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[NightmareFarm]

What "Kusoge" means is essentially "fun shit game". It's mostly used in the fighting game circles but i've seen people use it for some other type of games, usually JRPGs. And i've seen people echo the same sentiment towards other type of games a lot even if they don't know the exact term to describe it.

The way I see it, it's an oxymoron for wine sipping pseudointellectuals who think their taste is so "refined" that they can't just admit that a fun game is good if they perceive it to have "on paper" flaws which prevent it from being "good".

If a game is fun, then it is not shit. The role of a game is to entertain the player. Just like how the job of a cleaning product is to clean bacteria from surfaces. Just like how the job of a lamp is to illuminate the surroundings. If it succeeds at entertaining the player then it is good. If it fails to entertain the player, then it is bad. Simple. You can argue other games are better if they are more polished or better designed or whatever. But ultimately, if it is fun then it is good.

This sort of "kusoge" mentality just confuses things and doesn't give developers credit where it is due for creating games that other people will enjoy. I've seen games which people admit are fun(kusoge) get completely trashed by those same people and reviewbombed and ultimately flop as a result. It's a very anti-fun mentality that makes people forget why they play games to begin with and hurts the industry.

 

[FatallyYours]

I hate sprouts and bananas

 

[killatopak]

It's definitely a term some use as an endearment as with my case.

For example, EDF is great fun but you can't deny how janky it is. So much that people might just dip their toes and just get turned off by the initial experience.

It's just a different term for so bad it's good, Eurojank etc.

 

[Three]

What "Kusoge" means is essentially "fun shit game". It's mostly used in the fighting game circles but i've seen people use it for some other type of games, usually JRPGs. And i've seen people echo the same sentiment towards other type of games a lot even if they don't know the exact term to describe it.

The way I see it, it's an oxymoron for wine sipping pseudointellectuals who think their taste is so "refined" that they can't just admit that a game is good if they perceive it to have "on paper" flaws which prevent it from being "good".

If a game is fun, then it is not shit. The role of a game is to entertain the player. Just like how the job of a cleaning product is to clean bacteria from surfaces. Just like how the job of a lamp is to illuminate the surroundings. If it succeeds at entertaining the player then it is good. If it fails to entertain the player, then it is bad. Simple. This sort of mentality just confuses things and doesn't give developers credit where it is due for creating games that other people will enjoy. I've seen games which people admit are fun(kusoge) get completely trashed by those same people and reviewbombed and ultimately flop as a result. It's a very anti-fun mentality that hurts the industry.

I can see where you're coming from but you can have a game that's fun to play but fundamentally broken in terms of strategy or balance. I think it refers more to that than just being a game people can't admit they like.

 

[dreamstation]

Never even heard the term used to be honest.

 

[NightmareFarm]

I can see where you're coming from but you can have a game that's fun to play but fundamentally broken in terms of strategy or balance. I think it refers more to that than just being a game people can't admit they like.

If it's entertaining then it is good, period.

Now, what you mentioned are flaws that prevent it from being as good as some of its peers but ultimately whether it is entertaining or not is what determines if it is a good game.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Never even heard the term used to be honest.

Consider yourself lucky.

 

[Toots]

It's the equivalent of "so bad it's good", nothing to be mad about.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Kusoge was a mistake

 

[kanjobazooie]

Even critically acclaimed games can get called "trash" or "shit" on the internet. It's just how communities are.

 

[RagnarokIV]

Never heard this stupid weeb term before but thread is going as According to Keikaku I guess

poster's note: Keikaku means plan.

 

[NightmareFarm]

It's definitely a term some use as an endearment as with my case.

For example, EDF is great fun but you can't deny how janky it is. So much that people might just dip their toes and just get turned off by the initial experience.

It's just a different term for so bad it's good, Eurojank etc.

see
>>

If it's entertaining then it is good, period.

Now, what you mentioned are flaws that prevent it from being as good as some of its peers but ultimately whether it is entertaining or not is what determines if it is a good game.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Even critically acclaimed games can get called "trash" or "shit" on the internet. It's just how communities are.

I'm not saying critically acclaimed games are the same thing as fun games. I don't think crticially acclaimed games are above reproach at all. But imo admitting to enjoy one but also calling it "shit" at the same time is distasteful.

 

[Skelterz]

Never even heard the term used to be honest.

I’m with you never heard this comment before but then again I don’t live on the internet and have sex regularly so that’s probably why..

 

[Three]

If it's entertaining then it is good, period.

Now, what you mentioned are flaws that prevent it from being as good as some of its peers but ultimately whether it is entertaining or not is what determines if it is a good game.

I think that's kind of the point of it. They often use it as a term of endearment to mean "I know this game is probably flawed and strategy or gameplay isn't that well thought out but its still stupid fun". Nobody is going to pretend that beer pong or spin the bottle isn't fun, or that its aim isn't to be fun, but it's not exactly chess.

 

[Skelterz]

It's the equivalent of "so bad it's good", nothing to be mad about.

What "Kusoge" means is essentially "fun shit game". It's mostly used in the fighting game circles but i've seen people use it for some other type of games, usually JRPGs. And i've seen people echo the same sentiment towards other type of games a lot even if they don't know the exact term to describe it.

The way I see it, it's an oxymoron for wine sipping pseudointellectuals who think their taste is so "refined" that they can't just admit that a fun game is good if they perceive it to have "on paper" flaws which prevent it from being "good".

If a game is fun, then it is not shit. The role of a game is to entertain the player. Just like how the job of a cleaning product is to clean bacteria from surfaces. Just like how the job of a lamp is to illuminate the surroundings. If it succeeds at entertaining the player then it is good. If it fails to entertain the player, then it is bad. Simple. You can argue other games are better if they are more polished or better designed or whatever. But ultimately, if it is fun then it is good.

This sort of "kusoge" mentality just confuses things and doesn't give developers credit where it is due for creating games that other people will enjoy. I've seen games which people admit are fun(kusoge) get completely trashed by those same people and reviewbombed and ultimately flop as a result. It's a very anti-fun mentality that makes people forget why they play games to begin with and hurts the industry.

thanks for introducing me to a new term I’ll almost always use now in the context you despise, really awesome thread 10/10 would read again.

 

[Skifi28]

I rike the term.

 

[Skelterz]

I rike the term.

#Metoo

 

[Guilty_AI]

bad games can be fun, i don't see the issue

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I've never heard the term used for endearment. Usually a shit game is just that, a shit game.

The Japanese also like to refer to the Xbox as the "kuso-box" and that is NOT a term of endearment.

 

[NightmareFarm]

I think that's kind of the point of it. They often use it as a term of endearment to mean "I know this game is probably flawed and strategy or gameplay isn't that well thought out but its still stupid fun". Nobody is going to pretend that beer pong or spin the bottle isn't fun, or that its aim isn't to be fun, but it's not exactly chess.

Almost every game is flawed. Does that mean they are all bad unless they are 10/10 games?

Like, ok some games are 6/10s. Or 7/10s. But that is still good even if they have some jank. Calling it kusoge just undermines fun games and leads to games like DnF Duel flopping. It's ungrateful and distasteful. The utility of a game is to entertain the player, so if a game is fun then it is objectively good.

 

[NightmareFarm]

bad games can be fun, i don't see the issue

The issue is people who refer to fun games as "bad" mislead potential buyers into not getting it.

 

[baphomet]

Kusoge literally means shit game

Nothing to do with being fun.

 

[SJRB]

Who says this? Never heard this before in my life.

 

[Hypereides]

The issue is people who refer to fun games as "bad" mislead potential buyers into not getting it.

Anyone who unironically, uses that term tells me that the particular video game is "video gamey", if that makes sense. Its often used in a derogatory sense by snobs who think the game doesn't meet their sublime "high standards" or something.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The issue is people who refer to fun games as "bad" mislead potential buyers into not getting it.

I wouldn't say its misleading.

EYE Divine Cybermancy is fun. Its also bad. And not something the average player would enjoy.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Kusoge literally means shit game

Nothing to do with being fun.

The Fighting Game Glossary | infil.net

Browse and explore the definitions for over 800 fighting game terms, complete with video examples and Japanese translations.

glossary.infil.net

>Literally "shitty game" in Japanese. The term tends to somewhat lovingly refer to highly broken fighting games that end up being fun to play despite bad design choices or bugs that are so severe that they impact every aspect of strategy. Many kusoge have small but devoted followings in Japanese arcades. If you can bounce your opponent off the ground like a basketball for 99 seconds any time you hit them, there's a strong chance you are playing kusoge.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Anyone who unironically, uses that term tells me that the particular video game is "video gamey", if that makes sense. Its often used in a derogatory sense by snobs who think the game doesn't meet their sublime "high standards" or something.

Someone gets it. I really dislike this whole psuedointellectual anti-fun mentality.

 

[Danjin44]

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

It’s nice to hate things.

 

[NightmareFarm]

I wouldn't say its misleading.

EYE Divine Cybermancy is fun. Its also bad. And not something the average player would enjoy.

Then it isn't fun, and is therefore bad.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The Fighting Game Glossary | infil.net

Browse and explore the definitions for over 800 fighting game terms, complete with video examples and Japanese translations.

glossary.infil.net

Many kusoge have small but devoted followings in Japanese arcades.

I think thats the thing here. They are bad games that the average player wouldn't enjoy, but a few autistic individuals do because of some ridiculous reason.

Kind like EYE Divine Cybermancy.

Then it isn't fun, and is therefore bad.

People can have fun with popsicle sticks if they put their mind into it. Its not a democratic thing.

I think the issue here is your trying to behold yourself to some universal definition of "fun" when there isn't any.

 

[NightmareFarm]

I think thats the thing here. They are bad games that the average player wouldn't enjoy, but a few autistic individuals do because of some ridiculous reason.

Kind like EYE Divine Cybermancy.


People can have fun with popsicle sticks if they put their mind into it. Its not a democratic thing. I think the issue here is your trying to behold some universal definition of "fun" when there isn't any.

>I think thats the thing here. They are bad games that the average player wouldn't enjoy, but a few autistic individuals do because of some ridiculous reason.

Idk about that, people can refer to a game with mass appeal as "kusoge". In fact a lot of time in the FGC people say a game is "kusoge" and "casual"(mass appeal) in the same statement.

>I think the issue here is your trying to behold some universal definition of "fun" when there isn't any.

I think the only objective way to go about it is the purpose of a product or what consumers purchase the product for. In the context of gaming, that would be to have fun. So therefore, the metric for whether a game is good or not is if it is fun.

 

[Ailike]

Stop liking things I don't like!

 

[Griffon]

 

[consoul]

Kusoge basically describes every game Jaleco ever made.

and that's why I love Jaleco.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Idk about that, people can refer to a game with mass appeal as "kusoge". In fact a lot of time in the FGC people say a game is "kusoge" and "casual"(mass appeal) in the same statement.

I think the only objective way to go about it is the purpose of a product or what consumers purchase the product for. In the context of gaming, that would be to have fun. So therefore, the metric for whether a game is good or not is if it is fun.

And now you're conflating something subjective like fun with more objective things like the state of a product or how well designed its mechanics are.

Many mass appeal games have very poorly designed mechanics, but people still like them because:
A: Stuff like how well designed the rules are go above the average joe's head.
B: The main appeal isn't on the mechanics but somewhere else (like story, presentation, etc.)

Then there's also situations like Cyberpunk where the product is a bad one due to the state it released, but its still a generally well designed game that most people think its fun to play.

When people say its a bad game but fun (or Kusoge i guess), they're usually refering to situations like those.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Stop liking things I don't like!

We can't criticise video game terminology on a forum dedicated to discussion about video games?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Nah Kusoge just means shitty game. Or rather crappy game. Nothing fun or enjoyable about it.

Like say Action 52.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

2023's Wanted: Dead is the most Kusoge game of the past few years.
It's Kusoge.You hear me OP ? Kusoge.
Maybe not as much kusoge as something as kusoge as the kusogest game like, i don't know - insert kusoge game here - but it's definitely kusoge.

maybe if it wasn't kusoge i wouldn't care as much, thing is, it's definitely kusoge and while you don't like the term kusoge, kusoge, for what it is , it's still a term and a good one at that.kusoge
what is kusoge in the end ?
I may like kusoge, you, on the other hand may not like kusoge but kusoge is still kusoge.

kusoge

 

[nial]

'Kusoge' is not specifically used for "shit, but fun" games or whatever, it's inherently a derogative term in any form.
Also, to make your life better, stop engaging with the FGC, it's literally full of autistic retards.

 

[NightmareFarm]

And now you're conflating something subjective like fun with more objective things like the state of a product or how well designed its mechanics are.

Many mass appeal games have very poorly designed mechanics, but people still like them because:
A: Stuff like how well designed the rules are go above the average joe's head.
B: The main appeal isn't on the mechanics but somewhere else (like story, presentation, etc.)

Then there's also situations like Cyberpunk where the product is a bad one due to the state it released, but its still a generally well designed game that most people think its fun to play.

When people say its a bad game but fun (or Kusoge i guess), they're usually refering to situations like those.

Fun on an individual to individual basis is subjective, but it is objective that the value of a game is determined by how fun it is, since the purpose of a game is to entertain. You could argue rating systems give somewhat of an objective value of how fun a game is. There are various factors that can skew ratings(including people who have the "kusoge" mentality), they aren't gospel but they are generally reliable.

>objective things like the state of a product or how well designed its mechanics

How well designed mechanics are is subjective. Ones idea of good game design is different than another.

>Stuff like how well designed the rules are go above the average joe's head

I'd say if an average joe is able to enjoy a game then it is at the very least good. You could argue other games are better if they have better designed mechanics that shine at high levels of play. In this scenario both games are fun and therefore, good. Even if one game is a 6/10 and the other is an 8/10.

 

[NightmareFarm]

'Kusoge' is not specifically used for "shit, but fun" games or whatever, it's inherently a derogative term in any form.
Also, to make your life better, stop engaging with the FGC, it's literally full of autistic retards.

Ditto. I quit the FGC back in 2021. Just referring to the term they use.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Nah Kusoge just means shitty game. Or rather crappy game. Nothing fun or enjoyable about it.

Like say Action 52.

The Fighting Game Glossary | infil.net

Browse and explore the definitions for over 800 fighting game terms, complete with video examples and Japanese translations.

glossary.infil.net

>Literally "shitty game" in Japanese. The term tends to somewhat lovingly refer to highly broken fighting games that end up being fun to play despite bad design choices or bugs that are so severe that they impact every aspect of strategy. Many kusoge have small but devoted followings in Japanese arcades. If you can bounce your opponent off the ground like a basketball for 99 seconds any time you hit them, there's a strong chance you are playing kusoge.

 

[baphomet]

The Fighting Game Glossary | infil.net

Browse and explore the definitions for over 800 fighting game terms, complete with video examples and Japanese translations.

glossary.infil.net

>Literally "shitty game" in Japanese. The term tends to somewhat lovingly refer to highly broken fighting games that end up being fun to play despite bad design choices or bugs that are so severe that they impact every aspect of strategy. Many kusoge have small but devoted followings in Japanese arcades. If you can bounce your opponent off the ground like a basketball for 99 seconds any time you hit them, there's a strong chance you are playing kusoge.

In Japanese video gaming, a kusoge (クソゲー, kusogē, pronounced [kɯ̥soɡeː] lit. 'crappy game', is an unenjoyable or poorly made video game. Though the label is usually applied disparagingly, there is a subculture of celebrating kusoge.


This isn't some new term, it's nearly 40 years old. The FGC using it isn't saying a game is fun. They're saying the game is completely broken.

 

[NightmareFarm]

In Japanese video gaming, a kusoge (クソゲー, kusogē, pronounced [kɯ̥soɡeː] lit. 'crappy game', is an unenjoyable or poorly made video game. Though the label is usually applied disparagingly, there is a subculture of celebrating kusoge.


This isn't some new term, it's nearly 40 years old. The FGC using it isn't saying a game is fun. They're saying the game is completely broken.

Maybe the definitions have changed but the context it's always used in recent years is to refer to a fun shitty game(although said game is usually unbalanced, broken or janky in some capacity).

 

[Guilty_AI]

How well designed mechanics are is subjective. Ones idea of good game design is different than another.

They really aren't. There are very clear rules on desining games, like consistency, variety, etc.
If you make a final boss easier than the first boss in a mainly mechanically and challenge driven game, thats objectively bad design.
If you make a level thats overly complicated and convoluted to get through, with obscure rules and puzzles, thats also bad design.

I'd say if an average joe is able to enjoy a game then it is at the very least good.

I could say something about pop music here, but thats another discussion entirely. Lets leave at being popular doesn't equal being good.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I enjoy Musou games. Most do not. Some games are an acquired taste and rather subjective on what is and what isn't fun.

 

[Arsic]

Heard the term the first time used just the other day for a stream of a fist of the North Star fighting game.

It absolutely was that. One of the characters had an infinite with just a crouching light punch lmao. Another had teleports with no recovery frames.

It’s broken and could be fun , but it’s also janky in other ways too.

The term is perfect for that game lol

 

[Toots]

Then it isn't fun, and is therefore bad.

You are not fun therefore you are bad therefore your uber serious takes are wrong which make them funny therefore you are funny therefore you are good and so is your thread.
Your thread is bad and good at the same time it is a kusothread.
Well done !