Support NeoGAF

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Can’t really blame them considering Sony was just straight up lying to entice people to jump onboard prior to launch.

Exactly and remember how they literally advertised GT7 as being next gen (in several official trailers too) only to go "oops just kidding" THREE months away from release.

 

[nial]

Gen design have also released nothing in the 6 years since TLG was released, not even a screenshot. The guy moves at glacial speed.

Close to 8 years, even.

 

[Crayon]

Whatever it is, it's not good. Maybe their pipe got off the rails a bit. Or they've painted themselves into a corner with the expectations on those big games. They are taking stupid long.

I sure miss sequels being closer together. There's always stuff to play but it's weird when you get through a game you really like and start thinking about a sequel that could be five years away.

 

[T0minator]

Can’t really blame them considering Sony was just straight up lying to entice people to jump onboard prior to launch.

Probably the most misinterpreted quote of this entire generation


What does "we believe in generations" even mean?

The actual quote was "we believe in generational transitions" he was also referencing the DualSense controller and UI being different experience from generation to the next.

It's crazy how that quote gets misinterpreted so often

 

[Heisenberg007]

I think there are a few filters missing. You should add a few more to inflate the timeline even more.

 

[RCU005]

Probably the most misinterpreted quote of this entire generation


What does "we believe in generations" even mean?

The actual quote was "we believe in generational transitions" he was also referencing the DualSense controller and UI being different experience from generation to the next.

It's crazy how that quote gets misinterpreted so often

That's not true at all. He was specifically asked about Xbox games getting cross-gen games and what the strategy would be for PlayStation. That's why everyone got pissed off when they announced previously confirmed PS5 only games would also come to PS4.

 

[Robb]

It's crazy how that quote gets misinterpreted so often. The actual quote was "we believe in generational transitions".

It was definitely not “we believe in generational transitions”..

"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features. […] It is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

Make of it what you will. It’s just PR either way, the biggest offense was advertising the game as a Ps5 exclusive.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That's not true at all. He was specifically asked about Xbox games getting cross-gen games and what the strategy would be for PlayStation. That's why everyone got pissed off when they announced previously confirmed PS5 only games would also come to PS4.

No, you know this is not the case, but do not let this get in the way of making stuff up for enraging engagement .

PS5 Die Shot has been revealed

I blame this bearded stoner Exactly. He literally says there that "RDNA2 includes hardware support for DIRECT X ray tracing" So... PS5 by definition can't be this so called "full RDNA2" because PlayStation would never ever use fucking DirectX. Wow the PS5 is not a PC. Shocker. Its dishonest...

www.neogaf.com

SONY CES 2021 Conference | Release dates for Project Athia (January 2022), Ghostwire Tokyo & more

I pushed it back a hair only because March is MLB The Show month towards the end, and February is a hair too early for their heavy hitter with income taxes. But with that said, they seem to have no issue with any month they launch their games, really. The Last of Us Part 2 was originally dated...

www.neogaf.com

The leading point / “concern” was:

One way to keep PS4 users engaged would be to make upcoming PS5 games playable on the older machine, just like Microsoft is proposing with its Xbox Series X games being playable on Xbox One. Yet Ryan says that's not something PlayStation is interested in doing.

No lie in there, it was not their plan to be making ALL games forward compatible (No Exclusive Xbox Series X|S games sold as a feature…) as a mandate which is what Xbox and its astroturfers were officially pushing at the time because apparently that is how games are designed (targeting the low end and magically improved to really take great advantage of high end machine specs with the flick of a few switches… tons of people including many devs said that it is just not how anything works in games, people shouted back, were wrong, and just conveniently stopped talking about it / left the scene).

Ryan clarified the above saying why they would not be making all games cross generation / why they would be having exclusives too and why they do talk about console generations (in contrast to Xbox that desperately wanted to kill the idea and get their customers on mobile like iterative HW releases):

"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

Again, no lie in there, but a good example of manufactured outrage trying to console war in online forums.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It was definitely not “we believe in generational transitions”..

Make of it what you will.

It‘s been 2 years, 8 months & 15 days since a Sony-owned studio announced a brand new, non-VR single player game.

Can’t really blame them considering Sony was just straight up lying to entice people to jump onboard prior to launch. Exactly and remember how they literally advertised GT7 as being next gen (in several official trailers too) only to go "oops just kidding" THREE months away from release.

www.neogaf.com

No need to make anything, the full quote and contexts are clear, if people want to cherry pick to make it say something else they can enjoy it as much as they want, but it does not change what was actually said.

There were PS5 exclusive games that took advantage of exclusive features that the HW provided.

If you bother to make a new generation HW it should have exclusive features that the old platform cannot take advantage of and exclusive titles are part of it.

 

[Robb]

No need to make anything, the full quote and contexts are clear

It’s PR, it’ll always be intentionally vague and open for interpretation.

You for example say that there was no lie in this quote:

One way to keep PS4 users engaged would be to make upcoming PS5 games playable on the older machine, just like Microsoft is proposing with its Xbox Series X games being playable on Xbox One. Yet Ryan says that's not something PlayStation is interested in doing.

Yet they were very much interested in doing exactly that as they announced GT7 as a Ps5 exclusive and then changed it.

There’s no context in the interview for what you mention about forward compatibility as a mandate.

 

[FeralEcho]

I genuinely would've moved over to PC was it not for my library. PlayStation isn't exciting anymore as a company, It's become a business run by suits and the fans have become complacent and rarely are critical of them in the same way Microsoft's fans were post 2009 when Sony was burying everyone with their exclusive lineup while Microsoft was busy chasing Kinect and the Xbox fans instead of being critical they were defensive and supportive of MS retarded decision making.

Now that Microsoft has given up it'll only get worse with Sony trying even less.But as always,fanboys will realize only when it's too late.

 

[Three]

"The reason Ghost of Tsushima 2 isn't out yet is because AAA video games now take 5-7 years to make."

In a world where From Software, Kojima Studio or Mihoyo don't exist, that is.

But Death Stranding came out 5 years ago.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It’s PR, it’ll always be intentionally vague and open for interpretation.

You WANT to interpret it. It is clear .

You for example say that there was no lie in this quote:

Yet they were very much interested in doing exactly that as they announced GT7 as a Ps5 exclusive and then changed it.

There is no lie, they did not say ALL games for the first year or so were going to be cross-generation games which is what MS had announced before launch. Sony did not say ALL games would be exclusive for PS5 and that there would be no cross-generation games.

People keep twisting themselves in pretzels to abuse this set of quotes to farm rage, .

There’s no context in the interview for what you mention about forward compatibility as a mandate.

The point was made about Sony was trying to make a point about how they differed from Xbox’s approach (which is repeated in the article too btw ) and now since it corroborates the point people are taking it back… come on .

One way to keep PS4 users engaged would be to make upcoming PS5 games playable on the older machine, just like Microsoft is proposing with its Xbox Series X games being playable on Xbox One. Yet Ryan says that's not something PlayStation is interested in doing.

Before we cherry pick some words and pretend to forget what the discussion back then was:

“All of our games… will play up and down that family of devices” – Xbox’s Matt Booty ends the next-gen exclusive as we know it​

"All of our games... will play up and down that family of devices" – Xbox's Matt Booty ends the next-gen exclusive as we know it - MCV/DEVELOP

We catch up with Matt Booty, head of Xbox Game Studios,

mcvuk.com

Anyways, this is how Ryan responded and clarified his thoughts:

"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

Again, no lie in there, but a good example of manufactured outrage trying to console war in online forums.

 

[Robb]

Sony did not say ALL games would be exclusive for PS5 and that there would be no cross-generation games.

I agree with that. They did say they’re not interested in making Ps5 games playable on Ps4 though. Yet they changed GT7 from being a Ps5 exclusive to being a Ps4 game.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I agree with that. They did say they’re not interested in making Ps5 games playable on Ps4 though. Yet they changed GT7 from being a Ps5 exclusive to being a Ps4 game.

Sorry if COVID happened, it still does not make the statement a lie as it was not denying that they would have exclusive software taking advantage of exclusive hardware features that makes sense if you have exclusive software taking advantage of it.

They are not interested in making ALL their PS5 games playable in PS4 in contrast to what MS said they would do with their launch software and their first year or so stable of games… and guess what? They did have exclusive games and most of all exclusive features you could only find in PS5. The fun part is that the quote is also about HW generations and what makes a new generation of HW and why they do not just enable an iPhone like iterative HW model which is what MS would have loved to go to.

Taking one game and making it cross-generation, if it ever was truly exclusive, does not deny the point Ryan made. If you want to read it as a promise they would make all the future games PS5 exclusives it is on your trying to read what you want in other people’s words and unintentionally or intentionally twisting them.

 

[Fabieter]

Xdev was involved in two games released this year.

 

[Robb]

it still does not make the statement a lie

I mean, that’s fine. That’s your interpretation of it, which is my entire point. And who cares if Covid happened, that doesn’t make it less of lie for people who bought the system based on false advertising.

If you read this at a time where MS has said that their strategy going forward is to have cross-gen titles for the first year of their system:

One way to keep PS4 users engaged would be to make upcoming PS5 games playable on the older machine, just like Microsoft is proposing with its Xbox Series X games being playable on Xbox One. Yet Ryan says that's not something PlayStation is interested in doing.

, see a trailer for GT7 that says “Ps5 exclusive”, and go on to think they weren’t spewing PR b/s in your face, then more power to you.

The outrage happened for a reason, and it’s because people didn’t interpret it the way you are. Which in itself is proof of it not being very clear, not to mention us having this conversation right now.

Anyway, I don’t think we’ll reach a consensus here.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I mean, that’s fine. That’s your interpretation of it, which is my entire point.

No, it is not a “you see it one way and I see it another way, they are all the same”. It is closer to Flat Earth interpretation of facts (“Sony lied lol, we believe in generations was a lie lol lol”) vs Earth is a curved object some approximate as spherical with margins of errors level takes of the same data.

And who cares if Covid happened, that doesn’t make it less of lie for people who bought the system based on false advertising.

Yes it does (even leaving alone what the word “lie” means which would be pertinent here), because they, going back to the same point, never promised ALL their software was going to be PS5 exclusive nor they promised GT was NOT going to support the PS4 and again this quote is about the existence of exclusive software and what defines a new generation of HW. You know this too, so please stop trying to twist reality and just say “I hate that they made games anchored to the PS4 at all”. We can agree with that…

Taking a topic which has been debated to death and is pretty much settled many times over is not the way to do this.

If you read this at a time where MS has said that their strategy going forward is to have cross-gen titles for the first year of their system:

, see a trailer for GT7 that says “Ps5 exclusive”, and go on to think they weren’t spewing PR b/s in your face, then more power to you.

How does any of that have anything to do with that interview and what was said and Sony’s stance on generations?

The outrage happened for a reason, and it’s because people didn’t interpret it the way you are. Which in itself is proof of it not being very clear, not to mention us having this conversation right now.

No, it is proof of some people astroturfing for console warring reasons, some people not being able to read properly, and some people finding conspiracy theories where there are none (like DF’s Battaglia constantly harping on PS5 not having true HW RT like XSX because of the way he chose to interpret what Sony was plainly saying, a bit like you are doing here sorry to say).

Anyway, I don’t think we’ll reach a consensus here.

I guess not . Still, it is worth bringing it up when this quote is stretched and misrepresented instead of making the valid point you could be making and we would agree on.

Sony’s first party studios’ main job should be be proving a new generation viable for third party’s and ease the transition. If they can also make cross-gen games to make more money power to them, but they should have made more PS5 exclusives. We actually agree on the core issue for the most part, but not how you drive the point sorry.

 

[Woopah]

Three years since its release, Sony seems to have abandoned PlayStation 5.

What are you basing this conclusion on?

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Best thread ever. I will join the rant, what is valve doing?!

 

[Kokoloko85]

Yes and it sucks

 

[Terenty]

What do you mean? They've been bleeding, sweating and dying on the battlefields of twitter pulling all the levers, fighting for us gamers and you have the nerve ask??

 

[Wonko_C]

What are you basing this conclusion on?

It's a joke. There was an IGN article about PSVR2 with the same wording.

 

[Woopah]

It's a joke. There was an IGN article about PSVR2 with the same wording.

Oh I see.

I do think that sentiment applies more to PSVR2 than PS5.

 

[MH3M3D]

They COOKIN on that topsecret PS5 PRO

 

[SNPlayen]

That’s what happens when you hire a bunch of fat blue haired lesbians no work gets done.

 

[cash_longfellow]

You put more time and research into your thread title than your actual thread, well done OP

 

[Arsic]

There's an old Slavic anecdote:

A man writes a letter to a match factory: “I have been buying matches from your factory for 10 years now and always counting the number of matches in the box. One day you put 59, then 60 pieces, sometimes 61, and yesterday you put 56. Are you fucking crazy?”

Thread gives me the same vibe.

Holy shit this is incredible.

 

[DavidGzz]

Don't worry, MS is stepping in to help.

 

[Sorcerer]

I think now with game development you hit dry periods. I expect the rest of the 5 era to be slim pickings but the begging/mid era of the 6 to be quite prolific. Then die again after that. Games just take too long to make on a high scale. It almost makes sense to stay a gen behind and catch up/ jump back in when the tides turn to more games coming out. Sony is the defacto king, they can't just shit the bed with crap or they should not anyway.
Microsoft= constant dry periods.
Nintendo, still seem to be doing well eking out the last year of the Switch. Even if its ports/re releases, the fans are eating it up. So why not?

 

[GigaBowser]

they doin fine ONLY reason its noticimible is because third parties are crud now

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

In a world where From Software, Kojima Studio or Mihoyo don't exist, that is.

Death Stranding came out 5 years ago and based on the latest update, DS2 will come out in a year from now so thats 6 full years since DS1. Yeah even Kojima falls under that category.

 

[Topher]

Death Stranding came out 5 years ago and based on the latest update, DS2 will come out in a year from now so thats 6 full years since DS1. Yeah even Kojima falls under that category.

Isn't Kojima working on two games at the same time? DS2 and the Xbox game?

 

[CosmicComet]

This is factually not accurate, since XDEV is owned by Sony and have co-created Stellar Blade, one of the biggest games of the year.

But I agree with the overall message that Sony's first party studio management has been terrible this gen. And it will get worse since they have promoted the main culprit instead of firing his ass.

There's no justification for Bend, Media Molecule, Haven or Naughty Dog (we know factions have delayed their projects).

Xdev didn't co create shit.

Stellar Blade was announced and showed off by shift up before they entered into a partnership with Sony for publishing months later.

That is not a first party game. Shift Up entirely owns the IP. Not Sony.

Same thing with Rise of the Ronin. That's a Tecmo Koei IP despite Sony helping to publish.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Isn't Kojima working on two games at the same time? DS2 and the Xbox game?

Even if he is, its still taking them 6 years to get a sequel out. That second game Im pretty sure its going to be smaller in scope and knowing Kojima that other game could come out who knows when. i mean he said he is working on an xbox game years ago and still nothing.

 

[SlimySnake]

Can’t really blame them considering Sony was just straight up lying to entice people to jump onboard prior to launch.

Lets not forget that HFW and Miles were also revealed as PS5 exclusives. Before being 'revealed' as cross gen the day pre-orders went live. I remember it causing a huge ruckus back then.


then at the ps5 launch, he was asked to confirm if gow ragnorak is last gen like horizon and miles and he literally refused to answer it. he knew full well that both gt7 and ragnorak were greenlit as ps4 games. hes a lying sack of suit just like phil spencer. both guys are used car salesmen with no vision for the future. just a bunch of losers who have ruined this amazing hobby that is literally designed to constantly evovle and get better and here we are 4 years into the gen and its grinded to a mother fucking halt. in a state of arrested development because of fuck nuts putting short term profits over delivering the promise of next gen consoles.

 

[TGO]

Even if he is, its still taking them 6 years to get a sequel out. That second game Im pretty sure its going to be smaller in scope and knowing Kojima that other game could come out who knows when. i mean he said he is working on an xbox game years ago and still nothing.

Not really, Death Stranding development continued after release right up to the PS5 & PC release and I don't believe they jumped into full production even then.
Most Devs have a year to 6 months down time after a big release.
We've seen Death Stranding 2 and know it's coming in 2025
MGS4 was shown in 2005 and released in 2008
Dev time is about the same, at the most a year longer if you believe it started during their Directors Cut Development.

 

[Larivel]

Xdev didn't co create shit.

Stellar Blade was announced and showed off by shift up before they entered into a partnership with Sony for publishing months later.

That is not a first party game. Shift Up entirely owns the IP. Not Sony.

Same thing with Rise of the Ronin. That's a Tecmo Koei IP despite Sony helping to publish.

Stellar Blade credits (PlayStation 5, 2024) - MobyGames

The official game credits for Stellar Blade released on PlayStation 5 in 2024. The credits include 1,127 people.

www.mobygames.com

Literally, about half of the team who worked on the game was from Sony.

 

[Negotiator101]

 

[Lokaum D+]

"The reason Ghost of Tsushima 2 isn't out yet is because AAA video games now take 5-7 years to make."

man, I miss the time when developers weren't full shit. They have made 2 games for PS3 + DLC and 2 for PS4 + DLC, this generation is doomed with this, "we need huge worlds to tell a story" mindset.

 

[T0minator]

I agree with that. They did say they’re not interested in making Ps5 games playable on Ps4 though. Yet they changed GT7 from being a Ps5 exclusive to being a Ps4 game.

They definitely believe in generations. GT7 has advantages on PS5 that aren't possible on PS4, with the haptics on the DualSense, PSVR2 completely changes the feel of the game and elevated it.

"We believe in generations" is so misinterpreted as a bad thing when really it's true they did give us knew experiences with PS5.

Xbox kept the same controller and UI from generation to generation. They don't believe in generations apparently at the beginning

 

[Robb]

They don't believe in generations apparently at the beginning

Not really. By your logic MS definitely believes in generations as well since all Series games support quick resume.

We are truly blessed.

 

[Woopah]

Xdev didn't co create shit.

Stellar Blade was announced and showed off by shift up before they entered into a partnership with Sony for publishing months later.

That is not a first party game. Shift Up entirely owns the IP. Not Sony.

Same thing with Rise of the Ronin. That's a Tecmo Koei IP despite Sony helping to publish.

Sony doesn't own any Marvel IPs but the Spiderman and Wolverine are still first party games.

In the same way, Bayonetta 3 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 are first party Nintendo games and Indiana Jones is a first party Microsoft game.

 

[Evil Calvin]

I think it's fair to say both Sony and MS have dropped the ball this generation...big time.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I am looking forward to Silent Hill 2

 

[Humdinger]

Don't worry, Xbox exclusives will fill the gap.

 

[semiconscious]

the playstation 4 came out in late 2103. 7 years later, the playstation 5 came out in late 2020. so, basically, at 3 1/2 years out, the ps5 is already halfway to the debut date of its replacement, the ps6. seen that way? this extended development cycle thing's altering the whole nature of 'console generation'. highly likely that the next sony santa monica & guerrilla games releases, just like their predecessors, will also be criticized for being cross-gen / 'held back' by the 'previous' gen - as in, this one...

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

I can't speak for other gamers, but I'll be picking up a PS5 Pro by 2025. That's when content I want will be available for it. I really don't think GaaS has much to do with Playstation's first-party output. You'll have to give me some examples of which studios are suffering as a result of this, because my understanding is that Sony pushed outside of it's own studios in funding Firewalk for Concord, Haven Studio for Fairgames, Bungie etc.. more so than internal projects that would result in a delay in projects and altering of project pipelines.

Basucally this. Even ND with cancelled Factions has two teams.

 

[CosmicComet]

Stellar Blade credits (PlayStation 5, 2024) - MobyGames

The official game credits for Stellar Blade released on PlayStation 5 in 2024. The credits include 1,127 people.

www.mobygames.com

Literally, about half of the team who worked on the game was from Sony.

"Worked on" in auxiliary roles and 'co created' are two completely different things.

Stellar Blade has been in a working form for years before Sony got on board with them before release. Shift Up only announced a partnership with Sony as of November, that's how late it was.

People are quick to forget but back when it was still called Project Eve it was announced for PS4 AND Xbox One.

Sony's involvement was extremely late stage and minimal. The game already existed and was near done by the time they attached their name to the project.

Does Sony own Shift Up? No. Does Sony own the Stellar Blade IP?

Also no. It's no more than a 3rd party game with a hardware maker's publishing money.

No different than Sony publishing FF7 back in the day.

 

[Bernardougf]

They heavily invested in gaas projects that didn't see the light of day yet and some were already canceled... they let AAA studios run wild with budgets and time ... people are blaming covid.. I wonder when the excuses will stop... sony fans were happily mocking Xbox.. and now are fitting the same excuse shoes.