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[Herman Cain]

Are you actually saying here that the SNES was popular based on first party casual titles alone, and third parties didn't really get a look in?
While you're accusing other people of revisionist history?

.

Did you even read the latter half of the post you quoted where I clearly didn't say that and said the exact opposite?

Did you actually read my comment?

literally just quoted Opiate saying FFVIII is a cinematic style games did you see it?

It's not just the tone; it's also your absolute conviction of your correctness. You really should not be so sure of your own correctness.

Well if I come across like that then let's just agree to disagree then. Because Im not trying to come across like that.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

You seriously misunderstood my point. I am all for having something for everyone in the market. Supporting open platforms isn't about killing consoles and forcing everyone to buy a gaming PC. There is nothing about the console experience that can't be replicated on a common base platform. That is what I want: an open, common base platform.

Please. alexandros, you're spoiling the furious downfall of Herma(i)n Cain.

 

[Herman Cain]

I would be very surprised if Mario Kart Wii did not have higher replay rates than something like God of War, for instance, which is generally considered "hardcore." The evidence for this would be legs; Mario Kart typically has very long legs, which is indicative that a game (and its community) is still active. That correlation is not absolute, but it's a good rule of thumb absent any other confirmatory evidence.

Legs would imply sales= new players so that doesn't have anything to do with frequency. And of course there will be more core or hardcore gamers playing MK as well, which is probably the majority of the frequent player community a distance after launch, you're stance here only works if we ignore the casuals in the group, who probably stopped playing, or occasional will go back to it. It's whyI believe personally, casuals inflated sales of the game beyond what it actually is (see Mario kart 8 on Wiiu and Mario Kart on Gamecube sales wise.) it shows that if anything a lot of the casuals stopped playing, or caring about MK. I my opinion of course.

But let's just agree to disagree, it seems I'm coming off badly, don't want that.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Did you even read the latter half of the post you quoted where I clearly didn't say that and said the exact opposite?

they just didn't call them (Casuals) ... directly back then. That and kids were the primary targets for Nintendo, this is why they left a huge void the Genesis ... took up.

No you are just revising history (Please remember Nintendo=/=Third parties on NES and SNES)
Why do you think that huge void was there for the Genesis to pick up? (Especially in NA?) a lot of the core games were on Genesis, or games without an easy acess rate, while TP are for or against this on both consoles, it's less so on Genesis, and Nintendo games pretty much sold their consoles. While TP did much more for console sales on genesis.

If you're not saying that the SNES was selling to kids / casuals while the hardcorez was all genesis doing what nintendont, I literally have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[alexandros]

I think at this point being closed is an essential part of the definition of a "console." If "console" just means "thing under your tv," then in theory a phone that wirelessly connects to your TV (as many Android phones already do) can technically be considered a console, but it's not really what we're talking about here.

A system like a Steam machine which is open and for which the hardware is not standardized and which has a recommended controller but which is hardly necessary (and which some games may not support even when bought from Steam itself) is not really what people mean when they say "console." The only feature they clearly share in common with a Playstation at that point is that both play games and both can plug in to your television.

I don't understand why being locked down is such an essential part of the console. Theoretically, let's say that the common open platform is established and Sony releases a PS5 that loads a SteamOS-like operating system that features PSN front and center. How is that functionally any different from the PS4? I guess what I'm asking is, why is being incompatible with everything else important?

 

[Herman Cain]

If you're not saying that the SNES was selling to kids / casuals while the hardcorez was all genesis doing what nintendont, I literally have no idea what you are trying to say.

In terms of moving hardware, for the SNES the FP games were the more popular and moved the largest amount of hardware. TP also moved hardware, just not as much. When people on TV etc, looked at advertisements or what not, or WOM over games were spread, you had games, it was usually FP wise. Nintendos' demographic targeting with exceptions was mostly toward a consumer that was probably not excited to play the next Ninja Giaden.

On the genesis, TP played a much bigger role of moving hardware. Yes, FP moves a lot of hardware as well, but TP was also much more noticable. I mean looking at the top selling games on genesis from Wikipedia, the top 15 genesis games, 9 are third-party titles.

On the SNES, the top 15 games, 5 are third party. (and two of those are japanese only games SNES wise)

So because of this, it would be fair that SNES sales were more targeted to the demographic that a lot of Nintendos FP was aiming at (exceptions are there of course).

Genesis demographic was focusing more on core games than Nintendo was. Perception wise.

In summary, looking at the popular games that sold the most on each consoles, based on the targeted demographics of those games, I'm not saying that Genesis had the hardcore gamers and SNES didn't but I am saying that MORE casual type gamers brought an SNES than a Genesis. While they were less frequent on Genesis. SImilar to PS2 compared to DC/Xbox

This is all of course subjective.

 

[RexNovis]

Did you even read the latter half of the post you quoted where I clearly didn't say that and said the exact opposite?


literally just quoted Opiate saying FFVIII is a cinematic style games did you see it?

Opiate said cinematic style game as in of or pertaining to the style of cinema. "Cinematic game" is an entirely different thing and carries an entirely separate implication in the context of gaming. These two terms are not interchangeable. One denotes an attempt to capture cinematic style while the other carries the connotation of very specific gameplay mechanics that are not at all indicative of JRPGs. You seem to not understand why these are separate things. Diction is important and your insistence that anyone who disagrees with you just doesn't know what they are talking about is as appalling as it is insulting.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I am saying that MORE casual type gamers brought an SNES than a Genesis.

Only in as much as MORE people bought a SNES than a Genesis,full stop.
If you want to talk about "demographics", then look at actual sales of actual titles and oh god why am I even bothering

 

[MilesTeg]

Just gonna pop in and say that 110 million XBO/PS4 by end of 2019 is extremely conservative. The PS4 alone, with price drops and big software, in my opinion will most likely be around that number by itself after 6 holiday seasons (end of 2019). It's only had two thus far, and at $399, and it's around 25 million already. After this holiday season, most likely sitting around 40 million with price drops and much software still to come. These consoles are not loss leaders either, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume a $199 price for both by 2018, possibly earlier.

 

[Herman Cain]

Only in as much as MORE people bought a SNES than a Genesis,full stop.
If you want to talk about "demographics", then look at actual sales of actual titles and oh god why am I even bothering

You're not understanding something very simple, SNES was more popular for Casual games, Genesis was not, which is why SNES consoles sold more in the first place. Yes there were hardcore titles on the SNES, some sold well, a lot didn't. SNES had more casual appealing games on it from the start.

Genesis had a lot more harder arcade games, including niche titles, and less casual appealing titles than the SNES. Outside of MK. So the casual is most LIKELY going to by the SNES over the Genesis.

It's like when the Xbox and PS2 launches are compared, If Xbox and PS2 launched at the same time, PS2 had more casual appealing games at launch than the Xbox which outside of Halo, had niche games, or underutilized genre's in it's library. The casual will by the PS2 more so than an Xbox.

Of course none of this is set in stone.

Opiate said cinematic style game as in of or pertaining to the style of cinema. "Cinematic game" is an entirely different thing

And again as I posted before:

There's a different between Cinematic type of game game (FFVII, FFX, Indigo, Shemue, etc.)

and the modern just Cinematic game (Uncharted, Beyond, Walking dead etc.)

We both said the same thing, and we were referring to the same games (ffvii etc.)

 

[Herman Cain]

Anyway we can agree to disagree, I hope some issues were clarified with the above post, and sorry if I came off badly.

 

[StevieP]

Just gonna pop in and say that 110 million XBO/PS4 by end of 2019 is extremely conservative. The PS4 alone, with price drops and big software, in my opinion will most likely be around that number by itself after 6 holiday seasons (end of 2019). It's only had two thus far, and at $399, and it's around 25 million already. After this holiday season, most likely sitting around 40 million with price drops and much software still to come. These consoles are not loss leaders either, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume a $199 price for both by 2018, possibly earlier.

I believe that IDG's implication is that it's frontloaded (likely based on the fact that these consoles are mostly engaging the core and not much beyond that)

 

[MilesTeg]

I believe that IDG's implication is that it's frontloaded (likely based on the fact that these consoles are mostly engaging the core and not much beyond that)

That is literally going against the grain of how (successful) consoles have faired on the market throughout the industry's history.

I would agree that initial sales were front loaded due to the fact that we had an 8 year generation beforehand. However, not enough so that you can completely ignore historical trends. Right now the consoles are selling around where their predecessors were at this time despite the front loaded sales and no price drops on the PS4. That would suggest that there is still significant room for expansion as PS3 and 360 sold by far most of their units after the first two years and after significant price drops (most notably after hitting the $299 price).

I would also argue that "casual" software offerings had little to do with the success of the PS3 and 360. Those consoles lived on software like GTA, Assassin's Creed, Fallout, CoD, Red Dead, Skyrim, etc. Stuff that is still coming. In reality stuff like Guitar Hero was most popular on PS2 and Wii and was essentially dead by 2010. Kinect was responsible for some hardware sales but in the big picture, 360 was already well established and would have sold a comparable LTD regardless of Kinect (imo). And, there is still plenty of time for the next "fad" software to appear on these boxes as well.

 

[Opiate]

I don't understand why being locked down is such an essential part of the console. Theoretically, let's say that the common open platform is established and Sony releases a PS5 that loads a SteamOS-like operating system that features PSN front and center. How is that functionally any different from the PS4? I guess what I'm asking is, why is being incompatible with everything else important?

Okay, let's start here. What do you believe is an essential part of a console? What specific features make something a "console?"

 

[StevieP]

360 was already well established and would have sold a comparable LTD regardless of Kinect (imo). And, there is still plenty of time for the next "fad" software to appear on these boxes as well.

That's a pretty big imo.

And as I said, currently the ecosystem isn't geared toward expansion beyond core markets. It's (mostly) geared toward placating young male power fantasies.

 

[Opiate]

Really the question being asked implicitly by IDG here is how hard the console market has been hit by the mobile revolution thus far.

Some seem to think that mobile gaming has no effect on consoles whatsoever, as the markets are entirely separate. Still others think (or thought, since this has already been basically disproven) it would destroy the console industry. IDG seems to be saying they believe it is somewhere in the middle, where mobile has significantly impacted consoles, although not destroyed them in quite the same way it has destroyed the handheld marketplace. They're looking at an ~50% drop in console sales overall.

Yes, maybe things will not work out that way. Maybe Morpheus takes off, or a new Kinect sensor does. But it could go worse, too; if Apple starts making (official) docks for iPad8 or something which allows quick, easy connection of your mobile devices to your TV, watch out. If Samsung starts including SteamOS or Chrome or something built in to their TVs, that could cause issues, too. Who knows: the point is that in the distant (5+ years) future, it could break both ways.

 

[MilesTeg]

That's a pretty big imo.

And as I said, currently the ecosystem isn't geared toward expansion beyond core markets. It's (mostly) geared toward placating young male power fantasies.

If Kinect had had any real impact, it's best selling non-bundled game would have sold far more than 3 million units. People who bought Kinect did not buy software for Kinect, showing that in reality the peripheral had no real long lasting impact other than 360 gamers being upset about so much support at the time.

 

[IndoAssassin]

The only time I see consoles taking a big hit is once COD, Battlefield, and sports games become the norm on mobile platforms which you can connect to a tv and play with a controller.

Otherwise consoles are here to stay.

The question that remains is if the market is big enough for 3 players.

 

[MilesTeg]

Really the question being asked implicitly by IDG here is how hard the console market has been hit by the mobile revolution thus far.

Some seem to think that mobile gaming has no effect on consoles whatsoever, as the markets are entirely separate. Still others think (or thought, since this has already been basically disproven) it would destroy the console industry. IDG seems to be saying they believe it is somewhere in the middle, where mobile has significantly impacted consoles, although not destroyed them in quite the same way it has destroyed the handheld marketplace. They're looking at an ~50% drop in console sales overall.

Yes, maybe things will not work out that way. Maybe Morpheus takes off, or a new Kinect sensor does. But it could go worse, too; if Apple starts making (official) docks for iPad8 or something which allows quick, easy connection of your mobile devices to your TV, watch out. If Samsung starts including SteamOS or Chrome or something built in to their TVs, that could cause issues, too. Who knows: the point is that in the distant (5+ years) future, it could break both ways.

Who knows how interested people are in connecting their mobile to a TV. I would wager not very much. You are taking the appeal of it's hardware and software away by removing the device from your hands, removing the touch screen aspect which is a big reason why mobile hardware and software is popular with the masses. And then, you can't even play AAA games on the thing anyway.

 

[Melchiah]

You seriously misunderstood my point. I am all for having something for everyone in the market. Supporting open platforms isn't about killing consoles and forcing everyone to buy a gaming PC. There is nothing about the console experience that can't be replicated on a common base platform. That is what I want: an open, common base platform.

Except the platform holders' own games, which necessarily wouldn't be made if there weren't proprietary platforms to sell with them. I think the fans of any of the big three would see it as a significant loss.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Really the question being asked implicitly by IDG here is how hard the console market has been hit by the mobile revolution thus far.

And PC to an extent, which has added its own disruption. But generally, yes.

The question that remains is if the market is big enough for 3 players.

I think this is more the question IDG is asking. Which is why PS5 and Xbox Two aren't in its forecasts right now. I think IDG is waiting to see how the winds blow over the next year. Is MS building a new dedicated box, or will it be some kind of Windows version of a STEAM Box with an Xbox front end? What will NX actually be? Sony seems like a pretty sure bet for a PS5, but when?

Clearly, the traditional timelines of the console cycle are under pressure.

 

[alexandros]

Okay, let's start here. What do you believe is an essential part of a console? What specific features make something a "console?"

A dedicated gaming box that is easy to use for the layman.

 

[serversurfer]

*over* 50m.

And yes, that's the way the math looks to me. Without knowing the intricacies of their model, cannot say it's 100% confirmed to be the case, however.

Thanks. <3 Well, Nintendo said they'd shipped 9.5M by the end of March. If we assume 8M of those have sold, and that those aren't included in the 34M, then that already puts us at 42M through April for all three, leaving only 8M for all three contenders to sell May-Dec. I know they say, "Over 50M," but they also say, "Over 34M," so if over 50 means "could be 55," are we also assuming over 34 means "could be 42" or something? If you're claiming they're saying, "Will be no less than 8M for all three through the end of the year, but it could be 16M, or maybe even more," well, I could've come up with that too. I mean, Sony and MS could combine to do close to 8M between Black Friday and the end of the year even without the U, and completely ignoring Apr-Oct. After all, Sony did 4.1M during that period last year all on their own. Who would pay for such a forecast? =/

Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just trying to make sense of the numbers. It seems that if Take Two are ignoring the U in the current estimate — and it does seem likely they are — then it seems likely they're also ignoring it in the forecasts, meaning IDG are expecting 16M or so between the PS4 and the Bone, and anything the U sells will just be in addition to that estimate. Does that make sense?

Am I correct in assuming you don't have access to the numbers in question, and are also trying to deduce what they're actually saying here?

 

[Death2494]

Thanks. <3 Well, Nintendo said they'd shipped 9.5M by the end of March. If we assume 8M of those have sold, and that those aren't included in the 34M, then that already puts us at 42M through April for all three, leaving only 8M for all three contenders to sell May-Dec. I know they say, "Over 50M," but they also say, "Over 34M," so if over 50 means "could be 55," are we also assuming over 34 means "could be 42" or something? If you're claiming they're saying, "Will be no less than 8M for all three through the end of the year, but it could be 16M, or maybe even more," well, I could've come up with that too. I mean, Sony and MS could combine to do close to 8M between Black Friday and the end of the year even without the U, and completely ignoring Apr-Oct. After all, Sony did 4.1M during that period last year all on their own. Who would pay for such a forecast? =/

Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just trying to make sense of the numbers. It seems that if Take Two are ignoring the U in the current estimate — and it does seem likely they are — then it seems likely they're also ignoring it in the forecasts, meaning IDG are expecting 16M or so between the PS4 and the Bone, and anything the U sells will just be in addition to that estimate. Does that make sense?

Am I correct in assuming you don't have access to the numbers in question, and are also trying to deduce what they're actually saying here?

What was the last thing Take-Two shipped on the Wii U?

 

[serversurfer]

What was the last thing Take-Two shipped on the Wii U?

It's been a while. That's why it would make sense for them to ignore it when talking about how many "next-gen consoles" have been sold, but it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to include it in the forecast unless they plan to start supporting it again. But I don't think things really add up if the U is being included at either end, so yeah.

Anyway, earlier someone mentioned Sony saying that 30% of Wii owners had purchased a PS4. What Sony really said was that of the people who'd purchased at PS4 up to that point (June 2014), 31% had owned a Wii and/or a 360, but not a PS3. Incidentally, they also said that an additional 17% of PS4 owners hadn't owned any Gen7 console at all, which would indicate a fairly large number of users entering the console market. Hard to say if that offsets the number of people who are leaving the market, but I'd say having that many new users bodes fairly well, especially that early in to the new generation.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

, earlier someone mentioned Sony saying that 30% of Wii owners had purchased a PS4. What Sony really said was that of the people who'd purchased at PS4 up to that point (June 2014), 31% had owned a Wii and/or a 360, but not a PS3. Incidentally, they also said that an additional 17% of PS4 owners hadn't owned any Gen7 console at all, which would indicate a fairly large number of users entering the console market. Hard to say if that offsets the number of people who are leaving the market, but I'd say having that many new users bodes fairly well, especially that early in to the new generation.

More recent data puts that number a lot lower.

 

[serversurfer]

More recent data puts that number a lot lower.

That's US-only. Sony was talking worldwide. The apparent disparity actually fits nicely with what Zhuge has been saying about growth mostly coming from outside the US. I imagine the US console market is fairly saturated by this point, with "growth" primarily coming from siblings who used to share hardware growing up and getting their own places, etc.

Still, ~10% new owners in the US through February is still pretty good, I'd say. That's like 650k noobs just on PS4, just in the US, right?

 

[Shmuely Bully]

Really the question being asked implicitly by IDG here is how hard the console market has been hit by the mobile revolution thus far.

Some seem to think that mobile gaming has no effect on consoles whatsoever, as the markets are entirely separate. Still others think (or thought, since this has already been basically disproven) it would destroy the console industry. IDG seems to be saying they believe it is somewhere in the middle, where mobile has significantly impacted consoles, although not destroyed them in quite the same way it has destroyed the handheld marketplace. They're looking at an ~50% drop in console sales overall.

Yes, maybe things will not work out that way. Maybe Morpheus takes off, or a new Kinect sensor does. But it could go worse, too; if Apple starts making (official) docks for iPad8 or something which allows quick, easy connection of your mobile devices to your TV, watch out. If Samsung starts including SteamOS or Chrome or something built in to their TVs, that could cause issues, too. Who knows: the point is that in the distant (5+ years) future, it could break both ways.

I understand your point, but unless it's using non-proprietary connectors and/or protocols so other mobile devices can use it too that's too limiting to deal consoles a serious blow IMO.

There have been plenty of solutions to hook things up to your TV over the years and they haven't caught on because they're using incompatible hardware and services. It's the same thing that has plagued smart TV (although I question the actual utility there to begin with).

A dedicated gaming box that is easy to use for the layman.

This is a real challenge for consoles both currently and in the future I think. The advantages in terms of ease of use and instant gratification have largely been erased or even reversed when you have to install games from disc and mess around with system software updates.

Traditionally one of the biggest advantages for consoles was that they didn't require any of that crap. Now with the PC performance baseline growing by leaps and bounds and things like Steam making it easier than ever to manage a library, the main advantage is price. How long that continues to matter is anyone's guess.

 

[alexandros]

This is a real challenge for consoles both currently and in the future I think. The advantages in terms of ease of use and instant gratification have largely been erased or even reversed when you have to install games from disc and mess around with system software updates.

Yeah. What I see is convergence, to be honest. Consoles have become more like PCs with their online connectivity and continuous updates, PCs have greatly simplified their maintenance and gaming experience. I mean, in a few months we'll have this hardware...

...that will run this software:

How is this not a games console? Sure, it's a PC underneath that the power user can customize on a hardware and software level. Does it matter to the average consumer? I don't think so. Did it matter to the average consumer that the PS3 had the "Other OS" function that let you install Linux? Was the PS3 not a games console?

So this is what I would like to see in the future. I don't want every gamer to have to build a quad-sli 16-core beast with his bare hands. Hell, even I don't want to do that. I'm just questioning the perceived wisdom that being locked down is an essential part of the console experience.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Still, ~10% new owners in the US through February is still pretty good, I'd say. That's like 650k noobs just on PS4, just in the US, right?

If growth exceeds churn its healthy, if it doesn't, it isn't.

I understand your point, but unless it's using non-proprietary connectors and/or protocols so other mobile devices can use it too that's too limiting to deal consoles a serious blow IMO.

There have been plenty of solutions to hook things up to your TV over the years and they haven't caught on because they're using incompatible hardware and services. It's the same thing that has plagued smart TV (although I question the actual utility there to begin with).

I've said it before, but the convergence future of the TV isn't docks you have to physically put your device into; it's wireless mirroring and induction chargers.

ie, you put your phone on the table you usually put your phone on when you get into the house. It starts charging cable free, and your TV turns on and starts mirroring your phone hiome screen. If you pick up a paired controller, it automatically gos to your 'games' menu.

 

[GoonerTRON]

Yeah. What I see is convergence, to be honest. Consoles have become more like PCs with their online connectivity and continuous updates, PCs have greatly simplified their maintenance and gaming experience. I mean, in a few months we'll have this hardware...



...that will run this software:



How is this not a games console? Sure, it's a PC underneath that the power user can customize on a hardware and software level. Does it matter to the average consumer? I don't think so. Did it matter to the average consumer that the PS3 had the "Other OS" function that let you install Linux? Was the PS3 not a games console?

So this is what I would like to see in the future. I don't want every gamer to have to build a quad-sli 16-core beast with his bare hands. Hell, even I don't want to do that. I'm just questioning the perceived wisdom that being locked down is an essential part of the console experience.

As soon as you bring in upgradable parts, graphics settings and anti virus software it is not a game console. It is a Personal Computer with a quick boot function into Steam.

 

[Raist]

I don't understand why being locked down is such an essential part of the console. Theoretically, let's say that the common open platform is established and Sony releases a PS5 that loads a SteamOS-like operating system that features PSN front and center. How is that functionally any different from the PS4? I guess what I'm asking is, why is being incompatible with everything else important?

Because it's a business model. At the end of the day the profits are generated not so much by selling the hardware, but using that as a platform to sell much more profitable things - essentially software, subscriptions, royalties etc.
If it was completely open then there would be really no point for a company to put the efforts and investments into building these consoles because there would be no (or at least a lot less) financial return. Conversely PC are much more open precisely because it's not really a platform that "belongs" to anyone.

 

[kyser73]

This is a real challenge for consoles both currently and in the future I think. The advantages in terms of ease of use and instant gratification have largely been erased or even reversed when you have to install games from disc and mess around with system software updates.

Traditionally one of the biggest advantages for consoles was that they didn't require any of that crap. Now with the PC performance baseline growing by leaps and bounds and things like Steam making it easier than ever to manage a library, the main advantage is price. How long that continues to matter is anyone's guess.

I disagree. So long as the processes you've talked about are as simple as they are on smartphones (and I'm thinking specifically of iPhones) I doubt people are tely that bothered by installation & firmware updates.

The instant gratification of cartridge-based gaming isn't coming back.

 

[BradleyLove]

Yeah. What I see is convergence, to be honest. Consoles have become more like PCs with their online connectivity and continuous updates, PCs have greatly simplified their maintenance and gaming experience. I mean, in a few months we'll have this hardware...



...that will run this software:



How is this not a games console? Sure, it's a PC underneath that the power user can customize on a hardware and software level. Does it matter to the average consumer? I don't think so. Did it matter to the average consumer that the PS3 had the "Other OS" function that let you install Linux? Was the PS3 not a games console?

So this is what I would like to see in the future. I don't want every gamer to have to build a quad-sli 16-core beast with his bare hands. Hell, even I don't want to do that. I'm just questioning the perceived wisdom that being locked down is an essential part of the console experience.

Let me get this right... You're against "walled gardens" yet your solution (for the layman) is a SFF PC that boots automatically into a "walled garden".

Utter genius, that.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

You're against "walled gardens" yet your solution (for the layman) is a SFF PC that boots automatically into a "walled garden".

Can we not start this false equivalency shit again please?

 

[Javin98]

You seriously misunderstood my point. I am all for having something for everyone in the market. Supporting open platforms isn't about killing consoles and forcing everyone to buy a gaming PC. There is nothing about the console experience that can't be replicated on a common base platform. That is what I want: an open, common base platform.

See, the bolded statement? It's what YOU want. Just because YOU want it doesn't mean everyone else wants it. And you openly said you wanted consoles to die. I, for one, love my PS3 and am planning to get a PS4 this holiday season. So excuse me, but there is still a market for people who wants consoles.

 

[Death2494]

You seriously misunderstood my point. I am all for having something for everyone in the market. Supporting open platforms isn't about killing consoles and forcing everyone to buy a gaming PC. There is nothing about the console experience that can't be replicated on a common base platform. That is what I want: an open, common base platform.

Windows PC Gaming? By "open" I assume you mean modifying game setting, having mods, and "common base" meaning widely used or accepted. I could be wrong.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Windows PC Gaming? By "open" I assume you mean modifying game setting, having mods, and "common base" meaning widely used or accepted. I could be wrong.

..are you saying that the Windows Pc isn't an open platform? even as a comparative to consoles?

Do we just invent meanings for words now to prove arguments? because that's just purple.

 

[CosmicQueso]

I don't understand why people are being so tough on Alexandros. Microsoft seems to be testing the waters with Windows/Xbox cross stuff they're doing, and designed for gaming PCs with a console-like UI are coming this holiday.

Having an open platform is better for just about everyone outside of the current closed platform holders. $8-$12 of cost is added to every console game you buy due to 1st party royalties. And what benefit is that to the consumer?

Another poster pointed it out... while Consoles will stick around for quite some time, the ability of the market to sustain 3 platform holders is questionable at best.

Am I correct in assuming you don't have access to the numbers in question, and are also trying to deduce what they're actually saying here?

I'm looking at IDG's latest forecast right now, but obviously cannot state what the numbers precisely are.

Your over 50 estimate is closer to the real number than 50, I'll give you that.

Again, I'll just say that IDG produces a conservative console forecast, and it definitely appears as though they are forecasting a contraction in console sales for the remaining months of this year when compared to last.

 

[Opiate]

A dedicated gaming box that is easy to use for the layman.

How does one define "dedicated?" The PS4 and Xbox One have many additional features beyond gaming. Does that mean they aren't consoles?

 

[BradleyLove]

Can we not start this false equivalency shit again please?

False equivalency? Right

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah. What I see is convergence, to be honest. Consoles have become more like PCs with their online connectivity and continuous updates, PCs have greatly simplified their maintenance and gaming experience. I mean, in a few months we'll have this hardware...



...that will run this software:



How is this not a games console? Sure, it's a PC underneath that the power user can customize on a hardware and software level. Does it matter to the average consumer? I don't think so.

Whether it matters or not to the average consumer will ultimately be determined by how many millions of consumers buy them.

 

[...Scatter...]

Really the question being asked implicitly by IDG here is how hard the console market has been hit by the mobile revolution thus far.

Some seem to think that mobile gaming has no effect on consoles whatsoever, as the markets are entirely separate. Still others think (or thought, since this has already been basically disproven) it would destroy the console industry. IDG seems to be saying they believe it is somewhere in the middle, where mobile has significantly impacted consoles, although not destroyed them in quite the same way it has destroyed the handheld marketplace. They're looking at an ~50% drop in console sales overall.

Yes, maybe things will not work out that way. Maybe Morpheus takes off, or a new Kinect sensor does. But it could go worse, too; if Apple starts making (official) docks for iPad8 or something which allows quick, easy connection of your mobile devices to your TV, watch out. If Samsung starts including SteamOS or Chrome or something built in to their TVs, that could cause issues, too. Who knows: the point is that in the distant (5+ years) future, it could break both ways.

Man - maybe I'll consider an iPad to be even a general threat to gaming when they stop charging $600 for a 32gig model with no memory expansion. I think consoles and mobile serve different audiences, but that topic had been debated ad nauseam.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

False equivalency? Right

SteamOS is not a walled garden.
It is engineered as a piece of software so that not only is it not a walled garden, it never can be a walled garden.
Describing it in terms of "walled gardens" is ignorant to the point of being disinformation.

So please don't do that.

 

[spatenfloot]

People are ignoring the main benefit of consoles: standardized, fixed hardware.
People buy consoles because they can buy a game for it and know it will work. Over time, it even gets better.
Compare Last of Us to a release game. A 7 year old computer will not run a new game well, but a 7 year old console will still run a game made for it. Yes, you can upgrade a computer or open system, but the vast majority of people don't want to or are not capable of it.

 

[CosmicQueso]

People are ignoring the main benefit of consoles: standardized, fixed hardware.

No one is ignoring the benefit of consoles. What some are implying is that when/if an open platform like the PC can deliver the same benefits that it could be a good thing.

 

[spatenfloot]

No one is ignoring the benefit of consoles. What some are implying is that when/if an open platform like the PC can deliver the same benefits that it could be a good thing.

Yes, but it can't do that as long as pc hardware varies like it does. It doesn't work both ways.
Without a protected market, there is no incentive for making consoles. Without the standardized hardware, there is less of a market for the games.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

A 7 year old computer will not run a new game well, but a 7 year old console will still run a game made for it.

A 7 year old computer will run a new game well, depending on the game.
A 7 year old console doesn't necessarily even have any titles being made for it anymore.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Yes, but it can't do that as long as pc hardware varies like it does. It doesn't work both ways.
Without a protected market, there is no incentive for making consoles. Without the standardized hardware, there is less of a market for the games.

We're not disagreeing. The great hope of the Steam Machine and similar ideas is that what makes console gaming appealing to people can be integrated into a more open PC platform.

It's definitely not there yet... but you can definitely see some companies testing the waters. Might never happen sure.

 

[alexandros]

See, the bolded statement? It's what YOU want. Just because YOU want it doesn't mean everyone else wants it.

Well... yeah. Obviously. Do we really have to preface everything we say with "it's only my personal opinion guys, if you don't like it that's cool too"? I want that because I believe it will be better for everyone. Obviously some will disagree. Isn't that why forums are for? The exchange of opinions?

How does one define "dedicated?" The PS4 and Xbox One have many additional features beyond gaming. Does that mean they aren't consoles?

Exactly my point. If the definition of a games console was as rigid as some people want it to be then the last true consoles were the SNES and the Megadrive.