This guy isn't rich.
This guy isn't hugely famous.
Even so, neither factors help very much when you're getting bullied mercilessly for much of your life. Try a little empathy.
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Mark Hamill defends the Star Wars prequels, angry with about how Jake Lloyd was treat
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This guy isn't rich.
This guy isn't hugely famous.
Even so, neither factors help very much when you're getting bullied mercilessly for much of your life. Try a little empathy.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Why? Because that would make me think otherwise about the movie? It's Star Wars. It's sci-fi. There are bound to be toys everywhere. Or lack thereof, and then it turns into a problem. It's something I usually take for granted with these movies. It's telling when even RO got that right, the movie that went so far out of its why to show us something more original and create a unique tone (for a SW movie that is), while not having the luxury of a large gap in time.
It certainly has its own set of characters with different motivations and background. This is its biggest merit. The problem is that too many events in the story are essentially copied, going from the initial setup and the beginning of the movie right up until almost the end with the destruction of the new super weapon, that was threatening to destroy the planet where the base was located they were trying to find. Which they reached by travelling with the Millenium Falcon.
And that single McGuffin was also sadly going to be indicative to how poorly they connected these copied story pieces together, since it rarely makes any sense.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
What
I was pointing out that your response started out like you were going to criticize the storytelling and then you just complained that there weren't enough new toys in it for you.
Are you actually concerned about the story or would whatever problems you did have with the story get backburnered because of all the sweet new vehicles?
Mass Effect
Member
Liam and Ewan were the few characters that actually were redeeming points of the prequels. They did pretty good jobs considering what they had to work with.
Same goes for Ian McDiarmid.
Ian McDiarmid almost single-handedly rescues Revenge of the Sith.
The man was a godsend. A modern day Atlas.
I hate the prequels but it was always so hyperbolic to say the ruined childhoods lol.
And I'm in full agreement that Jake was so unfairly treated, he was just a kid.
Hell honestly I feel most actors that are considered bad get so much hate that I don't understand, it's like people take bad performances personally or something.
And I'm in full agreement that Jake was so unfairly treated, he was just a kid.
Hell honestly I feel most actors that are considered bad get so much hate that I don't understand, it's like people take bad performances personally or something.
I think you misunderstand; I'm not disagreeing with you. If anything positive was gleaned from their performances, I honestly thing it was in spite of George Lucas's directing. He clearly stifled the performances of all the actors.
Mass Effect
Member
But it literally did ruin Jake's childhood.
And probably Hayden's acting career also.
Ah yeah, you're right. You're saying that Lucas had this star-studded cast of talented actors and somehow managed to make virtually all of them into lifeless wooden boards.
I never understood the hate. Sure they're cheesy but there's only a few bits of them that are actively, obnoxiously bad.
In my mind i always play off Anakin's bad dialogue as either him being a 9-year-old kid (seriously, talk to 9 year olds. They sound closer to Anakin in Ep I than, say, Arnold in Hey Arnold, though he was also child-acted), or being a socially repressed young man with no idea how to talk to anyone except for Obi-Wan.
Doesn't excuse it, but him being awkward as shit is in-universe justifiable.
In my mind i always play off Anakin's bad dialogue as either him being a 9-year-old kid (seriously, talk to 9 year olds. They sound closer to Anakin in Ep I than, say, Arnold in Hey Arnold, though he was also child-acted), or being a socially repressed young man with no idea how to talk to anyone except for Obi-Wan.
Doesn't excuse it, but him being awkward as shit is in-universe justifiable.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
Have you been introduced to The Internet?
Jake Lloyd was way better than the dude who played Anakin in the next two movies though.
crackhead_bob
Member
Here's a question worth pondering: What if George Lucas was a competent director and got a stellar performance out of everyone involved, including Jake Lloyd? Would he have gone on the same trajectory as he did, or could his life had gone differently? I think of Haley Joel Osment and Drew Barrymore, who had both starred in highly successful blockbusters as child actors.
Haley seemed to be the level headed of the two, having not been the poster child for drug dependency like Drew was, but did he ever have the issues that Jake did as a result of his stardom? It's like he dropped off the face of earth when he hit puberty and then reemerged on Veep. Drew, on the otherhand, ended up falling on hard times before she was even 10, but I don't know if it had anything to do with backlash stemming from her performance in E.T.. I don't know what Haley's thoughts on his experience with Sixth Sense was, but I know that Drew looks back fondly on her role in E.T. through numerous interviews throughout the years. As people have said many times here, kids can be assholes, so I'm sure that Haley and Drew got their fair share of hate as well. Fast forward to the present, any asshole could pile on them for starring in Sixth Sense and E.T. but at the end of the day, what power do they have? I think if Jake were able to say "fuck it" and own his place in TPM without apologies it's possible he could have won over a sizable fanbase as a result.
And for the record, I don't believe that George Lucas ruined anyone's childhood. I always figured that it was meant to be a humorous byline by comedians and satirists, but I never assumed that people would actually take that meme to heart. The world we live in:-/
Haley seemed to be the level headed of the two, having not been the poster child for drug dependency like Drew was, but did he ever have the issues that Jake did as a result of his stardom? It's like he dropped off the face of earth when he hit puberty and then reemerged on Veep. Drew, on the otherhand, ended up falling on hard times before she was even 10, but I don't know if it had anything to do with backlash stemming from her performance in E.T.. I don't know what Haley's thoughts on his experience with Sixth Sense was, but I know that Drew looks back fondly on her role in E.T. through numerous interviews throughout the years. As people have said many times here, kids can be assholes, so I'm sure that Haley and Drew got their fair share of hate as well. Fast forward to the present, any asshole could pile on them for starring in Sixth Sense and E.T. but at the end of the day, what power do they have? I think if Jake were able to say "fuck it" and own his place in TPM without apologies it's possible he could have won over a sizable fanbase as a result.
And for the record, I don't believe that George Lucas ruined anyone's childhood. I always figured that it was meant to be a humorous byline by comedians and satirists, but I never assumed that people would actually take that meme to heart. The world we live in:-/
crackhead_bob
Member
It's nothing short of a miracle that Natalie Portman's career survived. I remember her taking an indirect jab at Lucas after the director, Mike Nichols had died. She said that for a long time no director would hire her because they all assumed she couldn't act and that it was Mike Nichols who stepped forward and was willing to take a chance with her.
Great post. I don't get the RLM defense force I've seen on this board lately (noticed it in lots of threads recently), especially in regard to some of their more shallow and clearly close minded bits of criticism. It's a weird thing to be passionate about. Feels like if it were anyone else, people wouldn't be openly defending it but RLM has naturally green lit this perspective, riding on the back of the success of Plinkett's PT reviews from over a decade ago.
Digital-Hero
Member
I saw it again recently since I own it on Blu-ray. It's horrifyingly bad. It's worse now than when I saw it in the theater in my early 20s.
And it's not just the writing...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There are a lot of people who have a lot invested in fighting that particular "good fight," so much so that whenever anyone at any time speaks out against shitting on them, it's now interpreted as a defense of them.
Of course, the fact it's still such a concern that even discussing them in terms of losses and victories is really fucking weird, but that's unfortunately a built in aspect of this fandom now. There are always going to be a significant (until age starts whittling us down) group of fans who refuse to a) let go of the fact the narrative is set and the Prequels do not fare well in it, b) let go of the idea that narrative was arrived at fairly, and c) let go of the notion that Star Wars has to bat 1.000 in order to be appreciated fully - which is partially why they fight so hard against the narrative that the first three movies aren't that good.
It's a weird thing. Fans of countless other film (and television) series, are able to like the more maligned chapters, appreciate the more mocked entries, and admit those entries are mocked for a reason without the entire fanbase drawing lines and going for the throat whenever it's brought up.
But Star Wars fans, man...
User 73706
Banned
it is now?
Frozenprince
Banned
Jake Lloyd developeds severe mental health issues to the point where I believe he is still held in a mental hospital for them. Due in no small part to the constant, unending bullying and abuse he suffered as a child.
Nothing makes that okay
Nothing makes that okay
Neff
Member
yup
Greedings
Member
I had no idea that he was set upon by the star wars fanbase. Too young at the time to even consider looking up the actors in a movie.
It's pathetic, he wasn't at fault for the shitty movie, he was just a weak actor, and it's not like poor actors are hard to come by.
Wasn't Hayden nominated for an Oscar or Golden Globe or something? Then after star wars he tried acting again but most of his movies were critical and commercial failures?
It's pathetic, he wasn't at fault for the shitty movie, he was just a weak actor, and it's not like poor actors are hard to come by.
Wasn't Hayden nominated for an Oscar or Golden Globe or something? Then after star wars he tried acting again but most of his movies were critical and commercial failures?
Early in his career he was nominated for a couple of awards and he played well in Shattered Glass. He was terrible in Star Wars and his career never recovered. It must be very difficult to escape the shadow of such a bad film and performance, I know that Natalie Portman had to really fight to get serious work after the prequels. I think deep down he knows he doesn't have enough talent to really act and he happily moved onto other things.
Monocle
Member
If you say so.
Diprosalic
Banned
you get cast in a big role in one of the biggest movies of all time and you get bullied at school.
kids don't care.
kids don't care.
I does make you wonder if George ever considered the potential backlash when he was making the movie. Casting a kid as Darth Vader was a mistake in so many ways but the way it ruined the boy's life was surely the worst.
Greedings
Member
Yup. It's so easy to forget about this amidst the hate for the movies. Sure, they sucked, but who cares? They're just fantasy stories.
Liamario
Banned
He didn't really defend the prequels to be fair. He questioned whether people were overly negative to them, but I wouldn't take from that interview that he defended the trilogy.
100% right about Jake Lloyd and anyone who attacked the kid really should take a look at themselves in the mirror and perhaps reassess their priorities.
100% right about Jake Lloyd and anyone who attacked the kid really should take a look at themselves in the mirror and perhaps reassess their priorities.
curiouscharles
Member
as Hamill himself said "chunky dialogue".
only the great actors cast in those films managed to save their reputations by managing said dialogue adequately, the poor kid never had a chance.
I think I misunderstood you here. I consider storytelling and story to be different things and I simply didn't have any issues with the former.
I wasn't going into detail regarding the story, because I felt like the similiarities had been talked about plenty enough, so I only explained my problems with the lack of toys (which almost never comes up in these discussions). I didn't want to make it seem like that was more important than the other though
Bobby Roberts
Banned
II wasn't going into detail regarding the story, because I felt like the similiarities had been talked about plenty enough, so I only explained my problems with the lack of toys (which almost never comes up in these discussions). I didn't want to make it seem like that was more important than the other though
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification, because yeah that was the part that had me going "hey, wait a min."
But yeah, I don't think there's anything weird/wrong/silly in appreciating Star Wars movies as primarily a floor-show for production and sound design. At which point, seeing nothing but new renders of old makes & models might be disappointing as hell.
I can't imagine what it's like to land this dream role that everyone wants and know that it is going to launch your career in the stratosphere, and then it turns out that role actually ruins your career and prevents you from ever being taken seriously again. How can you not be haunted by that every day?
Astral Dog
Member
Poor Loyd 😢
People can be so disgusting
People can be so disgusting
I think even Natalie Portman struggled to convince casting directors for a time, people underestimate just how badly those prequels were received within the industry:
For a young actor to escape such a trainwreck requires serious talent, Christensen got a few chances after Star Wars but he never convinced.
On behalf of their agents, absolutely.
Portman was attending Harvard during the prequels' production, so she wasn't making any other movies. After that, it seems like she kept landing pretty steady and regular work. Nothing on the level of Star Wars, but V For Vendetta and Garden State kept her in the spotlight.
Look I feel just as bad for Jake as anybody but.. Let's not pretend like he wasn't miscast. There were two other kids who were leagues better than him in the documented auditions alone.
I don't doubt he did the best he could have though, with what he was given.
But you're right in that Jake was not the problem with the PT.
Opticability
Banned
Jesus. What the hell.
Sectorseven
Member
This is probably a grey area, but how much of a say do child actors have in their careers vs. what their parents want? Did Jake Lloyd know he wanted this role, or was it all up to his parents, or did he just think he wanted it because his parents told him so?
Monocle
Member
He was not the problem, but he was a problem. His line delivery was very stilted and he didn't convey any of the special qualities you'd expect to see in The Chosen One.
In one of the Ep. 1 making-of docs, the casting for kid Anakin was narrowed down to Lloyd and an obviously superior child actor who knew how to deliver lines with some sense of feeling and believability. Naturally, Lucas cast Lloyd. His justification was really stupid too. Something about Lloyd's raw untutored quality or something. No George, he was just bad.
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