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[PlayofSparta]

Great games, thinking of playing again. Any fans here?

 

[Hydroxy]

Have fond memories of playing these on DS. They don't make games like these anymore. The story was nice and the art and music was great too. The various game over scenarios were fun too. DS had a lot of such unique games and this is one of them. The dual touchscreen really added to the experience.

 

[SCB3]

I remember Hotel Dusk being a work of genuis when it came out, some of the puzzles were incredible, whether or not that holds up now we've had Danganronpa and the Nonary Games remains to be seen

 

[Deerock71]

I was just thinking about selling my physical copy of Last Window this weekend, in fact. Nice moody games.

 

[Killer8]

I recently refurbished my old DS Lite to play games like this again. I suspect it will hold up pretty well since it's a text based game and the art styled like the Take On Me music video was well done. I can't remember if there was a twist in the plot, it was 15 years ago when I last played it, so if there was one i'll get to experience it all over again. Never played the sequel but there's barely any games like this made any more, so maybe i'll finally check it out.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

I own both and both are must have.

 

[mrabott]

I love Hotel Dusk, great game.

 

[-Zelda-]

Never got to play either of them, which sucks.
I really liked Trace Memory though, which was great.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Own both. Had to import the second game. Solid games.

 

[Vandole]

Loved Hotel Dusk, but unfortunately I never got a copy of Last Window. I really liked Cing as a developer, and was very disappointed when they filed for bankruptcy. I always thought Nintendo should have bought them. Would have been a great niche studio for them.

 

[_Ex_]

These two represent the best adventure games ever made. The absolute apex of the genre.

 

[JC 1080P CRT]

This thread is a real throwback. I played Hotel Dusk back when it first came out, and loved it. I also imported Last Window, and enjoyed it too. Both games had good music, great graphics, clever writing and localization, interesting characters, and an intriguing plot.
Those two games and the Phoenix Wright/Ace Attorney games solidified the DS as my favorite non-PC system for adventure and visual novel games (3DS was a good successor, too).

Speaking of, even though I like the PW/AA games better overall, it does seem like most of the DS-based puzzles in the first and later games were an afterthought, and you wouldn't lose too much by converting them to normal controls.
Not true for Hotel Dusk/Last Window. The puzzles were well designed and immersive, making the system truly an experience you couldn't get elsewhere at the time. I never got to play 999 on DS, so I can't say whether Hotel Dusk/Last Window had the "best" puzzles.

I recently refurbished my old DS Lite to play games like this again. I suspect it will hold up pretty well since it's a text based game and the art styled like the Take On Me music video was well done. I can't remember if there was a twist in the plot, it was 15 years ago when I last played it, so if there was one i'll get to experience it all over again. Never played the sequel but there's barely any games like this made any more, so maybe i'll finally check it out.

You did the right thing by refurbishing your DS Lite. It's the perfect form factor for these two games. I've played the first one on both the OG DS and DS Lite, and the Lite feels way more comfortable, and the graphics look better on it IMO.

 

[RPS37]

Hi there, OP.

 

[Success]

Hotel Dusk required consistent use of a guide in order to know what to do next.

This alone is the reason why the game never got popular, unlike other visual novels like Phoenix Wright.

 

[JC 1080P CRT]

Hotel Dusk required consistent use of a guide in order to know what to do next.

This alone is the reason why the game never got popular, unlike other visual novels like Phoenix Wright.

Hard disagree. Beat both games without using a guide. IMO they're not even as difficult as some of the Sierra/LucasArts point-and-click adventure games.

Phoenix Wright/Ace Attorney also has its own flaws. For example:
* The inability to object/present evidence during any other statement than the exact one the game wants you to
* During investigation stages, having to completely exhaust dialogue trees and present evidence to every single character in order to unlock new locations or progress the game

That said, I still love the PW/AA games. I think the appeal comes from the game's art style, music, and humorous writing. HD/LW is more serious in tone, and while it does have great art and music (IMO), it doesn't feel as approachable as PW/AA. That's where I think the difference in success was.

 

[mcjmetroid]

Hotel dusk games were both excellent. I would say the last window was slightly better. I'm not sure why it never made it to Europe. The first game had commercials on TV and everything.

 

[Miles708]

I remember just one particular puzzle in Hotel Dusk that required the use of two styluses. That infuriated me because i had to check it ona guide and i would have NEVER guessed that.

Other than that, yeah masterpiece

 

[PayoLoko]

man i played so much hotel dusk when i was in the university... i was fascinated with the story telling and the music. Now that i think of it, i almost burn out my DS with these kind of games and BANGAI-O
never played the other game ¿is it worth it?

 

[b6a6es]

Great games, thinking of playing again. Any fans here?

I was just replaying this masterpiece

 

[Success]

Hard disagree. Beat both games without using a guide. IMO they're not even as difficult as some of the Sierra/LucasArts point-and-click adventure games.

Phoenix Wright/Ace Attorney also has its own flaws. For example:
* The inability to object/present evidence during any other statement than the exact one the game wants you to
* During investigation stages, having to completely exhaust dialogue trees and present evidence to every single character in order to unlock new locations or progress the game

That said, I still love the PW/AA games. I think the appeal comes from the game's art style, music, and humorous writing. HD/LW is more serious in tone, and while it does have great art and music (IMO), it doesn't feel as approachable as PW/AA. That's where I think the difference in success was.

You just proved me right.

Congratulations.

You can brute force progress in Phoenix Wright.

You cannot brute force your way through Hotel Dusk unless you have a guide or incredible luck.

 

[Bakkus]

I am. Shame the story will never be finished.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Own both. Had to import the second game. Solid games.

Same here, back then it took me a while to find a copy. Love both of them.

 

[JC 1080P CRT]

You just proved me right.

Congratulations.

You can brute force progress in Phoenix Wright.

You cannot brute force your way through Hotel Dusk unless you have a guide or incredible luck.

You could also... not brute force your way and instead solve the puzzles using knowledge and logic.
Remember, your original premise was this:

Hotel Dusk required consistent use of a guide in order to know what to do next.

This alone is the reason why the game never got popular, unlike other visual novels like Phoenix Wright.

The game never required use of a guide, let alone consistent use.

As for PW/AA games, several of them have cases that are incredibly difficult to brute force in an investigation stage, if you don't know what you're doing at all.
In some scenes, the object or dialogue you're looking for is not immediately obvious, and can easily be overlooked. To succeed in such instances would require the "incredible luck" you claim is a requirement in Hotel Dusk, if not the use of a guide.

Also, I reject the notion that PW/AA was popular solely because you could brute force your way through it, when I already brought up several more likely reasons: appealing art, cool characters, funny dialogue, intriguing story, amazing music, among many things.
One big reason I think you're overlooking is that the PW/AA series already had a following among import gamers, since the original Japanese releases on GBA in 2001, 2002, and 2004. The re-release of the games on DS, followed by the localizations starting in 2005, only helped expand that audience.

Hotel Dusk, while it did have a different art and gameplay style, was not an already established franchise by a well-known company like Capcom when it was originally released on DS.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Hotel Dusk was a great game. I liked it enough to import Last Window, but never got around to playing that one so it's still sealed on my shelf though. One day!

 

[Success]

You could also... not brute force your way and instead solve the puzzles using knowledge and logic.
Remember, your original premise was this:



The game never required use of a guide, let alone consistent use.

As for PW/AA games, several of them have cases that are incredibly difficult to brute force in an investigation stage, if you don't know what you're doing at all.
In some scenes, the object or dialogue you're looking for is not immediately obvious, and can easily be overlooked. To succeed in such instances would require the "incredible luck" you claim is a requirement in Hotel Dusk, if not the use of a guide.

Also, I reject the notion that PW/AA was popular solely because you could brute force your way through it, when I already brought up several more likely reasons: appealing art, cool characters, funny dialogue, intriguing story, amazing music, among many things.
One big reason I think you're overlooking is that the PW/AA series already had a following among import gamers, since the original Japanese releases on GBA in 2001, 2002, and 2004. The re-release of the games on DS, followed by the localizations starting in 2005, only helped expand that audience.

Hotel Dusk, while it did have a different art and gameplay style, was not an already established franchise by a well-known company like Capcom when it was originally released on DS.

I played Hotel Dusk on release and I was on the GFAQS message boards talking about the game with other people.

The big consensus was that although the art style was unique the game offered minimal sense of direction. You would never have a clear idea of where to go next or who to talk to.

While this may have made game more immersive to puzzle fanatics like those who like Myst and later the "Witness". The average gamer does not have the patience to decipher the deep logic of Hotel Dusk.

That is why Hotel Dusk is so beloved by such a small minority of people. Because only the hardcore of the hardcore point and click fans can derive pleasure from a game that requires a guide for non-fanatics.

I mean, just look at this thread.

Hardly any responses from people that are super hardcore fans.

 

[onnextflix5]

Loved the first game, great story and characters. Is the second one any good to bother finding a copy,

 

[Inanilmaz]

I mean, just look at this thread.

Hardly any responses from people that are super hardcore fans.

This game is so amazing it left me speechless, don't know what to say.

 

[JC 1080P CRT]

I played Hotel Dusk on release and I was on the GFAQS message boards talking about the game with other people.

The big consensus was that although the art style was unique the game offered minimal sense of direction. You would never have a clear idea of where to go next or who to talk to.

While this may have made game more immersive to puzzle fanatics like those who like Myst and later the "Witness". The average gamer does not have the patience to decipher the deep logic of Hotel Dusk.

That is why Hotel Dusk is so beloved by such a small minority of people. Because only the hardcore of the hardcore point and click fans can derive pleasure from a game that requires a guide for non-fanatics.

I mean, just look at this thread.

Hardly any responses from people that are super hardcore fans.

Ah, I remember the GameFAQs boards for both PW/AA and Hotel Dusk back in the day. I also lurked a site called Court Records, which focused on PW/AA and had minor chat on the forums about Hotel Dusk.
Now I can see more clearly where you got your perspective, even though I still don't agree with it.

Again, I think that the PW/AA franchise already existing, having a cult following since the GBA originals, and being by Capcom were some of the biggest factors in why PW/AA saw more success than Hotel Dusk.
Cing was a much, much smaller developer than Capcom, only having employees in the double-digit range. Their most well-known titles were the Another Code and Hotel Dusk games, and they filed for bankruptcy 2 months after Last Window was released in Japan (in 2010).
They had a much shorter lifespan (1999-2010) than Capcom, and a lot fewer franchises. All of those reasons combined is why I think Hotel Dusk/Last Window are less talked about compared to PW/AA.

I can concede that PW/AA may be more approachable to the average gamer, but I still don't think either series necessarily required guides or luck to get through.
In fact, some players and reviewers even though some of the puzzles and evidence-gathering scenes were too on-the-nose (the opposite problem).

I also don't think Hotel Dusk/Last Window only appeals to the most hardcore adventure game players. Overall, it's fine if we agree to disagree about the games' appeal.

 

[AlteredForms]

I'm familiar with these games and I believe I attempted to emulate them back in the day. There was a member here who had an avatar of the protagonist, I wonder what happened to him...

EDIT: RPS37 you're still here lol.

 

[Success]

Ah, I remember the GameFAQs boards for both PW/AA and Hotel Dusk back in the day. I also lurked a site called Court Records, which focused on PW/AA and had minor chat on the forums about Hotel Dusk.
Now I can see more clearly where you got your perspective, even though I still don't agree with it.

Again, I think that the PW/AA franchise already existing, having a cult following since the GBA originals, and being by Capcom were some of the biggest factors in why PW/AA saw more success than Hotel Dusk.
Cing was a much, much smaller developer than Capcom, only having employees in the double-digit range. Their most well-known titles were the Another Code and Hotel Dusk games, and they filed for bankruptcy 2 months after Last Window was released in Japan (in 2010).
They had a much shorter lifespan (1999-2010) than Capcom, and a lot fewer franchises. All of those reasons combined is why I think Hotel Dusk/Last Window are less talked about compared to PW/AA.

I can concede that PW/AA may be more approachable to the average gamer, but I still don't think either series necessarily required guides or luck to get through.
In fact, some players and reviewers even though some of the puzzles and evidence-gathering scenes were too on-the-nose (the opposite problem).

I also don't think Hotel Dusk/Last Window only appeals to the most hardcore adventure game players. Overall, it's fine if we agree to disagree about the games' appeal.

I also played Another Code and it suffered from similar problems to Hotel Dusk. It was too easy to get stuck and not know where to go.

I liked the unique uses of the DS for Another Code and Hotel Dusk but wish it were more approachable like the Ace Attorney series.

 

[20cent]

I was thinking about which NDS game to replay few days ago and they were in my top 3 with Time Hollow and Ghost Trick...

Yeah big fan of the gameplay and art style of this series
Still own a sealed copy of each (r4 times when I'd buy the games I played and liked).