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James Mangold Revealed the Ending of ‘Logan’ in ‘The Wolverine’

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L

LordOfLore

Banned
Collider link.

As I said in this week’s podcast, The Wolverine feels like a rough draft for Logan. It’s a film that does a lot of what director James Mangold wanted to do with the character—take away his healing factor, focus more on character and his relationships, break away from the superhero genre—but that it was compromised to hit certain blockbuster beats. So while you have nice moments of Logan finding new friendships with Mariko and Yukio, you also have him fighting a giant robot and a woman who can shed her skin.

That being said, Mangold was able to squeeze in his vision for Wolverine’s ending into The Wolverine, and Twitter user “MauriceTheChosenOne” was able to spot it. You may recall that Yukio is a mutant who has the ability to see into the future. At one point, she tells Wolverine that “I see you on your back, there’s blood everywhere. You’re holding your own heart in your hand.” There’s payoff on this within The Wolverine itself. There’s a parasite that has latched onto Logan’s heart and it’s preventing his healing factor from working. He has to carve it out, and he briefly dies, thus fulfilling Yukio’s prophecy.

But it turns out Mangold was looking at longer game. [Spoilers ahead for Logan].

It turns out that Yukio was also talking about the death Logan didn’t come back from. He’s on his back, covered in blood, and the “own heart” that he’s holding in his hand is his daughter. It changes Yukio’s prophecy from literal to figurative, but it’s much more profound.

This also isn’t just fan theorizing. Mangold confirmed Maurice’s suspicion on Twitter.

I guess we shouldn’t be too surprised at Mangold bringing back an element from a previous Wolverine movie and using it wisely. Hell, he even found a use for
the dumb adamantium bullet from X-Men Origins.
Click to expand...

Send me to Japan or Canada if old.
 
S

SFenton

Member
I feel like this isn't something thematically that Mangold had planned out years ago (just a gut feeling), but that's a really nice tie that certainly isn't a coincidence.

Alienous said:
He did not.

The scene in The Wolverine foreshadows a scene in that same movie where Wolverine needs to remove a parasites attached to his heart.
Click to expand...

Pretty much how I feel. Thematically it's the same thing, but I really doubt this is what Mangold was planning when shooting The Wolverine- the character was clearly referencing the parasites, not Logan's death.
 
A

Alienous

Member
He did not.

The mentioned scene in The Wolverine foreshadows a scene in that same movie where Wolverine needs to remove a parasite attached to his heart.
 
R

Raylan Targaryen

Member
This is what BioWare should have done when fans came up with the indoctrination theory.

Just "fuck it, you make a good point. that was totally the intention (even though it wasn't) thanks for making me look better"
 
V

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
Alienous said:
He did not.

The mentioned scene in The Wolverine foreshadows a scene in that same movie where Wolverine needs to remove a parasite attached to his heart.
Click to expand...

Sometimes, creative elements come out of improvisation and no planning.
It's equally good.
 
J

Jocund

Member
Alienous said:
He did not.

The mentioned scene in The Wolverine foreshadows a scene in that same movie where Wolverine needs to remove a parasite attached to his heart.
Click to expand...
You should read the article

While I take issue with the "revealing" bit, Mangold certainly made use of elements from The Wolverine in a smart way.
 
Z

Zen_Arcade

Banned
Alienous said:
He did not.

The mentioned scene in The Wolverine foreshadows a scene in that same movie where Wolverine needs to remove a parasite attached to his heart.
Click to expand...
Read the OP. Even if it was planned after the Wolverine was finished, he still actually died in the way Yukio prophesied.
 
M

MoonsaultSlayer

Member
Spoiler spoiler spoiler spoilers

Spoilers more spoilers and spoilers

(Btw spoilers below)
Spoilers restating the above spoilers lool

Spoilers spoily spoilers.

I'm not mad, I've seen the film. Just found it funny.
 
J

Jocund

Member
Alienous said:
I don't think so.
Click to expand...

I'm curious. Are you a writer? In my experience, connections like this certainly do reveal themselves in the writing process. They're no worse than the ones that come from rigorous planning. They're better sometimes, even.

EDIT: What elements? The premonition, dude. Come on.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Like I said in the OT: Whether he did or didn't plan for Logan's ending to match up to that prophecy by Yukio, the fact it can be seen to is a valid read. It's a connection that can be made by the audience, and that connection isn't wrong, emotionally. Now, if someone wanted to argue that was 100% the intention Mangold had when he wrote Logan's ending, it would have been harder to prove as opposed to a basic interpretation of the text, because then you have to prove authorial intent.

But now you've got the author himself saying "Yup."

So outside of the ensuing argument that suggests "Mangold is fucking with you, he didn't mean that," there's really no reason to deny that interpretation as a valid one.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
Wait, I missed this:

Do you really think that creative elements can't come out of improvisation?

That creativity can't exist unless it's been pre-planned?

It's been thoroughly explained in the OT, but what's not to get?
Click to expand...

"Luke, I am your father."

"Sister...twin sister!"

Totes pre-planned.
 
S

SFenton

Member
ryutaro's mama said:
"Luke, I am your father."

"Sister...twin sister!"

Totes pre-planned.
Click to expand...

I mean, those weren't re-tied to elements that happened in IV or V IIRC.

FWIW, I will probably also rewatch the film with this tie in mind, because it's pretty neat, but I also don't really believe this was pre-planned foreshadowing or anything.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Bobby Roberts said:
Wait, I missed this:

Do you really think that creative elements can't come out of improvisation?

That creativity can't exist unless it's been pre-planned?



It's been thoroughly explained in the OT, but what's not to get?
Click to expand...

Reminds me of how in Breaking Bad when
Walter is shown with the beard and that machine gun, the writers had no idea how Walter would end up there or why he would need a gun,
all of that was thought up after the fact.

Chances are Mangold didn't think of Logan's end when The Wolverine was being made but it seems, by his own admission, that it's something he used for Logan.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Einchy said:
Chances are Mangold didn't think of Logan's end when The Wolverine was being made but it seems, by his own admission, that it's something he used for Logan.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't see why it's so implausible that the dude who worked on the LAST Wolverine movie might, when working on the NEW Wolverine movie, go back over what he did the last time, and see something that he could expand upon that would make for a cool little connection should someone stumble across it, and then implement that beat.

Why is that out of bounds? I don't get it.

And even if it was accidental and he's just lying about it (which, okay, not much worth in arguing that) it's still a cool little connection anyway. Nothing in the text disqualifies it from fitting. So viewers can just... let it fit, if they want.
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
SFenton said:
I mean, those weren't re-tied to elements that happened in IV or V IIRC.
Click to expand...

They were both post process retconning...ok how about this, the retconning of (Fast and Furious spoiler
how Han died in Tokyo Drift?

Does that better fit for you on how an element can get tied into a new story connection?
 
S

SFenton

Member
ryutaro's mama said:
They were both post process retconning...ok how about this, the retconning of (Fast and Furious spoiler
how Han died in Tokyo Drift?

Does that better fit for you on how an element can get tied into a new story connection?
Click to expand...

Haven't seen Tokyo Drift so I can't comment, but I guess what I'm getting at is that Lucas never came out and said "yeah this little detail in IV foreshadows it" or something like that.

By post-process, do you mean just an idea that came up in the next film and it retroactively makes the last one a little bit neater, even if it wasn't intended at the time? If that's the case then we're on the same page.
 
A

Alienous

Member
"I see... I see a man... and he's in pain - he's dying. He's... he's lying on his back, there's blood everywhere... and he's holding his heart in his hand"

"Uh, he wasn't holding his heart... he was holding my hand. "

"I meant his metaphorical heart - you!"

"Wow!"


It would hardly pass as a cold reading.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Alienous said:
"I see... I see a man... and he's in pain - he's dying. He's... he's lying on his back, there's blood everywhere... and he's holding his heart in his hand"

"Uh, he wasn't holding his heart... he was holding my hand. "

"I meant his metaphorical heart - you!"

"Wow!"


It would hardly pass as a cold reading.
Click to expand...

So the director is a liar?
 
P

platakul

Banned
Alienous said:
"I see... I see a man... and he's in pain - he's dying. He's... he's lying on his back, there's blood everywhere... and he's holding his heart in his hand"

"Uh, he wasn't holding his heart... he was holding my hand. "

"I meant his metaphorical heart - you!"

"Wow!"


It would hardly pass as a cold reading.
Click to expand...
But laura taught him how to love again. Imo its p significant that Jean is never mentioned in the movie
 
B

Brakke

Banned
zeemumu said:
Fast and Furious Han or Han Solo?
Click to expand...

What's the difference?

yq86jWC.jpg
 
N

NealMcCauley

Member
MisterHero said:
I'm just kidding. Though The Wolverine leads into the bad future and Logan takes place in the good* future

Maybe some version of TW happened in Logan's timeline. Again, just kidding.
Click to expand...

Either way its kinda haunting both timelines end with mutants on the brink of extinction. That and Yukio's prediction are borderline predestination.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Alienous said:
"I see... I see a man... and he's in pain - he's dying. He's... he's lying on his back, there's blood everywhere... and he's holding his heart in his hand"

"Uh, he wasn't holding his heart... he was holding my hand. "

"I meant his metaphorical heart - you!"
Click to expand...

What is it about the scenario of Mangold taking that scene and turning it into a metaphor, for the ending of his new movie, is so implausible to you?

What about this hypothetical (which apparently isn't even a hypothetical) has you so skeptical?

Do you believe creatives do not revisit prior works, or take inspiration from those works, or revisit ideas expressed in those works and repurpose them in new ways for whatever they're currently working on? That this is a rare, strange thing? An outlier on the spectrum of "normal" creativity?
 
A

Alienous

Member
Einchy said:
So the director is a liar?
Click to expand...

He hasn't really said anything substantive on this suggestion, as far as I'm aware.

I'm just saying that I'm not convinced that the prophecy in The Wolverine was intended for anything other than the scene it foreshadows in that same movie, considering that it requires a poetic and metaphorical interpretation to link to Logan.
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
Maybe it wasn't but he did a great job retroactively making the prophecy tie to Logans ending. Technically she got his actual end right.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Alienous said:
He hasn't really said anything any it.

I'm just saying that I'm not convinced that the prophecy in The Wolverine was intended for anything other than the scene it foreshadows in that same movie.
Click to expand...

He did, though.

https://twitter.com/mang0ld/status/839888687227789312?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

And you don't have to be convinced of that, because that's not really what people are talking about. It's about that scene being retroactively used as a cool tie-in between both movies. That scene in Wolverine now works on two levels, one where it talks about The Wolverine and the other where it references his real death in Logan.

It was even explained to you in this post.

Veidt said:
Sometimes, creative elements come out of improvisation and no planning.
It's equally good.
Click to expand...

But you didn't think it was possible for people to improvise in creative work.
 
A

Alienous

Member
Discotheque said:
Maybe it wasn't but he did a great job retroactively making the prophecy tie to Logans ending. Technically she got his actual end right.
Click to expand...

But she didn't, because it goes from a literal description of a death to a metaphorical one. He's literally dying on his back, literally covered in blood, metaphorically holding his own heart in his hand.
 
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