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Making games more difficult to test the player does not always make them more fun, especially when they're required for achievements

Pretty much what it says in the title. I commend what Naughty Dog have done with The Last of Us Part 1 in that they've dropped the difficulty trophies. I genuinely believe games are to be enjoyed by people of all difficulties and I also like collecting platinum trophies. Divisive or not, some games really are too much. Uncharted and The Last of Us are terrible for this. Meaning you have to beat the game on their absolute hardest difficulties to get the platinum trophy. Not fun guys. Not enjoyable. Makes me feel excluded in a way because I'm not going to get that good at this game. Same for Final Fantasy VII Remake Integrade. That Weiss boss fight, is fucking bullshit. You can only hurt him when he's pressured in a very small window. His attacks do mega damage. The limit break item you spend hours and hours to unlock in an equally hard fight cannot be used. He heals himself passively and he has a one hit kill that activates every five minutes that kills your entire party. Not fun man, I've been trying to do this for a couple of months now and I'm just going to put the game to bed missing just one trophy. Locking the platinum trophy behind completing the game on hard mode which even with the limit break item doesn't always help as much as you'd like.

I get it. Some games use these challenges to test the player and draw out the game time but honestly I'm never going to get that good. I recently found out I have a genetic form of arthritis which kind of explains why I can't always be as fast as I'd like when I play games and guitar. If you're going into a game like Dark Souls and you expect an easy ride, then fool you. Cause that's the kind of game I really think is there for people who love challenging combat. But honestly some games are really cheap and it's annoying asf.

Like Spider man, I have to play through again on hard for the platinum, why? Yakuza, complete on legend mode. Metal Gear Solid, get S ranks on every mission. I could go on and I know I'm not the only that feels this way. I understand many players want a challenge and some love the thrill of beating a challenge from a harder difficulty. But if 1.5% of players get a trophy for a game that sold millions of copies, don't you think you've been a bit overkill? Like we will give up. I'd like the trophy for beating Weiss, but honestly, I'm done.
 

TintoConCasera

Gold Member
I don't care about trophies.

That said, I think it's fine if some trophy is hard as fuck to get. They are optional challenges after all, and I guess that for someone who actually cares about trophies, an easy to get trophy is worth a shit compared to one that's hard to get.

Sorry if that makes you feel excluded, but imo making them easy to get would devaluate their value.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Trophies when first unveiled leaned a lot more into this type of design. From one perspective, there isn't much point to even having a trophy if it isn't hard. It's a badge to show you accomplished something that not everyone can or did.

But it became clear years ago that it's not really viewed that way by most people. People post their truly difficult achievements online on youtube clips, or high scores, or speed runs organized by themselves.

Achievements at this point are just another built in check list to give a tiny little dopamine hit when you complete the checklist. They might as well just make them mostly easy for fans of the game to max out. They don't mean anything really; just a minor side thing to optionally do for fun.
 
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Bartski

Gold Member
 
Imagine skipping on a cool videogame because it's trophies seem hard to get. :goog_relieved:

I'm not sure it's just that, Sony said during the PS3 era that they and other publishers used trophy data to determine if another entry is viable. A game selling is great but if nobody bothered to finish it, then why make another. It's something they said about binary domain. It wasn't a huge sales success but the trophy data showed that those who bought it, more often than not finished it and continued to play after one play through. Had the sales been a little better I think they'd have done another.
 

Aenima

Member
I actually enjoyed some games that had dificulty trophies cuz made me replay the game in a total diferent way than my 1st time.
For example playing Witcher 3 in max dificulty, instead of focusing in melee combat like i did in the 1st time, i focused my skills in mind control and especially against humans i would mind controll them and let them fight eatchother while i watched the carnage.

Playing the 1st TLOU in harder difficulties was actually a superior experience than playing it on normal, it actually makes the game feel more like a survival with fewer resorces to find and also unable to sense enemies though walls. And i would probably had never tried it if was not for the trophy.

Only kind of trophies i dislike are speedruns and the ones that u get just when u grab all the collectibles that most time u need to check a video to see where they are hidden.
 
People who think they deserve trophies for participation and not effort or skill is the reason the world is so messed up right now. Awards are meaningless when the team are given out without merit.

And what if you complete the game on the mega mega hard difficulty but you only complete the main story and don't explore any of the other content?

I'm not saying games should be a breeze with no challenge but again, I have games where less than 2% of owners managed to get that trophy. Surely that shows there is a line between too hard and challenging.

There can still be a fine middle ground that it's acceptable to different types of gamers but it can't be limiting. Like I said, I don't expect to see an easy mode in Dark Souls ever. But I don't think it's fair to have boss fights or challenges that hard in games where only a select few have the time and dedication to do it.

I respect those people who go to such lengths. But I don't think a platinum trophy should be off limits because of something like a boss fight that is just that hard that it'll take months of obsession to beat. Or playing through on an even higher difficulty where you get killed in like two hits. I just don't find that fun at all.
 
Leave it to the devs to determine how they want their trophies/cheevos set up. If you skip a great game because of difficult cheevos, or purchase a game specifically for the easy platinum, then you're in the same basket of dumbassery IMO.

But hey, it's your money, and your entertainment time, you do you.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
But I don't think a platinum trophy should be off limits because of something like a boss fight that is just that hard that it'll take months of obsession to beat. Or playing through on an even higher difficulty where you get killed in like two hits. I just don't find that fun at all.
Thats very easy to solve:
Don't get the platinum trophy.
 
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01011001

Member
if achievements are handed to you by simply doing busy work, then why do they even exist?

so I not only disagree with you, I would say Achievements and Trophies should only exist as a skill test for extremely difficult stuff, otherwise they are even more pointless than they already are anyways.

what good is a trophy/achievement that is handed to you on a silver platter? what do you get out of that? "hell yeah, I did some completely pointless and boring shit! look at my platinum!!!"

tropies/achievements should have been only there for additional challenges from the very start.


I find this whole mentally so fucking dumb that anything should be doable and handed to anyone. then why does it even exist? it has zero purpose at that point
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
if achievements are handed to you by simply doing busy work, then why do they even exist?

so I not only disagree with you, I would say Achievements and Trophies should only exist as a skill test for extremely difficult stuff, otherwise they are even more pointless than they already are anyways.

what good is a trophy/achievement that is handed to you on a silver platter? what do you get out of that? "hell yeah, I did some completely pointless and boring shit! look at my platinum!!!"

tropies/achievements should have been only there for additional challenges from the very start.


I find this whole mentally so fucking dumb that anything should be doable and handed to anyone. then why does it even exist? it has zero purpose at that point
I think some people just want a checklist holding their hand, ready to explicitly tell them "Congratulations you've finished the game!". Because figuring out their own terms for beating a game gives them anxiety.
 
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Idc about unobtainable achievements. I think in GTA4 you had to be #1 on the leaderboard for one. Like more power to those who got it lol. But I'm not coming for a company for how difficult or easy their trophy/achievement is. It's a minimal part of gaming...people who buy games just for trophies...yea don't cater to them.
 

Knightime_X

Member
Difficulty settings exist for a reason.
Smh
I'm still baffled why certain communities ( and devs) fail catastrophically to grasp this practice.

*edit*
This is 100% about achievements, isn't it?

Don't stress over nonsense.
No benefit in trophies.
 
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Life hack:
>Stop bothering with trophies and achievements
>Start playing games to have fun
>Become a giga chad game enjoyer instead of a virgin achievement hunter


A true GigaChad would realize that Trophies/Achievements can add to an experience, but knows when to go for them adn when to ignore them. Only focusing on maximizing the absolute fun they can have with a game.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
A true GigaChad would realize that Trophies/Achievements can add to an experience, but knows when to go for them adn when to ignore them. Only focusing on maximizing the absolute fun they can have with a game.
True gigachads don't need a checklist telling them what to do. They'll do what they want in spite of achievements being there, not because of them.

Only circunstance where achievements are worth anything is when they hint at some easter egg or another.
 
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01011001

Member
True gigachads don't need a checklist telling them what to do. They'll do what they want in spite of achievements being there, not because of them.

it's refreshing playing older games these days where no achievements pop up and you don't even have it in the back of your mind that they're there.

I'm on a PS2 spree of games I never finished currently with the arrival of easy/good PS2 emulation on Xbox, and it's just so nice having that shit be completely out of your thoughts because it's not there
 
Pretty much what it says in the title. I commend what Naughty Dog have done with The Last of Us Part 1 in that they've dropped the difficulty trophies. I genuinely believe games are to be enjoyed by people of all difficulties and I also like collecting platinum trophies. Divisive or not, some games really are too much. Uncharted and The Last of Us are terrible for this. Meaning you have to beat the game on their absolute hardest difficulties to get the platinum trophy. Not fun guys. Not enjoyable. Makes me feel excluded in a way because I'm not going to get that good at this game. Same for Final Fantasy VII Remake Integrade. That Weiss boss fight, is fucking bullshit. You can only hurt him when he's pressured in a very small window. His attacks do mega damage. The limit break item you spend hours and hours to unlock in an equally hard fight cannot be used. He heals himself passively and he has a one hit kill that activates every five minutes that kills your entire party. Not fun man, I've been trying to do this for a couple of months now and I'm just going to put the game to bed missing just one trophy. Locking the platinum trophy behind completing the game on hard mode which even with the limit break item doesn't always help as much as you'd like.

I get it. Some games use these challenges to test the player and draw out the game time but honestly I'm never going to get that good. I recently found out I have a genetic form of arthritis which kind of explains why I can't always be as fast as I'd like when I play games and guitar. If you're going into a game like Dark Souls and you expect an easy ride, then fool you. Cause that's the kind of game I really think is there for people who love challenging combat. But honestly some games are really cheap and it's annoying asf.

Like Spider man, I have to play through again on hard for the platinum, why? Yakuza, complete on legend mode. Metal Gear Solid, get S ranks on every mission. I could go on and I know I'm not the only that feels this way. I understand many players want a challenge and some love the thrill of beating a challenge from a harder difficulty. But if 1.5% of players get a trophy for a game that sold millions of copies, don't you think you've been a bit overkill? Like we will give up. I'd like the trophy for beating Weiss, but honestly, I'm done.
Stick to The Jumping version of your favorite foods.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
it's refreshing playing older games these days where no achievements pop up and you don't even have it in the back of your mind that they're there.

I'm on a PS2 spree of games I never finished currently with the arrival of easy/good PS2 emulation on Xbox, and it's just so nice having that shit be completely out of your thoughts because it's not there
I honestly barely notice them even when i'm playing something modern, they kind just blur with the background. At most get a chuckle out of me.
 

IFireflyl

Member
And what if you complete the game on the mega mega hard difficulty but you only complete the main story and don't explore any of the other content?

I'm not saying games should be a breeze with no challenge but again, I have games where less than 2% of owners managed to get that trophy. Surely that shows there is a line between too hard and challenging.

There can still be a fine middle ground that it's acceptable to different types of gamers but it can't be limiting. Like I said, I don't expect to see an easy mode in Dark Souls ever. But I don't think it's fair to have boss fights or challenges that hard in games where only a select few have the time and dedication to do it.

I respect those people who go to such lengths. But I don't think a platinum trophy should be off limits because of something like a boss fight that is just that hard that it'll take months of obsession to beat. Or playing through on an even higher difficulty where you get killed in like two hits. I just don't find that fun at all.

What you're saying is a perfect example of entitlement. I'm not saying that to be offensive or to throw shade, so please don't take this as a personal attack. Why do you think you deserve the platinum trophy? Heck, why do you think you deserve any trophies? The trophy isn't what you're buying, and if it is then you need to step away from video games entirely because that isn't healthy.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
I'm 50/50 on it. I think some achievements/trophies should be in there that just represent progress through the game (most games seem to have these anyway), and then the rest should be of varying difficulty from easy to the absurd. I've completed the story in some games with only 75 or 100 achievement points, throw the non-achievement hunters a better bone than that. :messenger_beaming:
 
True gigachads don't need a checklist telling them what to do. They'll do what they want in spite of achievements being there, not because of them.

Only circunstance where achievements are worth anything is when they hint at some easter egg or another.
That is quite literally my point, mate.
 

unclbenn

Member
im not a trophy hunter but i do think the feature is neat. im all for having super hard trophies, im not bothered by not being able to get certain trophies because im not into meta gaming.
 
Trophies/Achievements and Leaderboards are the new high score table. High level play deserves to be recognized and incentives challenging the player further only add to gameplay and replay ability.

Modifying features to accommodate the lowest common denominator damages the overall experience.

 

sigmaZ

Member
People who play games just for trophies need counseling. Just play the core game and 100% the content. Don't devote (i.e. waste) all of that extra time on artificial challenges. I would be ok with trophies if they gave in-game rewards and such, but I just see it as an easy way to manipulate try-hards into feeling like there is more content than there is.
 

Fbh

Gold Member
Sorry man but reading the Op makes me understand why there's a market for jumping nuggets.

I couldn't care less about them, but isn't the whole point of a trophies, specially the gold ones, to acknowledge and reward you for achieving something noteworthy within the game? What's even the point if you remove the challenge from them?
A participation trophy? A reward for doing boring, easy but time consuming stuff?
 
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LordBlodgett

Gold Member
This is assuming you care about achievements. I don't play games to win virtual trophies, I play to enjoy myself. Oftentimes the challenges is part of the fun, and figuring something difficult out often gives me a rush. If some challenge exists that is not fun or is unnecessary I'm not going to do it just to get an achievement.
 
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RCU005

Member
I don’t have the platinum for Final Fantasy 7 Remake because I just haven’t been able to beat Jenova. I was able to beat every boss without too much effort and was actually fun, but Jenova is impossible for me. I have even seen these 1 min boss strategies, but haven’t been able to replicate them.

Worst of all the checkpoint is before a cutscene making it so annoying.

I can only imagine the last chapter.
The only trophy I have left is “finish the game in hard difficulty”.
 
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