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Making games more difficult to test the player does not always make them more fun, especially when they're required for achievements

D-ray

Member
This one hits at home as an achievement hunter.
However, really depends on the challenge itself.

For instance, I recently got my hands on Crypt of the Necrodancer, and that game (atleast in it's vanilla state) has close to NO content outside the main (short) game experience.
Therefore, you go for achievements.
But oh my god are those ridiculous.

Is not like I HATE that they put hard challenges or achievements to complete, I HATE when they put them with no thought or reason behind it.
Keeping with Necrodancer, they added an achievement called "Impossible, right?" which basically requires you to beat the game with the worst character of the game. And the worst thing is that, not only playing as that character is just as fun as rubbing a cactus on an open wound with some alcohol on it, but the devs DIDN'T EVEN TEST THE DAMN CHALLENGE.
Basically, they made this impossible character, they can't finish the game as her, and pretend YOU to do it.

That's the kind of bullcrap achievements I agree on.

Regarding you, I can only ask you: what's even the point of partaking in them? They are boring, not fun and tedious. You'll end up having that achievement with no real satisfaction (felt on my own skin).

And to all devs, PLEASE, consider how hard or fun a challenge is before putting it into you game. Do us completists a favor!
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
the only type of trophies I don’t like are online trophies, I don’t like to be forced to play MP in order to get trophy.
 
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Soodanim

Member
Caring about achievements is the mistake here.
I'd say feeling entitled to achievements is the problem. In and of themselves, achievements can be a free way to extend the goal seeking a game offers by carrying out addition tasks or challenges set by developers and is fine if you feel like going for it. Feeling like you're owed the platinum, and/or a compulsion to get the platinum, is weird. That's beyond fun and into obsession/addiction territory.

I think the problem the OP is actually describing, if only by accident, is poor design that isn't fun. There's a discussion to be had there, because some people might like the challenge and others don't. But if it's optional, then you don't have to do it. Games should be fun, and when they stop being fun they're no longer useful as entertainment.
 
Project your own failings less and discuss like an adult, not like a petulant child.
Let me guess - fan of participation trophies at school?

Imagine someone saying: “Why do I need to learn piano for months and years before I’m good?”.

Platinum trophies are not obligatory, same with all other trophies. Stop being so entitled.



What the fuck? Why am I still getting quoted on a thread I made well over a month ago that keeps being bumped? Better yet, why do I have some self-entitled douche bag quoting me on here? Your gold status doesn't make you special snowflake, I used to pay for that too. Man's got bills to pay and has bigger priorities than a forum at present, you get me?



Seriously, did you even read my post? We get it, you don't care about trophies. You have a gold username and you're bad, oooh. Limp Bizkit 2001 vibes.

But honestly, did you even read my post? Like at all? The fact that you clearly don't care about trophies, makes me wonder why you even bothered to comment at all. I mean, why? What's the point? Did you accomplish your mission with your killer post and sick burn?

Yes, I care about trophies. As I said, I am well aware that some games are intentionally difficult. I get that. I don't expect a platinum trophy just for creating a character on Demon's Souls. But what I take issue with is how purely difficult some games can prove to be to unlock these trophies when it's completely arbitrary to be so difficult. Especially like someone for myself who literally can't hold things on bad days because my hands swell up so much. What am I supposed to do? Go and sit with the rest of the mongs and deformed people on my special console for special people and get a nice gold star sticker each day for turning my console on? I thought it was people like yourself, clearly very capable from your post, who decided people like me should get participation medals. I mean I'd try and think back to school but considering it was so long ago that it's not even there anymore, I don't remember how many special medal's I got. I don't remember getting any medals for simply popping my PS1 discs into my console either or maybe I should have got one for blowing into the streets of rage cartridge to get the game to work. How was I to know it would be so tough? Honestly.

I've been playing guitar since 2004 and some days I can't hold my pick right. I tried piano but didn't take to it as much as guitar and bass. Maybe I should just give up. I mean I shouldn't be playing it if I can't do it well enough right? Perhaps it's my own fault because I didn't "git gud" in time. 😮‍💨 Maybe I should stop being so entitled and give up my hobbies. I mean I don't exactly have years to work on completing Final Fantasy VII Remake Intermission. Maybe I should just watch a more capable person play it on YouTube and clap when they unlock the platinum. If it won't hurt my hands too much. 🤷‍♂️

I'd say feeling entitled to achievements is the problem. In and of themselves, achievements can be a free way to extend the goal seeking a game offers by carrying out addition tasks or challenges set by developers and is fine if you feel like going for it. Feeling like you're owed the platinum, and/or a compulsion to get the platinum, is weird. That's beyond fun and into obsession/addiction territory.

I think the problem the OP is actually describing, if only by accident, is poor design that isn't fun. There's a discussion to be had there, because some people might like the challenge and others don't. But if it's optional, then you don't have to do it. Games should be fun, and when they stop being fun they're no longer useful as entertainment.

I guess there are still some decent people in the thread who can open their mind a little.
 
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tygertrip

Member


What the fuck? Why am I still getting quoted on a thread I made well over a month ago that keeps being bumped? Better yet, why do I have some self-entitled douche bag quoting me on here? Your gold status doesn't make you special snowflake, I used to pay for that too. Man's got bills to pay and has bigger priorities than a forum at present, you get me?



Seriously, did you even read my post? We get it, you don't care about trophies. You have a gold username and you're bad, oooh. Limp Bizkit 2001 vibes.

But honestly, did you even read my post? Like at all? The fact that you clearly don't care about trophies, makes me wonder why you even bothered to comment at all. I mean, why? What's the point? Did you accomplish your mission with your killer post and sick burn?

Yes, I care about trophies. As I said, I am well aware that some games are intentionally difficult. I get that. I don't expect a platinum trophy just for creating a character on Demon's Souls. But what I take issue with is how purely difficult some games can prove to be to unlock these trophies when it's completely arbitrary to be so difficult. Especially like someone for myself who literally can't hold things on bad days because my hands swell up so much. What am I supposed to do? Go and sit with the rest of the mongs and deformed people on my special console for special people and get a nice gold star sticker each day for turning my console on? I thought it was people like yourself, clearly very capable from your post, who decided people like me should get participation medals. I mean I'd try and think because to school but considering it was so long ago that it's not even there anymore, I don't remember how many special medal's I got. I don't remember getting any medals for simply popping my PS1 discs into my console either or maybe I should have got one for blowing into the streets of rage cartridge to get the game to work. How was I to know it would be so tough? Honestly.

I've been playing guitar since 2004 and some days I can't hold my pick right. I tried piano but didn't take to it as much as guitar and bass. Maybe I should just give up. I mean I shouldn't be playing it if I can't do it well enough right? Perhaps it's my own fault because I didn't "git gud" in time. 😮‍💨 Maybe I should stop being so entitled and give up my hobbies. I mean I don't exactly have years to work on completing Final Fantasy VII Remake Intermission. Maybe I should just watch a more capable person play it on YouTube and clap when they unlock the platinum. If it won't hurt my hands too much. 🤷‍♂️



I guess there are still some decent people in the thread who can open their mind a little.
Holy heck, did he get his buddy blasted, or what? LOL!
 
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Holy heck, did he get his buddy blasted, or what? LOL!

Mate when you work in a job like mine to support your family and you're supporting abused children, children who are being exploited and reporting children that have died and you have a day like mine, the last thing you need is someone to get your back up with a flippant comment that quite honestly isn't necessary. Gaming is the one little thing I can escape from all this shit from, and I enjoy discussing games with people too. It's just my thing. But it only takes one. Just one.
 

Goliath77

Neo Member
Totally disagree. What is the point of the platinum if it isnt a challenge to get. Naughty dog ruined the trophy list with the remake. A lot of my friends platted the game in a day and a half. Zero challenge The removal by Sony of difficulty trophies makes a mockery of the whole system. Playing this game on grounded is amazing, every encounter means something, the feeling of joy if you stealth a section etc. If you 100% the game then completing on top difficulty should be included in my opinion.
 
Totally disagree. What is the point of the platinum if it isnt a challenge to get. Naughty dog ruined the trophy list with the remake. A lot of my friends platted the game in a day and a half. Zero challenge The removal by Sony of difficulty trophies makes a mockery of the whole system. Playing this game on grounded is amazing, every encounter means something, the feeling of joy if you stealth a section etc. If you 100% the game then completing on top difficulty should be included in my opinion.

Fair enough, respectful way to put it.
 

93xfan

Member
even getting an easy platinum gives some players a satisfactory feeling- that they then associate with the game. I think it’s about making the game memorable as well when you hunt for them.

Plus, if you 100% surely you’ll buy the sequel and do the same. And so on.

So trophies designed by suits.
 

BlackTron

Member
Makes me feel excluded in a way because I'm not going to get that good at this game.

It was at this point that I thought it was satire, but the rest of the post seemed to take itself seriously...as are all the replies. Second guessing myself and feeling in the Twilight Zone rn.

Edit: Whoops, only read the first page and didn't realize how old it is. AM posting is dangerous
 
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tygertrip

Member
Mate when you work in a job like mine to support your family and you're supporting abused children, children who are being exploited and reporting children that have died and you have a day like mine, the last thing you need is someone to get your back up with a flippant comment that quite honestly isn't necessary. Gaming is the one little thing I can escape from all this shit from, and I enjoy discussing games with people too. It's just my thing. But it only takes one. Just one.
Oh lord, get over yourself. 🙄
 


What the fuck? Why am I still getting quoted on a thread I made well over a month ago that keeps being bumped? Better yet, why do I have some self-entitled douche bag quoting me on here? Your gold status doesn't make you special snowflake, I used to pay for that too. Man's got bills to pay and has bigger priorities than a forum at present, you get me?



Seriously, did you even read my post? We get it, you don't care about trophies. You have a gold username and you're bad, oooh. Limp Bizkit 2001 vibes.

But honestly, did you even read my post? Like at all? The fact that you clearly don't care about trophies, makes me wonder why you even bothered to comment at all. I mean, why? What's the point? Did you accomplish your mission with your killer post and sick burn?

Yes, I care about trophies. As I said, I am well aware that some games are intentionally difficult. I get that. I don't expect a platinum trophy just for creating a character on Demon's Souls. But what I take issue with is how purely difficult some games can prove to be to unlock these trophies when it's completely arbitrary to be so difficult. Especially like someone for myself who literally can't hold things on bad days because my hands swell up so much. What am I supposed to do? Go and sit with the rest of the mongs and deformed people on my special console for special people and get a nice gold star sticker each day for turning my console on? I thought it was people like yourself, clearly very capable from your post, who decided people like me should get participation medals. I mean I'd try and think back to school but considering it was so long ago that it's not even there anymore, I don't remember how many special medal's I got. I don't remember getting any medals for simply popping my PS1 discs into my console either or maybe I should have got one for blowing into the streets of rage cartridge to get the game to work. How was I to know it would be so tough? Honestly.

I've been playing guitar since 2004 and some days I can't hold my pick right. I tried piano but didn't take to it as much as guitar and bass. Maybe I should just give up. I mean I shouldn't be playing it if I can't do it well enough right? Perhaps it's my own fault because I didn't "git gud" in time. 😮‍💨 Maybe I should stop being so entitled and give up my hobbies. I mean I don't exactly have years to work on completing Final Fantasy VII Remake Intermission. Maybe I should just watch a more capable person play it on YouTube and clap when they unlock the platinum. If it won't hurt my hands too much. 🤷‍♂️



I guess there are still some decent people in the thread who can open their mind a little.
I may be wrong, but I believe you mad bro.
 

TonyK

Member
Agree. I get the platinum in The last of Us part 2 and part 1 remake, and for the Uncharted Legacy of thief collection, because they removed the trophies tied to difficulty settings.
 

GHG

Member
And there's nothing required about achievements or even gaming itself. If you're not having "fun" then move on and play or do something else.

The end.

Oh lord, get over yourself. 🙄

The irony is that he treats gaming as if its work, like it's required for him to get these achievements etc. Entitled baby.
 
Ironically enough, this thread inspired me to go back and try to beat Weiss. Which I finally did. No cheese, just Synergy and lots of Lightning.

And yes, it's not easy. That's kind of the point. You can complete FF7R on normal without really even scratching the surface of what's possible.
 
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