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[Insomniac Leak] Spider Man-2 needed to sell 7.2 million copies to be profitable. Budget breakdown and the reason why it was so expensive found
BrunoCoel
Member
You tell 'em.
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theHFIC
Member
You can't just drop a comment like that and not share some details on how your AAA development studio operates.
Interfectum
Member
When are you starting your dev studio? Since the most expensive part is the employee are you planning to do everything yourself?
Stuart360
Member
I dont know how it can happen but game budgets really need to be brought down some how.
I remember a few years ago EA and Ubisoft were talking about consoles and PC's being so good at pushing poluygon counts this gen that studios would be able to use 3D scanners to scan objects and create a ready made asset very quick, saving a ton of money as artists building assets from scratch takes time and money, in fact asset building is the most time consuming and expensive part of development.
It doesnt seem to really of had an effect though so far.
I remember a few years ago EA and Ubisoft were talking about consoles and PC's being so good at pushing poluygon counts this gen that studios would be able to use 3D scanners to scan objects and create a ready made asset very quick, saving a ton of money as artists building assets from scratch takes time and money, in fact asset building is the most time consuming and expensive part of development.
It doesnt seem to really of had an effect though so far.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Exactly. Where were they wasteful?
Magic Carpet
Member
I'm waiting for Spidy 1 and Spidy 2 to be packaged together on PC.
I noticed the Steam Sale the Playstation games are still a bit on the expensive end.
I noticed the Steam Sale the Playstation games are still a bit on the expensive end.
tmlDan
Member
true, fire half the employees and work on one game only and save money.
Im sure that will go well with both consumers and devs within the gaming industry
funking giblet
Member
This is pretty much the breakdown for nearly every software company...
hyperbertha
Member
Does this include marketing? Probably not since it says dev costs. So maybe significantly more than 7 million needed?
Alex Scott
Member
One word: unsustainable
KungFucius
King Snowflake
What about the cut to Marvel?
Thirty7ven
Banned
What did people think it was? Expensive computers?
tmlDan
Member
they hired like crazy, we've discussed this on the forum a lot - more than doubled the studio sizeThey really to stop buying candles.
But seriously, what happened here?
simpatico
Member
We can start with California offices and the shit they throw money away on in the building. Atomic Heart probably got developed on their snack budget. Get some humble cubicles in Kansas City and get back to me.
Step 2: fire everyone who doesn't actively code
You realize STALKER 2 is being developed in a bombed out warzone?
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Exactly what I was going to post.
You can’t tell me money isn’t being wasted. I refuse to believe it.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Unless I am missing something... where are we getting 7.2M sales at full price to break even?
And people tend to look at that final number and say, XYZ game cost such and such to make. But fail to see that that number is amortized over several years. Net spend directly tied to Spiderman, over 5 years, was $295M. That's an average of $59M/year.
That sounds about right for what any AAA studio costs these days in NA. The only way you get that much lower is for your studio to be based in asia or some parts of Europe.
And people tend to look at that final number and say, XYZ game cost such and such to make. But fail to see that that number is amortized over several years. Net spend directly tied to Spiderman, over 5 years, was $295M. That's an average of $59M/year.
That sounds about right for what any AAA studio costs these days in NA. The only way you get that much lower is for your studio to be based in asia or some parts of Europe.
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twilo99
Member
The whole industry needs to be Elon Musked .. wayyy to much bloat all over the place
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Also, PC ports are chump change when looking at porting costs. No way would they ever stop them.
Thirty7ven
Banned
It’s made in Japan. You think directors, actors, etc in Japan get paid the same as they do in Hollywood?
Context is everything.
But that’s what happens when talent is in high demand and there’s a limited amount of it.
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bitbydeath
Member
Isn’t that headcount all of Insomniac?
If so, that 7.2M would be split across their 5-6 teams, and could be recurred in Venom, Wolverine, Spider-man 3, Ratchet and Clank, and X-Men.
If so, that 7.2M would be split across their 5-6 teams, and could be recurred in Venom, Wolverine, Spider-man 3, Ratchet and Clank, and X-Men.
tommib
Member
6 million on localization costs. Sony games have stupendous dubbing in European Portuguese. It’s at the level of any dubbed high-profile film.
Everything is expensive in these games. Sony is totally in in the AAA blockbuster and it’s not coming back.
7.2 million units to break even though is absolutely nuts.
Everything is expensive in these games. Sony is totally in in the AAA blockbuster and it’s not coming back.
7.2 million units to break even though is absolutely nuts.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Insomniac has over 500 staff, while Sucker Punch has almost 200. And before some idiot jumps in and says "maybe Insomniac doesn't need the 500". Since 2018, they've released ~5 games. Sucker Punch has released 1.
Those are 2 studios operating at 2 different scale.
Stuart360
Member
I dont think its 20-30 times cheaper to make movies in Japan. Cheaper yes but i bet Toho could of produced the same results as Godzilla Minus One on a 40-50mil budget in Hollywood.
bitbydeath
Member
That’s not in the OP.
The first slide is just Insomniac stats, which even mentions shared headcount as being inclusive.
Please read people.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
7.2 million copies at full price is 504 million.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
this kind of info is what people are salivating for
Edit: Can someone explain what is the issue?
Edit: Can someone explain what is the issue?
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Maybe, and if it only did 70 million it would be a failure.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
I guess staff is too expensive these days. They are located in California right?
Thirty7ven
Banned
More of a curiosity no? Like knowing certain HBO/Netflix/Disney shows cost 15 to 20 million per episode.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
They literally profited from the last two Spiderman games that they made. Like.........literally.
yurinka
Member
It's worth mentioning that this is only the development budget. Doesn't include the marketing budget (ads, PR, CM etc) from both Sony and Disney.
GoT didn't cost $60M, this is impossible. If real, the $60M would be what has been listed here as "Insomniac Games Headcount: $194.5M" (not counting outsourcing, support, marketing etc)
No, on its peak the project they had 264 Insomniac employees working on it, most of the project the number was way smaller. As of 2021 (they grew since then) they were over 400 people. In LinkedIn they now have over 500 people.
Spider-Man, its remaster, Morales, Rift Apart, Spider-Man 2 and the PC ports (excluding Rift Apart, we still don't have its data) are all profitable. Seems sustainable enough to me.
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Fbh
Member
But why was the increase so big compared to Spiderman 1?
It's not just inflation. Did they drastically increase wages since SP1? Did they have to hire a lot of new people for SP2?.
Either way, it's a shame we don't get info like this from other games. It would be interesting to see how the SP2 budget compared to, say, Hogwarts Legacy, or Jedi Survivor, or Elden Ring or Baldur's Gate 3.
It's not just inflation. Did they drastically increase wages since SP1? Did they have to hire a lot of new people for SP2?.
Either way, it's a shame we don't get info like this from other games. It would be interesting to see how the SP2 budget compared to, say, Hogwarts Legacy, or Jedi Survivor, or Elden Ring or Baldur's Gate 3.
Tomeru
Member
They operate from prague.
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
they hire more people to design diversity npcs.They really to stop buying candles.
But seriously, what happened here?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And how many games did Stalker and Atomic Heart sell again?
Of course it includes marketing and licensing cut to Marvel.
They did. It's called.......
- Spiderman: Miles Morales
- Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
- Spiderman
ChorizoPicozo
Member
yeah. there is this aura of mystery regarding budgets and their production design.
seen these numbers, i am more impressed at how cheap some things are.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
That budget for a game re using assets is absolutely bonkers.
Over 300 million in development costs alone....wowza
Over 300 million in development costs alone....wowza
AngelMuffin
Member
They should hire the folks that made Godzilla Minus One for only $14M.
simpatico
Member
We could look at the margins and see how much profit per dollar spent. It's crazy to think about, but some business care about ROI.
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