googleplex
Member
He's already failed if he's trying to port an existing AAA into VR in the first place. Games need to be made from the ground up for VR. Anyone going into VR thinking they're going to be playing Call of Duty shouldn't even bother.
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Morpheus 2016 Release - How does Sony successfully launch their VR platform?
- Thread starter James Sawyer Ford
- Start date
He's already failed if he's trying to port an existing AAA into VR in the first place. Games need to be made from the ground up for VR. Anyone going into VR thinking they're going to be playing Call of Duty shouldn't even bother.
I dont want to bomb the party here but..
I just cant see that actually happen from a realtistic point of view. Some people even talking about AAA Title here for a very high risk projekt.
The big studios didn't see the mobile gaming boom coming and likewise don't seem especially switched on to the potential VR boom coming.
If smaller, more adventurous devs want to make the new wave of software then so be it. I know that when I experience a game like No Man's Sky in VR and get to inhabit that world, the enticement of playing a new Assassins Creed game, no matter how pretty it looks, will be mightily diminished. I'll be craving another VR experience to dive in to. If they don't see it coming and aren't actively developing software for VR I expect them to be caught with their pants down.
googleplex
Member
This is also not true.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
So my question, and it might bring some hate my way, is why do people think Sony will put serious resources and actually develop an AAA game around Morpheus when they didn't do so for the Move?
His only point is that there won't be as much content for something like morpheus than there would be on Occulus, it's very easy to understand what he's trying to say. He's saying games on pc will be able to be patched with occulus support far easier if it ends up taking off. In fact I'm sure you'll see plenty of games on PC supporting morpheus.
Alright I'll believe it when I see it.
The pc is different in that Aspect. You can add VR support without ease. Just put a sticker on the game "Warning the VR mode of this Game Requires a shitload of Power" problem solved.
hodayathink
Member
But even if the developer does that, the issue stated in that post about spending the money to implement the VR stuff in the engine still exists. It might not be as much money because you don't need to spend as much time optimizing the code, but it's not like the PC VR version of whatever game it is is going to develop itself.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Games
Price
Marketing
In that order. I do think if it launches along with No Man's Sky that could be a killer app indeed. Make it $199 with NMS and a demo pack, and have about 20-30 games in the first 6 months that support it.
Price
Marketing
In that order. I do think if it launches along with No Man's Sky that could be a killer app indeed. Make it $199 with NMS and a demo pack, and have about 20-30 games in the first 6 months that support it.
Callibretto
Member
Sony actually put a decent resource for Move. they had external developer work on exclusive move games, made deal with third party to add move support on their games, and many of their first party games from lbp, socom, resistance, mag have move support. yeah sure ND didn't support Move, but it's expected that not all dev will want to make move games. Does it really have to be all ot nothing? VR is not meant to replace gaming as we know it. It's there to expand gaming variety.
It's a shame that Move is not successful enough that third party dev is not willing to support it without Sony money. And just like Vita, we can't realistically expect Sony to keep throwing away money paying dev to support Move. The platform had to stand on it's own to so that Sony cam still make money. It's bussiness after all.
Vita in the end actually have solid suport from indies. We can all hope that Morpheous will be similar at least.
loaf of bread
Member
They designed the Move FOR Morpheus from the start. VR was always their plan.
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
This thing seems pricey.
In its current form, no. It's a 30FPS game, which Shu is on the record as saying it made him feel nauseous when he attempted to play it through a Morpheus.
I have no doubt that the engine behind DC can be made to run at 60fps, it just won't have the level of detail it currently has texture wise and so on...which shouldn't be an issue since lighting and AA seem to be the big things when it comes to VR, with 2D textures not working especially well.
People are missing a big part here. Sony doesnt have to invest a lot of money for games. They can piggy back off the valve, facebook, samsung etc devices.
Surely any game built for Samsung VR will run on ps4. Games built for VR on PC shouldnt have to make that many cut backs to run on ps4. Given the PC vr kit are going to be running 1440p+ at 75fps. They just cant go crazy with gfx.
The biggest part is price. They need it at $199.
Yep.
Surely any game built for Samsung VR will run on ps4. Games built for VR on PC shouldnt have to make that many cut backs to run on ps4. Given the PC vr kit are going to be running 1440p+ at 75fps. They just cant go crazy with gfx.
The biggest part is price. They need it at $199.
Yep.
Callibretto
Member
The problem is what did you get for $200. If it's $200 just for the headset and there are hidden cost for camera and ps move controller, than I don't think it's gonna be successful.
They should try to get $200 with camera and at least 1 move Cpntroller.
They should try to get $200 with camera and at least 1 move Cpntroller.
googleplex
Member
Which was my point. Lighting and AA will be more important graphically then textures. In VR, your brain will except simple shaded polygons are "real" objects as long as you frame rate is high, head tracking is on point.
With a strong enough PC though that's an option. That won't work with the PS4 and Sony will have to find a way to get content that attracts other crowds to the device.
PC will obviously lead the VR charge because it'll be where companies can experiment with their products more and release games that offer a VR mode without having to build the game entirely around a market in its infancy. Sure they're be a fair amount of games that will be developed around VR and more importantly the PS4 to take advantage of the hardware the best they can but how many companies are willing to target an expensive peripheral rather than just being able to add support to the minority of players?
thunder_snail
Member
Having VR as an afterthought for games designed primarily for traditional displays will kill the VR momentum. Most traditional games will actually feel worse on VR.
PC will lead with the latest technology and experimentations as always but I can't see PC leading mainstream VR without some quality VR porn.
The key to making it mainstream is to make it :
1) buy (cheap)
2) plug
3) experience
Unfortunately, PCs won't be able to provide that easily due to VR requiring quite a bit of performance and an average person not being able to meet that requirement. There's a reason the best and most played PC exclusives are designed to run well enough on integrated graphics afterall.
the normal ps4 controller will work just fine. having one move controller doesnt seem like it would help you. Seems like you need one for each hand.
Mobile might lead the VR market. Then there is no problem running those games at 1080p @ 120 fps on ps4!!!
CrazedProfessional
Member
I think Sony will market it like the Vita. A "strong" initial show of support followed by NOTHING. I don't know how it can be successful though without knowing the full lineup.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
I'm not sure that's true, nor does it really help your case. Motion controls don't require VR and Sony's lack of commitment to their motion control setup wasn't just them playing the long game and waiting for their VR rig to be release. They just didn't give it much support. Yeah it had functionality in some of their games, but their ground up Move games were budget titles, yet people think this will change with the Morpheus (where simply adding VR functionality to other titles probably won't even be as easy as Move functionality)
hodayathink
Member
You say that like Microsoft's "ground up" Kinect games weren't budget titles. The biggest difference between the two was that Microsoft had a better idea of what to do outside of games with their peripheral, and a half a billion dollar marketing campaign.
Callibretto
Member
Sony pulled out support for vita because consumer didn't buy it even when Sony is "strongly" supporting it. They can't keep throwing money forever. Same with morpheous. Sony will do their part supporting vr, but if there's simply no audience for it to be a healthy platform where indies or third party dev willingly support it too without expecting Sony to pay the bill, than what's the point pf vr for Sony in the first place.
I dont want to bomb the party here but..
I just cant see that actually happen from a realtistic point of view. Some people even talking about AAA Title here for a very high risk projekt.
I'm not expecting the VR revolution (in terms of software) to be pushed by major publishers with AAA titles anyway, i don't think anybody is, either.
If the tech catches on, it'll be through other means, be it something like Minecraft, or even something not directly gaming related.
The flip side of that is - if Vive and oculus cme out at $400, it gives permissions for Sony to charge that initially for early adopters, as it sets a price expectation. And if there is no competition on xbox 1, plus a potential lack of compelling content, they can sell at a slightly higher price as a softish launch.
Even without huge sales, the device itself and the buzz around VR generally will bring a halo effect to Ps4
Do you need to add another warning saying "there is no way we as developers can control the framerate on such an open platform, so you'll need even more power to give you a safety buffer to ensure you don't drop frames".
That edit post is a bit strange. 'Pushing the consoles to their limits' is such a AAA PR phrase, it almost feels old fashioned comoared to the approach you'll need to take for VR - on all platforms, that isn't unique to PC. You can't simply ignore the additional power needs and assume your target market will brute force it for you. PC VR developers are going to have to focus on efficiency and avoiding framerate spikes too.
Dirtyshubb
Member
I think most people have covered what the main things Sony need to do in order to get the most of the Morpheus launch:
Price Cant be too expensive, im thinking £250 give or take would be a good starting point. People using the But.but.but. you have to buy a console too, its so expensive line arent factoring in that by the time Morpheus comes out the PS4 will most likely have at least 30 million owners who will already have the console paid for and so its a non issue. Also Sony know that they cant overprice it otherwise it will be destined to fail.
Hands on They need to get the average Joe to try this out because anyone who has tried VR knows that thinking you know what the experience is like and actually knowing are 2 totally different things.
Games Having some great software is key to getting people to wanting to play, you have something addictive or just really unique and engaging and they will be onto a winner.
Name I have been thinking about it and I honestly think that Sony could benefit from simply naming it Playstation VR. The main reason for this is that it instantly gets across what the device is rather than cause confusion like the PS Vita did (Should have named it PSP2) or the Wii U (Is it an add on?).
On a separate note, VR threads on Gaf seem to be another where many just cant see things from the mainstream perspective and can only think of from their own.
The main thing I keep reading from people who cant wrap their head around Morpheus being successful is that it either needs to be PC compatible or that the PC alternatives will do much better.
Anecdotal I know but I know literarily 1 person who owns a PC that might be capable of using the Rift et al and thats only because he decided to get back into gaming after 20 years due to Elite Dangerous and even that doesnt run 100% perfect for him. A lot of Gaf seem to put way too much emphasis on the popularity of PC as a platform. Dont get me wrong, it does of course do amazingly well and is the most popular gaming platform today (Apart from mobile I suppose) but when you are talking about the people who have a rig that is up to scratch to take on VR (And what Occulus and Valve are proposing) im willing to bet its a lot smaller sample size.
With the Morpheus you have none of those worries, the barrier for entry is do you own a PS4? rather than Does your PC have these particular specs?. Also you have to take into consideration that for something like VR, youre going to want to plug it in and play instantly with no concerns of getting performance right or changing settings etc. which I can imagine is going to not be 100% smooth sailing for many PC VR gaming experiences.
After the PS4 I have faith that Sony realise the pitfalls involved in releasing a platform and what needs to be done to avoid those and as such they are going to do everything they can to make the Morpheus a successful launch, especially considering they have come out and said that they consider the relase of Morpheus as a whole new platform for them. I feel that Morpheus will (As long as something terrible doesnt happen) be the clear winner out of all the platforms. The only other option I can see is a mobile phone variant that accepts any modern Smart phone and thus has the wide appeal reach to draw people in without being limited to one particular brand such as the Samsung version.
Price Cant be too expensive, im thinking £250 give or take would be a good starting point. People using the But.but.but. you have to buy a console too, its so expensive line arent factoring in that by the time Morpheus comes out the PS4 will most likely have at least 30 million owners who will already have the console paid for and so its a non issue. Also Sony know that they cant overprice it otherwise it will be destined to fail.
Hands on They need to get the average Joe to try this out because anyone who has tried VR knows that thinking you know what the experience is like and actually knowing are 2 totally different things.
Games Having some great software is key to getting people to wanting to play, you have something addictive or just really unique and engaging and they will be onto a winner.
Name I have been thinking about it and I honestly think that Sony could benefit from simply naming it Playstation VR. The main reason for this is that it instantly gets across what the device is rather than cause confusion like the PS Vita did (Should have named it PSP2) or the Wii U (Is it an add on?).
On a separate note, VR threads on Gaf seem to be another where many just cant see things from the mainstream perspective and can only think of from their own.
The main thing I keep reading from people who cant wrap their head around Morpheus being successful is that it either needs to be PC compatible or that the PC alternatives will do much better.
Anecdotal I know but I know literarily 1 person who owns a PC that might be capable of using the Rift et al and thats only because he decided to get back into gaming after 20 years due to Elite Dangerous and even that doesnt run 100% perfect for him. A lot of Gaf seem to put way too much emphasis on the popularity of PC as a platform. Dont get me wrong, it does of course do amazingly well and is the most popular gaming platform today (Apart from mobile I suppose) but when you are talking about the people who have a rig that is up to scratch to take on VR (And what Occulus and Valve are proposing) im willing to bet its a lot smaller sample size.
With the Morpheus you have none of those worries, the barrier for entry is do you own a PS4? rather than Does your PC have these particular specs?. Also you have to take into consideration that for something like VR, youre going to want to plug it in and play instantly with no concerns of getting performance right or changing settings etc. which I can imagine is going to not be 100% smooth sailing for many PC VR gaming experiences.
After the PS4 I have faith that Sony realise the pitfalls involved in releasing a platform and what needs to be done to avoid those and as such they are going to do everything they can to make the Morpheus a successful launch, especially considering they have come out and said that they consider the relase of Morpheus as a whole new platform for them. I feel that Morpheus will (As long as something terrible doesnt happen) be the clear winner out of all the platforms. The only other option I can see is a mobile phone variant that accepts any modern Smart phone and thus has the wide appeal reach to draw people in without being limited to one particular brand such as the Samsung version.
This article has some off screen shots of demos, and some of the ones we've seen less of like The Deep:
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/017/1017841/
The updated demo of The Deep looks quite nice, shame we don't have any video of it.
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/017/1017841/
The updated demo of The Deep looks quite nice, shame we don't have any video of it.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Not sure competition matters to Sony. They won't let any other VR to work on the PS4. A 250$ price for the set and 180$ for just Morpheus would be the sweet spot if they could get it IMO.
I hope they keep the name and have a more slick setup for the controllers when it finally releases. Then have the actor that plays Morpheus in the Matrix do the ads for it. It would fit perfectly as an ad campaign.
crazygambit
Member
I agree on the pricepoint, I also think it will be $199, but for VR I'd actually prefer a bunch of small "tech demo" like experiences.
Something like a rollercoaster ride, skydiving, basically all the stuff they've previously shown could be a compelling launch bundle with maybe some new stuff thrown and it could be very attractive since it's VR.
Basically I want as many new experiences as possible, even if those experiences are smaller.
Callibretto
Member
If the heist is a full game, it'd be linear cinematic onrail roller coaster experience filled with little 'tech demo' in various situation. Same with The Deep underwater demo.
And it'll probably get massacred in reviews just like The Order unlessbit's sold for cheap or free.
In the Elite: Dangerous thread somebody posted that them porting the game to PS4 after the Xbone eclusivity could fall in line with the Morpheus release. If that could happen the platform would have instant credibility.
What Sony needs to avoid is the small game/tech demo/update strategy they had with Move. Morpheus needs a big game for the core consumer to launch successfully, preferably a game that is new to the platform, not just a Morpheus upgrade of old games.
What Sony needs to avoid is the small game/tech demo/update strategy they had with Move. Morpheus needs a big game for the core consumer to launch successfully, preferably a game that is new to the platform, not just a Morpheus upgrade of old games.
……forgetit
Member
It needs to have strong support and fly under $100. Also there needs to be a bundle with the PlayStation camera that can hit above $100. Actually restock move controllers obviously. Oh, and release a ps4 bundle for $400. Drop the base ps4 to $300.
Why do people always say "No Man's Sky"?
That game is probably not even running at 60FPS on Playstaiton 4.....there's no way it's getting to the effective 120FPS performance needed for Morpheus.
Games will have to be written specifically for the device. You can't just retrofit VR support onto current projects. I think that will be its downfall -- there's not enough time between now and next year to put out some really stunning games.
Minecraft would be something of a coup and it could run at 120fps. Though I would be surprised as hell if Microsoft allowed Mojang to do Sony any favors.
That game is probably not even running at 60FPS on Playstaiton 4.....there's no way it's getting to the effective 120FPS performance needed for Morpheus.
Games will have to be written specifically for the device. You can't just retrofit VR support onto current projects. I think that will be its downfall -- there's not enough time between now and next year to put out some really stunning games.
Minecraft would be something of a coup and it could run at 120fps. Though I would be surprised as hell if Microsoft allowed Mojang to do Sony any favors.
Because the game is still being worked on and can be tailored to VR. Because they have a Morpheus kit. Because they tweeted at one point they were going to show a VR demo.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Price
Price
Price
Price
Price
Well we already know that's not happening, games have to be made for VR, not have VR tacked on. But I don't agree with your premise that all games need to be able to use VR. VR is a new platform, the people buying it will be buying it to play games made for it. Games will be labeled as Sony VR. You are right though that there needs to be a lot of games being made for this thing. If they only release a game now and then and 3rd parties aren't supporting it, it's dead in the water. They can't treat this like they treat most of their accessories. They need to treat it like the platform that it is.
If its to be treated as a new Sony platform...
Well, Sony doesn't have great history with trying to "support" multiple "platforms." Unless they think they can just leave it to 3rd parties and indies...but that hasn't worked in the past either.
I don't have a dog in this fight though. I'll just sit back and observe.
I hope someones making one of those themepark games for VR, build and explore your own park, endless hours of fun.
Maybe they mean it cant be done without a pretty significant downgrade.
Maybe they mean it cant be done without a pretty significant downgrade.
I'd love for Sony to attempt and do "Nintendoland" correctly, making a virtual Sony theme park.
crazygambit
Member
Only if it releases at $60. If you bundle all those small demos on a $40 package it could be a decent value. Hell they could even make them available to download for free. I would be pretty pleased with that.
Betta Lines
Member
If there's one thing that retrofits very well, it's stuff with cockpits. The walking around the planets stuff might not be so hot, but the cockpit stuff is ideal. Space simulation is particularly awe-inspiring in VR. And they can probably get away with it being 60fps (with their 120Hz output technique). Sony are recommending 60 as the minimum, so they must be satisfied with the results. I don't know what framerate NMS was targeting, but it never struck me as a graphical powerhouse. It's striking and vibrant, but in terms of fidelity and effects, it's not outstanding. I'd expect it to be a 60fps game. The procedural content generation might give it better performance than having to access big chunks of asset data too.