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[Hypereides]

I honestly don't understand why they didn't just replicate the core of the original MP. It was great to begin with. They didn't have to "innovate" upon it.

Ahh so Jim Ryan was forced to retire because all the GaaS shit failed including this enormous waste of resources.

I'm really not buying his "jet lag" reasoning as a grounds to retire. Its probably his way of doing a graceful exit.

 

[Flutta]

You must not have been there if you think prior games were not as successful. Crash Bandicoot was a synonym for Playstation, it was their unofficial mascot. Whoever had a PS1, they had Crash in their catalog. If you are measuring success by metrics, well sure because the install base of PS1 players versus PS1,2 and 3 is significantly higher so more sales would be made. But to say Crash was some little fart in the wind is heavily downplaying it. The game was huge and graced more magazine covers than Uncharted did.

I mean sure when you put words in my mouth..

I never said anything of what you just said. Uncharted 2 won GOTY and sold a boat load. I would even say that U2 shifted the tide for the PS3 massive blunder during that gen. So yeah it’s the game that put ND on the map not crash. Crash was a good game sold well but was not so in the same league as UC2.

I mean if crash was so important to Sony why is in the hands of Act and now MS

 

[midnightAI]

Do you have a source for that?

The Kotaku article says:

.."has begun cutting contracts short for dozens of workers."
Their contracts won’t be officially terminated until the end of October and they’ll be expected to work through the rest of the month. Sony did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

It certainly sounds (from the wording) that their contracts are being cut short, ie cancelled. Obviously unless we know the term (period) of their contracts (which may all be different if they were hired at different times) it's impossible to say.

It could be that they were due to be contracted until the end of 2023 but have just been told (ie given a month's notice ish) that they are being canned in a month's time (ie end of October).

They are all most likely on rolling contracts (they may be fixed term but unlikely for QA as you generally don't know exactly how long you'll need them, although will generally have a minimum term) so they don't have to give notice other than until the end of the month.

Also ...

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Second also: and is it not normal for Kotaku to sensationalise news?

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

Hey DForce , everything still typical and going as planned with this 5+ year multiplayer project?

But nice money waste ND and Sony, keep wasting more?

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I imagine part of this story is outrage embellishment to generate outrage clicks. Contractors having contracts end isn't a layoff and they can be held to any NDA they signed while under contract.

Nobody cares about the fucking contractors.

The outrage is about a loved franchise being driven into the ground and a studio wasting years and god knows how much money on vapor ware.

 

[demigod]

Seriously. The gall of these companies. Fuck em.

What gall? You just going to bash them without reading the OP and believing shitaku? Contractors do not get severance pay.

I take it most of you guys bashing ND has never been a contract worker before.

 

[midnightAI]

Nobody cares about the fucking contractors.

The outrage is about a loved franchise being driven into the ground and a studio wasting years and god knows how much money on vapor ware.

Huh?

I'm pretty sure many people are concerned for the contractors who will be out of work.

They have one source according to the article, ONE that claims the game has been put on ice (doubt it unless it's a timing thing to coincide with the TV series, which I also doubt)

Rules:
1, Don't get your news from Kotaku
2, Don't get your news from Jason Schreier
3, Don't get your news from Bloomberg
4, Don't get your news from Reddit
5, Don't get your news from Twitter
6, Don't get your news from YouTube
7, Don't get your news from Kotaku (that one needs to be mentioned twice)

Now a combination of the above is better so long as it's different sources or at least named sources. But 'we have heard from an anonymous source that...' does not hold any weight whatsoever on its own (it may be true but most times it isn't, we go through this every time with unverified game leaks that never happen)

So, until Naught Dog and/or PlayStation come out and say the game is on hold for whatever reason take the Kotaku 'news' about it being put on ice with a grain of salt.

 

[Bkdk]

Recession hits gaming industry harder than other sectors. The over expansion and over hiring in 2020 and 21 is going to lead to many project closures, developer and publisher failing and layoffs. Even loaded corps like MS would likely do their own mass restructuring and big change in personnel in their gaming studios to better meet expectations.

 

[hyperbertha]

What gall? You just going to bash them without reading the OP and believing shitaku? Contractors do not get severance pay.

I take it most of you guys bashing ND has never been a contract worker before.

That's not the outrageous part. Who are they to tell people to keep silent?

 

[Z O N E]

The moment they announced Factions with a CONCEPT ART... I knew that shit was not coming out.

 

[demigod]

That's not the outrageous part. Who are they to tell people to keep silent?

Have you not heard of NDAs?

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

I mean sure when you put words in my mouth..

I never said anything of what you just said. Uncharted 2 won GOTY and sold a boat load. I would even say that U2 shifted the tide for the PS3 massive blunder during that gen. So yeah it’s the game that put ND on the map not crash. Crash was a good game sold well but was not so in the same league as UC2.

I mean if crash was so important to Sony why is in the hands of Act and now MS

Crash 1 sales are 6.8 million. Uncharted 2 is 6.5 million so there's that. I mean you are comparing and expecting a franchise from 1996 to still keep holding the torch. If Uncharted had 10 sequels and spin-offs it would lose its steam, as it showed already with U4. Also, Naughty Dog of yesterday is a totally different team of leaders. The 2 co-founders left ages ago. So I don't understand your what you are getting at that it's now MS property. Point is the game Crash Bandicoot is what made naughty dog what they are, not Uncharted. You are saying they never had success until U2 which is factually wrong since Crash 1 sold more than U2.

Quake 1-2-3 were massive milestones at ID. So just because they haven't touched the franchise in ages, it somehow means the game was never popular and actually it was DooM 2016 that made them. Thats literally your logic which is laughable.

 

[veterangamerUK]

I hope not...
TLOU 1 was about saving the world.
TLOU 2 was a downgrade to a revenge story.
What would TLOU 3 be about? Ellie breaking a nail?

I hope it's a new IP.

Ellie on the hunt for a minimiser bra to hide her breasts before she can fully transition

 

[Flutta]

Crash 1 sales are 6.8 million. Uncharted 2 is 6.5 million so there's that. I mean you are comparing and expecting a franchise from 1996 to still keep holding the torch. If Uncharted had 10 sequels and spin-offs it would lose its steam, as it showed already with U4. Also, Naughty Dog of yesterday is a totally different team of leaders. The 2 co-founders left ages ago. So I don't understand your what you are getting at that it's now MS property. Point is the game Crash Bandicoot is what made naughty dog what they are, not Uncharted. You are saying they never had success until U2 which is factually wrong since Crash 1 sold more than U2.

Quake 1-2-3 were massive milestones at ID. So just because they haven't touched the franchise in ages, it somehow means the game was never popular and actually it was DooM 2016 that made them. Thats literally your logic which is laughable.

Listen if you can’t argue without a bunch of strawmens then i’m out. If you want to believe that crash is what made ND to be what it is today be my guest but don’t make up a bunch of shit i haven’t said, AGAIN!

 

[Bernardougf]

Besides being the chief reason Naughty Dog degraded all of its well written and well liked Male Characters?
Or how he is a fan of the utter trite and insulting bullshit that was Feminist Frequency.
Or how he literally pushed out possibly the best writer in all of Videogames (Amy Hennig)…Then started pushing gender politics and other garbage.
He made Naughty Dog commercial but at every turn has pissed on the fanbase and will continue to do so until he has a reality check. I wont deny he knows how to get the most out of Naughty Dog and at a glance he can make compelling games. But he’s a cunt and needs to stay well clear of Insomniac…

Amém brother.

 

[hyperbertha]

Have you not heard of NDAs?

So they signed an NDA they won't disclose the firing?

 

[NickFire]

I'm beyond ready for new Sony leadership. Just hope there's enough in the pipeline while they get their feet wet.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I hope this actually comes out even if it’s not gonna be some huge successful game. Naughty Dog graphics and attention to detail without the slow walk and chats and set pieces sounded amazing to me.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

One point that I haven't seen brought surrounding this topic...and maybe it's meaningless:

Naughty Dog specializes in production values, linear gameplay, high quality cutscenes.

Those 3 strengths are antithetical to multiplayer. A great modern multiplayer game is located on the opposite end of the spectrum that a Naughty Dog game is.

 

[demigod]

So they signed an NDA they won't disclose the firing?

No, it’s about the state of the game.

 

[fart town usa]

Sony only need one but they're investing in so many, I think they're signing these exclusivity deals, effectively to fill gaps they've left to make these GaaS titles. But from what I've seen of FairGames and Concord, I see both shut down within three years. They look really poor. If you're going to chase this market, do it right. Don't throw good money after bad trying to make it work.

I had the same thought the other day and it made me shudder. If Sony truly hasn't been showing games because there are no games, well then that makes us no better than those green rat fucks.

What a state to be in.

 

[Rendered Tangent]

What have they been doing over at ND all this time?

Surely, by now, after however many years it has been, they should have something approaching a finished product with some polishing to do, and yet it sounds like they have barely made any progress at all?
Using the original Factions wouldn't have been a bad starting point, and then everything else is about refinement and testing and player feedback.

Again, what on earth have they been doing all this time?

It sounds like they don't have anything usable at all, otherwise someone else would have been put onto the project to get it across the finish line.
Instead, it sounds like there's nothing of value they can use and it's back to the drawing board.

At this point in proceedings, they should admit defeat, apologise to the fans, and look to remaster the original Factions multiplayer within 12 months and give it away free to all TLOU 2 owners like they should have done in the first place.

 

[DForce]

Besides being the chief reason Naughty Dog degraded all of its well written and well liked Male Characters?
Or how he is a fan of the utter trite and insulting bullshit that was Feminist Frequency.
Or how he literally pushed out possibly the best writer in all of Videogames (Amy Hennig)…Then started pushing gender politics and other garbage.
He made Naughty Dog commercial but at every turn has pissed on the fanbase and will continue to do so until he has a reality check. I wont deny he knows how to get the most out of Naughty Dog and at a glance he can make compelling games. But he’s a cunt and needs to stay well clear of Insomniac…

If Bruce and Amy were such great writers then they would be all over the game industry but they're not. Amy's last piece of work was Forspoken and we know how that turned out.

Think ppl just want to express their anger because they don't like the direction he took HIS story.

People pretend Anita had a big influence on Tlou and that's just more BS theories thrown around.

 

[hyperbertha]

No, it’s about the state of the game.

Then why did you bring up the NDA?

 

[John Wick]

ND over the years have lost a lot of good talent. Due to working conditions and crunch. Factions should have been a part of TLOU2 and not a Gaas quick bucks title. Looks like what goes round comes round.

 

[jayj]

I get a distinct feeling that Naughty Dog as a game developer is pretty much done. I don't expect them to make another good game ever again. Uncharted 4 was the last one. RIP.

Same. They had a good run, but TLOU2 marked the beginning of the end.

 

[ergem]

THey should have just released TLOU online. Who cares what BUngie thinks about it. Not evert game needs to or can maintain a player base forever.

I think the online MP will be bundled with TLoU 3.

The game itself will have more legs because of it. The MP could still potentially become successful like GTA online. Without it releasing on its own, the business model will not rely on microtransactions but with the game selling for years to come even for discounts.

The microtransaction will be a bonus but will not be it’s main money generation.

GaaS is hard. The consumers must be constantly engaged with continuous content. ND cannot do that.

 

[jayj]

Naughty Dog really turned into an incompetent studio this generation.

Honestly, that seems to happen to every big developer that gets overrated these days. Fans act like they can do no wrong, and they start doing everyone wrong.

 

[Chronicle]

But the devs!

 

[Kerotan]

Ahh so Jim Ryan was forced to retire because all the GaaS shit failed including this enormous waste of resources.

I mean it would explain why their output has slowed down. They have Bungie covering the GAAS shooter side and GT7 the racing. Maybe 1 or 2 other Devs max chase it but don't put too many eggs in that saturated basket.

There's a Gap in the single player game market. Not everyone needs to be Fortnite, siege, rocket league or fall guys.

 

[DrFigs]

Besides being the chief reason Naughty Dog degraded all of its well written and well liked Male Characters?
Or how he is a fan of the utter trite and insulting bullshit that was Feminist Frequency.
Or how he literally pushed out possibly the best writer in all of Videogames (Amy Hennig)…Then started pushing gender politics and other garbage.
He made Naughty Dog commercial but at every turn has pissed on the fanbase and will continue to do so until he has a reality check. I wont deny he knows how to get the most out of Naughty Dog and at a glance he can make compelling games. But he’s a cunt and needs to stay well clear of Insomniac…

The capping for Amy Hennig has got to stop. Maybe at one point she was a good writer, i'd never know since the last game she worked on was Forspoken

 

[Gojiira]

If Bruce and Amy were such great writers then they would be all over the game industry but they're not. Amy's last piece of work was Forspoken and we know how that turned out.

Think ppl just want to express their anger because they don't like the direction he took HIS story.

People pretend Anita had a big influence on Tlou and that's just more BS theories thrown around.

Sorry but Amy was lead writer for Uncharted, and more importantly Legacy of Kain so her working on Forspoken means jack and shit given her stellar output prior. She wrote Drake, easily one of the most likeable heroes in all of gaming. And if you dont like or appreciate Kain and Raziel gtfo.
Also never said Anita had any influence, but her politics most certainly did given the way Naughty Dog or rather Druckmans writing went after he openly showed her dupport.
Furthermore if TLOU is ‘HIS’ game to be written as he saw fit, Uncharted was AMYS GAME to be written how she saw fit without him forcing her out and sticking in his nonsense gender politics crap…

 

[Gojiira]

The capping for Amy Hennig has got to stop. Maybe at one point she was a good writer, i'd never know since the last game she worked on was Forspoken

Mhmm most writers work on duds, doesnt alter the fact she has a stellar record beyond that…

 

[DrFigs]

Mhmm most writers work on duds, doesnt alter the fact she has a stellar record beyond that…

The only Uncharted she had sole writing credit on was 3, and idk where you stand on it, but imo it holds up the worst. not only that but Druckman went on to write TLoU 1 & 2, and i have to say, just in terms of story telling, it's not close which is the better series. but i hear you, at one point, she was amazing.

edit: i dont want to be mean to Amy Hennig.
She was the lead writer on Uncharted 1 and 2, which were both good. but there were other people also working on those games. there's a narrative about Naughty Dog that imo doesn't hold up when you look at the games they made after she's left (their most critically acclaimed ones), and then look at what she's worked on after she left.

 

[DForce]

Sorry but Amy was lead writer for Uncharted, and more importantly Legacy of Kain so her working on Forspoken means jack and shit given her stellar output prior. She wrote Drake, easily one of the most likeable heroes in all of gaming. And if you dont like or appreciate Kain and Raziel gtfo.
Also never said Anita had any influence, but her politics most certainly did given the way Naughty Dog or rather Druckmans writing went after he openly showed her dupport.
Furthermore if TLOU is ‘HIS’ game to be written as he saw fit, Uncharted was AMYS GAME to be written how she saw fit without him forcing her out and sticking in his nonsense gender politics crap…

Sorry, but if someone is actually the best writer in the industry, then she would have been credited a lot more within the past 10 years but she barely has anything to show for it.

If you say Antia didn't have any influence but then say her politics did, then you're contradicting yourself.

And yes, it's his game. This is why people are leads in the writing department and the writing team doesn't always consist of 2-3.. but a room full of writers.

Neil was working on TLOU before he even arrived at ND. This identity politics is just another excuse to complain about something. People just throw theories out there as to why something happened in the story when one one was int he writer's room.

 

[Stooky]

I mean sure when you put words in my mouth..

I never said anything of what you just said. Uncharted 2 won GOTY and sold a boat load. I would even say that U2 shifted the tide for the PS3 massive blunder during that gen. So yeah it’s the game that put ND on the map not crash. Crash was a good game sold well but was not so in the same league as UC2.

I mean if crash was so important to Sony why is in the hands of Act and now MS

you are 100% wrong about crash bandicoot. its the game that put playstation and naughty dog on the map. it gave playstation ammo against nintendo. sony wanted crash for there mascot and it spawned alot of clones. it was technical marvel for its era. U2 was a beast on different level.

 

[Fishels]

Huh?

I'm pretty sure many people are concerned for the contractors who will be out of work.

They have one source according to the article, ONE that claims the game has been put on ice (doubt it unless it's a timing thing to coincide with the TV series, which I also doubt)

Rules:
1, Don't get your news from Kotaku
2, Don't get your news from Jason Schreier
3, Don't get your news from Bloomberg
4, Don't get your news from Reddit
5, Don't get your news from Twitter
6, Don't get your news from YouTube
7, Don't get your news from Kotaku (that one needs to be mentioned twice)

Now a combination of the above is better so long as it's different sources or at least named sources. But 'we have heard from an anonymous source that...' does not hold any weight whatsoever on its own (it may be true but most times it isn't, we go through this every time with unverified game leaks that never happen)

So, until Naught Dog and/or PlayStation come out and say the game is on hold for whatever reason take the Kotaku 'news' about it being put on ice with a grain of salt.

I really fucking hope you’re right

 

[Heisenberg007]

Sorry but Amy was lead writer for Uncharted, and more importantly Legacy of Kain so her working on Forspoken means jack and shit given her stellar output prior. She wrote Drake, easily one of the most likeable heroes in all of gaming. And if you dont like or appreciate Kain and Raziel gtfo.
Also never said Anita had any influence, but her politics most certainly did given the way Naughty Dog or rather Druckmans writing went after he openly showed her dupport.
Furthermore if TLOU is ‘HIS’ game to be written as he saw fit, Uncharted was AMYS GAME to be written how she saw fit without him forcing her out and sticking in his nonsense gender politics crap…

Do you mean Uncharted 4? No, she was not.

 

[Majormaxxx]

The capping for Amy Hennig has got to stop. Maybe at one point she was a good writer, i'd never know since the last game she worked on was Forspoken

And what happened after she left? We had U4 with Nate's unlikeable brother, the uber mensch female boss, then we had last of us 2 with woke weirdoes dialed up to 11, including the bizarre, bizarre sex scene. Then nothing fucking new. Which version of the studio brought more joy and happiness to the players? the one who was involved in 4 uncharteds (I replayed those around 4 times and played them back to back) and 1 zombie game, or the one who only shipped 2 ps4 games and decided to bury Uncharted? What the actual F? No fun allowed emo wokey dog sucks!!

 

[midnightAI]

I really fucking hope you’re right

I'm sure we'll find out sooner rather than later, it may well be true but I just don't trust Kotaku, they like to sensationalise everything (like the no severance pay thing, that's normal for contractors but they made it out to be some unusual thing, which of course YouTubers have now run with which is why I think we'll know the truth soon, but maybe that was Kotaku's goal all along)

 

[Topher]

Same. They had a good run, but TLOU2 marked the beginning of the end.

Hardly. ND just needs to get back to doing what they do best: single player games.

 

[midnightAI]

And what happened after she left? We had U4 with Nate's unlikeable brother, the uber mensch female boss, then we had last of us 2 with woke weirdoes dialed up to 11, including the bizarre, bizarre sex scene. Then nothing fucking new. Which version of the studio brought more joy and happiness to the players? the one who was involved in 4 uncharteds (I replayed those around 4 times and played them back to back) and 1 zombie game, or the one who only shipped 2 ps4 games and decided to bury Uncharted? What the actual F? No fun allowed emo wokey dog sucks!!

You mean Last of Us 2, that game which is perhaps one of the best games I have ever played? that one? ok Jan

Hennig had nothing to do with Last of Us, and Uncharted 4 and especially Uncharted Lost Legacy are great games, maybe not as good as 2, but that was the highlight of the series, but in my opinion 4 and LL are better than 1 and 3

 

[Heisenberg007]

Hardly. ND just needs to get back to doing what they do best: single player games.

And they have been doing it. Honestly, most of this ND bashing is blown out of proportion, mainly because the public had more visibility into it.

• They released their last game in 2020.
• Even if we take TLOU Online out of the equation, they'd not be releasing their next game before 2026 anyway because games take 5+ years to make now, and ND also released 1 remaster and 1 remake during this period, along with Neil working on the HBO series.
• The single-player ND team was/is different.
• TLOU Online was being made by a separate team. They hired new employees and expanded their studio to work on that. Even the directors of TLOU Online were Anthony and Vineet.
• Neil's team, the single-player team, has been working on the single-player game since TLOU 2's release separately.
• And according to hints and teases out there, they are fairly close to finishing their next game.

 

[nowhat]

in my opinion 4 and LL are better than 1 and 3

1 is obviously flawed in many ways, but I think 3 has some of the best set pieces the series has ever had. That whole cruise liner segment is just incredible.

But the writing, not so much. How you get to the cruise liner is just "pirates out of nowhere". So while Hennig helped create the series, I don't agree she had a good vision on how to take it forward.

 

[Majormaxxx]

You mean Last of Us 2, that game which is perhaps one of the best games I have ever played? that one? ok Jan

Hennig had nothing to do with Last of Us, and Uncharted 4 and especially Uncharted Lost Legacy are great games, maybe not as good as 2, but that was the highlight of the series, but in my opinion 4 and LL are better than 1 and 3

ok zoomer

you probably like the sequels too

 

[TheRedRiders]

Let's hope their next new IP releases by the end of 2024, would be heck of a year for Playstation along with Death Stranding 2.

 

[midnightAI]

ok zoomer

you probably like the sequels too

Sequels to what? Last of Us 2 has no sequel yet and U4 AND U:LL were the last of the Uncharted games so I'm not sure what sequels you are talking about

 

[mitch1971]

 

[midnightAI]

And they have been doing it. Honestly, most of this ND bashing is blown out of proportion, mainly because the public had more visibility into it.

• They released their last game in 2020.
• Even if we take TLOU Online out of the equation, they'd not be releasing their next game before 2026 anyway because games take 5+ years to make now, and ND also released 1 remaster and 1 remake during this period, along with Neil working on the HBO series.
• The single-player ND team was/is different.
• TLOU Online was being made by a separate team. They hired new employees and expanded their studio to work on that. Even the directors of TLOU Online were Anthony and Vineet.
• Neil's team, the single-player team, has been working on the single-player game since TLOU 2's release separately.
• And according to hints and teases out there, they are fairly close to finishing their next game.

Lets hope nothing leaks this time, those TLOU 2 leaks completely ruined the main surprises (and it was almost unavoidable to miss those leaks, they were everywhere, people even trying to actively spoil it for everyone by putting the spoilers in youtube thumbnails etc.). TLOU does rely quite heavily on shock value and if those shocks are spoiled then it partially ruins the game (still didnt stop it being an absolute banger though because the gameplay is amazing)

 

[midnightAI]

Theres a whole thread on this, and I still think he left a couple of weeks ago, still recent but not related to the Kotaku story (I'm sure I read about it already, I could be wrong of course and I'm thinking of someone else)