Support NeoGAF

[64bitmodels]

Topher I get your frustration with the whole GaaS thing but for me it's literally nothing but good in my eyes. You can easily ignore it, if one of them does succeed, and the money produced from that venture will keep Sony afloat to the point where we won't need many price increases from here on out

Like, Steam, Counter Strike & Dota 2 are probably the main reasons Valve is such a friendly giant these days who refuse shit like NFTs, Paid online and the like because they already have enough money flowing in from 3 products already.

 

[Loomy]

It definitely wasnt bad for sony, but it wasnt that great for playstation users though

Was it bad though? What about the last 4 years have been bad?

 

[CrimsonSquall]

As a huge fan of KZ, MAG, Socom, and Resistance mp, I too wanted Sony to go back to their PS3 era multiplayer games. But this aint it. its a complete shift.

And the proof is int he pudding. their sp studios are making fewer games. just look at that shitshow of an E3 conference they had this year after skipping the LAST TWO E3s!!! No ND, No SSM, No GG, No kojipro, no bluepoint,no bend, no suckerpunch. just one gaas trash after another.

this is happening because their single player studios need more money than ever before, but sony not only split them into multiple teams forcing them to make gaas trash, they also spent that money on acquiring and investing in unproven studios like that studio with ex-treyarch devs which laid off half of the team, that jade raymond studio thats making a woke pvp shooter,and that ex- bungie studio that showed up with a shitty cg trailer 3 years after announcing the game.

You’re absolutely hating. That trailer was dope. Marathon had 20M views in 4months. For comparison, the original Halo infine trailer has 8m views in 5 years.

 

[L*][*N*K]

Maybe

What if those said Ryan projects have forced him to retire?

We don't know whats going on behind the scenes

We don't have exact figures, but here's how I see it: there are 10 AAA-GaaS projects. Their single-player games have a budget of $200 million, so I imagine their GaaS games would have double that budget. Each has been in development for over 3 years and is expected to launch by 2027. We can assume that they've spent at least $500-700 million by now. Even if Jim is backed into a corner over this, cancelling those projects would be disastrous for Sony. Imagine if those games were cancelled now and they had to start brand new single-player projects from scratch. None would see the light of day before 2028. So, do you think Spider-Man 2 is enough to sustain the PS5 for 5+ years? These GaaS projects are here to stay.

 

[midnightAI]

You’re absolutely hating. That trailer was dope. Marathon had 20M views in 4months. For comparison, the original Halo infine trailer has 8m views in 5 years.

Bungies trailers are always awesome though even the CG/live action ones

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Bungies trailers are always awesome though even the CG ones

CG trailer do nothing for me not matter how cool they may be

I want to see gameplay of games and not watch anime of something I will never remotely play

Just my thoughts though

 

[midnightAI]

CG trailer do nothing for me not matter how cool they may be

I want to see gameplay of games and not watch anime of something I will never remotely play

Just my thoughts though

For Destiny I don't mind, you know what you are getting with Destiny, I'd like to see gameplay of Marathon though, is it more like Destiny with a different aesthetic? (GaaS can be played solo or fireteam? If so then I'm all for it, Destiny is awesome just walking out into the world and shoot stuff with the awesome gunplay or spending time doing actual activities)

 

[DrFigs]

For Destiny I don't mind, you know what you are getting with Destiny, I'd like to see gameplay of Marathon though, is it more like Destiny with a different aesthetic? (GaaS can be played solo or fireteam? If so then I'm all for it, Destiny is awesome just walking out into the world and shoot stuff with the awesome gunplay or spending time doing actual activities)

yeah idk why that trailer for marathon has such a popular reception. must be the music probably

 

[T-0800]

Playstation fans have never heard of Jim Ryan. The average Xbox fan also has no idea who Phil Spencer is either.

 

[SidViscous]

Just wait until he finds out how happy we all are when Bloomberg gets rid of his ass.

 

[midnightAI]

yeah idk why that trailer for marathon has such a popular reception. must be the music probably

Dunno, I like it because it reminds me of modern demoscene productions, such as...

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

The GAAS explosion over the last 10 years isn't luck and it isn't slowing down.

I for one think that GaaS market is going to crash sooner rather than later. There are some signs of it. But Playstation relied on third party for that for far too long.

 

[Jigsaah]

I cheered because I don't like the way he did business. Successful, yes, butI don't care about the success of a brand. I care how it affects me as a consumer. Raising prices, GaaS were things I don't like. However I do appreciate his push towards PC, though I think there should have been day one releases.

Before he took over Sony though, he was in marketing over in Europe IIRC. I got a sense of what kind of cutthroat he was around the time of the midgen refresh last generation. In an interview, he expected parity from developers between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X even though Xbox One X was clearly more powerful and could do more. Essentially, he expected developers to be beholden to Sony's leading platform and to kneecap their upgrade projects so it wouldn't make Sony look bad. My problem with this is that where was this argument when PS4 was wiping the floor with the original Xbox One?

Ever since then I've disliked Jim Ryan. Cherry on the top is his complete lack of showmanship and what I assume is his absolute neglect of the Sony fanbase in regards to showcases and the consolation prize that is "State of Play".

To me, it's just fucked up because if Xbox would have expected all games to run at 900p, people would have had a shit fit over just the mention of this. It shows me that Jim Ryan never cared about the advancement of the art or technology, it was always about Sony's bottom line. That's what's he's supposed to do as a CEO, I get it, but from a customer's perspective, I want developers to put their best efforts forward regardless of what platform it happens to manifest on.

It's ultimately why I went to PC. It's called PCMR for a good fucking reason. I don't have to worry about this BS anymore. Mid-gen refresh this and that...gimme my PC I can run for years, games I can play from anywhere and online that I don't have to shell out another $120 a year for.

 

[El Pistolero]

So how long do you think they should sit on ass waiting to do something?

According to the geniuses here and elsewhere, they need to wait another 10 years before starting to invest in GaaS titles...

 

[Stooky]

No, Sony was going down the Gaas road long before Call of Duty came into the picture.

no they weren’t. that was never the focus for playstaion untill recently

 

[Sanepar]

The best thing on this article is to discover Factions is canceled

 

[Topher]

Topher I get your frustration with the whole GaaS thing but for me it's literally nothing but good in my eyes. You can easily ignore it, if one of them does succeed, and the money produced from that venture will keep Sony afloat to the point where we won't need many price increases from here on out

Like, Steam, Counter Strike & Dota 2 are probably the main reasons Valve is such a friendly giant these days who refuse shit like NFTs, Paid online and the like because they already have enough money flowing in from 3 products already.

If I continue to get the games I have come to expect from PlayStation then yeah, I'll be ok with that. Hopefully the next guy will actually to bother to let guys like me know what games are coming. Jim Ryan sure as hell didn't care to the last two years. I'm not a fan of PlayStation for its own sake. I'm a fan of PlayStation games. Without the games, I'm not a fan of PlayStation. It is what it is.

no they weren’t. that was never the focus for playstaion untill recently

The plans forward for a Gaas focus began before the ABK acquisition was even announced.

 

[Aguero9320]

Not the biggest Sony fan, but would like to wish Jim all the best on his retirement. Lots to be proud of from his time running the show.

 

[ByWatterson]

Forum-sourced, forum-baiting hit piece for no reason.

 

[Badlucktroll]

they be like

 

[Katajx]

It depends on who/what takes over and where they decide to invest. Hopefully they make more of an effort in first and second party to expand their offerings a bit.

For the last few years I feel like the first party offerings have had a very narrow focus. I want some games from more than the West Coast US and parts of Europe.

I feel like third parties do this better, and Sony could do better if they had teams from different places of the world making games.

 

[Zok310]

If Sony listen to fanatics on video game forums they would straight up go out of business
If SIE dont pivot SOME of their offerings to Live Services then SIE is fucked by the end of the decade.
One of the industry’s biggest live service provider, activision, have just be taken off the field by sie’s biggest competitor.
There is absolutely no way the exec at Sony and sie are sitting around hoping and praying that MS don't gobble up the next biggest Live Service provider and if they do hope and pray that MS allows those games to stay on PS. This is what they not going to do.
Instead they will do the shit themself in-house and off limits to MS and any other company they consider competitors.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I for one think that GaaS market is going to crash sooner rather than later. There are some signs of it. But Playstation relied on third party for that for far too long.

There are no signs of an impending GAAS crash. It's just wishful thinking. The Live Service market is certain to continue its rapid growth over the next 10 years at minimum.

 

[cartman414]

Topher I get your frustration with the whole GaaS thing but for me it's literally nothing but good in my eyes. You can easily ignore it, if one of them does succeed, and the money produced from that venture will keep Sony afloat to the point where we won't need many price increases from here on out

Like, Steam, Counter Strike & Dota 2 are probably the main reasons Valve is such a friendly giant these days who refuse shit like NFTs, Paid online and the like because they already have enough money flowing in from 3 products already.

All good things, but Valve has made almost nothing new since. Which may or may not be worth it given the quality of any hypothetical games that would have been made.

 

[Topher]

All good things, but Valve has made almost nothing new since. Which may or may not be worth it given the quality of any hypothetical games that would have been made.

That's in line with what Edgelord79 was saying. If Gaas money is such a massive cash cow then will Sony eventually no longer bother with single player? I see these as legit questions.

 

[Stooky]

The plans forward for a Gaas focus began before the ABK acquisition was even announced.

over the last 2, 3 is recent. especially when dev cycles are 4+ years

 

[Topher]

over the last 2, 3 is recent. especially when dev cycles are 4+ years

Fair enough

 

[Kilau]

Like, Steam, Counter Strike & Dota 2 are probably the main reasons Valve is such a friendly giant these days who refuse shit like NFTs, Paid online and the like because they already have enough money flowing in from 3 products already.

Valve can do what they like because they aren’t beholden to shareholders demanding profits increase every quarter. Make no mistake, if Sony hits it big with a gaas title, that money will be used to chase more profits for that game or games like it.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Early last year, Ryan helmed Sony’s acquisition of Destiny-maker Bungie, one of the top service game developers in the world, in hopes of accelerating this pivot. But it took Bungie decades to develop the teams, technology and production pipelines that have made Destiny successful — and even so, they had some serious growing pains along the way. Even Bungie’s expertise has not yet been able to turn PlayStation Studios into a service-game factory.

Wtf? Am I Missing something? Didn't Sony just buy Bungie last year?

 

[rkofan87]

Too bad JR was banned. It would have been nice to see him float, but I'm not going to go to his forum to see it.

oh fake jr got the hammer shame

 

[DrFigs]

Wtf? Am I Missing something? Didn't Sony just buy Bungie last year?

yes it's a weird statement from Jason. Since acquiring bungie, a few of sony's planned gaas games have either been cancelled or delayed. which is like a weird thing to happen after you buy a gaas publisher. maybe this is what he had in mind with that sentence.

 

[rkofan87]

my hate for jr goes back to when he was like bc bad.

 

[DrFigs]

If Sony listen to fanatics on video game forums they would straight up go out of business
If SIE dont pivot SOME of their offerings to Live Services then SIE is fucked by the end of the decade.
One of the industry’s biggest live service provider, activision, have just be taken off the field by sie’s biggest competitor.
There is absolutely no way the exec at Sony and sie are sitting around hoping and praying that MS don't gobble up the next biggest Live Service provider and if they do hope and pray that MS allows those games to stay on PS. This is what they not going to do.
Instead they will do the shit themself in-house and off limits to MS and any other company they consider competitors.

i get wanting to be skeptical, but idk how people don't see this. what happens when that 3 year deal or whatever it is w/ call of duty is over w/ Microsoft? sony is screwed. i don't like jimbo, but that's good leadership imo to be able to see that gaas/multiplayer whatever is a huge problem before MS even acquired activision. imagine if they didnt have this plan in place. it would be a disaster. sony would be scrambling to catch up even worse than they are rn.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Dear idiots,

They are going to be losing a massive load of revenue from call of duty one of these days. And who knows what else. The gass is them not waiting around to do something about it. That will not change.

they need to do both. To not do so would be foolish. Ryan’s departure is terrible tho. Either they have a bunch of duds coming up, or they are expecting a huge hit from COD’s ownership under MS.

 

[ulantan]

Wtf? Am I Missing something? Didn't Sony just buy Bungie last year?

Yes but for some reason people are acting like live sony has pumped out multiple failed live service games since then.

 

[SlimySnake]

Wtf? Am I Missing something? Didn't Sony just buy Bungie last year?

Yes, February 1st. So exactly 19 months. Jimbo or Herman had said that they would ship 12 gaas games by 2025. In the 19 months since Bungie's acquisition, they have shipped a total of zero gaas games. and all but cancelled one after bungie's input.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Jim Ryan is a killer. I hope he lands on Nintendo's Advisory BoD, they could use his insight into European markets and successful TV adaptations.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

This part is ridiculous...

"But it took Bungie decades to develop the teams, technology and production pipelines that have made Destiny successful — and even so, they had some serious growing pains along the way. Even Bungie’s expertise has not yet been able to turn PlayStation Studios into a service-game factory."

Implying that you need decades worth of Live Service experience to create a hit asks the reader to ignore reality. This is a Paul Tassi level article.

 

[Humdinger]

I wasn't aware of how much Jim Ryan was pushing Sony studios in the direction of GaaS. I guess I've been out of touch. I'm disappointed to hear that. Not a fan of GaaS at all. Railed against it when it first became a thing, mostly under MS, years ago. Otoh, I understand the money to be made, and from a business standpoint, you'd be foolish to overlook it. I would not expect the new guy/gal to change direction. It's simply too lucrative an opportunity to pass up. It's a shame, though. It will mean more crap games and fewer good ones.

 

[TGO]

I can't really congratulate him on his time there because I simply don't see what he has done outside of buying some studios and porting the some games to PC.
Every game from launch to present was greenlighted by House & John Kodera.
Under Jim Ryan Playstation has been unproductive when it comes to Playstation Studios outside of titles announced years ago.
And the communication with the userbase has been none existent to embarrassingly lacking and questionable.
Now that those games have come, gone and ported or are closer to release he has retired.
So tell me what product or IP did he greenlight that was successful and he is proud of?
And for the owners of the console, what exactly has he done to improve your Playstation experience.

 

[Hawke502]

Are the majority of Xbox studio games single player games or gaas?

Right now? The majority of Xbox Studios are working on single player titles, we know that from announcements and the recent leak. Even Obsidian, who shipped a gaas title and is still supporting it (grounded) has already shipped Pentiment, is aiming to ship Avowed next year and is working on The Outer Worlds 2

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If I continue to get the games I have come to expect from PlayStation then yeah, I'll be ok with that. Hopefully the next guy will actually to bother to let guys like me know what games are coming. Jim Ryan sure as hell didn't care to the last two years. I'm not a fan of PlayStation for its own sake. I'm a fan of PlayStation games. Without the games, I'm not a fan of PlayStation. It is what it is.



The plans forward for a Gaas focus began before the ABK acquisition was even announced.

When it comes to the trend of GAAS, IMO as long as the games someone likes keep coming out and they arent forced to buy mtx to be competitive, who really cares.

I dont play COD as much as I used to as I got burnout, but I havent paid a dime into it since I bought some map packs during the 360 era. MW3 map pack in 2011. So 12 years I paid zero extra money.

The next pointer is if anyone cares a lot if any extra games being made by a dev skew to GAAS or if they keep the ratio of games they make similar to before so any non-GAAS games being made keep up. Maybe some devs do, some dont. To me, unless someone is a giant gamer playing all day does it really matter if games skew GAAS as long as they keep getting their usual games?

Now I can understand if a studio drops fan favourites and all they really make going forward are unknown GAAS games they dont like, but thats something people will have to just accept because in modern day thats the skew. It's like companies making shit more organic, green, less packaging, more calorie conscience. Its the trend and someone will have to accept if it doesn't go their way.

 

[lh032]

seems theres a new Playstation narrative every month.
"some" can be translated to "most" it seens.

 

[Topher]

When it comes to the trend of GAAS, IMO as long as the games someone likes keep coming out and they arent forced to buy mtx to be competitive, who really cares.

I dont play COD as much as I used to as I got burnout, but I havent paid a dime into it since I bought some map packs during the 360 era. MW3 map pack in 2011. So 12 years I paid zero extra money.

The next pointer is if anyone cares a lot if any extra games being made by a dev skew to GAAS or if they keep the ratio of games they make similar to before so any non-GAAS games being made keep up. Maybe some devs do, some dont. To me, unless someone is a giant gamer playing all day does it really matter if games skew GAAS as long as they keep getting their usual games?

Now I can understand if a studio drops fan favourites and all they really make going forward are unknown GAAS games they dont like, but thats something people will have to just accept because in modern day thats the skew. It's like companies making shit more organic, green, less packaging, more calorie conscience. Its the trend and someone will have to accept if it doesn't go their way.

I've said several times in this thread that if Sony continues to make their traditional games then I'm ok with the rest. But they still need to show us these game and they just haven't. Maybe the next guy will. Right now, my hype level for upcoming PlayStation games is the lowest it has ever been.

 

[Crayon]

they need to do both. To not do so would be foolish. Ryan’s departure is terrible tho. Either they have a bunch of duds coming up, or they are expecting a huge hit from COD’s ownership under MS.

Do you mean both like their current games and gaas? As far as I understand, they added a huge new chunk of budget for gaas and didn't take it out of the existing one.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I've said several times in this thread that if Sony continues to make their traditional games then I'm ok with the rest. But they still need to show us these game and they just haven't. Maybe the next guy will. Right now, my hype level for upcoming PlayStation games is the lowest it has ever been.

Thats probably because the SP games coming out are basically sequels to Horizon, GOW, LOU, Spiderman. The biggest deviation is a Wolverine game.

The past 10 years, Sony found their Forza, Halo, Gears games to do sequelitis. The reason why Sony back in the PS2/PS3 era had so many different games across genres is because they couldnt find their cornerstone games to make aside from GOW and GT. Now they found more and can keep doing them.

 

[Topher]

Thats probably because the SP games coming out are basically sequels to Horizon, GOW, LOU, Spiderman. The biggest deviation is a Wolverine game.

The past 10 years, Sony found their Forza, Halo, Gears games to do sequelitis. The reason why Sony back in the PS2/PS3 era had so many different games across genres is because they couldnt find their cornerstone games to make aside from GOW and GT. Now they found more and can keep doing them.

I'm fine with all those franchises. They are great actually. Where are we with the next round? No idea. That's the problem.

Feel like I'm just repeating myself endlessly in this thread so I'm dropping out.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I've said several times in this thread that if Sony continues to make their traditional games then I'm ok with the rest. But they still need to show us these game and they just haven't. Maybe the next guy will. Right now, my hype level for upcoming PlayStation games is the lowest it has ever been.

Nothing that I know of excites outside of Wolverine.

I too hope their communication improves

There has to be a middle ground that would work between Phils 10 interviews a week and the silence that comes from Sony.

 

[jorgejjvr]

PlayStation has been killing it under Jim

Let's hope the next person can keep up

 

[jorgejjvr]

Nothing that I know of excites outside of Wolverine.

I too hope their communication improves

There has to be a middle ground that would work between Phils 10 interviews a week and the silence that comes from Sony.

The middle ground has a name

Nintendo