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How well do you believe Phil Spencer has handled Xbox from 2017-Present?

How well has Phil Spencer handled Xbox?

  • He has been handling it well

    Votes: 243 70.8%
  • He has been handling it poorly

    Votes: 100 29.2%

  • Total voters
    343

Matsuchezz

Member
Maybe your big brother will allow you to play on his Xbox more after you finish your homework.
Actually he is my big brother, and it was a gift from me to him. Because I saw him playing ninja Gaiden on his old Xbox360. And wanted to treat him. He is enjoying gears of war. I played those years ago. What a bore fest.
 

ryzen1

Member
At least he is doing better than everyone else before.

Now and then I'm resubscribing to GP when its available for 1€ again. But there is not much I want to play.
There's still a big gap in big games that keeps me from fully engaging with the Xbox platform.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Really well? Uh no. Xbox gamers are throwing fits about 343 and Halo, membership concerns and how series x isn’t that better than the one.

Excuse Me What GIF
Spanish What GIF
Oh No What GIF by Loryn Powell
 

mxbison

Member
No idea how good the GamePass approach is for their revenue, but they definitely have a much better standing among players.

I'll probably buy an Xbox for the first time later this year.
 
In 2017, Phil Spencer was given full control of Xbox and all interactive related departments at Microsoft that related to gaming in some shape or form. Earlier this year, Satya created a brand new position for him that didn't exist before, the CEO of Microsoft gaming.

As of now it's been 5 years since Phil Spencer has been top management for everything software and hardware related regarding gaming and interactivity. How well do you think has he handled Xbox during these last 5 years?

Imo, there's one major issue I have with Phils approach that I knew years ago would create multiple problems in the long term, and that's how he approached the Xbox One problem and how it's, for now, impacting how the Series X is being handled. I believe he made a critical miscalculation that is only not as bad as it would have been, due to missteps by its competitor, if not for that things would be a lot worse.

What am I referring to? The Xbox One had already solved most problems it launched with by the date pf Phils promotion, the issue with the Xbox One at that point was releasing in countries late, and some countries not at all, a lack of exclusive deals, a lack of major big console exclusive games that were first party, the weak hardware, and disorganization among teams within Xbox and its partners.

What Phil and other Xbox heads did was something that still doesn't make sense to me. They saw the major focus on services led to backlash of the Xbox One before it launched, leading to reversals, TVTVTV is still repeated out of context today, however the Xbox One still launched with various services, some failed, some held out. But it wasn't moving the needle in sales and mindshare once games and output dried up in 2015. Phil saw the problems of software and games, hardware, and services, but he decided for some strange reason, to focus on hardware and services first, and then dealt with the gaming and software last.

He wasn't promoted yet but he was involved with the Xbox One S redesign. he then teased Project Scorpio as a reboot of the Xbox One brand, arguably too much so as it confused people on whether it was actually a new console. Project Scorpio was later revealed to be the Xbox One X, and at the E3 people where wearing T-shirts by Microsoft about seeing the most powerful consoles ever, and the game reveals introduced the new term "console launch exclusive" being deliberately confusing. But in reality he still didn't solve the game studio problem. In 2017, he was still carrying on previous delays and cancellations, the development teams were still not organized, he still didn't have big timed exclusive games, or anticipated third party exclusives on the platform.

Instead he brought in enhanced BC, revamped Microsoft rewards, revamped Xbox One software features, and introduced Game Pass. He didn't really start getting studios in order until 2019, when Crackdown 3 finally came out, and started pursuing acquisitions since it would take too long to create new studios from scratch and seek out acquisitions a few studios at the same time, something he could have already been doing since 2017.

What ended up happening as a result is shown with how the Xbox Series consoles launched. Halo was announced as a launch game with other titles, those titles later didn't have dates, Halo itself was delayed, and Xbox Series X launched with nothing but an enhanced version of Gears 5 DLC. In 2021, some games were released but not many, there was still a major focus on services, they already had the hardware, Series X being the most powerful console this gen, Series S being the weakest but most affordable. After 2021, the games stopped, and for 2022 the big AA or AAA console exclusives have been bare this whole year.

I believe all these issues, including several of the delays, the cancellations, and the communication issues internally all came from his poor choices on what to focus on with the Xbox One, and it's now having a negative impact on the Series consoles. What he should have done imo, was focus on hardware and games first, and focused on services last. The hardware already gave you the BC, and Game Pass when it started was very bare bones, so you could have still had those while you gradually improved them and other software services overtime.

This way, when the Xbox Series consoles launched, Halo or not, there would have been games ready, the studios would have been more efficient and games would have been ready for 2022, less delays, and Game Pass and BC still would have grown the same way, other features may have fallen behind but they would be improving fast. What's important is that games showing off the superior hardware would have been ready at launch.

I believe in any other scenario this would have been a fatal mistake, but because the competition gave Microsoft multiple openings while stepping on it's own foot, Microsoft got lucky and still have the mindshare, got away with the delayed games (it's competitor dealt with this too to a lesser degree), and now seem to be set to turn things around in 2023, assuming there aren't more delays and the games come out well received, but if it wasn't for these fortunate events things would have been much worse.

I hope Phil chooses better priorities next time. Putting so much focus on services on the Xbox One, a console already hanging onto relevancy by a thread, instead of their next console games was a waste of time and resources, BC and Game Pass in their basic forms is fine but those and the others software features being the focus never made sense, because you were taking time needed to organize your studios and get them ready for next gen, for something that wasn't going to change the fate of the Xbox One, and he wasted several years on this that could have went toward studio and game development.

Jury's out on what happens in 2023. Even though I think he has made a crucial mistake with his priorities, Phil has done a good job in other areas such as delivering All Access, which allows you to own a next generation console with affordable monthly payments, acquiring some of the finest developer studios, giving us Xbox as the most powerful console again, Game Pass and the new Game pass friends and gamily plan, expansive enhanced BC, great software features, and an easy way to expand storage, though expensive. But, some of this could have waited a year or two while they were substituted by better studios and game output, and I hope that 2023 is the year where Phil shows he finally has that under control, and we don't have any more delays, games announced with trailers before the devs even know what the game is supposed to be, or Halo Infinites.

If he can get that done, then I'll say he's doing well. For those that agree I'll enable vote changing, just in case he turns it around with games next year.
Choices in the poll my dude. It would be better with these:
•Excellent
•Very Good
•Good
•Satisfactory
•Poor
 

DaGwaphics

Member
So 360 pre-Don was worse is what you're saying?

In regards to long-term positioning sure. The strongest part of the 360 gen was all moneyhats and exclusivity/marketing deals without a strong enough first-party. Not the best way forward, that is difficult to sustain throughout a generation. Now they have a strong stable of studios that includes several proven hit makers outside the stand Xbox allstars of Halo, Gears, and Forza.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Honestly, jury is still out for me. He's easily better than the last lot, and better than Jim Ryan is handling Playstation right now, but Phil still hasn't as yet put his money where his mouth is on anything other than GamePass (which continues to be excellent, but now has more competition). The only thing that matters is the games that get released for the Xbox, and it's going to be well into next year before we can tell how well Phil's doing on that front. I'm more optimistic for XBox right now than Playstation though. Phil seems to be more in tune with the right decisions for gamers than Jimbo.
 

Havoc2049

Member
When SOT released with Zero content and received a big backlash, Rare stated it wasn't a AAA game to begin with. I'm not trying to dismiss that the game has improved since launch, but lets not be disingenuous with our statements.

Or do you not remember the release of SOT?
Sea of Thieves came out March 20, 2018. Sea of Thieves has always been a AAA game, going back to the initial E3 reveal. It had content from day one, as the initial three Trading Companies with various mission types, Pirate Legend XP goal system, world enemies, world events and PVP were all in place. Like with almost all successful MMO's, reviewers mentioned that what was there was great, but if Rare didn't update it soon, gamers would become bored, thus they dinged it a few points in review scores at launch. Well, that was Rare's plan all along and the first major update came eight weeks after launch and it introduced a multi-crew story driven experience that ended in a large scale boss fight and introduced a new world event with the introduction of the Megaladon. There has been a steady flow of content since. Rare even won a BAFTA back in 2018 for the sound design and music in Sea of Thieves.

Sea of Thieves initial reveal trailer:

There is also Microsoft Flight Simulator and Age of Empires IV, as those dev teams were shut down years ago and the franchises hadn't seen a release in like 15+ years. Getting those franchises back up and running was almost like starting a new franchise.

Grounded comes out September 27th and has turned into a AAA experience.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
The strongest part of the 360 gen was all moneyhats and exclusivity/marketing deals without a strong enough first-party.

The revisionist history is interesting regarding first-party studios.

They had before Phil and Don restructuring

  1. Bungie
  2. FASA
  3. Aces Studio
  4. Turn 10
  5. Lion Head
  6. Wingnut
  7. Massive
  8. Hired Gun
  9. Carbonated games
  10. Essemble
  11. Rare
  12. Feel plus (for a time)
  13. Xbox Live Productions

Under Kinect Don they had
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Good Science Studio
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. MGS Family
  5. MGS Mobile Gaming
  6. Microsoft Studios LEAP
  7. Platform Next Studios
  8. Turn 10 Studios
  9. Twisted Pixel Games
  10. Xbox Live Productions
  11. Lionhead Studios
  12. MGS Soho
  13. Rare Ltd
  14. BigPark
  15. MGS Vancouver
  16. MGS Victoria
  17. Microsoft Flight Development Team

Under Don (who had left) and team leftovers of his team when Kinect died, the aftermath

  1. 343i
  2. Lion Head
  3. Rare
  4. np studios
  5. Twisted Pixel
  6. Launch Works
  7. Kids and Lifestyle
  8. Good Science
  9. Team Dakota
  10. Turn 10
  11. Lift London
  12. Soho Productions
  13. Microsoft Mobile Gaming
  14. Mojang
  15. Press Play
  16. Big Park
  17. Black Tusk

Under Phil control pre-promotion
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Decisive Games
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  5. Turn 10 Studios
  6. Lift London
  7. Rare
  8. Mojang
  9. The Coalition

Under Phil control after promotion Sept-2017
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  3. Turn 10 Studios
  4. Lift London
  5. Rare
  6. Mojang
  7. The Coalition

Under Phil control 2020 pre-zenimax
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Turn 10 Studios
  3. Rare
  4. Mojang
  5. The Coalition
  6. InXile
  7. Ninja Theory
  8. Obsidian
  9. Playground
  10. Undead labs
  11. Compulsion Games
  12. The Initiative
  13. Worlds Edge

To say Phil had a strong first party is laughable, he is making buy outs because he dismantled much of what he had, has no idea how to make use of what he still had, and didn't want to create studios from scratch, instead he (thanks to convincing the CEO) was able to get a greenlight to buy out studios that would need to be integrated into Xbox game Studios and be observed and dealt with manually, with resources going into helping and planning for these new studios to adapt to Microsoft goals. Which has led to the issue Xbox Series has been facing since launch.

Phil dismantled what MS had instead of changing focus, building on the studios that existed, moving teams over into new branded studios, or even creating new ones from existing ones, instead he came in and reduced Microsoft Game Studios into let's be honest, 4 studios because he didn't care about lift London, Mojang was a separate entity, and he killed the Casual studio and laid off the staff, he then proceeded to go for the buyout strategy because in his mind the studios were already prepared and ready to go on purchase, which wasn't the case.

if he did both creating new studios, or rebranding them with the buyouts, then things would be different. but he damaged the first party game studios as he gained more control destroying, laying off, and firing a bunch of staff from all those pre/post Don Team studios without thinking about maybe keeping staff to form a new studio, rebranding some to avoid Kinect attachment, or moving some of the staff to stronger studios so output would be better, no he went it, blew up everything for a few years, then decided to try and make up for it buy buying studios thinking it would automatically save him work and trouble and it didn't because he miscalculated.

All that just to end up pre-Zenimax with the same amount of studios Xbox had pre-don restructuring, but with less output, less quality, less communication, and less turmoil internally.

Now post Zenimax, Microsoft has more studios than ever, but all the same problems as 2020. With 3 delays in one years all during a crucial selling period, a studio who showed a game without knowing what the game is, a bunch of CG trailers, studios that have been quiet for years, and Matt Booty is going around saying things are fine, what he saw was exciting, and we still don't get screenshots

For all we know Phil has 8 Crackdown 3's in development that won't be ready until 2028, that's why he need to change things around in 2023, because he's been lucky the competition has shot themselves in the foot so many times.
 

NickFire

Member
Under his watch the hardware has been good, subscription became a real thing in gaming, and cross play became a real thing in gaming (which MS seemed more interested in compared to Sony IMO). MS also had good software for its hardware. So the guy deserves a lot of credit.

But on the flip side, the guy spent the better part of a 100 billion buying stuff up in the past couple years alone, yet the first party software pipeline is still incredibly lacking IMO. With the resources he has had available to him, I do not see the type of software success that I would have expected if I were writing the checks.
 
The revisionist history is interesting regarding first-party studios.

They had before Phil and Don restructuring

  1. Bungie
  2. FASA
  3. Aces Studio
  4. Turn 10
  5. Lion Head
  6. Wingnut
  7. Massive
  8. Hired Gun
  9. Carbonated games
  10. Essemble
  11. Rare
  12. Feel plus (for a time)
  13. Xbox Live Productions

Under Kinect Don they had
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Good Science Studio
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. MGS Family
  5. MGS Mobile Gaming
  6. Microsoft Studios LEAP
  7. Platform Next Studios
  8. Turn 10 Studios
  9. Twisted Pixel Games
  10. Xbox Live Productions
  11. Lionhead Studios
  12. MGS Soho
  13. Rare Ltd
  14. BigPark
  15. MGS Vancouver
  16. MGS Victoria
  17. Microsoft Flight Development Team

Under Don (who had left) and team leftovers of his team when Kinect died, the aftermath

  1. 343i
  2. Lion Head
  3. Rare
  4. np studios
  5. Twisted Pixel
  6. Launch Works
  7. Kids and Lifestyle
  8. Good Science
  9. Team Dakota
  10. Turn 10
  11. Lift London
  12. Soho Productions
  13. Microsoft Mobile Gaming
  14. Mojang
  15. Press Play
  16. Big Park
  17. Black Tusk

Under Phil control pre-promotion
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Decisive Games
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  5. Turn 10 Studios
  6. Lift London
  7. Rare
  8. Mojang
  9. The Coalition

Under Phil control after promotion Sept-2017
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  3. Turn 10 Studios
  4. Lift London
  5. Rare
  6. Mojang
  7. The Coalition

Under Phil control 2020 pre-zenimax
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Turn 10 Studios
  3. Rare
  4. Mojang
  5. The Coalition
  6. InXile
  7. Ninja Theory
  8. Obsidian
  9. Playground
  10. Undead labs
  11. Compulsion Games
  12. The Initiative
  13. Worlds Edge

To say Phil had a strong first party is laughable, he is making buy outs because he dismantled much of what he had, has no idea how to make use of what he still had, and didn't want to create studios from scratch, instead he (thanks to convincing the CEO) was able to get a greenlight to buy out studios that would need to be integrated into Xbox game Studios and be observed and dealt with manually, with resources going into helping and planning for these new studios to adapt to Microsoft goals. Which has led to the issue Xbox Series has been facing since launch.

Phil dismantled what MS had instead of changing focus, building on the studios that existed, moving teams over into new branded studios, or even creating new ones from existing ones, instead he came in and reduced Microsoft Game Studios into let's be honest, 4 studios because he didn't care about lift London, Mojang was a separate entity, and he killed the Casual studio and laid off the staff, he then proceeded to go for the buyout strategy because in his mind the studios were already prepared and ready to go on purchase, which wasn't the case.

if he did both creating new studios, or rebranding them with the buyouts, then things would be different. but he damaged the first party game studios as he gained more control destroying, laying off, and firing a bunch of staff from all those pre/post Don Team studios without thinking about maybe keeping staff to form a new studio, rebranding some to avoid Kinect attachment, or moving some of the staff to stronger studios so output would be better, no he went it, blew up everything for a few years, then decided to try and make up for it buy buying studios thinking it would automatically save him work and trouble and it didn't because he miscalculated.

All that just to end up pre-Zenimax with the same amount of studios Xbox had pre-don restructuring, but with less output, less quality, less communication, and less turmoil internally.

Now post Zenimax, Microsoft has more studios than ever, but all the same problems as 2020. With 3 delays in one years all during a crucial selling period, a studio who showed a game without knowing what the game is, a bunch of CG trailers, studios that have been quiet for years, and Matt Booty is going around saying things are fine, what he saw was exciting, and we still don't get screenshots

For all we know Phil has 8 Crackdown 3's in development that won't be ready until 2028, that's why he need to change things around in 2023, because he's been lucky the competition has shot themselves in the foot so many times.
Do you have anything to substantiate most of your claims made in the last six paragraphs?
 
Under his watch the hardware has been good, subscription became a real thing in gaming, and cross play became a real thing in gaming (which MS seemed more interested in compared to Sony IMO). MS also had good software for its hardware. So the guy deserves a lot of credit.

But on the flip side, the guy spent the better part of a 100 billion buying stuff up in the past couple years alone, yet the first party software pipeline is still incredibly lacking IMO. With the resources he has had available to him, I do not see the type of software success that I would have expected if I were writing the checks.
Agreed. So far Phil has done an amazing job of putting Xbox back on the map and into relevancy with gamers again, but with this many studios and dollars spent, 2023 and on needs to be amazing in terms of software releases. 2023 to me will be the make it or break it year for Xbox, IMO.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
The revisionist history is interesting regarding first-party studios.

They had before Phil and Don restructuring

  1. Bungie
  2. FASA
  3. Aces Studio
  4. Turn 10
  5. Lion Head
  6. Wingnut
  7. Massive
  8. Hired Gun
  9. Carbonated games
  10. Essemble
  11. Rare
  12. Feel plus (for a time)
  13. Xbox Live Productions

Under Kinect Don they had
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Good Science Studio
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. MGS Family
  5. MGS Mobile Gaming
  6. Microsoft Studios LEAP
  7. Platform Next Studios
  8. Turn 10 Studios
  9. Twisted Pixel Games
  10. Xbox Live Productions
  11. Lionhead Studios
  12. MGS Soho
  13. Rare Ltd
  14. BigPark
  15. MGS Vancouver
  16. MGS Victoria
  17. Microsoft Flight Development Team

Under Don (who had left) and team leftovers of his team when Kinect died, the aftermath

  1. 343i
  2. Lion Head
  3. Rare
  4. np studios
  5. Twisted Pixel
  6. Launch Works
  7. Kids and Lifestyle
  8. Good Science
  9. Team Dakota
  10. Turn 10
  11. Lift London
  12. Soho Productions
  13. Microsoft Mobile Gaming
  14. Mojang
  15. Press Play
  16. Big Park
  17. Black Tusk

Under Phil control pre-promotion
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Decisive Games
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  5. Turn 10 Studios
  6. Lift London
  7. Rare
  8. Mojang
  9. The Coalition

Under Phil control after promotion Sept-2017
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  3. Turn 10 Studios
  4. Lift London
  5. Rare
  6. Mojang
  7. The Coalition

Under Phil control 2020 pre-zenimax
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Turn 10 Studios
  3. Rare
  4. Mojang
  5. The Coalition
  6. InXile
  7. Ninja Theory
  8. Obsidian
  9. Playground
  10. Undead labs
  11. Compulsion Games
  12. The Initiative
  13. Worlds Edge

To say Phil had a strong first party is laughable, he is making buy outs because he dismantled much of what he had, has no idea how to make use of what he still had, and didn't want to create studios from scratch, instead he (thanks to convincing the CEO) was able to get a greenlight to buy out studios that would need to be integrated into Xbox game Studios and be observed and dealt with manually, with resources going into helping and planning for these new studios to adapt to Microsoft goals. Which has led to the issue Xbox Series has been facing since launch.

Phil dismantled what MS had instead of changing focus, building on the studios that existed, moving teams over into new branded studios, or even creating new ones from existing ones, instead he came in and reduced Microsoft Game Studios into let's be honest, 4 studios because he didn't care about lift London, Mojang was a separate entity, and he killed the Casual studio and laid off the staff, he then proceeded to go for the buyout strategy because in his mind the studios were already prepared and ready to go on purchase, which wasn't the case.

if he did both creating new studios, or rebranding them with the buyouts, then things would be different. but he damaged the first party game studios as he gained more control destroying, laying off, and firing a bunch of staff from all those pre/post Don Team studios without thinking about maybe keeping staff to form a new studio, rebranding some to avoid Kinect attachment, or moving some of the staff to stronger studios so output would be better, no he went it, blew up everything for a few years, then decided to try and make up for it buy buying studios thinking it would automatically save him work and trouble and it didn't because he miscalculated.

All that just to end up pre-Zenimax with the same amount of studios Xbox had pre-don restructuring, but with less output, less quality, less communication, and less turmoil internally.

Now post Zenimax, Microsoft has more studios than ever, but all the same problems as 2020. With 3 delays in one years all during a crucial selling period, a studio who showed a game without knowing what the game is, a bunch of CG trailers, studios that have been quiet for years, and Matt Booty is going around saying things are fine, what he saw was exciting, and we still don't get screenshots

For all we know Phil has 8 Crackdown 3's in development that won't be ready until 2028, that's why he need to change things around in 2023, because he's been lucky the competition has shot themselves in the foot so many times.

I was talking about output. For big titles MS had what they've always had Gears, Forza, and Halo. Fable and Perfect Dark being the only big additions to that in-house, maybe you could say Kameo too. Gears was outsourced as was Titan Fall and the JRPGs. I'm sure there were a lot of other titles they released, but I was just talking about the blockbuster output. I feel like MS has the most capability they have ever had by a country mile, GP should be all set.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Do you have anything to substantiate most of your claims made in the last six paragraphs?

So you're just going to ignore those studio lists that are easy to look up, ok then.

I was talking about output.

You need studios for output.

Fable and Perfect Dark being the only big additions to that in-house, maybe you could say Kameo too.

If you don't know anything about the 360 era, and won't do simple research on it just say so instead of pretending Perfect Dark and kameo were the only new output.
 
So you're just going to ignore those studio lists that are easy to look up, ok then.
You understand that when you make a claim the onus to substantiate those claims, when called out, is on you... right?

You say Phil dismantled a bunch of studios but I'm curious, specifically what studios did he dismantle according to you and what negative effects came about because of it? And with that, how are you even sure that many of those early studio closures are because of him?

Even pre-Bethesda the portfolio of 1st party Xbox devs were the strongest they've been since the 360 days, far stronger now with Bethesda, and will be massively stronger once the ActiBlizz deal goes through.

I don't know man but it feels like you have an axe to grind and are blowing the negative of Phil Spencer's tenure entirely out of proportion and even being liberal with the truth to make your points.
 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
At least he is doing better than everyone else before.

Now and then I'm resubscribing to GP when its available for 1€ again. But there is not much I want to play.
There's still a big gap in big games that keeps me from fully engaging with the Xbox platform.
Not even close. The Xbox from 2002 - 2010 completely blows away anything Spencer has done.

I can't believe that this actually has to be explained.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
You understand that when you make a claim the onus to substantiate those claims, when called out, is on you... right?

You say Phil dismantled a bunch of studios but I'm curious, specifically what studios did he dismantle according to you and what negative effects came about because of it?

You aren't asking any real questions, you are being disingenuous while dismissing the list of studios I gave the years for, and if you wanted to, you can easily see when those studios were under Microsoft yourself to double check the lists. Instead of doing that you just want to be a contrarian and not really being honest.

Even pre-Bethesda the portfolio of 1st party Xbox devs were the strongest they've been since the 360 days,

This is a real example of an unsubstantiated claim. Please list these games from these strong studios that released between 2017-2020 before the Bethesda buyout, I'll even give you an extra year with 2016 too, because Dons influence was gone at that point and Phil was already effectively in charge. Strongest implies they produced something to show for it, so since you are saying they are comparable to the 360 days this should be easy for you.

I don't know man but it feels like you have an axe to grind and are blowing the negative of Phil Spencer's tenure entirely out of proportion and even being liberal with the truth to make your points.

It's funny because this seems to be what you're doing now.

Not even close. The Xbox from 2002 - 2010 completely blows away anything Spencer has done.

I can't believe that this actually has to be explained.

I'm waiting for people to say Xbox One was better than the 360 next, you know it's coming.
 
Last edited:
You aren't asking any real questions, you are being disingenuous while dismissing the list of studios I gave the years for, and if you wanted to, you can easily see when those studios were under Microsoft yourself to double check the lists. Instead of doing that you just want to be a contrarian and not really being honest.



This is a real example of an unsubstantiated claim. Please list these games from these strong studios that released between 2017-2020 before the Bethesda buyout, I'll even give you an extra year with 2016 too, because Dons influence was gone at that point and Phil was already effectively in charge. Strongest implies they produced something to show for it, so since you are saying they are comparable to the 360 days this should be easy for you.



It's funny because this seems to be what you're doing now.
So I asked you to substantiate your claims and then you basically just accuse me of what I accused you of, and told me to "do my own research" more or less. Yeah I'm gonna tap out bro. I come here for real conversation not double speak. If you aren't willing elaborate on the claims you made and just default back to "but I made a list with no specifics whatsoever" thats on you and you're moved to ignore so I don't waste my time attempting to engage you in earnest discussion about video games on a legitimate video game discussion forum.
 
I said best console 'overall'. Do you own a PS5? I own both, I can subjectively say the better console 'overall' as far as accessibility and features is the Series X. You are saying it's not the best based on one single issue that with a reliable internet connection, most people don't experience. I also agreed and said their major problem was exclusives as I was responding to another GAFer, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to mention it in your response as another reason why the console is apparently not good. That's not really a much of a response.

And I'm actually a Sony fan by the way, Xbox is secondary to me.
I'm not convinced the Series X is more powerful, though it has proven to have better VRR, back compat, and quick resume is an awesome feature. I have both consoles too. There are a few 3rd parties that have an edge over ps5 such as: lego skywalker, hitman 3, doom eternal but except for the Lego Star wars the resolution differences are minor. With how much better some ps5 exclusives are over anything on Series X I feel like whatever power differences are balanced out. I bought Far Cry 6 on Series X because people were saying online it was better looking than ps5 version but when I got it I realized it doesn't look better at all. So I wasted $30 on that after already buying it on ps5.

Forza Horizon 5 and Flight Sim are the only games at the level of ps5 exclusives visuals but sadly with Horizon those visuals are only available in the 30 fps fidelity mode. Flight Sim is just a tech demo for me. Gears 5 is a nice upgrade. Wish there were more significant upgrades on Series X like Gears 5. They clearly put time and effort into that. The Series X upgrades have been woeful actually. Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 got these native versions yet they downgraded Fh4 so badly it makes me not want to play it. They took out ambient occlusion all together wtf? Aside from those 2 games they did a patch for State of Decay 2 ..yay. Halo Infinite should've been their one "next gen" game and they totally fucked that up.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The revisionist history is interesting regarding first-party studios.

They had before Phil and Don restructuring

  1. Bungie
  2. FASA
  3. Aces Studio
  4. Turn 10
  5. Lion Head
  6. Wingnut
  7. Massive
  8. Hired Gun
  9. Carbonated games
  10. Essemble
  11. Rare
  12. Feel plus (for a time)
  13. Xbox Live Productions

Under Kinect Don they had
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Good Science Studio
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. MGS Family
  5. MGS Mobile Gaming
  6. Microsoft Studios LEAP
  7. Platform Next Studios
  8. Turn 10 Studios
  9. Twisted Pixel Games
  10. Xbox Live Productions
  11. Lionhead Studios
  12. MGS Soho
  13. Rare Ltd
  14. BigPark
  15. MGS Vancouver
  16. MGS Victoria
  17. Microsoft Flight Development Team

Under Don (who had left) and team leftovers of his team when Kinect died, the aftermath

  1. 343i
  2. Lion Head
  3. Rare
  4. np studios
  5. Twisted Pixel
  6. Launch Works
  7. Kids and Lifestyle
  8. Good Science
  9. Team Dakota
  10. Turn 10
  11. Lift London
  12. Soho Productions
  13. Microsoft Mobile Gaming
  14. Mojang
  15. Press Play
  16. Big Park
  17. Black Tusk

Under Phil control pre-promotion
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Decisive Games
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  5. Turn 10 Studios
  6. Lift London
  7. Rare
  8. Mojang
  9. The Coalition

Under Phil control after promotion Sept-2017
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  3. Turn 10 Studios
  4. Lift London
  5. Rare
  6. Mojang
  7. The Coalition

Under Phil control 2020 pre-zenimax
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Turn 10 Studios
  3. Rare
  4. Mojang
  5. The Coalition
  6. InXile
  7. Ninja Theory
  8. Obsidian
  9. Playground
  10. Undead labs
  11. Compulsion Games
  12. The Initiative
  13. Worlds Edge

To say Phil had a strong first party is laughable, he is making buy outs because he dismantled much of what he had, has no idea how to make use of what he still had, and didn't want to create studios from scratch, instead he (thanks to convincing the CEO) was able to get a greenlight to buy out studios that would need to be integrated into Xbox game Studios and be observed and dealt with manually, with resources going into helping and planning for these new studios to adapt to Microsoft goals. Which has led to the issue Xbox Series has been facing since launch.

Phil dismantled what MS had instead of changing focus, building on the studios that existed, moving teams over into new branded studios, or even creating new ones from existing ones, instead he came in and reduced Microsoft Game Studios into let's be honest, 4 studios because he didn't care about lift London, Mojang was a separate entity, and he killed the Casual studio and laid off the staff, he then proceeded to go for the buyout strategy because in his mind the studios were already prepared and ready to go on purchase, which wasn't the case.

if he did both creating new studios, or rebranding them with the buyouts, then things would be different. but he damaged the first party game studios as he gained more control destroying, laying off, and firing a bunch of staff from all those pre/post Don Team studios without thinking about maybe keeping staff to form a new studio, rebranding some to avoid Kinect attachment, or moving some of the staff to stronger studios so output would be better, no he went it, blew up everything for a few years, then decided to try and make up for it buy buying studios thinking it would automatically save him work and trouble and it didn't because he miscalculated.

All that just to end up pre-Zenimax with the same amount of studios Xbox had pre-don restructuring, but with less output, less quality, less communication, and less turmoil internally.

Now post Zenimax, Microsoft has more studios than ever, but all the same problems as 2020. With 3 delays in one years all during a crucial selling period, a studio who showed a game without knowing what the game is, a bunch of CG trailers, studios that have been quiet for years, and Matt Booty is going around saying things are fine, what he saw was exciting, and we still don't get screenshots

For all we know Phil has 8 Crackdown 3's in development that won't be ready until 2028, that's why he need to change things around in 2023, because he's been lucky the competition has shot themselves in the foot so many times.
This is the most accurate description I have seen. Xbox has been a complete and utter joke in the first party department since 2010 and it time that all these ballwashers held them accountable. Sony has dominated in first party while MS has faltered. Ms needs to find the team than ran Xbox from 2002 - 2010. It may be time to bring back Shane Kim and J. Allard.

I hear all this "games are coming" but they'll get delayed.

AT this point I'm sorry to say that MS is more likely to destroy the studios they have acquired than give them direction. I have yet to see anything from MS leadership to lead me to believe otherwise.

MS should just dump a pile of money on Jack Tretton's doorway.
 

Kagey K

Member
He's done well, the future for Xbox has never been brighter and there's definitely more goodwill and mindshare towards Xbox then there has been in a long time.

If Phil lives up to the potential they are laying out, Xbox is going to be strong going forward.

You can tell by the pushback from the PS community, that they can sense its coming too. Though they will never admit it.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
You aren't asking any real questions, you are being disingenuous while dismissing the list of studios I gave the years for, and if you wanted to, you can easily see when those studios were under Microsoft yourself to double check the lists. Instead of doing that you just want to be a contrarian and not really being honest.



This is a real example of an unsubstantiated claim. Please list these games from these strong studios that released between 2017-2020 before the Bethesda buyout, I'll even give you an extra year with 2016 too, because Dons influence was gone at that point and Phil was already effectively in charge. Strongest implies they produced something to show for it, so since you are saying they are comparable to the 360 days this should be easy for you.



It's funny because this seems to be what you're doing now.



I'm waiting for people to say Xbox One was better than the 360 next, you know it's coming.
2006 - 2010 was some of the best years for MS. Then the Kinect came along and it all went downhill.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
So I asked you to substantiate your claims and then you basically just accuse me of what I accused you of,

You didn't come here for conversation, you never even told me what you wanted me to elaborate on, you came in dismissing the whole post immediately with a pointless bad faith remark, and then tried to act like you're being reasonable asking innocent questions, when in reality you are just being dishonest and clearly had ill intentions from the start. Then ended up doing exactly what you falsely accused me of.

if you actually wanted to have a discussion, you wouldn't start with "your whole post is unsubstantiated proof" instead of actually asking questions, you tapping out is just you knowing you were called out and are running for the exit.

Especially after I called you out for your actual nonsensical claim that Xbox had a strong first party before bethesda under Phil, still waiting on those games.
 
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Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
2006 - 2010 was some of the best years for MS. Then the Kinect came along and it all went downhill.

That's pretty much what happened, Don added new studios, but they were all basically shovelware, however they could be converted, but Phil destroyed them instead, and what wasn't Kinect related he also got rid of.

I'm not convinced the Series X is more powerful,

Wait for more current gen focused games to come out first.
 

Lasha

Member
Choices in the poll my dude. It would be better with these:
•Excellent
•Very Good
•Good
•Satisfactory
•Poor

Four of those options are just different degrees of saying "He is doing well". The added granularity doesn't add much to the conversation.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
So you're just going to ignore those studio lists that are easy to look up, ok then.



You need studios for output.



If you don't know anything about the 360 era, and won't do simple research on it just say so instead of pretending Perfect Dark and kameo were the only new output.

I guess it all just depends on what you consider a blockbuster title. I didn't include PGR because that was replaced by FH in a way. But, Viva Piñata had its following to. I won't consider lips or the kinect games as quality output.

I'm not going to do research to debate some tangent you've gone on in your latest thread. My opinion is all you'll get. 🤣
 
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To be honest, initially I though he was doing ok given all the circumstances of the Xbone but after seeing what he has (not) done with the blank check M$ gave him and the output he’s got so far I started doubting the guy.
 

peter42O

Member
I would say that while far from perfect, Phil Spencer has been doing a great job for the most part with the main part being able to convince Nadella to go all in with Xbox which he has considering the fact that they acquired Bethesda and ABK. Once they get their first party studios releasing exclusives on a consistent basis, Xbox will be amazing from there on out.
 

Justin9mm

Member
I'm not convinced the Series X is more powerful, though it has proven to have better VRR, back compat, and quick resume is an awesome feature. I have both consoles too. There are a few 3rd parties that have an edge over ps5 such as: lego skywalker, hitman 3, doom eternal but except for the Lego Star wars the resolution differences are minor. With how much better some ps5 exclusives are over anything on Series X I feel like whatever power differences are balanced out. I bought Far Cry 6 on Series X because people were saying online it was better looking than ps5 version but when I got it I realized it doesn't look better at all. So I wasted $30 on that after already buying it on ps5.

Forza Horizon 5 and Flight Sim are the only games at the level of ps5 exclusives visuals but sadly with Horizon those visuals are only available in the 30 fps fidelity mode. Flight Sim is just a tech demo for me. Gears 5 is a nice upgrade. Wish there were more significant upgrades on Series X like Gears 5. They clearly put time and effort into that. The Series X upgrades have been woeful actually. Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 got these native versions yet they downgraded Fh4 so badly it makes me not want to play it. They took out ambient occlusion all together wtf? Aside from those 2 games they did a patch for State of Decay 2 ..yay. Halo Infinite should've been their one "next gen" game and they totally fucked that up.
I guess what I was trying to say was the Series X with its features etc. is a better thought out console imo. But you are right, Xbox still has its issues as you mentioned and games are still a major problem for them. There should be more exclusives and third party titles that have an edge over PS5 given the extra power on paper.
 

LRKD

Member
Not too sure tbh, not sure what exactly I can blame him for when it comes to Xboxs various shortcomings, and what exactly are the things he's responsible for xbox having done well. But I will say overall Xbox has made a good recovery from the Xbox One Launch, but now they need to figure out how to get their studios to be able to release fun/good games, and at a consistent rate.

I think he really needs to reign in some of the studios for sure. But it really should be a case by case basis. You know a good preforming studio wants to try a completely new game/idea out let them, and if it doesn't sell... That sucks, but don't sack the whole studio over it. If one studio wants to focus on some smaller budget games that should be fine. Not every studio has to be a AAA studio, and bring in million dollar sells with every release.

But when 343i puts out nothing but trash for 10 years in a row, its clearly time for some heads to roll, and put them on a tighter leash. Put them on harsher deadlines, and keep a closer eye on them until they start reaching higher standards on their own again. And then give them some freedom again. Put Mojang on a tighter leash too, find out why they are so inefficient at updating Minecraft, and fix it. Idk, something, its certainly ridiculous, and embarrassing that such a huge studio, does so little.
 

Zannrebel

Member
The revisionist history is interesting regarding first-party studios.

They had before Phil and Don restructuring

  1. Bungie
  2. FASA
  3. Aces Studio
  4. Turn 10
  5. Lion Head
  6. Wingnut
  7. Massive
  8. Hired Gun
  9. Carbonated games
  10. Essemble
  11. Rare
  12. Feel plus (for a time)
  13. Xbox Live Productions

Under Kinect Don they had
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Good Science Studio
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. MGS Family
  5. MGS Mobile Gaming
  6. Microsoft Studios LEAP
  7. Platform Next Studios
  8. Turn 10 Studios
  9. Twisted Pixel Games
  10. Xbox Live Productions
  11. Lionhead Studios
  12. MGS Soho
  13. Rare Ltd
  14. BigPark
  15. MGS Vancouver
  16. MGS Victoria
  17. Microsoft Flight Development Team

Under Don (who had left) and team leftovers of his team when Kinect died, the aftermath

  1. 343i
  2. Lion Head
  3. Rare
  4. np studios
  5. Twisted Pixel
  6. Launch Works
  7. Kids and Lifestyle
  8. Good Science
  9. Team Dakota
  10. Turn 10
  11. Lift London
  12. Soho Productions
  13. Microsoft Mobile Gaming
  14. Mojang
  15. Press Play
  16. Big Park
  17. Black Tusk

Under Phil control pre-promotion
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Decisive Games
  3. Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment
  4. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  5. Turn 10 Studios
  6. Lift London
  7. Rare
  8. Mojang
  9. The Coalition

Under Phil control after promotion Sept-2017
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Microsoft Casual Games Team
  3. Turn 10 Studios
  4. Lift London
  5. Rare
  6. Mojang
  7. The Coalition

Under Phil control 2020 pre-zenimax
  1. 343 Industries
  2. Turn 10 Studios
  3. Rare
  4. Mojang
  5. The Coalition
  6. InXile
  7. Ninja Theory
  8. Obsidian
  9. Playground
  10. Undead labs
  11. Compulsion Games
  12. The Initiative
  13. Worlds Edge

To say Phil had a strong first party is laughable, he is making buy outs because he dismantled much of what he had, has no idea how to make use of what he still had, and didn't want to create studios from scratch, instead he (thanks to convincing the CEO) was able to get a greenlight to buy out studios that would need to be integrated into Xbox game Studios and be observed and dealt with manually, with resources going into helping and planning for these new studios to adapt to Microsoft goals. Which has led to the issue Xbox Series has been facing since launch.

Phil dismantled what MS had instead of changing focus, building on the studios that existed, moving teams over into new branded studios, or even creating new ones from existing ones, instead he came in and reduced Microsoft Game Studios into let's be honest, 4 studios because he didn't care about lift London, Mojang was a separate entity, and he killed the Casual studio and laid off the staff, he then proceeded to go for the buyout strategy because in his mind the studios were already prepared and ready to go on purchase, which wasn't the case.

if he did both creating new studios, or rebranding them with the buyouts, then things would be different. but he damaged the first party game studios as he gained more control destroying, laying off, and firing a bunch of staff from all those pre/post Don Team studios without thinking about maybe keeping staff to form a new studio, rebranding some to avoid Kinect attachment, or moving some of the staff to stronger studios so output would be better, no he went it, blew up everything for a few years, then decided to try and make up for it buy buying studios thinking it would automatically save him work and trouble and it didn't because he miscalculated.

All that just to end up pre-Zenimax with the same amount of studios Xbox had pre-don restructuring, but with less output, less quality, less communication, and less turmoil internally.

Now post Zenimax, Microsoft has more studios than ever, but all the same problems as 2020. With 3 delays in one years all during a crucial selling period, a studio who showed a game without knowing what the game is, a bunch of CG trailers, studios that have been quiet for years, and Matt Booty is going around saying things are fine, what he saw was exciting, and we still don't get screenshots

For all we know Phil has 8 Crackdown 3's in development that won't be ready until 2028, that's why he need to change things around in 2023, because he's been lucky the competition has shot themselves in the foot so many times.
This list is disuingenous.

1. Bungie was neverf first party owned, it was an insomniac relationship.
2. 6-7 of the studios under don during kinect never released a game. Some literally 1 game before closing down.
3. 5 studios either were dismantled and absored after leaving tvtvtv behind because they weren't gaming related.
When phil took over in 2014 he had 9 studios under him, closed 3 up till 2017.
4. You left out Double Fine and Xbox Globle Publishing in pre-Zenimax section. Making it more than what they had pre reconstruction.
5. When half of these studios were made to release kinect garbage under don, and some still failing to do that, no shit 360 felt like, forza gears halo in later years. Phils done an fantastic better job in comparison
 

Zannrebel

Member
This is the most accurate description I have seen. Xbox has been a complete and utter joke in the first party department since 2010 and it time that all these ballwashers held them accountable. Sony has dominated in first party while MS has faltered. Ms needs to find the team than ran Xbox from 2002 - 2010. It may be time to bring back Shane Kim and J. Allard.

I hear all this "games are coming" but they'll get delayed.

AT this point I'm sorry to say that MS is more likely to destroy the studios they have acquired than give them direction. I have yet to see anything from MS leadership to lead me to believe otherwise.

MS should just dump a pile of money on Jack Tretton's doorway.
After 2020 and 2021 you should be ashamed to say this.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
I guess it all just depends on what you consider a blockbuster title. I didn't include PGR because that was replaced by FH in a way. But, Viva Piñata had its following to. I won't consider lips or the kinect games as quality output.

I feel like you're missing quote a few games there but oh well.

good recovery from the Xbox One Launch,

People need to get this out of there ahead, the Xbox One launch wasn't the problem, people just keep repeating it after hearing other people repeat it, Xbox one launch was huge, it was better than the 360's, and there were threads/articles like these https://www.neogaf.com/threads/playstation-4-winning-but-it-has-no-games.786312/

https://wccftech.com/sony-defends-reports-ps4-lacks-exclusive-triple-titles-holiday/

Most like you are thinking of before launch where most of the issues had been reversed.

You know a good preforming studio wants to try a completely new game/idea out let them, and if it doesn't sell... That sucks, but don't sack the whole studio over it.

Problem is that a new game could cost a lot of money and resources and it failing could make the studio unsustainable. Look at Fable Legend for an example of tons of money down the drain.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
This list is disuingenous.

1. Bungie was neverf first party owned, it was an insomniac relationship.

? https://news.microsoft.com/2000/06/19/microsoft-to-acquire-bungie-software/

2. 6-7 of the studios under don during kinect never released a game. Some literally 1 game before closing down.

What? yes they did, the only one that didn't where the ones that were newly formed, and they were either removed by Phil or renamed later, Blacktusk>The Coalition for example.

3. 5 studios either were dismantled and absored after leaving tvtvtv behind because they weren't gaming related.

What?

4. You left out Double Fine and Xbox Globle Publishing in pre-Zenimax section. Making it more than what they had pre reconstruction.

Xbox publishing wasn't a development studio.

5. When half of these studios were made to release kinect garbage under don, and some still failing to do that, no shit 360 felt like, forza gears halo in later years. Phils done an fantastic better job in comparison

Your opinion of Kinect isn't relevant to the fact those Kinect studios were making money and selling consoles and were still studios, but anyway Don swapped out many of those Kinect studios out before he left, or had started the process of doing so, which is why his second list has the same number of studios regardless.

After 2020 and 2021 you should be ashamed to say this.

He was talking about games, which we are still waiting for so what should he be ashamed about?
 

MacReady13

Member
At least he is doing better than everyone else before.

Now and then I'm resubscribing to GP when its available for 1€ again. But there is not much I want to play.
There's still a big gap in big games that keeps me from fully engaging with the Xbox platform.
Better than anyone else? The 360 for so many years was ahead of Playstation 3. Now for all the PS3's fault, the Playstation brand was very strong and the 360 took so much off Sony during that gen only just falling short in the end.

So really, has he been the best ever for Xbox? Where are all these quality 1st party games? He buys companies to get games on his eco system. He's introduced a fucking sub service effectively ruining gaming from here on out. I don't see what the guy has done right to be honest.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
After 2020 and 2021 you should be ashamed to say this.
Based on what.... all those delayed games? The wonderful success of Halo Infinite? Oh...wait.

Anyone with a functioning brain can see what an dismal failure MS first party development. They think that just buying studios will magically lead to games. But they give those studios no direction. Quit being a ballwasher.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
I feel like you're missing quote a few games there but oh well

I'm sure they made a lot of games that I don't remember. But, I also think they are in position to make a lot more games going forward that won't be forgotten. They are stacked right now.

And, I think that GP is a brilliant move that will move a lot more Series systems than whatever units they could have sold extra last-gen by not focusing there. Seems like the leadership is a well oiled machine right now.
 
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ryzen1

Member
Better than anyone else? The 360 for so many years was ahead of Playstation 3. Now for all the PS3's fault, the Playstation brand was very strong and the 360 took so much off Sony during that gen only just falling short in the end.

So really, has he been the best ever for Xbox? Where are all these quality 1st party games? He buys companies to get games on his eco system. He's introduced a fucking sub service effectively ruining gaming from here on out. I don't see what the guy has done right to be honest.
Well I don't think you can measure "success" by "beating sony".
As far as I remember the hardware sales are already ahead of 360 sales.
The number of users in the Xbox universe is certainly much higher than in 360 times due to GP.

Imho on the business side, he does better than everyone else.

But I agree with you, the fact there are barely any good 1st party games keeps me from using GP or buying a Xbox.
That's why I voted against him :D
 

kyussman

Member
He's made sure after the Xbone fuck up the tech is now where it needs to be(I don't see Xbox putting out un underpowered console again while he's in charge),he came up with GamePass(I'm not sure if that's good or bad,lol),he has been given access to the fabled Microsoft warchest,he must have done something to get that to happen so I guess he has to get credit for that,he has spent it on big publishers like Bethesda and Activision that may well make people who previuosly didn't game on Xbox start to do so(I intend to)......but that leads me to the elephant in the room,the games.....I'm waiting for the games that will make me stump up for an XSX......there are a lot in the works that interest me,I like the fact they have so much potential for big western rpg's now(I don't like Japanese ones)......I can't honestly blame him for this though,the games are all being made as we speak.....I just hope they deliver,because if things like Fable and Starfield turn out duds then....ooofff!
 
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