Majormaxxx
Member
The sequel trilogy.
-
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Naughty Dog is laying off contract developers, asking them to keep it quiet. TLOU Online "is basically on ice at this point"
- Thread starter Tiago Rodrigues
- Start date
midnightAI
Member
I think I must be dumb, what sequel trilogy? a sequel trilogy after TLOU 2? a sequel trilogy after Uncharted 4/Uncharted: Lost Legacy? I dont understand, did I miss three Naughty Dog games being released since those games?
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DrFigs
Member
you're making tlou2 fans look bad, man
Topher
Gold Member
Yeah, but what about the B team that made UC The Last Legacy? That team no longer exists?
Why? I'm confused about what sequels are being discussed as well.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
UC LL was made by Kurt Margenau, who later became the co-game-director of TLOU 2, with Neil as the Creative Director. We don't know what he is doing right now. Most likely, working with Neil again on his single-player game as the game director, with Neil being the creative director. So that "B team" had merged into the main team when working and shipping on TLOU 2. That's why they were able to release TLOU 2 in just 34 months after releasing Uncharted Lost Legacy.
The second co-director (TLOU 2) was Anthony, who was working on TLOU 2 Online, along with Vineet, as co-directors. This project is on ice. These 2 now may have shifted to working on the rumored new IP, if the TLOU 2 Online project is 100% on pause.
Shaun also worked on UC LL before leaving Naughty Dog (IIRC). He later joined ND again and shipped TLOU P1 Remake. We also don't know what he is doing now. Most likely, he is not working on a separate game but is working with Neil's main team.
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Topher
Gold Member
Perhaps. I mean.....we don't know a lot more than we know. Hopefully we get a showcase after Spider-man 2 releases that clears some of this up.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yeah, of course there is some secrecy because studios don't reveal their entire pipeline.
But my original point was that some of the criticism seems extremely unwarranted, as if Naughty Dog would have shipped a game had they not been working on TLOU Online. Because it has just been 3 years since they shipped TLOU 2.
And their single-player team is a separate one that has been working on the game, that's being led by Neil. It's the separate (newly-built) MP team, with different directors that had issues. So the SP game has always been in the works.
Topher
Gold Member
Yeah, but that's a lot of speculation, isn't it? All I know is that Druckmann is working on his own thing. Beyond that is anyone's guess and that's where a lot of this "criticism" is coming from, imo. Folks are seeing this Gaas push everywhere and then rumours of shit not going well on that front with ND. Really the criticism should be directed at SIE management if anywhere, imo, but I don't know if we can assume the problems are not impacting the studio elsewhere. And lots are assuming it is. Do we know either way? Doesn't seem like we do.
What's this about?
midnightAI
Member
In what way?
Gojiira
Member
The series as a whole, she was lead writer on 4 but as I said WAS PUSHED OUT by Druckman during 4’s development.
Topher
Gold Member
Also not accurate.
"We feel it necessary to clear up a very important point that was unprofessionally misreported when the story broke. Bruce Straley and Neil Druckmann were NOT involved in what transpired,"
Uncharted creator not "forced out" of Naughty Dog - co-presidents
Uncharted creator Amy Hennig was not "forced out" of Naughty Dog, according to co-presidents Evan Wells and Christophe …
www.vg247.com
Kokoloko85
Member
Agreed. People are weird
tmlDan
Member
Not true, Druckmann did not make that decision. But good, cause UC3 was the worst UC after the first game and a complete mess story-wise.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Not really. What I said isn't speculation.
I essentially said only 2 things: (1) Neil has a separate team and been working on a single-player game, while the MP game was being handled by a separate team, newly built specifically for this, and (2) ND wouldn't have shipped their SP game, even if they weren't working on the MP games, because it has been only 3 years since TLOU 2 shipped.
There are other studios that haven't been working on any MP game and has been fairing even worse than Naughty Dog.
- Ninja Theory shipped their last game in 2017 and still hasn't shipped their next game.
- The Coalition shipped their last game in 2019 and still hasn't shipped their next game.
- Sucker Punch shipped their last game in 2020 and still hasn't shipped their next game.
- Rocksteady shipped their last game in 2015 and still hasn't shipped their next game.
- Bend shipped their last game in 2019 and still hasn't shipped their next game.
In comparison, Naughty Dog shipped their last game only 3 years ago in 2020 and has since released:
- Uncharted 4 and LL Remastered on PS5
- Uncharted 4 and LL Remastered on PC
- TLOU P1 Remake on PS5
- TLOU P1 Remake on PC
- HBO TV series where Neil was heavily involved and even directed an episode
If they fail to release any game until 2026, then the criticism will be completely valid.
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Topher
Gold Member
At this point, I think it is nearly certain that ND won't have a game by 2026, late 2025 at the earliest. Previous announcements from Sony have been at least 2 years prior to launch.
Unless, of course, Sony has been holding back these announcement in which case that's not on ND, but SIE.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I think the game is closer to launch, but the decision to not announce it is intentional. And this is a shift across PS Studios.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com...vealing-past-games-too-early-hurt-the-studio/
But let's see how it all pans out.
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Stooky
Member
Not true, just a dumb ass internet rumor
Topher
Gold Member
I think the game is closer to launch, but the decision to not announce it is intentional. And this is a shift across PS Studios.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com...vealing-past-games-too-early-hurt-the-studio/
But let's see how it all pans out.
I hope you are right.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I think the game is closer to launch, but the decision to not announce it is intentional. And this is a shift across PS Studios.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com...vealing-past-games-too-early-hurt-the-studio/
But let's see how it all pans out.
I HATE THIS EXCUSE!!!
TheGodfather07
Member
Just show us your next proper game and let us forget this shit!
balls of snow
Member
Yeah. Like we know Ghost of Tsushima 2 is well on its way. Just drop a story trailer ala Death Stranding 2 last year.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I think the game is closer to launch, but the decision to not announce it is intentional. And this is a shift across PS Studios.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com...vealing-past-games-too-early-hurt-the-studio/
But let's see how it all pans out.
Isn't that article image in context to them revealing Factions ? It's dated January before all the shit about Factions via the Shrier article or elsewhere came out.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I much prefer this over the excruciating wait of 4 years between the announcement and release of TLOU 2.
I really like when games are announced and released fairly quickly: Miles Morales, Demon's Souls, Sackboy, Helldivers 2, etc.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Not only in the context of Factions. Just talking in general about the entirety of ND's approach moving forward, which covers both Factions and the new unannounced game (which they aren't announcing early for aforementioned reasons)
ProtoByte
Member
You're right, it's just a start. These games aren't supposed to be grand opening grand closing. They're supposed to last, and last a while. I don't agree with it, but this is what the market has decided.
Varteras
Gold Member
Not only in the context of Factions. Just talking in general about the entirety of ND's approach moving forward, which covers both Factions and the new unannounced game (which they aren't announcing early for aforementioned reasons)
Yeah this is why I don't think anyone should be terribly bothered with what seems to be happening right now, as far as what Naughty Dog may offer this gen. Even if Factions is canceled, Naughty Dog wasn't all-hands for that project. They already had another one in the works. Depending on how things go from here, there is even enough time to squeeze yet another major project out within the next 5 years. They have over 400 people. Plenty of staff to go hard on multiple projects. Also having a hard time imagining they won't continue to expand as Sony's heavy hitters seem to be. I actually fully expect TLOU3 to hit right at the end of the gen like the other two games did.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Exactly. And they have ported Uncharted 4 and LL to PS5 (+PC) and remade TLOU P1 for PS5 (+PC). It's not like they were completely sitting on their asses.
I'm still confident that we will get 3 games from Naughty Dog this generation: TLOU 3, TLOU Online, New IP. There is also the rumored Uncharted game that Naughty Dog is consulting on. If the rumor is true, that game should also be nearing completion (>60% dev).
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I feel like we are going to hear something major leaked from the studio soon. The quarter is up and we enter peak.
If factions is dead then...there's gonna be some nasty news coming out soon.
If factions is dead then...there's gonna be some nasty news coming out soon.
cormack12
Gold Member
Games from Naughty Dog and Sucker Punch for PS5 were unlikely in the short term after they released games for the PS4 swansong. I didn't think it was right then and it was inevitable we wouldn't see anything for a while. I think Ghost should have been cross gen and TLOU II next gen only. However I can understand in financial terms why you want your games reaching the biggest install bases.
We've also seen nothing from Sucker Punch on their next game and that's the best barometer since they both released their last big games around the same time. There is more frustration around Naughty Dog because TLOU I and TLOU II remaster - seriously no one was asking for these. They will be of high quality and have the usual ND production values, but no one was clamouring for them. Factions - again had a decent but relatively small communtity. I would say that Uncharted's multiplayer community would be bigger on the balance of it. Then you have the studio lead who is off working on the TV series - which to put it bluntly has not even been an authentic like for like.
Of all the live service games I've heard touted after the mess that was D:AS (that couldn't recover after going f2p), Horizon is the most compelling. And I don't even care about the art style, I think it can work and be really successful. I also remember what Neil was saying about retaining talent and new leadership teams being established.
One of the trickiest things to do when restructuring and a common mistake made is to assume someone who is superb at their current job, is going to be just as good in a job that works at a more senior level and you won't lose anything from the position(s) they were previously in. Like making your lead DBA into a DBA Team Leader. You can potentially - and it happens often in tech - that you've lose a really good DBA, who is now struggling transitioning into a different role so you take a double hit. And they end up trying to do bits of both jobs still.
I don't think anyone has any concerns about what Naughty Dog will show. They are obviously at the bleeding edge of tech, have some of the best animators and artists in the industry but are they being utilised for what the fans actually want. Sucker Punch haven't officially announced GoT2 yet have they? But it's a safe bet they are working on it. No one really knows what to expect from Naughty Dog at the moment either. We do know Neil said they only had an outline and weren't even planning on working on it (TLOU III) towards the end of 2021. We also know he hinted that the studio wanted to try something else, and games like TLOU III take huge amounts of time now. Confirmed by explaining burnout on ideas, so in reality this will probably be another PS5 swansong, that the cynic in me would say leads to another remaster on PS6 within 2 years.
www.neogaf.com
I don't think the time span between TLOU II and the next game is that mnuch of an issue. What is an issue is that most of the output we've seen is not driven by fan demands but reselling IP, losing the lead to work on TV Shows and seeing a large scope project effectively iced. To me, as a fan of Naughty Dog immensely (except the narrative structure of UC4), all that is wasted studio time, resource and money that could be delivering their first flagship title for my PS5 - which is what I bought it for. And no, they aren't the only studio in this position, first, third or other consoles.
We've also seen nothing from Sucker Punch on their next game and that's the best barometer since they both released their last big games around the same time. There is more frustration around Naughty Dog because TLOU I and TLOU II remaster - seriously no one was asking for these. They will be of high quality and have the usual ND production values, but no one was clamouring for them. Factions - again had a decent but relatively small communtity. I would say that Uncharted's multiplayer community would be bigger on the balance of it. Then you have the studio lead who is off working on the TV series - which to put it bluntly has not even been an authentic like for like.
Of all the live service games I've heard touted after the mess that was D:AS (that couldn't recover after going f2p), Horizon is the most compelling. And I don't even care about the art style, I think it can work and be really successful. I also remember what Neil was saying about retaining talent and new leadership teams being established.
One of the trickiest things to do when restructuring and a common mistake made is to assume someone who is superb at their current job, is going to be just as good in a job that works at a more senior level and you won't lose anything from the position(s) they were previously in. Like making your lead DBA into a DBA Team Leader. You can potentially - and it happens often in tech - that you've lose a really good DBA, who is now struggling transitioning into a different role so you take a double hit. And they end up trying to do bits of both jobs still.
I don't think anyone has any concerns about what Naughty Dog will show. They are obviously at the bleeding edge of tech, have some of the best animators and artists in the industry but are they being utilised for what the fans actually want. Sucker Punch haven't officially announced GoT2 yet have they? But it's a safe bet they are working on it. No one really knows what to expect from Naughty Dog at the moment either. We do know Neil said they only had an outline and weren't even planning on working on it (TLOU III) towards the end of 2021. We also know he hinted that the studio wanted to try something else, and games like TLOU III take huge amounts of time now. Confirmed by explaining burnout on ideas, so in reality this will probably be another PS5 swansong, that the cynic in me would say leads to another remaster on PS6 within 2 years.
Neil Druckmann: Next big Naughty Dog game being worked on – "We're already into our next Project"
- The Last Of Us Online is their next one game to be released, lots of info "coming later in the year" - Naughty Dog has restructured to be able to develop multiple games at the same time (be it new IPs, sequels or both). - The studio now has a large team of producers, game directors and writers...
I don't think the time span between TLOU II and the next game is that mnuch of an issue. What is an issue is that most of the output we've seen is not driven by fan demands but reselling IP, losing the lead to work on TV Shows and seeing a large scope project effectively iced. To me, as a fan of Naughty Dog immensely (except the narrative structure of UC4), all that is wasted studio time, resource and money that could be delivering their first flagship title for my PS5 - which is what I bought it for. And no, they aren't the only studio in this position, first, third or other consoles.
They should have put out a basic multiplayer and built upon it. Other developers have proven live service and iteration is the best way to go and keep players interest.
Disgraceful waste of time and resources, alhtough to be fair I don't have any faith in ND's ability to make quality multiplayer games after the deable of Uncharted 2 multiplayer and 3 was even worse.
Disgraceful waste of time and resources, alhtough to be fair I don't have any faith in ND's ability to make quality multiplayer games after the deable of Uncharted 2 multiplayer and 3 was even worse.
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Negotiator101
Member
How exactly are they putting out 3 games from now to 2028? Unless they release one next year which is doubtful given we've seen nothing. So let's say 2025 for the next game, you think they'll release another 2 games in 2 years? Absolutely no chance.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Maybe it's not the writer but this bizarre world that we live in.
The TLOU remaster got PC gamers into the series so it wasn't a waste of time.Games from Naughty Dog and Sucker Punch for PS5 were unlikely in the short term after they released games for the PS4 swansong. I didn't think it was right then and it was inevitable we wouldn't see anything for a while. I think Ghost should have been cross gen and TLOU II next gen only. However I can understand in financial terms why you want your games reaching the biggest install bases.
We've also seen nothing from Sucker Punch on their next game and that's the best barometer since they both released their last big games around the same time. There is more frustration around Naughty Dog because TLOU I and TLOU II remaster - seriously no one was asking for these. They will be of high quality and have the usual ND production values, but no one was clamouring for them. Factions - again had a decent but relatively small communtity. I would say that Uncharted's multiplayer community would be bigger on the balance of it. Then you have the studio lead who is off working on the TV series - which to put it bluntly has not even been an authentic like for like.
Of all the live service games I've heard touted after the mess that was D:AS (that couldn't recover after going f2p), Horizon is the most compelling. And I don't even care about the art style, I think it can work and be really successful. I also remember what Neil was saying about retaining talent and new leadership teams being established.
One of the trickiest things to do when restructuring and a common mistake made is to assume someone who is superb at their current job, is going to be just as good in a job that works at a more senior level and you won't lose anything from the position(s) they were previously in. Like making your lead DBA into a DBA Team Leader. You can potentially - and it happens often in tech - that you've lose a really good DBA, who is now struggling transitioning into a different role so you take a double hit. And they end up trying to do bits of both jobs still.
I don't think anyone has any concerns about what Naughty Dog will show. They are obviously at the bleeding edge of tech, have some of the best animators and artists in the industry but are they being utilised for what the fans actually want. Sucker Punch haven't officially announced GoT2 yet have they? But it's a safe bet they are working on it. No one really knows what to expect from Naughty Dog at the moment either. We do know Neil said they only had an outline and weren't even planning on working on it (TLOU III) towards the end of 2021. We also know he hinted that the studio wanted to try something else, and games like TLOU III take huge amounts of time now. Confirmed by explaining burnout on ideas, so in reality this will probably be another PS5 swansong, that the cynic in me would say leads to another remaster on PS6 within 2 years.
Neil Druckmann: Next big Naughty Dog game being worked on – "We're already into our next Project"
- The Last Of Us Online is their next one game to be released, lots of info "coming later in the year" - Naughty Dog has restructured to be able to develop multiple games at the same time (be it new IPs, sequels or both). - The studio now has a large team of producers, game directors and writers...
I don't think the time span between TLOU II and the next game is that mnuch of an issue. What is an issue is that most of the output we've seen is not driven by fan demands but reselling IP, losing the lead to work on TV Shows and seeing a large scope project effectively iced. To me, as a fan of Naughty Dog immensely (except the narrative structure of UC4), all that is wasted studio time, resource and money that could be delivering their first flagship title for my PS5 - which is what I bought it for. And no, they aren't the only studio in this position, first, third or other consoles.
cormack12
Gold Member
For those only in the PS5 ecosystem, it was. For making more money it was a useful vehicle which is what I said.
"....most of the output we've seen is not driven by fan demands but reselling IP."
"....all that is wasted studio time, resource and money that could be delivering their first flagship title for my PS5."
VulcanRaven
Member
They should just trust that they have a good multiplayer game that people want to buy.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Like it or not, Factions 2 not seeing light of the day is a net loss for fans of the studio.
Even if it would've been a Redfall situation.
Right now Arkane is busy updating the game and am hearing positive things about it.
Naughty Dog could've done the same and you would get a working game much sooner.
Shitting on Redfall/ Suicide Squad has these repurcussions I guess.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
if this game is cancelled, it would such a catastrophic failure for everyone involved. heads should roll.
At the same time, if there is one GaaS concept that could be big as fuck that would be a "Post-apocalyptic zombie game". This is why The Day Before got so much attention.
At the same time, if there is one GaaS concept that could be big as fuck that would be a "Post-apocalyptic zombie game". This is why The Day Before got so much attention.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Naughty Dog would release a much better product than Redfall and Suicide Squad, even in their sleep. But if that's the case, it'd be better if they don't release a game like that at all. Reputation is much more important in that case.
Also, remember the report isn't that the game wasn't good enough or wasn't ready enough. They decided to delay it because there were concerns about its long-term monetization plan.
And the game hasn't been canceled yet. It can still see the light of day.
Horseganador
Member
That those most concerned about the state of ND on the networks are users of other brands who have been waiting for games announced in 2019-2020 is hilarious, we are talking about a developer that almost everything it does is +90 and a goty candidate since 2009 ( TLOU2 goty with more than 300 awards in 2020) and has nothing to prove, his next work will be incredible.
semiconscious
Member
very good. thanks. see, ninja theory, imo, is the embodiment of a game developer that drifted &, eventually, became lost inside its own hype. they represent everything that you don't want happening to your favorite game developers. it's the media molecule 'we're just sooo special' road to nowhere...
diffusionx
Gold Member
the fox swears that he didn't touch the henhouse, news at 11Also not accurate.
"We feel it necessary to clear up a very important point that was unprofessionally misreported when the story broke. Bruce Straley and Neil Druckmann were NOT involved in what transpired,"
Uncharted creator not "forced out" of Naughty Dog - co-presidents
Uncharted creator Amy Hennig was not "forced out" of Naughty Dog, according to co-presidents Evan Wells and Christophe …
Topher
Gold Member
The point here is that the fox wasn't Druckmann (or Straley).
vaibhavpisal
Member
Their reputation took a bigger hit when Bungie came in and cancelled their game. I mean, who the hell is Bungie, right?
Personally I think game should've been released with original Naughty Dog vision. Even with issues and all, whatever they may have been. Redfall situation or no, GAAS titles can always be updated to make them better.
If you are an Arkane fan, you have Redfall to play, which is on track to being an enjoyable title. Not sure if it's there yet. This game should've done the same.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
it depends if you consider those things
successes or failures.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I'm curious as to what the original GAAS elements were if they were deemed non-viable.
From what we can infer the game was going to be a strong blend of storytelling and multiplayer.
Cosmetics would obviously feature in that, and likely survival materials.
I wonder whether ND were going to deliver more story content for their GAAS element over time via roadmap and whether that was deemed enough to make consistent cash flow.
Bungie's model is to charge for story expansions and also for weapons, cosmetics etc. I wonder why ND couldn't do that as well.
I'm assuming there was going to be one huge map with multiple instances running. Characters working alone and in teams, gathering resources etc. An element of extraction would make sense too.
From what we can infer the game was going to be a strong blend of storytelling and multiplayer.
Cosmetics would obviously feature in that, and likely survival materials.
I wonder whether ND were going to deliver more story content for their GAAS element over time via roadmap and whether that was deemed enough to make consistent cash flow.
Bungie's model is to charge for story expansions and also for weapons, cosmetics etc. I wonder why ND couldn't do that as well.
I'm assuming there was going to be one huge map with multiple instances running. Characters working alone and in teams, gathering resources etc. An element of extraction would make sense too.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
With Druckmann at the helm, the writing was on the wall.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
This made absolutely no sense. It's like playing in a football game and after you score a touchdown they force everyone to watch the Jumbo Tron with a 3 minute cutscene about how those 7 pts mattered in Billy and Regina's zombie story.
Multiplayer gamers don't want to watch cutscenes.
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