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Jason Schreier: Sony’s Obsession With Blockbusters Is Stirring Unrest Within PlayStation Empire

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I don't understand.

Jason said Bend will become a Naughty Dog studio. Did it happen? No. It didn't. Bend is working on its own IP. So he was obviously wrong with his assumption.
Jeff said that Bend would not become an ND studio. It didn't. He was right.

Why are people bombasting Jeff here?
Jason didn't say Bend will become a Naughty Dog studio. He say that "Naughty Dog North" is a nickname for Bend. There's no need to twist his word and force a contradiction here.

And Jeff has left Bend. He wouldn't know what's going to happen there in the future.
 
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Jason didn't say Bend will become a Naughty Dog studio. He say that "Naughty Dog North" is a nickname for Bend. There's no need to twist his word and force a contradiction here.

And Jeff has left Bend. He wouldn't know what's going to happen there in the future.
"Bend's developers feared they might be absorbed into Naughty Dog, and the studio’s leadership asked to be taken off the Uncharted project."

I mean, he's clearly trying to paint a narrative that it was a real risk, whereas Jeff said on the podcast that it was absolutely false. Maybe it would have been better if Jason tried to speak to senior members of the studio, not what was likely a couple of disgruntled ex-employees with a bone to pick?
 
those are outsourced studios in third world countries like india that cost pennies compared to western studios. every studio uses them. witcher 3 also outsourced to over 1500 people and the total cost of the game was around $81 million more than half of which was the marketing budget.

and naughty dog made 2 games after tlou part 1. u4 and uLL. both games had the entire studio working on it with a small skeleton crew doing preproduction work for tlou2. tlou 2 started production in august 2017. the game came out in june 2020. its actual dev time was a little less than 3 years.

2013-2016 costs to run the studio was uncharted 4's budget.
2016-2017 costs to run the studio was Uncharted lost legacy's budget.
2017-2020 was tlou2's budget.

i dont care if you are in silicon valley or los angeles. it doesnt cost $66 million a year to run a company of 350 devs. you are looking at half that.
Wait a minute, all these numbers are from where? I'm not saying you're wrong but you can't possibly know how much TLOU2 cost in total, posting a long response with specutaltive numbers is nothing more than fluff.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
"Bend's developers feared they might be absorbed into Naughty Dog, and the studio’s leadership asked to be taken off the Uncharted project."

I mean, he's clearly trying to paint a narrative that it was a real risk, whereas Jeff said on the podcast that it was absolutely false. Maybe it would have been better if Jason tried to speak to senior members of the studio, not what was likely a couple of disgruntled ex-employees with a bone to pick?

I mean he still didn't say Bend is literally becoming a Naughty Dog studio though.
 
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I mean he still didn't say Bend is literally becoming a Naughty Dog studio though.
No, he didn't, but he tried to disingenuously paint a picture that there a real risk of it happening and that there is unrest at Bend and other Sony studios, when Jeff came out and said there was no chance of Bend being absorbed into ND, supporting them on their game was good as it meant there were no layoffs between projects at Bend, Sony are still taking the full hands-off approach with creative freedom for their devs and basically nothing at all has changed from their prior approach.

It's clear Jason's article was designed to try to push a narrative that would cause drama, but in fact, everything that was in his article was totally normal by industry standards, and nothing is wrong at PS Studios. I expect Bloomberg reporting to be above this kind of 'tabloid' style drama reporting... I mean look at the narrative that the headline even tries to push!
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Jason didn't say Bend will become a Naughty Dog studio. He say that "Naughty Dog North" is a nickname for Bend. There's no need to twist his word and force a contradiction here.

And Jeff has left Bend. He wouldn't know what's going to happen there in the future.
"Bend's developers feared they might be absorbed into Naughty Dog, and the studio’s leadership asked to be taken off the Uncharted project."

I mean, he's clearly trying to paint a narrative that it was a real risk, whereas Jeff said on the podcast that it was absolutely false. Maybe it would have been better if Jason tried to speak to senior members of the studio, not what was likely a couple of disgruntled ex-employees with a bone to pick?
AdjudicatorHead AdjudicatorHead has already answered your question, ArtHands ArtHands .

Jason clearly painted this in a negative light, implying that there was a genuine concern that Bend Studios will either absorbed by Naughty Dog or only working on Naughty Dog IPs. None of those things happened, and Bend Studios is currently working on their own brand-new IP. This also shows that Sony trusts Bend Studios enough -- they just didn't trust the Days Gone IP enough.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
But....



:messenger_tears_of_joy:

Wonder what Jeff would say to Bryan.

Bryan is our brother and friend and his frustration is understandable like many other genuine members here, but let's not forget that Jeff spoke highly of both Jim and Hermen and how overall Sony treats studios with care and respect like no other in the industry.

AdjudicatorHead AdjudicatorHead has already answered your question, ArtHands ArtHands .

Jason clearly painted this in a negative light, implying that there was a genuine concern that Bend Studios will either absorbed by Naughty Dog or only working on Naughty Dog IPs. None of those things happened, and Bend Studios is currently working on their own brand-new IP. This also shows that Sony trusts Bend Studios enough -- they just didn't trust the Days Gone IP enough.

They are working on their biggest project ever with their new IP, that's a bold statement. If they're not well respected that won't happen. Kojima side of things I believe he costs Sony too much with spending money on top tier actors and so much unnecessary money bleeding then sales didn't meet expectations although I loved Death Stranding but let's face it it's full of flaws. Sony helped his studio stand up and he refused to part of the PS Studios and that's respected. Now it's time for him to stand for himself without babysitting if he's not willing to be under Sony's umbrella as they done him more than enough already. Love Kojima but that's the reality of things.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
They are working in their biggest project ever with their new IP, that's a bold statement. If they're not well respected that won't happen. Kojima side of things I believe he costs Sony too much with spending money on top tier actors and so much unnecessary money bleeding then sales didn't meet expectations although I loved Death Stranding but let's face it it's full of flaws. Sony helped his studio stand up and he refused to part of the PS Studios and that's respected. Now it's time for him to stand for himself without babysitting if he's not willing to under Sony's umbrella as they done him more than enough already. Love Kojima but that's the reality of things.
I agree.

And not being salty just because I can't play my next KJP game on my PS5 (I'll just play it on my PC or XSX lol), so I won't start throwing shit on KJP. I loved Death Stranding, and it was my GOTY 2019.

But it's also pretty clear, based on available data, that Death Stranding had a lower ROI than Days Gone. And if Days Gone 2 didn't get the green light, I doubt how the next KJP game (which is rumored to be episodic and leverages the power the cloud*) will get a go-ahead -- because that's so unlike Sony.

I know people are shitting on Jim Ryan and just blindly praising Shawn Layden (I really liked Shawn as well) but it is completely unfair. Why are they forgetting that it was under Shawn's leadership, Insomniac had Sunset Overdrive published under MS and several VR games for Oculus, a direct competitor of PSVR2? Now Sony owns Insomniac.

I'm planning to do a thread on this (and can't wait to be dubbed as a Sony Pony defensive force)
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
I mean he still didn't say Bend is literally becoming a Naughty Dog studio though.
Influencers and credible journalists with lots of following need to choose their words very carefully. They will never say anything outright definitive, but even their assumptions have weightage.

For a second, assume I am a credible journalist with a huge following, and I say something like "MS has taken a huge risk with GamePass and Bethesda acquisition. There is a strong fear among first-party studios that if Gamepass doesn't hit X million subscribers by 2023, MS may force Xbox to double its price or close down Gamepass and sell Bethesda to the highest bidder in an attempt to recoup its cost."

Imagine the panic. That'd be so irresponsible of me. And technically, I never said that MS will do this. I said it may. And may is perfectly fine because it represents the uncertain future.

But that'd be very irresponsible of me as a journalist.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
I agree.

And not being salty just because I can't play my next KJP game on my PS5 (I'll just play it on my PC or XSX lol), so I won't start throwing shit on KJP. I loved Death Stranding, and it was my GOTY 2019.

But it's also pretty clear, based on available data, that Death Stranding had a lower ROI than Days Gone. And if Days Gone 2 didn't get the green light, I doubt how the next KJP game (which is rumored to be episodic and leverages the power the cloud*) will get a go-ahead -- because that's so unlike Sony.

I know people are shitting on Jim Ryan and just blindly praising Shawn Layden (I really liked Shawn as well) but it is completely unfair. Why are they forgetting that it was under Shawn's leadership, Insomniac had Sunset Overdrive published under MS and several VR games for Oculus, a direct competitor of PSVR2? Now Sony owns Insomniac.

I'm planning to do a thread on this (and can't wait to be dubbed as a Sony Pony defensive force)

I doubt Kojima would waste his time with Xbox, one of the worst game publishers out there for his kind of games that are heavily story-driven. If anything he'll go multiplat.
 

tassletine

Member
And Jason Schreir's obsession with taking on large companies is just stirring shit, then throwing it out to the public, like some frustrated Gorilla.

A sort of shit politician, wishes he could be part of it, Michael Moore / Alex Jones type.


 

Papacheeks

Banned
I doubt Kojima would waste his time with Xbox, one of the worst game publishers out there for his kind of games that are heavily story-driven. If anything he'll go multiplat.
Kojima has had an ok relationship with people like Phil. And seeing how much they are spending, and how much they are saying yes to basically everything kind of makes it the best place for his game. If Sony, Stadia rejected it, then maybe the format doesnt work for them, but maybe with a service like Gamepass works?

Like waiting for new show episodes.

Kojia Pro has multiple projects not just one. So to say we've seen the last of Kojima/Sony collabs is really just XBox cheer leaders trying to throw fud. Your going to see Koji Pro be very nimble when it comes to putting their games out on different platforms.
Bryan is our brother and friend and his frustration is understandable like many other genuine members here, but let's not forget that Jeff spoke highly of both Jim and Hermen and how overall Sony treats studios with care and respect like no other in the industry.



They are working on their biggest project ever with their new IP, that's a bold statement. If they're not well respected that won't happen. Kojima side of things I believe he costs Sony too much with spending money on top tier actors and so much unnecessary money bleeding then sales didn't meet expectations although I loved Death Stranding but let's face it it's full of flaws. Sony helped his studio stand up and he refused to part of the PS Studios and that's respected. Now it's time for him to stand for himself without babysitting if he's not willing to be under Sony's umbrella as they done him more than enough already. Love Kojima but that's the reality of things.

You got to pay attention more to articles man. I work with multple TV stations sometimes on projects. Sometimes a company will see certain stations with a lot of down time, and then send them some beta testing equpment to get feedback.

It's no different than what Jason iterated on. You've got around 120-130 people at a studio. Days gone was 100% finished by fall of 2019 in terms of bug fixing and optimization patches. So you had even after it launched a lot of the art department and people of the likes just helping out support wise. But not working on anything. So they sent them some things to work on from ND. As time went on obviously there were people that had already had a game concept ready to go forward with. SO "those" people with that project pushed back, and now are working on a new title. There is nothing in his article that talks about the "entire" studio working on a new IP. Currently it's in early phase IE: conception, prototyping phase. So they are not in full production on the title by that time. They could be now 2021, but it depends if they are building everything from scratch or if this was a previous scraped project. Currently sounds like the studio is split talent wise.

And once the game is in a playable form to show to Hermen and the likes more than likely rest of the studio will join for full production.
 
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Humdinger

Member
Which problems??? Because MLB?

I can remember them months ago, when he announced that a lot of the PS5 titles would be cross-gen. We had a lot of "lyin' Jim Ryan" memes, and people were none too pleased. More recently, there have been probably a dozen threads complaining about him. I avoided those threads, because I don't like all that negativity in my diet, but I know some of the issues involved studio closures, the MLB issue, and shutting down the PS3 store. I can't give a complete list, but I'm sure there are plenty of other people who could, or you could just dig into those threads yourself. But even without knowing all the details, it was clear to me, just from all the thread titles and posts, that Jim Ryan was going over like a turd in a punchbowl. Arguably, things are worse right now than they have been in the past, but it's been going on for a while.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
I can remember them months ago, when he announced that a lot of the PS5 titles would be cross-gen. We had a lot of "lyin' Jim Ryan" memes, and people were none too pleased. More recently, there have been probably a dozen threads complaining about him. I avoided those threads, because I don't like all that negativity in my diet, but I know some of the issues involved studio closures, the MLB issue, and shutting down the PS3 store. I can't give a complete list, but I'm sure there are plenty of other people who could, or you could just dig into those threads yourself. But even without knowing all the details, it was clear to me, just from all the thread titles and posts, that Jim Ryan was going over like a turd in a punchbowl. Arguably, things are worse right now than they have been in the past, but it's been going on for a while.

I think the main issue with Jim is he's a suit, regardless if he's been with Sony for a long time. He doesn't come from the same cloth as Scott Rohde or Shawn Layden. And even though those guys are also in similar management positions, they have a background in game software.

Ryan has a background in sales for overall Sony. Not a bad thing when it comes to making smart business decisions. Similar to others who came before him, but almost everyone that came before had a better idea of Playstation because of their close relationships with specific people within the division.
Jim Ryan comes off as someone who worked close with Kodera, and to an extent KAZ. But in terms of interactions with teams, people like Shue or Scott rohde on a long term playing games basis, thats a big no.

I mean he knows the business, he knows Playstation as a brand, where his hate comes from is the way he comes off as tone deaf to the hardcore crowd. And I dont mean that he isn't making smart decisions that will benefit the brand. I Mean as in communicating what those decisions are and what they will shape for consumers in the future.
The whole "he killed PS3/VITA" store is utter none sense, it was in the cards in 2016. Gio Corsi I believe knew about this stuff. Which is why he left in 2016 or around there. He was the VITA/PSP guy you saw at E3/PSX. All Jim ryan is doing is stream lining more.

Now will that be bad or good for long term? Who knows. But I believe they have weighed the impact of having internal AA teams vs contracting indie to take up that space. It seems more cost effective to do a deal with a developer for a couple million on a game like Kena, then to have Pixelopus make it internally which might cost more long term.
Less risk involved. ANd also keeps shue super busy. He's literally flying all around the world or contacting these developers who he thinks are making things that would fit well on Playstation.
It sucks the days of smaller AA games are kind of a thing of the past like Journey. But look at how many indies are making games like that? The pathless is fantastic. Would Sony have made more money or less making that internally?

I mean when we see a Don mattrick response from Jim, then you can siren the alarm. But I dont think that will happen. And honestly once we hear from them this summer I think a lot of the fear mongering will be silenced. Bend is in no danger of closing, sky isn't falling.
Sometimes things dont work out or go as planned. And with all the hits from all their Developers they've had, one game didn't hit the mark 100%, and another studio that was created didn't seem to get off the ground on the right footing. And people should be happy Hermen is the man he is, he seems to know workflows for studios. So they intervened very early, meaning instead of making a game for 4-5 years to have it fail or close the studio.

I think Jason puts too much emphasis on things that are basically a natural environment in Video game development. Which is things can change in a moments notice. Not everything goes according to plan, not every vertical or proof of concept sometimes makes it out the door.
 
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Keihart

Member
Jeff's take on Jim Ryan and Herman Hulst, and he praises both and says that Jim is a game savvy not like some people think that he's a suit and tells a small story about him and praises the mastermind Hulst. Watch for like 6-7min from this timestamp:


You are over selling it, Jeff only gives them the benefit of the doubt and even agrees in that Jim and Ryan are more of suits than their predecessors.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
You are over selling it, Jeff only gives them the benefit of the doubt and even agrees in that Jim and Ryan are more of suits than their predecessors.

I dont think so. Jim worked in sales, you dont think when looking at Sony's other products, tv/film/music/tech that a leak kills your stocks or an impact when not revealed properly? I have some things you can go look up about Steve Jobs who was exactly the same way. He would fire people on the spot or threaten to if he heard anyone talking to press before they were ready. Same goes for people taking pictures of Apple products before they are ready.

Why do you think no one within Sony had seen the PS5 besides only a couple of people? It was literally locked into a vault on floor people didn't know existed. You think Sony is the only company that hates leakes?

Jimbo knows what happens to products that are leaked early especially if it's meant for internal eyes as in it's not a finished product. Jeff also has a bachelors in business. He knows that jim being a suit that the products mean everything, and that developers video game/movie/music dont want their things revealed before they are ready.

So enforcing that "this is for our eyes only" is key to respecting not only your company bottom line, but the people who make it that said product who are not business people. And are nervous as fuck to show off a 4-5 year project to a bunch of people who can literally make them jobless in a snap.

It shows respect.
 
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The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
“You know Ellie, this really is the last remaster.”
CaringSmugInsect-small.gif
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Jim Ryan going to sink this ship faster than Don Mattrick tvtvtv.

I've ALWAYS disagreed with you guys that think Jim Ryan is killing PlayStation (as a brand), but now I'm starting to wonder if yall are right. Jebus Christ man! A Days Gone 2 is a simple NO BRAINER! I didn't like the game, but I would tell anyone to play it. And I'd greenlight a sequel in a heartbeat.
 
That's right, they are completely broke...

They just made more than Amazon did in 2018 and almost as much as Amazon did in 2019 but they amazingly have no cash....as you say!
Weird comparison since Amazon's margins are razor thin. You're also wrong, Amazon had more operating income than Sony.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I've ALWAYS disagreed with you guys that think Jim Ryan is killing PlayStation (as a brand), but now I'm starting to wonder if yall are right. Jebus Christ man! A Days Gone 2 is a simple NO BRAINER! I didn't like the game, but I would tell anyone to play it. And I'd greenlight a sequel in a heartbeat.
Imagine spending 7 years making a new IP and even though it sold 5 million, cancelling the sequel because feminist journalists didnt give it a good review.
 

Keihart

Member
I dont think so. Jim worked in sales, you dont think when looking at Sony's other products, tv/film/music/tech that a leak kills your stocks or an impact when not revealed properly? I have some things you can go look up about Steve Jobs who was exactly the same way. He would fire people on the spot or threaten to if he heard anyone talking to press before they were ready. Same goes for people taking pictures of Apple products before they are ready.

Why do you think no one within Sony had seen the PS5 besides only a couple of people? It was literally locked into a vault on floor people didn't know existed. You think Sony is the only company that hates leakes?

Jimbo knows what happens to products that are leaked early especially if it's meant for internal eyes as in it's not a finished product. Jeff also has a bachelors in business. He knows that jim being a suit that the products mean everything, and that developers video game/movie/music dont want their things revealed before they are ready.

So enforcing that "this is for our eyes only" is key to respecting not only your company bottom line, but the people who make it that said product who are not business people. And are nervous as fuck to show off a 4-5 year project to a bunch of people who can literally make them jobless in a snap.

It shows respect.
So? That's the reason why any big company in the world has specific clauses for critical internal information, it's not like news at eleven or some hidden wisdom.
I was commenting on the fact that the only thing Jeff comments about Jimbo it's that anecdote and that he thinks he deserves the benefit of the doubt. He is not praising him exactly, now, when you hear him talk about Shawn? There he gives compliments left and right thus why i said "overselling it "

Personally i was more interested in some insight into Shu and Hermen (although there wasn't much of it if any), everyone knows Jimbo it's mostly a suit, he needed to wear the persona of a suit to be successful at his past jobs. But Shu's and Hermen's job it's quite different and requires to be really in touch with games.

I like to Joke that everything it's Jimbos fault, but he probably it's just bending over backwards to make the big wigs that hold the money happy, i doubt he was put in the job as a visionary but more so as a puppet that would facilitate the interest of the board, but Hermen it's the one that has to convince Jimbo of what it's worth a fight in WWS.
 

Interfectum

Member
I've ALWAYS disagreed with you guys that think Jim Ryan is killing PlayStation (as a brand), but now I'm starting to wonder if yall are right. Jebus Christ man! A Days Gone 2 is a simple NO BRAINER! I didn't like the game, but I would tell anyone to play it. And I'd greenlight a sequel in a heartbeat.
I don't understand this. Sony has zombies and open world already covered. Isn't one of the main critiques of PS Studios is all of their games have too much overlap? When they cancel one of the most egregious examples Jim Ryan is killing the brand? Eh?

I feel like this game is being used as some kind of political proxy war, anyway.
 
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ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Influencers and credible journalists with lots of following need to choose their words very carefully. They will never say anything outright definitive, but even their assumptions have weightage.

For a second, assume I am a credible journalist with a huge following, and I say something like "MS has taken a huge risk with GamePass and Bethesda acquisition. There is a strong fear among first-party studios that if Gamepass doesn't hit X million subscribers by 2023, MS may force Xbox to double its price or close down Gamepass and sell Bethesda to the highest bidder in an attempt to recoup its cost."

Imagine the panic. That'd be so irresponsible of me. And technically, I never said that MS will do this. I said it may. And may is perfectly fine because it represents the uncertain future.

But that'd be very irresponsible of me as a journalist.

I wouldn't say that's irresponsible, and as you said its all assumption given the wordings. So I wouldn't say that's irresponsible. I'll say blame the people if they over assume things.
 

Keihart

Member
I don't understand this. Sony has zombies and open world already covered. Isn't one of the main critiques of PS Studios is all of their games have too much overlap? When they cancel one of the most egregious examples Jim Ryan is killing the brand? Eh?

I feel like this game is being used as some kind of political proxy war, anyway.
As long as Bend gets to do something they want i think it's ok, being stuck as ND's helper would of been the real tragedy i think, they are better of doing their own thing.
Not a fan of Days Gone tho, i think it played to much like TLoU while not being enough like it.

I'm all for less ubisoft in WWS ( or should i say "Playstation Studios" now?) and more Death Stranding/TLG. Maybe not the best sellers but for me TLG and DS are up there in my favorite PS games of the generation besides TLoU2.

Also, i won't waste a post without saying that fuck Hermen Ryan, they kill babies and drown kitties.
 
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Bryank75

Banned
Weird comparison since Amazon's margins are razor thin. You're also wrong, Amazon had more operating income than Sony.
I'm comparing this year of Sony (which is expected to net over 10 billion) to Amazon 2018 and 2019... so I am not wrong. I am 100% accurate.

Not a weird comparison...since Sony is a huge electronics company too and margins are thin there too, it's highly competitive.
 
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Bryank75

Banned
AMZN operating income was $12.4B in 2018 and $14.5B in 2019.

I meant 2017 & 2018....

Sorry, I'm doing other stuff here and picked the wrong two when I went to type.

But also I'd point out that Amazon is a mix of high tech and traditional businesses, much like Sony. I think they are far more comparable than MSFT and Sony.
 
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I meant 2017 & 2018....

Sorry, I'm doing other stuff here and picked the wrong two when I went to type.
net income != operating income
 

yurinka

Member
"Bend's developers feared they might be absorbed into Naughty Dog, and the studio’s leadership asked to be taken off the Uncharted project."

I mean, he's clearly trying to paint a narrative that it was a real risk, whereas Jeff said on the podcast that it was absolutely false. Maybe it would have been better if Jason tried to speak to senior members of the studio, not what was likely a couple of disgruntled ex-employees with a bone to pick?
Totally agree with this. In addition to debunk the idea of them being worried about being absorved into ND, Jeff also mentioned Bend always had a friendly relationship with ND since many years ago, even if like in any job sometimes there are a few understandable pains.

Jeff also obviously didn't directly talk about stuff covered by NDA (like Bend's work on unannounced games like Uncharted and the factions game or if DG2 is cancelled or not). But said that even if the article has unaccurate things and some versions of the story that are differents what he knows/experienced, the article is legit so many of the things it says are true. But also hinted that some IPs that have been to sleep may wake up later, like saying that they canned DG2 but can continue with it later.

So maybe they did put DG2 on the fridge (who knows if to wait the release of UE5 and after growing the studio a bit more to have two game tracks) to help ND with the couple of projects mentioned in the article, and started to work on a Bend new IP and maybe later they continue working on DG2.

He also mentioned that the reason of him leaving wasn't related to the state of DG2 or any specific project. It was related to him being 50 years old and wanting to release at least couple of games more before retiring, and DG took almost a decade, so wanted to move to something smaller. He also mentioned that he had been working during decades on smaller games with another workflow different than the workflow needed for the current huge AAAs, and that he's more comfortable with the one that have smaller sized projects as the one he did before, so prefered to move elsewhere where they work in that way.

He had good words for his bosses like the guys in charge of worldwide studios (like Herman or Yoshida before him), boss of SIE America (Shawn) or ND bosses like Druckmann. Didn't go too much into detail with Ryan because only saw him once and most of the time Jeff worked there Ryan wasn't his boss (was handling Europe instead), but says Ryan may not be a gamer but that it's ok because he seems to be a great businessman and Sony also needs this kind of profile on these executive positions.
 
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Yes, I know... that's why I used the word Net previously...

Net is the actual money left after everything is taken into account..... I mean tax and all of that is important.
I'd be surprised if Sony reached $10b in net income this year. I guess we'll see. $10b in operating income seems doable.
 

yurinka

Member
btw next Bend game can be last if its not major hit (evolution studio history once again)
Bullshit. Unlike Evolution, Bend makes profitable games.

This includes Days Gone, that we don't know its exact sales numbers but Jeff confirmed it's above 5 million. And it has the PC port coming, and said that at least during the few weeks was a top played game out of the PS Plus Collection titles (he left a bit later, so doesn't know how it performed there).

Said Sony was supportive with DG and that they were happy with it even if it had a relatively low Metacritic, which was DG's results main weak point. Sales and fan feedback was good.

And their previous game before DG was one of the best selling Vita games.
 
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sncvsrtoip

Member
Bullshit. Unlike Evolution, Bend makes profitable games.

This includes Days Gone, that we don't know its exact sales numbers but Jeff confirmed it's above 5 million. And it has the PC port coming, and said that at least during the few weeks was a top played game out of the PS Plus Collection titles (he left a bit later, so doesn't know how it performed there).
are we sure driveclub wasn't profitable ? I've found it sold over 2m and I don't think it budget was as big as open world game. edit: also according to 2019 article "According to player trophy information, 2014’s Driveclub has the largest number of players in the genre, at a staggering 10.5 million." https://www.gtplanet.net/the-most-played-ps4-driving-title-is-driveclub/
 
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yurinka

Member
are we sure driveclub wasn't profitable ? I've found it sold over 2m and I don't think it budget was as big as open world game. edit: also according to 2019 article "According to player trophy information, 2014’s Driveclub has the largest number of players in the genre, at a staggering 10.5 million." https://www.gtplanet.net/the-most-played-ps4-driving-title-is-driveclub/
Most of that number of players was because they included it for free on PS Plus in 2015, as can be seen here:
https://gamstat.com/games/Driveclub/

It's fair to think Driveclub had 10.5 million players (most of them 'free') and around 2M sales. Before putting it on PS Plus around a year after release, the game sales where slightly above 1M. Sony shouldn't be happy with that performance, plus the server shitshow they had at launch, many features not ready at launch, their previous game also tanking on sales (due to being unfortunate of featuring natural disasters and being released more or less at the same time than a big natural disaster so had to reduce its marketing and not releasing it in some places), etc.

I loved the Motorstorm games and Driveclub, but I understand Sony's reasons to shut them down.
 
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yurinka

Member
still over 2milions in less than one year for racing game is very good result imho
If you ignore the sales of Need for Speed, Gran Turismo, Forza, Mario Kart or The Crew to name a few, yes.

But looking at the PSN usage website I provided, they may had 2M shipped just before they did put it on PS Plus (it's when they revealed that data), but slightly above 1M PSN users played it (with 10% margin error, and it's users not sales, so includes 2nd hand, 2nd account in the same console, borrowed to a friend, rented copies, etc).
 

Dolomite

Member
nah. games dont cost that much to make. their main cost is the amount of money it costs to run a studio. nd is roughly 300 people. thats 300 people working on a game for 3 years. that doesnt cost $200 million.

you can look up how much u2 and u3 cost. 150 people working 2 years cost $20 million. 300 people working 2 years would cost $40. an extra year would cost an extra $10 million which would bring it up to $50 million. add in a big marketing budget and you are looking at $75-100 million max.

Rockstar had all of their 7 studios and 3,000 employees make rdr2. thats a game that cost $200 million.
Rockstar Games do
 
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