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[SolidSnakex]

I can't find the pictuers.

This is the PS3 from the Playstation Meeting

E3 PS3

 

[Doom_Bringer]

This is the PS3 from the Playstation Meeting

E3 PS3

yup I was right It doesn't look like a grill anymore

 

[Cold-Steel]

This is the PS3 from the Playstation Meeting

E3 PS3

Damn, that looks nice.

X360 and PS3 are a dream come true for digital convergence fans.

High-def, photos, music, movies, and games!

 

[element]

Element this was pretty subtle for you... I'm impressed.

I guess in my old age I've come to appreciate stuff differently. Not to mention working for an independent makes you lose any 'fanboy' type personality. You want everything to do well, well almost.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Well, there's a reason why Nintendo isn't releasing their specs. If they are going to fit all thier stuff in that tiny little case, and considering power and heat requirements of current technology... to be frank, the Revolution isn't going to be nearly as powerful as 360 or PS3. It's just that simple. There is no magic technology out there that overcomes the heat issue.

As for PS3, I fear for when we see it's power supply... that thing will be insane!

Whatever, you know nothing, go back back to playing 360.

Oh, hey don't forget to continue to provide impressions, atleast up until I have mine.

 

[BlueTsunami]

This is the PS3 from the Playstation Meeting

E3 PS3

I LOVE the black one. It makes it look extremley sleek. It does look different though, like they cut back on the inhale or something.

 

[cvxfreak]

I'm not so sure I like the PS3's design as much as the Rev's overall sleekness and the Xbox360's Apple-ish look.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

The answer, to Oxygen's question is most obviously "very carefully".

 

[element]

Microsoft is an American and they follow the "bigger is better" mindset. They don't give a shit how big things are *cough* PSU *cough*.

Sony and Nintendo are Japanese and they believe in "it's not the size that matters". They will make things small.

This whole 'Japanese people know how to make small things' needs to stop. Sony can manufacture a console with parts how ever they want because they own 99% of what goes into the system and the companies that make those pieces. A luxury that MS does not have, which is why they partner with companies like Samsung to provide the DVD drive.

Heat does not give two shits if your American or Japanese, and since NVIDIA is making the GPU for the PS3, and IBM designed the CPU for all three consoles I would expect the chipsets to perform in heat distribution somewhat similar. Due to the size of the systems, if any of them have an internal PSU I'll be SHOCKED, just because of the amount of watts needed to power what is inside. This are systems that can be powered by 20 watts anymore. Xbox 360 has a 254w PSU, and PS3 should be similar.

 

[dynamitejim]

Maybe using slim drives would help.



Does the X360 even have an intake fan? It looks like it just has two exhaust fans. Or maybe the pictures I've seen just didn't show it.

 

[element]

Maybe using slim drives would help.

Does the X360 even have an intake fan? It looks like it just has two exhaust fans. Or maybe the pictures I've seen just didn't show it.

I think it is a loop, with one fan pulling air in and one pushing it out. I could be mistaken though.

I was a little shocked that MS used a traditional 5 1/4 DVD drive size. They did go with SATA for the adapter type, which could lead to size reduction at a later date.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

And you think MS didn't hire or at least consult some of the best electronic-engineering minds in the world with Xbox 360?

different mind sets, MS wasn't trying to make a system that fit into as small a space as they wanted

they probably laid out their boards giving them alot of room and then built the shell around that

it's really not that hard a thing to comprehend

 

[Shin Johnpv]

This is the PS3 from the Playstation Meeting

man I really really really really hope we get one of those ultra-reflective silver ones here in the US I would snatch that up with such a quickness everything around it would burst into flames

 

[Gek54]

Im sure I missd the boat on this one but am I seeing three ethernet ports on the PS3?

 

[jiggle]

It makes me sad that they won't be going with the black or white ; ;

 

[Juice]

Fucking magic, and a fuckton of vents. I'm pretty sure Xbox360 doesn't have magic on its side, though.

I didn't know you could be funny! Bravo!

In all reality, the PS3 is still large enough for them to fit whatever they want in there. I haven't seen the two side by side, but I'm still under the impression that the 360 isn't much larger at all.

Revolution... damn. I think they'll fit all the tech in there by making it not powerful.

 

[Gek54]

It makes me sad that they won't be going with the black or white ; ;

Where the hell have I been? Are you serious? No black glossy PS3?

 

[elostyle]

Maybe using slim drives would help.



Does the X360 even have an intake fan? It looks like it just has two exhaust fans. Or maybe the pictures I've seen just didn't show it.

Good point. My laptop's dvd drive is about as thick as 1 dvd case. And it can even burn dvds. No idea why microsoft went with such a bulky one. No wonder the machine is so big.

 

[qirex]

Im sure I missd the boat on this one but am I seeing three ethernet ports on the PS3?

It was originally announced to also act as a router but they dropped that.

Also, last I heard they were still planning to do different colors.

 

[suaveric]

Good point. My laptop's dvd drive is about as thick as 1 dvd case. And it can even burn dvds. No idea why microsoft went with such a bulky one. No wonder the machine is so big.

Price would be my guess

 

[elostyle]

Price would be my guess

Right. Which brings me to that other thought I had. I don't actually think the Rev is going to be so much cheaper. Besides cheaper semiconductor parts, they'll have a more expansive drive, a certainly more expansive controller, extra sensor, built in wireless, flash memory and all in a smaller form factor. I wouldn't count on the Rev being <$250.

 

[Gek54]

It was originally announced to also act as a router but they dropped that.

Also, last I heard they were still planning to do different colors.

Good to know about colors. What would have been the idea of having a built in router? So the PS3 would have a direct connection a broadband modem? Is the PS3 still set to have built in WiFi?

 

[Defensor]

Is the PS3 still set to have built in WiFi?

Yes. You will be able to connect your PSP to your PS3 through WiFi as well.

 

[etiolate]

They'll do it because they're not a PC company putting a computer in a box. What kind of stupid thread is this? Console companies have been able to make small powerful consoles for years. Console design is NOT the same as PC design.

HOW DOES APPLE GET A COMPUTER IN THAT WEE WIDDLE BOX??!!

 

[Fafalada]

Heat does not give two shits if your American or Japanese, and since NVIDIA is making the GPU for the PS3, and IBM designed the CPU for all three consoles I would expect the chipsets to perform in heat distribution somewhat similar.

That's one heck of an assumption to make.
By last mention XeCPU dissipates close to 100Watts, where as current expectations for Revolution CPU are around around 20, possibly even less.

I'd be more worried about the revolution than anything

Dunno, Nintendo has always managed to minimize things well enough.

The PS3 struck me as being big at TGS (and they could still move the psu outside the unit if need be)

Well it's not really any bigger then 360 though - and if the components really got hotter...
That said, so long as the design is an empty box, they could always just scale the size up "transparently" :lol

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

This is the PS3 from the Playstation Meeting

E3 PS3

[/IMG]

if you look at the PS2 and PS3 laying down they look alike in the overall concept except ps3 looks futuristic

 

[teiresias]

It was originally announced to also act as a router but they dropped that.

Also, last I heard they were still planning to do different colors.

NO!

The PS3 was never announced to act as a router - it was announced to act as a switch, which it still does. The router stuff was brought up in an interview where Kuturagi was discussing the design process and how at one point they wanted to do a router but dropped it for cost reasons - the router was never an announced, official spec. At E3 it was announced only to act as a switch, and that hasn't changed.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Rick Moranis has the answer

 

[element]

they probably laid out their boards giving them alot of room and then built the shell around that

That has to be the stupidest thing I've read. You think that they didn't want to condense the board? You think they wanted it bigger? Come on now. The board layout was developed with help from ATI, IBM, and MS new silicon group in San Francisco. So I would expect them to know how to make it smaller. The board itself is far superior in layout compared to the Xbox mobo.

That's one heck of an assumption to make.

It was more directed at PS3 then Rev.

They'll do it because they're not a PC company putting a computer in a box. What kind of stupid thread is this? Console companies have been able to make small powerful consoles for years. Console design is NOT the same as PC design.

MS is a SOFTWARE company, and just as much of a console company as Sony or Nintendo. These consoles are....COMPUTERS!!!! They have a power supply, they have a CPU, they have RAM, they have a GPU, they have a bridge chipset, they have an operating system. Sounds like a computer to me. Do you think that Sony has some miracle cooling agent for PS3? We are talking physics here, not some stupid cultural issue (Japanese make small things, Americans like bigger things). If Sony has all this talent of making things small, why is the Vaio line just as large as HP or Dell machines? And all console makers make something small? I guess we will forget the NES and the Saturn.

Consoles are PCs only specialized and have the same technical issues as well, such as power consumption, size, and heat distribution. Just because it is a console doesn't mean it doesn't have to abide by these same rules.

My major point of this thread to see if anyone else thinks Sony and Nintendo can deliver, as well as be amazed if they can.

 

[DCharlie]

"This whole 'Japanese people know how to make small things' needs to stop."

*looks at PSX, looks at Bluray recorder*
Indeed, those things are fecking HUGE!

 

[quetz67]

Nintendo will use lower core frequencies and save a lot space used for coolling the 360. And they probably just use the room they have, no empty space. No concave/convex design which wastes more space. A small DVD drive is a given of course, dont think about the drive as a box, it is mostly a motor and a laser/lens.

 

[Jiggy]

If Sony has all this talent of making things small, why is the Vaio line just as large as HP or Dell machines?

To retain the standardized laptop keyboard size?

 

[cvxfreak]

I guess we will forget the NES and the Saturn.

But wasn't the Famicom small?

I've only seen one a few times, so I can't remember.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Damn, that looks nice.

PCs are a dream come true for digital convergence fans.

High-def, photos, music, movies, and games!

Fix'd!

Just kidding.

 

[etiolate]

If Sony has all this talent of making things small, why is the Vaio line just as large as HP or Dell machines? And all console makers make something small?

MS is a PC SOFTWARE COMPANY. I am not calling them Via Chips, I'm callng them on what they are use to. I included the Apple reference because Apple computers are built differently than PC computers. Apple intergrates hardware, everything is made to fit with everything else. This is what Nintendo and Sega has done for years, what Sony is doing. MS is use to the PC world, of upgradeability and multiple different hardware configurations. Sony makes PCs as big as other PCs, because PCs are that way. They are made to have space and availability to upgrade. Consoles are different.

PS: The NES was much smaller than computers of its day.

 

[Of All Trades]

They'll do it because they're not a PC company putting a computer in a box. What kind of stupid thread is this? Console companies have been able to make small powerful consoles for years. Console design is NOT the same as PC design.

HOW DOES APPLE GET A COMPUTER IN THAT WEE WIDDLE BOX??!!

Apple does it by charging 50% more than a PC equivilant. I'm endlessly baffled why the N-Hive thinks that "won't take a loss on hardware"-Nintendo has some magic dust that somehow gets around the sizeower:cost balancing act, especially when they're buying parts from the same people that MS/Sony are buying them from.

MS is a PC SOFTWARE COMPANY. I am not calling them Via Chips, I'm callng them on what they are use to. I included the Apple reference because Apple computers are built differently than PC computers. Apple intergrates hardware, everything is made to fit with everything else. This is what Nintendo and Sega has done for years, what Sony is doing. MS is use to the PC world, of upgradeability and multiple different hardware configurations. Sony makes PCs as big as other PCs, because PCs are that way. They are made to have space and availability to upgrade. Consoles are different.

MS is a PC software company that hired CONSOLE makers to work on their console. Or do you think that the three companies are just monolithic entities that don't hire people who are qualified for a task?

 

[element]

I included the Apple reference because Apple computers are built differently than PC computers. Apple intergrates hardware, everything is made to fit with everything else.

Apple can do things that MS can't dream of because they build the hardware and OS. MS would get sued if they did that. Apple accept the hardware manufactures, Apple accept the drivers, Apple accept the software. Apple has total control over everything because they are the only people making them. If Apple does a great job why is my G5 devkit from MS so freaking huge. It is just a 'normal' PC. Yet it is larger then my home computer.

Sony makes PCs as big as other PCs, because PCs are that way.

Go talk to Shuttle. They make full power PCs the size of a shoe box.

They are made to have space and availability to upgrade. Consoles are different.

An you think MS doesn't understand this? Nintendo and Sega both had upgradable consoles with the Saturn and N64.

To retain the standardized laptop keyboard size?

referring to desktops, not laptops.

PS: The NES was much smaller than computers of its day.

and far less complex and powerful.

HOW DOES APPLE GET A COMPUTER IN THAT WEE WIDDLE BOX??!!

How did MS get a more powerful processor then the fastest G5 into their tiny machine?

 

[shpankey]

:lol

 

[Azelover]

Don't forget that the Revolution has a Disk Drive add-on for DVD movies that is supposedly need quite a bit of free space.

So much to prevent piracy, but I don't think they would have gone to the lenghs of including DVD playback as a full on add-on acessory if they weren't secure that they could perform a miracle in terms of shrinking technology. I too think the parts of Revolution will be very expensive, even though not powerful, just because they're small.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Apple does it by charging 50% more than a PC equivilant. I'm endlessly baffled why the N-Hive thinks that "won't take a loss on hardware"-Nintendo has some magic dust that somehow gets around the sizeower:cost balancing act, especially when they're buying parts from the same people that MS/Sony are buying them from.

MS is a PC software company that hired CONSOLE makers to work on their console. Or do you think that the three companies are just monolithic entities that don't hire people who are qualified for a task?

Why is GameCube roughly 3-4x smaller than an Xbox, yet launched at the same time, for a much smaller/no loss on hardware? I'm not saying there is fairy dust, but something has to be going on there.

Don't forget that the Revolution has a Disk Drive add-on for DVD movies that is supposedly need quite a bit of free space.

So much to prevent piracy, but I don't think they would have gone to the lenghs of including DVD playback as a full on add-on acessory if they weren't secure that they could perform a miracle in terms of shrinking technology. I too think the parts of Revolution will be very expensive, even though not powerful, just because they're small.

It's actually supposed to be quite small apparently. From the IGN "Revolution" FAQ:

Q: Will Revolution be able to play DVD movies?

A: Yes. However, DVD-movie playback will not be available out of the box. Revolution owners must buy an additional dongle that inserts in front of the machine in order to watch Hollywood DVD movies on the platform.

For the record, I don't think Revolution is going to equal the power of Xbox 360 or PS3, but I think it might come close, and I think Nintendo et al. are going to pull some impressive things off with that tiny black/white box.

 

[Bebpo]

Ummm, isn't the PS3 larger than the X360? So if they could fit all that in the X360, I don't see why similar spec hardware couldn't fit in an even bigger case...

 

[element]

Why is GameCube roughly 3-4x smaller than an Xbox, yet launched at the same time, for a much smaller/no loss on hardware? I'm not saying there is fairy dust, but something has to be going on there.

Intel designed the mobo for Xbox, and majority of the parts were literally off the shelf.

 

[Xellotah]

Has anybody considered that the rev might eventually turn out to be bigger tha 3 DVD cases?

Its not as though nintendo havent changed the design of the console before launch.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Intel designed the mobo for Xbox, and majority of the parts were literally off the shelf.

I understood this when I posted it. The question is not why it is that big, but why did Microsoft decide to make it that big? The only advantage it garnered them was really having the most powerful box, which didn't seem to provide much of an advantage at all in the long run, at least in the business aspect. If Nintendo can go to a few different companies and say we want a small, powerful, and cheap box, why can't Microsoft? Admittedly, adding a HDD did up the cost on the manufacturing and was a nice feature.

Next gen might be a different beast entirely, but if Nintendo does it again, has a small box with fairly comparable power, at a cheap manufacturing cost... then there has to be something going on.

 

[element]

but why did Microsoft decide to make it that big?

didn't have control over the hardware, as in hardware IPs and design IPs. Which caused them to only do business with certain companies. Xbox was just a very quickly design machine. Elegance wasn't really a bullet point in the design process. Getting something out quickly and powerful was.

 

[Timbuktu]

I don't see the problem with PS3, since it isn't exactly small. With Rev though, it'll probably have the largest L2 cache of the three, not having to deal with media applications, fewer cores and lower clock-speed to get better single-threaded performance and lower power usage. Nintendo has always done quite well with hardware design, I do see why they can't produce a competitive machine with a relatively small size. I'm not sure if 360 is exactly an 'elegant' solution, MS wanted to get it out of the gates quickly and reduce manufacturing cost at the same time.

 

[Juice]

For the record, I don't think Revolution is going to equal the power of Xbox 360 or PS3, but I think it might come close, and I think Nintendo et al. are going to pull some impressive things off with that tiny black/white box.

First no HD and now no color!? Fuck me, N-fans am cry.

 

[quetz67]

I understood this when I posted it. The question is not why it is that big, but why did Microsoft decide to make it that big? The only advantage it garnered them was really having the most powerful box, which didn't seem to provide much of an advantage at all in the long run, at least in the business aspect. If Nintendo can go to a few different companies and say we want a small, powerful, and cheap box, why can't Microsoft? Admittedly, adding a HDD did up the cost on the manufacturing and was a nice feature.

Next gen might be a different beast entirely, but if Nintendo does it again, has a small box with fairly comparable power, at a cheap manufacturing cost... then there has to be something going on.

Maybe you didnt read my post. Nintendo is probably going for lower core frequencies. Thats means a lot less heat and less space needed for cooling. But it wont make much difference in power, especially with Nintendo being able to build more efficient architecture or just including faster RAM.

And if you buy a DVD drive off the shelf thats probably already a box close to the size of the revolution. Thats wasted space because all you need is a motor spinning the disc, the optics and some mechanics to get the disc in/out. The rest of the space in this box could be used if you really want your console small. The chips needed to read the DVD is then on the mainboard.

In the end it is a similiar question as if you would ask: How do they cram all the stuff I have in my desktop or tower PC into a notebook.

 

[Juice]

Maybe you didnt read my post. Nintendo is probably going for lower core frequencies. Thats means a lot less heat and less space needed for cooling. But it wont make much difference in power, especially with Nintendo being able to build more efficient architecture or just including faster RAM.

And if you buy a DVD drive off the shelf thats probably already a box close to the size of the revolution. Thats wasted space because all you need is a motor spinning the disc, the optics and some mechanics to get the disc in/out. The rest of the space in this box could be used if you really want your console small. The chips needed to read the DVD is then on the mainboard.

In the end it is a similiar question as if you would ask: How do they cram all the stuff I have in my desktop or tower PC into a notebook.

The real reason it won't make a difference is because rumor has it that it's L1 cache will be roughly the size of Texas.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Maybe you didnt read my post. Nintendo is probably going for lower core frequencies. Thats means a lot less heat and less space needed for cooling. But it wont make much difference in power, especially with Nintendo being able to build more efficient architecture or just including faster RAM.

And if you buy a DVD drive off the shelf thats probably already a box close to the size of the revolution. Thats wasted space because all you need is a motor spinning the disc, the optics and some mechanics to get the disc in/out. The rest of the space in this box could be used if you really want your console small. The chips needed to read the DVD is then on the mainboard.

In the end it is a similiar question as if you would ask: How do they cram all the stuff I have in my desktop or tower PC into a notebook.

Well, right. I think there are more efficient ways of going about things than Microsoft has, which may be a case in point when we look at Revolution in a year. We shall see.

As for the DVD thing, I half expect it just to be a SD card with some software on it, or the possibility of downloading software for it. It's definitely not a hardware add on deal, as the Revolution takes both regular sized DVDs and GCN discs. I don't think there is anything there that would require additional space, but I could be way off base.