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[deriks]

There is some weird stuff on this... You can easily be at Gordon's side, but the thing could be not really that

The contract with him was to do some songs in so much time, and at the time they said that he couldn't do all the material, that's why they hired another guy. Mick Gordon is known for being meticulous about what he does, spending who knows how much time to make a song and kind of taking pride in it. As annoying as it is to charge an artist to finish his art, we live in a world with commitments, so there's no point in whining if that deadline isn't reached... especially when you get even more time and that isn't reached either. Don't be a bitch

Of course, things are still hazy and nothing prevents id from being a ultimate jerk, just paying Gordon to keep quiet and that's it. The thing is that it doesn't help when a guy goes on the internet to release that kind of information after "the momentum", and doesn't help even more if you could just take the legal stuff and this information could come as a normal journalistic thing that comes by consequence of the stuff, not by the source

Great game and great OST thou

 

[Thirty7ven]

Sounds like a complete shithouse over there at ID, they should fire the management team and preserve this historic studio.

Also this just reaffirms my beliefs that something went really wrong during Eternal development, I loved the previous one but hated that one just completely different feel.

 

[Don Carlo]

Damm this guy is fire

 

[Ballthyrm]

I think this whole saga just highlight how hard it is to be a Freelance operator working with big corporations.
They will nickel-and-dime you all of the way and use the full extent of the law to fuck you over.

I hope Mick has learned from his ordeal to get himself a good contract lawyer and not sell himself that short ever again.

 

[Azurro]

He obviously took the hush money, spent it and is now telling us the trurh

I read the response, it's because the legal mediation process took very long and didn't arrive to an agreement. The composer didn't want to agree to the six figure payout since it involved taking the blame for Bethesda's mismanagement.

 

[PhoenixTank]

There is some weird stuff on this... You can easily be at Gordon's side, but the thing could be not really that

The contract with him was to do some songs in so much time, and at the time they said that he couldn't do all the material, that's why they hired another guy. Mick Gordon is known for being meticulous about what he does, spending who knows how much time to make a song and kind of taking pride in it. As annoying as it is to charge an artist to finish his art, we live in a world with commitments, so there's no point in whining if that deadline isn't reached... especially when you get even more time and that isn't reached either. Don't be a bitch

Mick reached out repeatedly to change the contract when it looked like it was impossible to achieve in the timeframe.
He also repeatedly requested information on direction, level designs and so on to avoid guesswork.
Even with guesswork to meet deadlines, id still weren't approving work he had done. Can't bitch that "work is too slow & we don't like this work" AND not help the guy actually with direction & resources for him so he can make work that you like.
They liked his rejected work enough to use almost all of it IIRC, but not enough to approve it and pay the man.
Two mandated 100% finished tracks every month is madness when you don't have a set basis, theme, stable game or allowances for illness, vacations etc. Smells of development sprints.

 

[OGM_Madness]

There is some weird stuff on this... You can easily be at Gordon's side, but the thing could be not really that

The contract with him was to do some songs in so much time, and at the time they said that he couldn't do all the material, that's why they hired another guy. Mick Gordon is known for being meticulous about what he does, spending who knows how much time to make a song and kind of taking pride in it. As annoying as it is to charge an artist to finish his art, we live in a world with commitments, so there's no point in whining if that deadline isn't reached... especially when you get even more time and that isn't reached either. Don't be a bitch

Of course, things are still hazy and nothing prevents id from being a ultimate jerk, just paying Gordon to keep quiet and that's it. The thing is that it doesn't help when a guy goes on the internet to release that kind of information after "the momentum", and doesn't help even more if you could just take the legal stuff and this information could come as a normal journalistic thing that comes by consequence of the stuff, not by the source

Great game and great OST thou

I agree with the commitment part, but I took it that Mick agreed on the initial timeline as long as id was able to deliver on their end (footage, concepts, art, etc), he suggested changing the schedule once it was obvious that wouldn’t be the case. It also doesn’t help that they didn’t pay him for months.

Also, a lot of the deadline talk has to do with the OST, which feels like a setup: using his name to sell preorders and then going radio silence when asked about it. The contract for it came last minute after it wasn’t ready (delayed) and id felt pressured by consumer laws.

I think the one fault Mick had more than commitment or teamwork, seems to be not getting a lawyer sooner.

 

[ShadowNate]

Also, a lot of the deadline talk has to do with the OST, which feels like a setup: using his name to sell preorders and then going radio silence when asked about it. The contract for it came last minute after it wasn’t ready (delayed) and id felt pressured by consumer laws.

They totally thought they could produce the OST from the in-game tracks Mick had delivered, on their own, didn't they? Use Mick's name on the "label", since it was his original work being repurposed, co-credit the guy who botcheddid the mixing and splitting, and avoid a new contract, save a few $$$. I mean, this was totally the main plan, not a back up.

 

[jigglet]

Gotta love the average joe corporate management that refuses to pay half your work and then pays you 6 figures to stay silent (or else) to feed the family. I guess tony soprano was a family feeder too eh?

Yes. That’s what competing priorities are. He didn’t give a shit about the art. I’m not saying I like it but it’s not hard to understand some people have differing priorities.

 

[Calling 911 Melts Beams]

this mickdonalds sure has messed up and their ice cream machine never works

 

[Inviusx]

It's easy to relate to both sides if you read the articles back to back which I just did. I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle here. Management dragging their feet but Mick also being difficult to work with and possibly coming into the project with a massive ego after the 2016 OST blew up.

All I know is that airing this out publicly has made both sides seem petty.

 

[lostinblue]

Have you read the response? It seems it was incompetent management from Bethesda and this Marty Stratton guy who actually caused the issue in the first place.

Bethesda announced an OST without even having a contract in place for it and demanded finalised music for levels that didn't exist. That's insane mismanagement.

It's worse than that.

The Doom Eternal executive producer and most likely other people in upper management apparently had a plan to sidestep the composer on the OST altogether in order to reduce the spending on the sound budget. Which is why they were doing it with his files behind his back, thing is they were inept at it, but the executive didn't know better, and probably didn't care.

On top of that they were hiding that they had gaslight the composer into composing plenty of stuff they rejected, but used anyway. Along with plenty of other maneuvers that were unneeded like withholding pay for 11 months at a time. They pay for minutes of ingame music, so the fact that they used double what they paid for means they owe the composer every extra minute, as was defined in the original contract as well. Keeping him away from the OST would keep him in the dark about that before the game launched, which was probably part of the reason they didn't want him working on it.

Everything raised is pretty damming.

It's easy to relate to both sides if you read the articles back to back which I just did. I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle here. Management dragging their feet but Mick also being difficult to work with and possibly coming into the project with a massive ego after the 2016 OST blew up.

I don't know about that, I think he was happy to contribute at first.

He even accepted the original composing schedule which was a nightmare, proposed other, kept working, and to the final calls seemed to just want things to go right despite the fact he was being mistreated. There are always ego, and shitty situations, I'm sure there were plenty, but I'm guessing he was right to feel that way if that's what was going on in the background.

 

[Redneckerz]

I skimmed through it

That's where things went wrong because this isn't the kind of thing you should skim through.

I am glad you did though because it makes it painfully obvious you aren't understanding the implications here.

MO Mick Gordon comes across as an entitled, shit-stirring goon.

Yes, that's exactly the kind of conclusion i would make aswell if i would skim through things and then just make up the rest of the conclusion to fit whatever opposite world narrative it is that you are projecting into the world.

Its also exactly the opposite of what his rebuttal started with, but you wouldn't know.

You just skimmed through it.

It only solidifies that he must be a nightmare to deal with.

It only solidifies that you have the reading comprehension of a brick. I know a lot of GAF posts are trying to be baiting or controversial but this is neither and this isn't trolling either.

What this is, is a blantant misrepresentation of what is said here by Gordon and you running with it.

And on that note its one of the worst posts i've read on GAF.

However, the released OST that contains a ton of poor edited music contains a lot of work that he wasn’t paid for. Also, the game contains some of this music he wasn’t paid for too.

That's what i am saying, perhaps poorly.

 

[ShadowLag]

On top of that they were hiding that they had gaslight the composer into composing plenty of stuff they rejected, but used anyway.

Yep... got paid for half of his in-game music, but also says he composed another OST for a different Bethesda game in 2015 which they refused to pay him for because they "weren't going to release any it any more", only for them to release it without paying him in 2019. He admits to making a dumb move and composing that OST without a signed contract, however:

a) they purposely stalled the contract forever, presumably knowing he'd be enticed to finish and submit as much work as possible before it arrived / even if it never arrived and b) they ended up selling that OST anyway, something made entirely by him, without paying him - which, even if it wasn't done under contract, goes to show where their moral compass points, and made worse by the fact that they tried to do it again.

I couldn't believe the section in his post describing that.... how he demanded payment for his 2015 OST while also trying to find someone in the company to provide him with a contract to do the Eternal OST that they already publicly attached his name to.

 

[Shut0wen]

I read the response, it's because the legal mediation process took very long and didn't arrive to an agreement. The composer didn't want to agree to the six figure payout since it involved taking the blame for Bethesda's mismanagement.

If you read what he says he doesnt blame bethesda, infact bethesda seemed pretty shocked at what he said and by the time the ost came out and mick realised it was to late, dont get why bethesda is getting shit when really its all mismanagement from ID

 

[OGM_Madness]

I have to admit that I'm bothered that I don't see this issue anywhere? I'd like to think they are corroborating the news before reporting it, but to me, this gives credence to the gag order because no one is talking about it (except here, resetera and the doom reddit). Please, tell me I'm wrong.

 

[hyperbertha]

Yes. That’s what competing priorities are. He didn’t give a shit about the art. I’m not saying I like it but it’s not hard to understand some people have differing priorities.

i really don't think you grasp the gravity of what this Marty character has done. This is borderline criminal. Blackmail. There's no competing priorities here.

 

[AmuroChan]

Wow, this is disgusting. Is Marty still employed at Id?

 

[K2D]

Having been in a similar situation myself, I think this is an messy situation that paints both bad light, but Marty in a worse light than Mick.

Would be good for studio heads and execs to acknowledge that their development culture is nothing close to healthy. That'd be the day..

 

[FUBARx89]

I have to admit that I'm bothered that I don't see this issue anywhere? I'd like to think they are corroborating the news before reporting it, but to me, this gives credence to the gag order because no one is talking about it (except here, resetera and the doom reddit). Please, tell me I'm wrong.

Eurogamer, RPS, VGC, IGN etc etc are reporting on it.

 

[lostinblue]

he composed another OST for a different Bethesda game in 2015 which they refused to pay him for because they "weren't going to release any it any more", only for them to release it without paying him in 2019. He admits to making a dumb move and composing that OST without a signed contract, however:

Might be a bit of a grammar nazi on my part, but technically I think his notion of OST is not composing anymore, more like mastering an album made from his compositions for high fidelity stereo.

I might be wrong here.

Bethesda game in 2015 has to be Wolfenstein: The Old Blood

 

[marquimvfs]

This thread cannot die, cuz there's barely any coverage on the matter right now. The matter will be forgotten and I think Mick should get the recognition and retraction he deserves. It doesn't matter if you think he's wrong, it doesn't matter if he omitted something on his open letter, just the fact that he wasn't payed in full (and he brought recipes for this claim) is enough reason to tell id to fuck off.

 

[Skitso]

It's curious to see that Marty or id have not responded to this in any way and are seemingly just waiting for this to fade away. Huge image hit for the company.

 

[IYAOYAS2019]

Both are to blame. Act like idiots and get stupid results.

Did you even read the mans statement???? Mick was in now way at fault. Try a bit harder next time you decide to post.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

I'm not really surprised about the things Mick revealed.

It is Bethesda, after all.

 

[Clear]

Couple of things to consider, taking all "personality" issues out of the mix.

1. The reality is that the product as a whole is all that matters. So having the music provider bound to immovable deadlines should be expected. Nobody is going to delay their game because the music isn't ready. The music is merely a supporting element, not the thing itself, to do otherwise would have the cart driving the horse.

2. If the terms of the deal were unreasonable, (i.e. deliver 2 finished tracks per month over x months), then why sign it in the first place?

3. As a professional composer/musician working within the space then it should have been understood from the start that an OST is essentially a promotional tool for the game, and as such subject to the same business imperatives as delivery of the soundtrack itself. If reputation was a major concern then it should have been thoroughly determined within the contract that the composer/musician demands full creative control over the OST and its release conditions. Again, why would a pro sign a deal not having this in writing at the outset?

The whole thing seems pretty strange to me. I mean music generally is very subjective, history is littered with classic albums and tracks that were rejected on first submission to the creator's label/publisher because they (wrongly) didn't think they were sufficiently commercial. And yet, what we're supposed to glean from this is that Mick's stuff is pure gold and had to be accepted and published! That's just not realistic imho, especially when the work itself -to stress the point once again- is not a standalone thing, its purpose is to support another, far larger, creative work. Thus placing the onus for judgement on those in charge of that bigger project.

 

[Cryio]

People who voted for Matty clearly haven't worked in their life.

Management is often, OFTEN ran by incompetent arrogant bastards. I more often than not am amazed how businesses are keeping afloat given all the dumb decisions happening all the time.

 

[peronmls]

But who’s the idiot at Reddit who banned him?

 

[TheSHEEEP]

You do not seem to fully understand what this is about.

1. The reality is that the product as a whole is all that matters. So having the music provider bound to immovable deadlines should be expected. Nobody is going to delay their game because the music isn't ready. The music is merely a supporting element, not the thing itself, to do otherwise would have the cart driving the horse.

2. If the terms of the deal were unreasonable, (i.e. deliver 2 finished tracks per month over x months), then why sign it in the first place?

3. As a professional composer/musician working within the space then it should have been understood from the start that an OST is essentially a promotional tool for the game, and as such subject to the same business imperatives as delivery of the soundtrack itself. If reputation was a major concern then it should have been thoroughly determined within the contract that the composer/musician demands full creative control over the OST and its release conditions. Again, why would a pro sign a deal not having this in writing at the outset?

1. The product IS the OST - this is not and has never been about the game itself. The music of the game has been delivered as agreed and was already in the game, working as intended, while the OST status was still up in the air - except for a public announcement that even Mick was surprised by.
"Nobody is going to delay..." - Except that very delay was granted to him as shown in his statement and later on revoked.

2. and 3. are both answered in the statement.
Mick agrees that it was naive of him to trust in statements made by the people he worked with and instead should have insisted from the get-go in a contract before lifting a finger for the OST.
That said, it is really not uncommon in the software development sphere for freelancers (especially artists!) to start work before a finalized contract is made.
It sucks, yes, but that's unfortunately how it often is, which is why it doesn't raise as many alarms for artists as it would for most other people...

Still doesn't change that ID (well, mostly Marty) behaved like completely unprofessional buffoons and just straight up lied on multiple occasions.
Mick is not to blame for their behavior, but he could've evaded the entire shitfest by insisting on a contract before starting to work on the OST.

I feel bad for that Chad dude who was probably thrown into something he had no idea how to do by his clueless boss.
I hope he doesn't get too much shit flung at him by angery bois.

 

[marquimvfs]

But who’s the idiot at Reddit who banned him?

The mod who did that shit commited account suicide just after he published his letter.

 

[Clear]

You do not seem to fully understand what this is about.


1. The product IS the OST - this is not and has never been about the game itself. The music of the game has been delivered as agreed and was already in the game, working as intended, while the OST status was still up in the air - except for a public announcement that even Mick was surprised by.
"Nobody is going to delay..." - Except that very delay was granted to him as shown in his statement and later on revoked.

2. and 3. are both answered in the statement.
Mick agrees that it was naive of him to trust in statements made by the people he worked with and instead should have insisted from the get-go in a contract before lifting a finger for the OST.
That said, it is really not uncommon in the software development sphere for freelancers (especially artists!) to start work before a finalized contract is made.
It sucks, yes, but that's unfortunately how it often is, which is why it doesn't raise as many alarms for artists as it would for most other people...

Still doesn't change that ID (well, mostly Marty) behaved like completely unprofessional buffoons and just straight up lied on multiple occasions.
Mick is not to blame for their behavior, but he could've evaded the entire shitfest by insisting on a contract before starting to work on the OST.

I feel bad for that Chad dude who was probably thrown into something he had no idea how to do by his clueless boss.
I hope he doesn't get too much shit flung at him by angery bois.

I'm totally aware of how the business works, and no the product is not the OST. Its a derivative of the product, the work-for-hire he did for ID.

He doesn't own the franchise, and that franchise -the Doom brand- is immensely more valuable than anything he owns or can claim the moral right of authorship of.

Bottom line is that -as anyone who's worked in the industry knows- as an individual artist you are just another contractor, and thus you don't own your own work UNLESS you have contractually stipulated as such.

The way I see it, his primary complaint -which I think is fair- is the reputational damage caused by the OST not being up to the standard he'd like. Unfortunately unless he is/was contractually able to veto the release, that's on him. Because by failing to get that concession in black-and-white, he was always going to be at the mercy of the whims and tastes of his partners as to the nature (quality) and release timing of that content.

From the studio's standpoint it seems they had doubts about the quality of his deliverables (hence them roping Chad into preparing a version of the OST 6 months prior) and by attributing it both to him and Mick, they were covering their arses legally speaking on publication.

Its messy, but to be brutally honest just seems like standard "creative differences" in effect.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

I'm totally aware of how the business works, and no the product is not the OST. Its a derivative of the product, the work-for-hire he did for ID.

I'm sorry, man, but you are talking out of your ass here.

Yes, the product IS the OST, and not at all just a derivative work.
You do not understand how the soundtrack for Doom Eternal works, it's precisely NOT just the slapping together of a few music pieces (that's what Chad did and why it ended up so horrible).

There were two contracts - one for the game and one for the OST, and all the drama and ID's ineptitude are about the second contract.

As written by Mick himself:

• The standalone OST wasn’t in production, and I hadn’t been offered a contract to produce it. In fact, we hadn’t talked about the scope, the timeframe, or whether it was even feasible.

Marty’s response threw me. For reasons I still don’t understand, he flatly denied me the contract and refused to do anything about the OST

[later he did receive the contract] The DOOM Eternal OST contract, which is inarguable, provides further proof that Marty’s allegations against me are false.

3a. The actual deadline: Marty claims we signed the contract in “January”, and the deadline was “early March”. But that’s a total lie.

• I received and signed the contract on March 18.

All of this is about the extra contract for the OST, because that is the product all of this is about, and NOT Mick's work on the game itself, which at this point was already done.

The rest of your words is just putting up strawmen, arguing points that nobody ever disagreed with or that have nothing to do with what this is about (the OST = the second contract).

 

[marquimvfs]

The way I see it, his primary complaint -which I think is fair- is the reputational damage caused by the OST not being up to the standard he'd like.

So, the way I see, you saw it wrong...

 

[Danknugz]

The amount of hype this one soundtrack gets, you'd think it was some undiscovered beethoven symphony or something. Lots of hype for a couple of generic post dubstep metal fusion tracks that never really fit the game and made you feel like you were in a rave instead of actual hell.

 

[Clear]

I'm sorry, man, but you are talking out of your ass here.

Yes, the product IS the OST, and not at all just a derivative work.

So the music in the OST isn't what's used in the game? No derivation whatsoever? Hmmm, that sounds plausible LOL

One is clearly derived from the other, so the legal owner of the "original" material has a substantial amount of control over both.

You do not understand how the soundtrack for Doom Eternal works, it's precisely NOT just the slapping together of a few music pieces (that's what Chad did and why it ended up so horrible).

Who do you think gets to determine what constitutes a "Doom Eternal" soundtrack; the composer, or the people who own the "Doom Eternal" branding?

There were two contracts - one for the game and one for the OST, and all the drama and ID's ineptitude are about the second contract.

Yes, because without Bethesda's/Id's consent there would be no way to sell the soundtrack. It would have to be repackaged as something completely different, and even then there'd be legal complications based on the exact licensing deal proposed in the ORIGINAL contract for the game music.

I have to stress this: Game publishers will routinely demand every asset that a contractor uses to create the final deliverable. They want the source code as well as the binary just so they keep control over what they've paid for. I believe Mick actually mentions that they wanted everything down to the pro-tools tracks this from him.

What this tells me is that they were locking things down legally.

All of this is about the extra contract for the OST, because that is the product all of this is about, and NOT Mick's work on the game itself, which at this point was already done.

As I keep demonstrating one is materially derived from the other, including ID/Bethesa's IP and branding. This does not appear to be a case where pre-existing, pre-published music was licensed for the game. It was bespoke work-for-hire done to support another property not owned by the composer.

The rest of your words is just putting up strawmen, arguing points that nobody ever disagreed with or that have nothing to do with what this is about (the OST = the second contract).

You appear to have a really simplistic understanding of how the industry works, so please continue to believe what you want to believe. Reality will catch up eventually.

 

[Laptop1991]

I watched a few video's about this, Zenimax and Bethesda publishing showing their true colours of recent times, they use to be very different 10 years + ago, i believe him, he has a lot of receipts.

 

[PhoenixTank]

I watched a few video's about this, Zenimax and Bethesda publishing showing their true colours of recent times, they use to be very different 10 years + ago, i believe him, he has a lot of receipts.

I like to think this wouldn't have happened with Carmack there still. Amusingly enough I'd forgotten that Carmack had to sue Zenimax in 2017 for the $22.5M that they hadn't paid him for selling id.

 

[Laptop1991]

I like to think this wouldn't have happened with Carmack there still. Amusingly enough I'd forgotten that Carmack had to sue Zenimax in 2017 for the $22.5M that they hadn't paid him for selling id.

yeah and at the same time they have been issuing threats and suing modder's who have kept their games constantly selling over the years, deep down they are not very nice.

 

[Denton]

So all quiet on Zenimax front? Stratton not fired yet, no investigation launched by MS, nothing? Pretending nothing happened, business as usual?

Fuck MS, Zenimax, Bethesda and id if that is so.

Stratton publicly lied and then tried to buy public acceptance of those lies from Gordon. Fuck him.

 

[Brigandier]

That's where things went wrong because this isn't the kind of thing you should skim through.

I am glad you did though because it makes it painfully obvious you aren't understanding the implications here.

Yes, that's exactly the kind of conclusion i would make aswell if i would skim through things and then just make up the rest of the conclusion to fit whatever opposite world narrative it is that you are projecting into the world.

Its also exactly the opposite of what his rebuttal started with, but you wouldn't know.

You just skimmed through it.

It only solidifies that you have the reading comprehension of a brick. I know a lot of GAF posts are trying to be baiting or controversial but this is neither and this isn't trolling either.

What this is, is a blantant misrepresentation of what is said here by Gordon and you running with it.

And on that note its one of the worst posts i've read on GAF.

That's what i am saying, perhaps poorly.

Excellent post, literally took the words out of my mouth.

The amount of hype this one soundtrack gets, you'd think it was some undiscovered beethoven symphony or something. Lots of hype for a couple of generic post dubstep metal fusion tracks that never really fit the game and made you feel like you were in a rave instead of actual hell.

Shit post, absolutely fuck all to do with the topic at hand, Cool you don't like his generic OST (it's not) but what's your actual input on the topic?.

Anyone who voted Marty is a troll or sucks corporate dick.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

One is clearly derived from the other, so the legal owner of the "original" material has a substantial amount of control over both.

NO ONE IS ARGUING THIS STRAWMAN YOU KEEP BUILDING UP AND TEARING DOWN.
Holy shit, do you have some kind of hay fetish?

Let me make it really, really clear: This is not about who legally/contractually has control over the end result of the OST product.

Your definition of "derivative" is also incredibly narrow, we'll just have to disagree on that one.

You appear to have a really simplistic understanding of how the industry works, so please continue to believe what you want to believe. Reality will catch up eventually.

In contrast to you, I actually studied and worked in the industry (for years, and more years adjacent to it), including fairly closely with artists producing soundtracks and still held contacts even as I moved away from the industry (payment's shit, honestly), so, uh....

 

[Pakoe]

My man came with all the damn receipts, goddamn. Micky, Marty or whatever the fuck his name is sounds like a fucking bitch.
Hope Mick gets what he is owed.

 

[Hastelander]

Deal with the devil and post unrelated images inside the tracks and you get the horn.
Or would like a demo from Cuphead and Mugman?

 

[rsouzadk]

Sided with Mick for sure. DOOM 2016 ost was fucking amazing.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

If his statement is to be believed, mick isn't to be blamed at all.

Honestly, all that Mick has to do is show the proof for that 6 figure payout attempt and no one will believe a word coming out of idSoft or Marty ever again.

 

[Danknugz]

Excellent post, literally took the words out of my mouth.



Shit post, absolutely fuck all to do with the topic at hand, Cool you don't like his generic OST (it's not) but what's your actual input on the topic?.

Anyone who voted Marty is a troll or sucks corporate dick.

you are entitled to your opinion. it is relevant to the topic because people make a way bigger deal out of these tracks than they are. they're corny metal fusion sounding wanna be skrillex that came years after dubstep stopped being cool, a horrible fit for Dooms aesthetics and an insult to its lineage.

 

[Clear]

NO ONE IS ARGUING THIS STRAWMAN YOU KEEP BUILDING UP AND TEARING DOWN.
Holy shit, do you have some kind of hay fetish?

And yet, here we are. Arguing, with you resorting increasingly desperately to ad-hominem attacks!

Let me make it really, really clear: This is not about who legally/contractually has control over the end result of the OST product.

Its generally about a breakdown in the relationship between a contractor and their contractee, with the specific bone of contention arising over dealings with a specific deliverable asset; the Doom Eternal OST. As sadly seems to be in vogue these days these creative and contractual differences have gotten kicked into the court of public opinion, complicating matters as both sides are attempting to shape the narrative in their favour.

Lame and tawdry behaviour imho.

Your definition of "derivative" is also incredibly narrow, we'll just have to disagree on that one.

No. This you are plainly wrong. Derivation (in multiple dimensions of meaning) is pretty much the heart of the matter because it factors into the perception of which party owns and controls the product the disagreement orbits.

In contrast to you, I actually studied and worked in the industry (for years, and more years adjacent to it), including fairly closely with artists producing soundtracks and still held contacts even as I moved away from the industry (payment's shit, honestly), so, uh....

You want to compare credentials, feel free to PM me. I highly highly doubt you've worked on as many titles as I have! Including, as I've mentioned already in this thread one working with Marty Stratton as a producer!

No dick-waving here, in fact I find it mildly irritating that I have assert such stuff in order to defend myself against your baseless clueless claim that I'm the one misrepresenting my level of industry experience and knowledge. Especially as everything you write comes across as strikingly ignorant of how corporate dev actually works, being overly personal and emotionally invested in defending "your side's" honour.

If you had actual knowledge you'd know how low on the totem-pole music is, and thus how expendably composers and music producers are treated. Not saying that's right, just making the point that's how it is.

That being said, I have zero emotional or professional investment in this particular situation. I've just provided a counter-point to the pro-Mick fanboyism by trying to outline how the corporate camp thinks about this conflict.

Top-tip: Don't insert .gif's when trying to make your point credibly. Its the digital equivalent of clown-shoes, noone's going to take you seriously when you can't use words to articulate your point.

 

[Kacho]

Clear is an absolute unit spitting facts in the face of everyone’s emotional response to this drama.

 

[SirKicksalot]

So all quiet on Zenimax front? Stratton not fired yet, no investigation launched by MS, nothing? Pretending nothing happened, business as usual?

Fuck MS, Zenimax, Bethesda and id if that is so.

Stratton publicly lied and then tried to buy public acceptance of those lies from Gordon. Fuck him.

He's the studio director and one of the few old id people still there (he was hired after Quake 1). They're not going to throw him under the bus so quickly.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Arguing, with you resorting increasingly desperately to ad-hominem attacks!

I'm not desperate, I'm having a lot of fun with you.

Look, once you start making non-strawman points that are actually pertaining to the issue at hand here, I'll stop making fun about your hay addiction, alright?
Doesn't look like that's anytime soon, though...

Derivation (in multiple dimensions of meaning) is pretty much the heart of the matter because it factors into the perception of which party owns and controls the product the disagreement orbits.

*sigh* No.
Not a single person that can still rub some brain cells together disputes who owns and controls the product.
Bethesda does.
Mick was a contractor not actually owning the assets he delivered. As is normal for contractors.
Again, not at all what this is about.

If you had actual knowledge you'd know how low on the totem-pole music is, and thus how expendably composers and music producers are treated. Not saying that's right, just making the point that's how it is.

Another point that nobody contended, as it's an open "secret" (not really, since everybody in the industry and by now many outside know this).

It is, however, what this issue is actually about - how badly Mick was treated by ID/Marty.
Including just straight up lying publically.
I mean, the proof is all there, the dates, the contracts, the hush money (!!!), etc.

Do you actually contend any points that Mick raises or what is your deal here?

"That's just how it is" or "he should've known better than to expect good treatment" is a pretty damn terrible defense of anything.
Or is all you are saying just "this isn't newsworthy, cause it's so common"?

As sadly seems to be in vogue these days these creative and contractual differences have gotten kicked into the court of public opinion, complicating matters as both sides are attempting to shape the narrative in their favour.

What's the alternative?
Taking the hush money (the offer of which is in and off itself an admission of guilt in all but law) and publically accepting the blame wrongfully put on you through lies?
Just accepting the loss of reputation put onto you by the actions of others?

I'm honestly curious about what you think Mick should've done considering all the things he brought to light through his statement.

Top-tip: Don't insert .gif's when trying to make your point credibly. Its the digital equivalent of clown-shoes, noone's going to take you seriously when you can't use words to articulate your point.

I will write in any way I want to in order to add some spice and humor to a discussion.
And I couldn't care less what you think about that.

You are correct in not taking people in forum discussions very serious, though. I don't do that, etiher.