mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But Nintendo is literally one of the best video games Publishers on planet Earth. That's how they get away with no caring about the latest resolution tech.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Let's Be Clear: Xbox Series S Is Microsoft's Real Next Gen Xbox
- Thread starter Tqaulity
- Start date
But Nintendo is literally one of the best video games Publishers on planet Earth. That's how they get away with no caring about the latest resolution tech.
Manstructiclops
Banned
It's amazing and hilarious. 9 months of "teraflops, teraflops, teraflops" when apparently what xbox gamers really wanted to do was barely upgrade their xbox one X, and buy a subscription service.
It just goes to show how full of shit xbots are. Anything MS announce is amazing, innovative, and the future of gaming.
?
They still have the console with the phatter cock. The Series S existence doesn't change that.
MrFunSocks
Banned
More games are bought digitally now than physically. It’s not a mistake, it’s where the market is.
As expected, clicking show ignored posts pretty much doubles the size of each page for me, pretty much all with the same concern trolling fanboys. Grow up kids, get a life.
Last edited:
No. This console is aimed at people who are less well off hence the lower spec and entry price . Such people are more likely to rely on the physical second hand market for their games because it's a cheaper way of getting games.
People with less money to spare aren't the people buying all their games digitally. No optical drive means they are completely locked out of the physical second hand market.
Yes, all the posts you disagree with are “concern trolling fanboys” aka everyone who doesn't share my opinion is wrong. Hilarious.
And they have a smaller console that will split the userbase.
All those extra teraflops now mean dick
MrFunSocks
Banned
This console isn't aimed at people who are less well off, it's aimed at the casual crowd that don't buy consoles for years because they just don't care about upgrading at a premium price. It's also aimed at those that don't have 4K tvs, which is the overwhelmingly large majority of "gamers".
I've got a 4K TV in my media room and a 1080p in the living room, and I'll replace my X and One with a SX and SS, not because I'm less well off, but because there's no need for an X on a 1080p TV.
Not all the posts I disagree with are concern trolling fanboys, but the ones I put on ignore are.
Doesn't make sense. There's nothing that suggests that the Series S is aimed at “casual” gamers. You actually have to be more technically minded to use an all-digital console and manage game data with a smaller SSD (as it will undoubtedly require the purchase of an external storage solution sooner rather than later). The Xbox experience isn't being simplified with the Series S. Microsoft has positioned it as an affordable way to jump into next gen.
Taken from the last paragraph:
Whether you are looking to upgrade your Xbox 360 or Xbox One or are new to the Xbox family, we have two great consoles to choose from this generation – the most powerful console ever built in Xbox Series X and the smallest, most affordable next generation console with Xbox Series S. On behalf of Team Xbox, thank you for making Xbox the best place to play and we can’t wait to enter the future of console gaming with you this holiday.
Introducing Xbox Series S, Delivering Next-Gen Performance in Our Smallest Xbox Ever, Available November 10 at $299 - Xbox Wire
At Team Xbox, we always strive to put you, the player, at the center of the gaming experience, letting you play how and where you want and delivering experiences for all types of players. It’s with this spirit in mind that we’re excited to introduce you to Xbox Series S, an all-digital next-gen...
news.xbox.com
The word “casual” doesn't turn up once in that announcement piece. The Series S is aimed at people who can't afford the Series X but still want a “next gen” Xbox.
Last edited:
MrFunSocks
Banned
Of course the word "casual" doesn't turn up lol. Quoting marketing now as the gospel? Come on lol.Doesn't make sense. There's nothing that suggests that the Series S is aimed at “casual” gamers. You actually have to be more technically minded to use an all-digital console and manage game data with a smaller SSD (as it will undoubtedly require the purchase of an external storage solution sooner rather than later). The Xbox experience isn't being simplified with the Series S. Microsoft has positioned it as an affordable way to jump into next gen.
Taken from the last paragraph:
Whether you are looking to upgrade your Xbox 360 or Xbox One or are new to the Xbox family, we have two great consoles to choose from this generation – the most powerful console ever built in Xbox Series X and the smallest, most affordable next generation console with Xbox Series S. On behalf of Team Xbox, thank you for making Xbox the best place to play and we can’t wait to enter the future of console gaming with you this holiday.
Everything You Need to Know about Xbox Series X and The Future of Xbox… So Far - Xbox Wire
MORE IMMERSIVE AND RESPONSIVE GAMES FROM THE WORLD’S MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE The Xbox Series X will be the ultimate console for players who want the most immersive games from a device designed, built and optimized for gaming with zero compromises. Powered by our next generation, custom designed...
The word “casual” doesn't turn up once in that announcement piece. The Series S is aimed at people who can't afford the Series X but still want a “next gen” Xbox.
Casuals are the people that will buy a console usually when they're mass market price points and have the usual cod/battlefield/fifa/madden/etc games. This is giving them that console from day 1 instead of day 1000. The price point suggests that the Series S is aimed at the "casual" gamers.
But they can get a Series X on day one too – with Microsoft's monthly payment plan.
PleaseWaitStation4
Banned
MrFunSocks
Banned
They can, but casuals generally wouldn't be wanting to sign up for a 2 year payment plan, especially when they might not want Game Pass Ultimate. Whichever way you look at it, this console is nearly half the price of the X and it's aimed at those people that don't usually buy a console until it's mass market price, not because they can't afford it, but because they're not "OMGOMGOMG I NEED NEW CONSOLE!" people.
The hardcore Sony fanboys will love your videos. Some of them even refer to you as if you were a neutral source. I mean, even you must find that a little amusing.
They take comfort from you, so I pointed him in your direction.Genuine apology though, I honestly read your name as 'King Trash' instead of 'King Thrash'. I could see how that could be interpreted as a deliberate insult, it really wasn't. I'll get it right in future should I use it again.
This situation is not even close to being similar
The Series S has the same CPU and architecture and the same (albeit smaller) SSD. It's designed from the ground up to play all Series X games at a lower res. It is purpose built.
The situation is extremely similar. Just because you say "Nah it isn't" doesn't make it less true.
You're dealing with variants that have to be considered that affect tech budget, which changes the level of complexity within development. The PS5 wins here, hands-down, as they don't have to worry about multiple SKUs. They deal with the same tech across the board, and don't have to worry about various "scaled" solutions (which, mind you, will require more than just resolution changes).
This is a typical Xbox gamer response trying to “smartly” shy away from the issue at heart aka “It was all Don Matrick’s fault” narrative. We’ve seen this response for years now. But it’s just another false premise with half truths.
The PS3 released at $499, and $599, and 1 year later vs. the Xbox 360 at $299, $399, 1 year earlier. The PS3 had an archaic online infrastructure (at the start), when the boom in gaming was social online multiplayer pioneered by MS with Xbox Live etc. Yet somehow, someway Sony was able to turn the sales war around for the PS3 (mid-gen to tail end of the gen) not just because (to use your phrase), it “repositioned” the brand with reasonable pricing, services and policies but also because it had big generation defining exclusive games up until the very end while MS was busy toying with Kinect and having exclusive droughts.
One company turned it around on the strength of its software, another did not. It really can’t get any more simple that – perfect contrast of strategies. So to say in absolute that it was never going to reverse the sales trend is a lot of B.S. There is no guarantee of sales reversal if it had done what Sony did but in the absence of it it's a foregone conclusion. Nintendo literally lives off the strength of its first party.
Deep down you know all of this….the inconvenient truths hard to digest. I don’t know why you keep pretending putting this façade. Well I do but that’s besides the point I guess.
@Kingthrash living rent free I see. Your reactions to him have been like a vampire exposed to holy water. Funny indeed.
I like to free roam. You know how it’s. Thanks but no thanks.
Again how does that negate the importance of having big exclusive games? The very exclusives gamers really want (system sellers)? In short; exclusives that differentiate your product from the competition in a meaningful way?
If I remember correctly you were the one that went off on a tangent with the “third party only matters” narrative. I didn’t invite you to it…. You invited yourself to your own nonsense and tried to downplay exclusives with low quality bait.
Now you’re like a broken record retyping the canned response a million times over while not answering the relevant question. Try again one more time.
Moreover the PS5 will have the best third party support of any console, just like the PS4 (sheer number of third party titles) + the exclusive differentiators + VR games. It’s reasonable to say the PS5 will cast a much wider net, with a stronger line too.
Polls everywhere show there is more interest in PS5 by a significant margin. And these polls are done often. Somehow all of them got it wrong? You’re pressing hard now with the false characterizations of the statements. There are such things as mood, trends etc…
But lets engage in common sense comprehension for a second here since you’re dropping low hanging fruits for me…
Is it not reasonable to say that in the eyes of the “many”(majority) the PS5 is the better product for them?
Considering the many fucks up over a 6 year period; they do. Mind you it’s not the press job to prosecute MS on a bench but the shit that flies without a beep is something to behold at times + the free verbatim marketing. I’ve said before MS would be doing something wrong if it didn’t have homecooking in the NA market.... just like the Japanese companies have homecooking in the Asian/Japanese markets. So it’s a given. I’m just saying it exists. I’m not blind to it, nor chose to be blind to it like other folks.
Failing to meet expectations after hyping something up to the moon? Living in a competitive business environment? How is it supposed to work?
The proof is in the pudding. Game got delayed, devs admitted that shit is not right, new leads got brought on board etc. The tough decision to either crater the Halo franchise forever or delay the game and release the Xbox Series Family of consoles without a big AAA first party exclusive was made. Consensus seems to be in agreement - "for the better of a shit situation all around".
Considering your tone however why do I get the impression you would be one of those diehards who would be shilling and damage controlling for that garbage if the plan to release the game this holiday was still on? Katros voice: "Don't be sorry, Be Better!"
He’s a bullshitter, and lier. Usual for a salesman, which he is. What’s wrong with pointing out the obvious. He ain’t the "gamer" savior – that much is abundantly clear by now.
Considered several times. Am I wrong? Failure to become the dominant player can only be tolerated for so long. There is a long list of corpses in MS closet outside of Windows OS, Office, and the Cloud. Who's left?
I do. The differences are really minor. Well except PS Now has a bigger library. Gamepass has the marketing, the limited time pricing offers, and “Xbox exclusives Day and Date”. The underlying business model is the same however. Digital rental service with a library of games to chose from.
You have to deal with people having different opinions than yours on the matter. It’s what it’s, no matter how much you complain about it and the adjectives you throw at it. Under a low sales regime it's likely, to me, that the Xbox Series S will lose third party support. Now go call it FUD one more time if it makes you feel better.
10 -4 = 6. 12-10 = 2. And that’s obviously the abstract of it. It's obviously more complicated than that - as has been discussed already in this thread. I do love reading the nonsense about how easy it’s to downscale. It's either a downscale or upscale. And no dev likes to do either if they can help it... even if it has gotten "easier".
A Multiplayer Designer
@infinityward (aka COD dev).
https://twitter.com/DavidMickner
The truth shall set us free.
I’m getting led down a rabbit hole here aren’t I? My fault for taking your points at face value. Internet polls, what happened to the 360 and PS3, how much you hate MS and Spencer? Really couldn't care less about any of that, I shouldn't have got sucked in.
I’m going to distill this back to the points that we were actually supposed to be addressing…
1) Series S will have access to the biggest and most popular games given the fact that nearly all games are third-party. Third party games are the biggest and most popular games, according to NPD.
2) Series S will have the same third-party support as Series X and MS will mandate it.
The Series S has the same CPU, SSD and architecture as the Series X, it's nothing like the difference between a console with a hard-drive and one without, which is the comparison you tried to make.
Third-party games have to deal with multiple targets already, Series S is purpose built to accept Series X games with resolution scaling. Why invent hurdles that don't exist?
Knitted Knight
Banned
Don't start something you can't finish. My advice to you going forward the next time you consider baiting me with low quality garbage. Don't complain.
Last edited:
You really do flatter yourself, but ignorance and egotism often go hand in hand.
You seem to have given up on the 'Series S won't be supported by third-parties' FUD?
Good, that's sensible.
Night.Ninja
Banned
To me its the same as last gen just with more power full consoles
danielJackson
Banned
More digital > physical doesnt equal into people dont need disc drive
More statistics are needed:
How many never use discs
How many use digital and physical
How many use disc drive a little
How many use disc drive for movies
And so on.
If 80%* still use/want discs, full digital is not working. *Made up number
Point: while digital sells more, it doesnt in any way mean that people wont also use discs in the same time
Why are you and so many just repeating this "just lower the resolution, no big deal" mantra?
Dont you even consider the scenario where series x runs game on "lower" resolution like 1080-1440p, and upscales it, to get more detailed graphics?
Then explain how do devs "just drop the resolution" if it would mean going from 1080p to under 1080p? In worst case scenario? Sell 720p games like Nintendo?
Or do you believe that ALL games are forced to be 4k on series x?
In that case, PS5 can easily have better looking games if it renders at less than 4k and upscales it.
One 1080p system and one 4k kind of removes options between
Last edited:
CobraAB
Member
very true.
Humdinger
Member
I wonder how often that will happen -- people buying the S will run out of space, then be faced with either continually deleting old games to make room for new ones, or buying an external drive. Those run, what, about $100 or 150? That would wipe out a lot of their cost savings.
Last edited:
Ascend
Member
That's not going to happen. Sub-4k, maybe. But not anything lower than 1440p for the series X.
If your argument for upscaling works for 1080p to 4k, why wouldn't it work for 720p to 1080p?
Knitted Knight
Banned
I asked you to provide a quote where I made such a statement without the proper context (since I've made it for quite some time now all over Gaf). The obvious being that statements taken out of context can be made to look or mean anything. Noticing the obvious trap you willfully got yourself into you spun it and called it weasel words (and a variety of other adjectives) when left with no alternative but to admit the obvious. You simply mischaracterized a statement I made to suit a strawman argument - the third party narrative (poor one at that which was easy to play with) and you also took a dumb cheap shot to incite a response because what I said triggered the Xbox fanboy rage in you. You even brough KingThrash to the mix... considering your history with him, I doubt he genuinely believes your response - everyone can read between the lines. I think it says a lot when a reasonable statement when read in proper context solicits such crazy emotions. Which is why no other poster to date has had such response on the various threads I've said this. Can't say I didn't enjoy the ride going over all the failed talking points and exhausted narratives of the past to excuse failure.
Last edited:
spons
Gold Member
Mass market = game pass/70% or something buys digital anyway.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So.... 12TF True FoKay is not the bees knees?
HarryKS
Member
That's the front-loaded audience. Mass market still goes for used games.
DaGwaphics
Member
Goes to look at GameStop financials...
Houston, we have a problem. The "front-loaded" audience is no longer buying disk games and thus eliminating availability...
Yeah, considering next gen game sizes, they will have to have some kind of external storage if they want more than a few games on the internal drive. Frequent deletions and reinstalls would happen less often if you get the proprietary Xbox expansion SSD card, but that rumoured to be around $200, so it would instantly wipe out any savings made from buying the Series S.
I dunno where this idea that all digital consoles are better for people with less money has come from. The low entry price is misleading. In the long run, it will be more expensive since everything has to come from the digital store or a
continual GamePass subscription, to say nothing of the high-speed internet connection that will undoubtedly be required to download 100GB+ games within a reasonable time frame. With Series S, you're completely locked out of picking up cheap compatible physical Xbox games from eBay, Amazon, etc. I just don't get how that's supposed to be a good thing from a consumer perspective.
dano1
A Sheep
Humdinger
Member
I heard that you can only use the proprietary drives, and they're going to be $220.
I have to imagine that with the size of games these days, together with the fact that this is an all-digital (i.e., all download) console, with a heavy emphasis on Gamepass (i.e., a large quantity of games being downloaded), that people are going to be running into this problem pretty often. Like you say, if they buy additional storage, that wipes out any savings. They've paid the same as an XSX and gotten a much weaker console.
Yeah, it kind of sounds like there are some hidden costs. In addition to the storage problem, I agree that being locked into all-digital is not necessarily a bargain either. You can get some deals on games digitally, but you have to get the timing right. If you have options to buy used games on amazon etc., you can get them anytime for pretty cheap. You can also resell them if you like, not an option with digital.
You must have once increased a 360 hard drive too. Back then even Apple would have blushed at the propriety hard drive costs.
Vol5
Member
Until MS show comparisons of next-gen games against XSX, I'm doubtful on the capability of XSS.
I have a feeling when it's in peoples homes the difference between it and current-gen could be minimal, but I trust MS implicitly with showing fuck all again, so no need to worry I guess.
I have a feeling when it's in peoples homes the difference between it and current-gen could be minimal, but I trust MS implicitly with showing fuck all again, so no need to worry I guess.
The Hamburglar
Banned
100hz On the cpu is nothing JesusChrist.
Have you seen the memory in the series s? Stfu and read before you console war
Yup. Not even the best digital sales can compare to the prices in the physical second hand market. In my view, an optical drive is essential for gamers with less money to spare. Bargains are everywhere when it comes to physical games. They really should have kept the drive.
Last edited:
anothertech
Member
Craig
NoMoChokeSJ
Banned
These kind of bargains are the used game market which do nothing for MS or Sony financially. Going digital only ensures that they'll get a significant chunk off every purchase. They aren't looking to enable gamers to play cheaply, they are looking to make $$.
trikster40
Member
I’m starting to think that MS sole purpose for the S is not to steal Sony customers but rather be that second console that a lot of people are going to buy due to the cost. MS doesn’t care how many they sell of if they sell more than Sony, but if they can get customers to buy the S, buy into the Xbox ecosystem and GamePass, that’s what they want.
MrFunSocks
Banned
I'd argue that Game Pass is even better for gamers with less money to spare though.
I'm not going to be baited again, though it would be nice if you at least used the reply button when you respond to my posts so that I'd get an alert when you reply. Or is it a 'last word in by stealth' strategy?
BTW, Paragraphs are your friend.
DavidGzz
Member
Exactly, so even the people who can't throw down $500 at launch who have a lot of physical games and are more likely to buy physical games can get the console with a drive. Problem solved. MS has options and a great value for gamers.
PS5 DE will also be the cheaper console and it also lacks a disc drive. Where is the concern for it? At least Xbox has Game Pass where you get first party games day and date for a cheap sub. Now they also have EA Play.
Last edited:
Knitted Knight
Banned
I quoted your post like I do to every single person here. Hit the quote link, then reply on the bottom window. You're looking way too deep into this. Anyone that reads that statement with a cool head will understand the point - whether agreeing with it or disagreeing. Obviously if you're on edge you'll react to it negatively on a rush (and that's of course if I were to give the benefit of the doubt.... knowing you, and the way the response was crafted - I say no chance). I agree that there's not much else that needs to be said.
Last edited:
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Now that it's official, I just want to confirm what we should already know: the Xbox Series S is Microsoft's real next gen console. Back in E3 in 2018 when Phil mentioned "Xbox consoles" in reference to next gen, this is what he was talking about. However, Microsoft smartly focused on the Xbox Series X first mainly from a marketing perspective because they realized that the enthusiast crowd were the ones paying most attention in the build up to launch and (we) would not be nearly as excited for a paired down next gen console. In other words, they did not want to repeat the mistakes made with messaging for the Xbox One back in 2013 (TV integration be damned!).
So here we are and now that's it's official let's make a few things clear:
They held off as long as they could but THIS is Microsoft's true next gen plan in action. Appeal to wide audience, get as many users on GamePass as possible, claim the performance "Halo" for the enthusiast gamer (Series X), and lead in hardware and software sales in console space. Will it work? Depends on a lot including marketing, games, and how Sony handles their end (price, games etc). But it will be an interesting first few years to next gen for sure
- The Xbox Series S IS the baseline/default for next gen Xbox! This is true both from technical and marketing perspective:
- This is the product that will appeal to the widest audience making the entry to Gamepass ecosystem much more enticing at $299
- This console is a obvious evolution of the Xbox One S (white color and all), which is the most popular Xbox One console that people will "get" in terms of an upgrade path
- This console stands on it's own in terms of it's value (whereas the Series X does not distinguish itself enough from a gaming PC for that same enthusiast crowd)
- Technically, this spec WILL BE the baseline for next gen on Xbox. Any developer making a game for Xbox, will be starting from Series S and scale across Series X/PC etc). Series S is only 1/3 the GPU power of Series X and less than 1/2 the GPU power of PS5. This WILL BE a factor when looking at exclusive next gen 'Xbox' games versus 'PlayStation' games going forward!
- This confirms that the Series S and Series X are analogous to the One S and One X (just releasing at the same time) insofar as the 'X' versions are simply playing games designed for the 'S' at higher resolutions and/or framerates. Since the Series S has all of the core capabilities of the Series X (ray-tracing, Zen2 CPU, Velocity Architecture etc), it is clear that the Series X will be nothing more than a high resolution Series S (much like the One X was to the One S). Again no "exclusively designed" games for the high end Xbox: when Microsoft talks about allowing exclusive next gen games in 2 years or so, (they couldn't say it before) they are referring to the Series S/X together meaning Series S is the baseline.
- The combination of Series X and Series S can absolutely give Sony a run for it's money in terms of hardware sales compared to PS5. Assuming PS5 is much more expensive than the $299 price point of Series S, the Series S will be much more appealing to more casual gamers especially in the Western markets
- This whole strategy of one unified ecosystem with multiple console, XCloud, and PC WILL BE confusing to a large number of consumers (and developers for that matter). Xbox One, One S, One X, Xcloud, Series S, Series X all playing the same games?! What?! Many consumers will purchase the Series S thinking they got the only "next gen Xbox", many will be confused as to how both the Series S and Series X compare to the One X, and many will mistakenly buy one console over another
