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Morpheus 2016 Release - How does Sony successfully launch their VR platform?
- Thread starter James Sawyer Ford
- Start date
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I was considering the idea that they would be willing to sell Morpheus at a loss as they are apparently making a profit on the PS4 hardware, are they not?
Either way I'm also expecting $199-299. Maybe $199 for just the headset for those who already own camera/move wands.
Either way I'm also expecting $199-299. Maybe $199 for just the headset for those who already own camera/move wands.
They've already specced too high IMO. Even if they get the headset down to $200-250, if the full experience requires a PS4 and Move - the whole thing is hamstrung by cost of entry.
The most successful, in terms of fast, widespread adoption - will be whoever offers the cheapest, easily accessible implementation. People here poo poo Mobile + VR, but those solutions stand the best chance of successful adoption IMO.
To summarise and actually answer the OP - I think Sony has to absorb some of the cost or come up with creative ways to make it more affordable. Heavy discounts for PS+ contracts, bundle with devices, maybe even phones and PS3, try the razors and blades model on it.
The best way to market it and get people to try it would be to put it in cinema lobbies and arcades, consumer electronics shops, malls - wherever people are who might be even remotely interested.
I almost think it would be better to sit on the product until the next round of consoles and launch with one of those, but its obvious that their competitors aren't going to sit around and wait.
The most successful, in terms of fast, widespread adoption - will be whoever offers the cheapest, easily accessible implementation. People here poo poo Mobile + VR, but those solutions stand the best chance of successful adoption IMO.
To summarise and actually answer the OP - I think Sony has to absorb some of the cost or come up with creative ways to make it more affordable. Heavy discounts for PS+ contracts, bundle with devices, maybe even phones and PS3, try the razors and blades model on it.
The best way to market it and get people to try it would be to put it in cinema lobbies and arcades, consumer electronics shops, malls - wherever people are who might be even remotely interested.
I almost think it would be better to sit on the product until the next round of consoles and launch with one of those, but its obvious that their competitors aren't going to sit around and wait.
Sidewinder
Member
Yes:
"More details and games at E3"
http://live.arstechnica.com/sony-project-morpheus-event-liveblog-gdc-2015/
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Heh, imagine if Sony released a demo of Morpheus at retail outlets for Holiday 2015 and had a demo of Media Molecule's next game?
I wonder if that would give me fall 1996 vibes like the N64. That was the last time I remember actively going to a store to try something out, and my mind was blown at the time...I must have gone to Toys R' Us a dozen times leading up to launch just to try out Mario 64
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I think you're drastically over thinking the cost of the morpheus. The method at which it tracks is incredibly simple and cheap, and will deliver a very compelling experience with great accuracy (as long as you're within the camera sight of course
). The most expensive part of the morpheus experience will be the HMD, and since Sony already manufactures TV's, I'm sure they can use a ton of assets in house, and sell it for near cost.
Not necessarily a negative outlook on the prospect but more a wait and see.
I think personally I would need a larger scale game experience rather than multiple bite sized ones to get me on board.
Lets wait and see I guess.
Industrialist
Member
Games and price.
That's it.
Oh, and continued support. Not the sort of lackluster support that stuff like Move, Wonderbook, or the various cameras (PS2, PS3, even PS4) got. Folks laid out their money and watched as those things gathered dust after the first week.
They need to pick a horse and back it, rather than trying to bet on everything and hoping something pays off. It would be nice if they didn't release Morpheus and then announce that they're working on a new version twenty minutes later, too.
That's it.
Oh, and continued support. Not the sort of lackluster support that stuff like Move, Wonderbook, or the various cameras (PS2, PS3, even PS4) got. Folks laid out their money and watched as those things gathered dust after the first week.
They need to pick a horse and back it, rather than trying to bet on everything and hoping something pays off. It would be nice if they didn't release Morpheus and then announce that they're working on a new version twenty minutes later, too.
Sidewinder
Member
A new Morpheus will definitely not see the light of day before the PS5 launches, well maybe a cheaper lighter revision down the line if it's a massive success.
I've got the camera and 1 move controller, if I see some dirt cheap new or used move/nav controller I'll probably buy one.
Chuck Norris
Banned
What is the actual technology that would cost this to be very expensive? As far as I can tell it's just two small and not-particularly-high-res screens with high refresh rates that have been built into a plastic head casing. PS4 and the camera are doing all the heavy lifting
I could see it being much cheaper than expected, especially if Sony is swallowing R&D costs
I could see it being much cheaper than expected, especially if Sony is swallowing R&D costs
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Doesn't the capacitive touch screen add significantly to the cost of phone displays, as well?
Morpheus won't need that.
Sidewinder
Member
At least we know that Evolution played around with Morpheus and a Driveclub VR build. So who knows, maybe they'll make a special VR edition next year.
fastest finger
Member
New, innovative software is obviously crucial, but Sony should also work with devs to make sure as many existing games support Morpheus as possible, as will (should) be the case with Project CARS. War Thunder and Surgery Simulator. Morpheus will be a much easier sell if gamers already have a ready made library of VR games sitting on their HDDs when it launches.
Playstation Vue headset $200
Playstation Vue Bundle (headset + Camera + Move) $300
Everything Bundle (PS4 + Vue + Camera + Move) $599.99
I also feel that they will launch a Beta Program after GDC '16 with units going on sale then, followed by a consumer launch in the fall in time for the holiday shopping season.
Playstation Vue Bundle (headset + Camera + Move) $300
Everything Bundle (PS4 + Vue + Camera + Move) $599.99
I also feel that they will launch a Beta Program after GDC '16 with units going on sale then, followed by a consumer launch in the fall in time for the holiday shopping season.
Pestilence11
Member
They need a lot of hands on events and/or demo stations in places like Best Buy, swallow some cost in the price and have a killer app at launch.
loaf of bread
Member
Just so you know, Playstation Vue is already taken.
https://gigaom.com/2015/01/28/a-sneak-peek-at-sonys-playstation-vue-internet-tv-service/
Also they already confirmed release for first half of 2016.
I have to see how they show support for the headset this coming E3, and how much they show of it. Sony doesn't have a good track record for supporting their add-ons so I refuse to believe that will change now. They already have a huge lead on the other two consoles, so they will price to make profit moreso than getting more users to their platform.
In my eyes, PS4 doesn't have any compelling games for it, yet (I'm hoping they come with some that will give me a reason to buy one), so having them come out with this so early doesn't give me a better reason to get a PS4.
The price will definitely be a huge factor, probably the biggest. The games will be second, and the amount of games can't be ignored either. We'll see what they show at E3 but honestly, I'm not thinking I will be blown away. They definitely need to have kiosks at stores to show off the thing, unlike showing videos, you can't show on a screen how VR looks like, people have to experience it.
In my eyes, PS4 doesn't have any compelling games for it, yet (I'm hoping they come with some that will give me a reason to buy one), so having them come out with this so early doesn't give me a better reason to get a PS4.
The price will definitely be a huge factor, probably the biggest. The games will be second, and the amount of games can't be ignored either. We'll see what they show at E3 but honestly, I'm not thinking I will be blown away. They definitely need to have kiosks at stores to show off the thing, unlike showing videos, you can't show on a screen how VR looks like, people have to experience it.
I don't think a mini game/tech demo collection is going to be sufficient as a killer app for this thing. It certainly won't be enough for me to buy one.
I think, unlike motion controls, VR has a great potential for use in traditional 'hardcore' games. These are some of the games that would constitute a kill app, at least for me:
A new Colony Wars. Space sims and VR seem made for each other, and with the action all taking place (not on planets like No Man's sky) the should be able to make a great looking game running at 120Hz.
I think we are due for a new Wipeout too. This would be fun, but I can imagine a lot of people puking as a result of this...
I think a VR Gran Turismo would bring Morpheus to really wide audience, but I doubt it could be done in a timely manner, at least for launch.
As for 'new' types of experiences that use the Playstation Move, I would really like to see something like Adr1ft in VR that could be amazing.
There is also a Sony project that has had a difficult development, that is now being worked on 'under completely new conditions'. If those completely new conditions are Morpheous and Move, then a lot of jaded old Gafers will lose their shit. If this project is still happening, I wouldn't be surprised if we first hear about it again when the Morpheous launch line up is revealed.
I don't think we will see much (or any) Morpheous support for existing PS4 games. Those game weren't designed for VR and unlike PC games you can't just throw more power at them to improve the framerate, so I wouldn't hold your breath for No Man's Sky support - Although that would be the best thing ever.
I wouldn't be surprised if we did see a few 'VR Remasters' of last gen games though, and prehaps current gen gamess, but I doubt we'll get support via patches.
All that said, I think you will still need some tech demo style software that people can get the gist of at an instore demo kiosk, just to demonstrate the thing works and is awesome.
I think, unlike motion controls, VR has a great potential for use in traditional 'hardcore' games. These are some of the games that would constitute a kill app, at least for me:
A new Colony Wars. Space sims and VR seem made for each other, and with the action all taking place (not on planets like No Man's sky) the should be able to make a great looking game running at 120Hz.
I think we are due for a new Wipeout too. This would be fun, but I can imagine a lot of people puking as a result of this...
I think a VR Gran Turismo would bring Morpheus to really wide audience, but I doubt it could be done in a timely manner, at least for launch.
As for 'new' types of experiences that use the Playstation Move, I would really like to see something like Adr1ft in VR that could be amazing.
There is also a Sony project that has had a difficult development, that is now being worked on 'under completely new conditions'. If those completely new conditions are Morpheous and Move, then a lot of jaded old Gafers will lose their shit. If this project is still happening, I wouldn't be surprised if we first hear about it again when the Morpheous launch line up is revealed.
I don't think we will see much (or any) Morpheous support for existing PS4 games. Those game weren't designed for VR and unlike PC games you can't just throw more power at them to improve the framerate, so I wouldn't hold your breath for No Man's Sky support - Although that would be the best thing ever.
I wouldn't be surprised if we did see a few 'VR Remasters' of last gen games though, and prehaps current gen gamess, but I doubt we'll get support via patches.
All that said, I think you will still need some tech demo style software that people can get the gist of at an instore demo kiosk, just to demonstrate the thing works and is awesome.
Natureboy99
Banned
Dammit, thats why it sounded so good in my head!
how bout Playstation Lux or Playstation Portal?
Also i know they said first half of 2016 but delays can happen and a beta launch is still a launch. hardware sales in Q1 are never ideal compared to Q3
eighty(one)
Member
Natureboy99
Banned
It's going to be Playstation VeeR .
James Sawyer Ford
Member
VR and motion are inseparable. A VR headset is essentially a first person motion device.
I agree that flying/driving/minecraft games need to be done.
In fact, Media Molecule's next title is probably a minecraft killer. The sports title is just a cheap/easy showcase to pack in and show the potential.
ThatStupidLion
Member
it needs to launch with a new exclusive IP, an already established and big IP, and a ton of the software out there already needs to implement it, with free VR patches... maybe they could relaunch some titles as 1.5 editions with extra VR content etc.
the fact that GTAV incorporated first person view tells me they are aiming to make it morpheus compatible.
aside from needing a large library, it really needs that one game that hooks everyone and sells it to the masses.... if sony gives me a reason to force my family to try it at the holidays.. it will sell buckets.
obiously a pack-in game is required.
the fact that GTAV incorporated first person view tells me they are aiming to make it morpheus compatible.
aside from needing a large library, it really needs that one game that hooks everyone and sells it to the masses.... if sony gives me a reason to force my family to try it at the holidays.. it will sell buckets.
obiously a pack-in game is required.
Retailing and bundeling morpheus will be tricky.
Some users have move and the camera, some the eye but not move, some move, but not the camera, some have neither. You would need 4 skus to satisfy every one. i hink they will offer one version barebones and one with cam and move. seems the most sensible thing to do.
Some users have move and the camera, some the eye but not move, some move, but not the camera, some have neither. You would need 4 skus to satisfy every one. i hink they will offer one version barebones and one with cam and move. seems the most sensible thing to do.
DXLelouch153
Banned
make Dark Souls 3 VR
include a ULA so no one sues for potential heart attacks
profit?
include a ULA so no one sues for potential heart attacks
profit?
People are being a bit ridiculous with the price projections.
$500 for a PS4 bundle? Are you serious?
That would be the head set, $50 camera, $50 Move and a demo disc all for only $200 more(if the PS4 is $300 by that time).
Things like the camera and Move controller are free. And The Heist demo used 2 Move controllers.
Are people really expecting Sony to go back to massive losses on hardware again?
Yeah, a price that's too high will drive people away but selling for a loss would be devastating to Sony.
$500 for a PS4 bundle? Are you serious?
That would be the head set, $50 camera, $50 Move and a demo disc all for only $200 more(if the PS4 is $300 by that time).
Things like the camera and Move controller are free. And The Heist demo used 2 Move controllers.
Are people really expecting Sony to go back to massive losses on hardware again?
Yeah, a price that's too high will drive people away but selling for a loss would be devastating to Sony.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Morpheus is fine as a project name, but I can't imagine it'll fly in the real world. Sony are about avoiding conflict with their products and calling their VR headset Morpheus which as a clear nod to The Matrix opens for a brand dispute with Warner Bros. Especially if they ever chose to release a PS Home styled bit of software.
PlayStation Reality works a lot more. Says a lot more about what it's trying to be.
PlayStation Reality works a lot more. Says a lot more about what it's trying to be.
Tidus_Great
Banned
Price - 199
pack in a game that shows off the tech like Wii Sports did for Wii
make the final product weigh as little as possible and be as small as possible, people dont want a heavy visor
if they do that odds of success are still 50/50 lol. I just don't think the common consumer wants to wear a headset.
pack in a game that shows off the tech like Wii Sports did for Wii
make the final product weigh as little as possible and be as small as possible, people dont want a heavy visor
if they do that odds of success are still 50/50 lol. I just don't think the common consumer wants to wear a headset.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Sony's Yoshida on Project Morpheus: 'Price has not been driving our development process' (Polygon)
It sounds like Yosp is expecting it to be a high cost of entry, noting that the price should come down over time, supported by a lower cost PS4.
It sounds like Yosp is expecting it to be a high cost of entry, noting that the price should come down over time, supported by a lower cost PS4.
Driveclub and GT at 120fps? Isn't 90hz the absolute minimum, for believable VR?
And we're talking in stereoscopic 3d.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
It's not a nod to The Matrix as much as Morpheus is the god of dreams.
I think it's a perfect name. PlayStation Reality sounds boring.
AstroNut325
Member
If they truly want to create an impact... partner with EA and have Madden 2016 and FIFA 2016 get made with VR from start to finish.
And for the hardcore... The Last Guardian as their flagship launch exclusive.
And for the hardcore... The Last Guardian as their flagship launch exclusive.
vpance
Member
Camera and move don't cost that much to make, maybe like $30 - 40 combined I believe.
A $199 bundle with NMS at a $20-30 loss could be feasible. Something like $249 would be more probable though.
loaf of bread
Member
Thats not really what he's saying. He's saying they want to make sure they're delivering a quality product first and foremost and not cutting corners to lower the price.
I agree. The mini-game model isn't a bad one, giving a number of varied but small experiences for people to try (especially grandma, mum, dad, etc), but as above sports isn't playing to the strengths of VR, plus it might also make people think, oh, this is just another Wii but with a helmet, which is decidedly not the impression you want to give.
Fortunately, with several other major players pushing VR at the same time, Morpheus (as I agree it should be named - it works well, what with the other random-ass names like Vive and Oculus Rift FFS, far better than some other crap like 'Playstation Reality', shudder) is likely to float up on the VR tide so it should be much easier for Sony that it would be if launching Morpheus alone.
They could dearly do with a game (or experience - what they're selling first and foremost is virtual reality, not games, although of course games are where much of the focus will be) that shows off the strengths of VR without slavishly copying what has been done before, or at least doing it in an innovative or different way. A tall order, but a console VR system arguably needs that 'new' more than a PC-based one does. I could see The Witness in some ways being an excellent place to start for many people in VR - a stunning environment full of little places to explore with no stress and puzzles to get your teeth into. The only thing wrong with it is it's called The Witness. Nothing's perfect.
As for price, I don't think it will be overly expensive (under $300 for base model, probably less), but as it's a system that requires several pieces, they can always say Get Playstation Morpheus from as little as $249!* Where the asterisk adds: Camera $50, Move controllers $50. Marketing.
Plus of course if people see Vive at $399, Oculus at $349, Morpheus at $299, it begins to look like a much better deal in that light.
Edit: I don't see racing games appearing in the initial wave. It's too likely to make early adopters and granny puke up on first trying VR - Sony are going to avoid that like the plague until people start getting their heads around what VR is and how it works. That's one reason why fast motion might not be a big thing initially, although that doesn't mean sports are out, just applied with caution.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
All I want is to be able to play No Man's Sky, ABZU and RiME with the damn thing and I'm sold.
EDIT:
Assuming ofc it can double as a regular HMD like their HMZ-T2.
EDIT:
Assuming ofc it can double as a regular HMD like their HMZ-T2.
The Heist demo is running at 60fps time warped to 120fps and it seems like it's been the most impressive Morpheus demo of the bunch. I don't think DC will happen, but I'm willing to bet that VR GT is a certainty.
loaf of bread
Member
Project CARS is also going to have Morpheus support
I personally will not be an early adopter. I've seen Move, Vita support not working out as great as I hoped.
If Sony are smart they would make Media Molecule New IP the new Minecraft, market No Man's Sky well with Morpheus Support. Have a Morpheus first person option for the next Gran Turismo. Work with Rockstar and market GTAV first person mode with Morpheus Support. Also try and have a decent pack in game that unique and quite revolutionary. Similar to Wii Sports, perhaps Zindagi or Sony London can do this.
If Sony are smart they would make Media Molecule New IP the new Minecraft, market No Man's Sky well with Morpheus Support. Have a Morpheus first person option for the next Gran Turismo. Work with Rockstar and market GTAV first person mode with Morpheus Support. Also try and have a decent pack in game that unique and quite revolutionary. Similar to Wii Sports, perhaps Zindagi or Sony London can do this.
Affordable price, between 200-300$.
Games, games and games at launch.
Lots of various bundles.
Both new and old, to find a nice balance in bundles prices.
MM, Bend and Sony London new IP, both casual and hardcore. GT7 and Next Killzone too. Hardline, Driveclub, Killzone ShadowFall, Thief, Destiny and Destiny 2, COD, BF, Star Wars Battlefront, Mirror's Edge, Deus Ex and a shitload of indies like NMS, The Witness and so on.
Games, games and games at launch.
Lots of various bundles.
Both new and old, to find a nice balance in bundles prices.
MM, Bend and Sony London new IP, both casual and hardcore. GT7 and Next Killzone too. Hardline, Driveclub, Killzone ShadowFall, Thief, Destiny and Destiny 2, COD, BF, Star Wars Battlefront, Mirror's Edge, Deus Ex and a shitload of indies like NMS, The Witness and so on.