG's.

Sorry but this is just my own personal opinion and why to me, the genre is dead on consoles. It's more alive and well on PSP/Vita/3DS then it is on consoles. For someone like me who grew up playing Chrono Trigger (all time favorite), Earthbound and so many others, I can't and won't view games like Mass Effect, Fallout, etc. to be considered anywhere close to being an RPG.

And in terms of role playing a character, by that definition, EVERY game would be considered an RPG because you're playing as a character in every game. What's next? Assassin's Creed? Far Cry? Watch Dogs? GTA? Sorry but no.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone or bash anyone's opinion. This is simply how I look at it. I also look at old school RPG's from SquareSoft and compare them to what they develop now and im sorry, it's not even close. The RPG's of now aren't even good enough to kiss the ass of all the old school RPG's that I played back then.

Sorry but to me, the entire genre and all these games that get called RPG's nowadays is nothing more than a joke. And anyone here can see me as a joke if they choose to simply because I know how I view RPG's is incorrect but playing all those classics back then and looking at what's available now, no no no, just simply no.

Chrono Trigger FTW!!!!

 

[Raggie]

The definition of an RPG is an age-old question, and discussions about it never go anywhere. Everyone has an opinion and reaching a concensus is impossible, unless you're in an insular echo chamber. I think the decision to allow every game that gets nominated on this list is the only right way to do it.

I've long time ago given up on even trying to make up some sort of 'rules' to define the genre, and I just go with my gut feeling. I think Mass Effect is an RPG because it feels like one. On the other hand, I think games like System Shock, Bioshock and Deus Ex belong to their own genre.

In these days genres are far less defined than they used to. Putting games into neat categories is sometimes impossible. I think the question of genre definitions is mostly pointless anyway. Is it a good game? Do you like it? Okay, then. That's the only thing that really matters, when you come down to it.

 

[HK-47]

I dont even know how to respond to that post. Fallout not an RPG...man

 

[dude]

I do believe the reason you are confused as to what role playing is, is that you have never played a game with actual role playing. You think there's role playing in watch dogs? Try looking at dialogue trees in Planescape Torment and tell me that reminds you of "role playing" in watch dogs.

As for your own personal opinion on the term RPG, that seems to be based on nostalgia and lack of diversity in your RPG library.