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Girlfriend Reviews: Understanding Last of Us 2

Aug 26, 2018
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I played the game and
makes no sense why Abby couldnt stay slim Abby, or more Lara Croft fit if youd like. When I played that part and realized she became The Terminator only 3 years later and it was never explained why...wtf was the point of making her so big. It felt so stupid to play after playing her slim version
 

Keihart

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Games today are close to photo realistic. It was one thing to shoot a character in a game 20 years ago and watching the low res limbs flying off, compared to today with up close and personal cutting, stabbing and eye gouging. No thanks. I don't need to see that. I avoid shows with that crap and games as well. If I play a game and it comes up, I am not enjoying watching it and luckily it is over soon. This game, every video I have seen, it is up close photo realistic grotesque violence. That may be art to someone, but I will pass.

If you like the game, you are welcome to enjoy it. I have not seen a single video or screenshot that has convinced me this game is worth my time. The first game was ok, but I did think it was too violent. It sounds like they doubled down on that in this game, now with better graphics.
They did and as much as i like it, even if it's all just play pretend. Most of the time i feel it questionable to be killing enemies which it's kinda brilliant given the plot, the game does everything it can to make you feel constantly at odds with killing enemies just like your character might be. It is kinda exhausting and bleak.
 
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Spukc

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Too mature for my liking. They didn't overreact to the sex scene or go "DUDE ABBY IS SOOOOOO JACKED DUDDDDEEEEE".

6.463871/10
 

DForce

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Nov 23, 2017
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Ballsy != good story telling. Ballsy just means it was a risk, not that it paid off. When you need your game "explained"? That's an indication it didn't pay off.

There's people who heed help understanding basic stories. There's people who think TLOU 1 is a basic "zombie story" when it's clearly a story about Ellie and Joel's relationship.
 

rofif

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Sep 13, 2019
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I played the game and
makes no sense why Abby couldnt stay slim Abby, or more Lara Croft fit if youd like. When I played that part and realized she became The Terminator only 3 years later and it was never explained why...wtf was the point of making her so big. It felt so stupid to play after playing her slim version
oh my god this again. This really does not matter. She could take steroids and practice. She is a top soldier and could get fed enough.
Treat is as female chris redfield. She punches zombies good
 

martino

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Apr 25, 2013
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i think the problem is here ...for a lot of people it's a 10 only because it's attempting things and not for being successful doing them ...
and it's people looking how it's done that have problems with it.
 
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martino

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There's people who heed help understanding basic stories. There's people who think TLOU 1 is a basic "zombie story" when it's clearly a story about Ellie and Joel's relationship.
Tlou would be better without zombies imo (even more part II)
 

sobaka770

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i think the problem is here ...for a lot of people it's a 10 only because it's attempting things and not for being successful doing them ...
and it's people looking how it's done that have problems with it.

There are only 2 distracting problems with the game:

- Non-existend SJW agenda bigots (e.g. day 0 reviewers)
- Whiplash from Joel dying - and GR tackles this greatly - where people are so attached to the character they no longer are able to follow through the game (e.g. Angry Joe)

These two groups create a vast majority of bad arguments to justify their agenda or emotional issues. The game is a test of empathy and allowing the emotions to run through you. The more you resist the more you think it's because of "pacing" issues and "poor" writing.

If you can get past those two roadblocks I think the rate of "success" immediately jumps to about 70-80%. The remaining dissatisfied people usually have good personal arguments on why the game didn't resonate with them and that's fair.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Sep 4, 2018
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There's people who heed help understanding basic stories.
nah i don't think so. i think this is a false narrative whipped up by pseudo intellectuals to make themselves seem smart for liking a videogame/movie/whatever. most people understand basic stories.

to pretend otherwise is silly, especially given that storytelling has kind of fell to shit as of recently. people upset at how they killed Joel didn't fail to understand what was happening. they knew, they understood, they just didn't like it. there is a difference between not liking a thing and not understanding it. you trying to treat them like idiots only shows how full of yourself you are.

i think there are far more people who just like to pretend that having an opinion makes them smart. they hide behind fake intellectualism because they can't handle criticism.

so im not a fan of "you just don't understand it". it's the same pseudo intellectual crap i heard in The Last Jedi. it's like consumer activism, only instead of "You are a morally good person if you buy this product" it is "You are smarter than everyone else for buying this product"
 
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NYR

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And the argumet that "you need to have a high IQ to enjoy it" is so pretentious.
So is simplifying any positive thoughts on the game as an attempt to think you are talking down to people.

Stories are designed to be interpreted. Nothing is black or white. You're allowed to accept different meanings out of a story. Those who took something out of the story are not talking down to those who took nothing out of it, it's sad people seem to simplify this thought to talking down to people.

It's okay to want "Joel and Ellie Fuck Shit Up 2" and it's okay to like this game and take something out of it. There is no concreteness being pushed or a "right" answer, simply perspective.

nah i don't think so. i think this is a false narrative whipped up by pseudo intellectuals to make themselves seem smart for liking a videogame/movie/whatever. most people understand basic stories.
See above.
 
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DForce

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Nov 23, 2017
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If you're trying to say that TLOU 2 is basic, then yes. Yes it is.

You're missing the point.


How people view the first 3 hours

leading up to Joel's death.
It's a major coincidence and she just magically run into Joel and Tommy. Tommy just gives them their names like an idiot.

If people were actually paying attention, they would know.

In the flashback scene with Tommy and Ellie, you find out that Joel and Tommy love taking that route that leads to the ski lounge.

Abby knew Tommy's name months before traveling to Jackson.

Owen spotted people from Jackson who frequently took the ski lounge route. Abby's plan was to capture anyone from Jackson to lure Joel out.

Abby tracked Joel and Tommy's location by following the horse tracks.

Joel shouts Tommy's name while fighting off the infected, so that means Abby knew that was Tommy he introduced himself to Abby.

This is not complex. There's people who don't really pay attention to what's going on and just label it as bad writing.
 

Keihart

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Jun 23, 2013
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You're missing the point.


How people view the first 3 hours

leading up to Joel's death.
It's a major coincidence and she just magically run into Joel and Tommy. Tommy just gives them their names like an idiot.

If people were actually paying attention, they would know.

In the flashback scene with Tommy and Ellie, you find out that Joel and Tommy love taking that route that leads to the ski lounge.

Abby knew Tommy's name months before traveling to Jackson.

Owen spotted people from Jackson who frequently took the ski lounge route. Abby's plan was to capture anyone from Jackson to lure Joel out.

Abby tracked Joel and Tommy's location by following the horse tracks.

Joel shouts Tommy's name while fighting off the infected, so that means Abby knew that was Tommy he introduced himself to Abby.

This is not complex. There's people who don't really pay attention to what's going on and just label it as bad writing.
 

DForce

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nah i don't think so. i think this is a false narrative whipped up by pseudo intellectuals to make themselves seem smart for liking a videogame/movie/whatever. most people understand basic stories.

to pretend otherwise is silly, especially given that storytelling has kind of fell to shit as of recently. people upset at how they killed Joel didn't fail to understand what was happening. they knew, they understood, they just didn't like it. there is a difference between not liking a thing and not understanding it. you trying to treat them like idiots only shows how full of yourself you are.

i think there are far more people who just like to pretend that having an opinion makes them smart. they hide behind fake intellectualism because they can't handle criticism.

so im not a fan of "you just don't understand it". it's the same pseudo intellectual crap i heard in The Last Jedi. it's like consumer activism, only instead of "You are a morally good person if you buy this product" it is "You are smarter than everyone else for buying this product"


They understand it?

People think Joel and Tommy would've survived if they didn't give up their names, when in fact Abby KNEW who Tommy was before traveling to Jackson.

No one is saying you have to be intellectually superior to understand this, you just have to literally pay attention to the story.
 

Lanrutcon

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Feb 19, 2014
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It is anything but basic. It's deep and cathartic. Not many games achieve that
but basic? really? hyperbole

Cathartic? really? With that ending? That's creepy.

This is not complex. There's people who don't really pay attention to what's going on and just label it as bad writing.

That's pretty cool. Now do the other 400 complaints people against the writing.

No wait you'd probably try I'm not reading that shit the game was bad enough good lord
 
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AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
May 31, 2018
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I'm gonna get crucified for this, but I'm going to draw a parallel from my reading and youtube watching.

TLOU2 sounds like it suffers from the same thing the Walking Dead tv series suffered from. After a while, it's just a bunch of killing and gore. The faces are changing so frequently that it's no longer worth caring about the protags. You begin to wonder why you should even be engaged in the story. All hope is lost anyway.

In a way. I'm not the right person to comment on this because I think The Walking Dead is hot garbage, but I don't have a PHD in creative writing, so according to some I'm not allowed to comment on the matter.

In all seriousness, kind of. TWD shared a similar issue as early as season 2; you've got the Armageddon happening and you have to endure 6 hours of inane, dreary social drama before everyone remembers that the world is ending and that zombies are the real reason people are watching. I gave up on the show multiple times and never watched past S4, and at the time the cast was mostly the same people, so I can't say whether or not it feels the same. TLOU2 is weird in that we only had one game before it, but the sequel introduces so many new faces that get practically no time to flesh themselves out before they're written off with zero care or thought given.

Seriously, the number of times a named character dies in this game and the remaining cast completely shrug off the death is staggering. This could very well be done in a way that comments on how people in this world simply don't care as much about the death of their loved ones as you might expect, but no; the core plot for both playable characters revolves entirely around how much they care about one or two specific people for one reason or another. The juxtaposition is jarring.
 
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Hawke502

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Oh, i understand the game now. Every story has multiple sides, revenge bad. I suddenly like it, wow, so brave, best game ever. Neil Druckmann please enter my house and fuck all my family while i watch, you genius.
 

Keihart

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It’s actually a rip off of Children Of Men.
Did you really went for the surface inspiration instead of the most important one?
There is way more country for old man than Children of Men.
The cinematography, the long silences between dialogue, the way violence break the silence, the nihilistic feeling of the story.
i could go on, but whatever, sure, it's children of men lol
 

bohrdom

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nah i don't think so. i think this is a false narrative whipped up by pseudo intellectuals to make themselves seem smart for liking a videogame/movie/whatever. most people understand basic stories.

to pretend otherwise is silly, especially given that storytelling has kind of fell to shit as of recently. people upset at how they killed Joel didn't fail to understand what was happening. they knew, they understood, they just didn't like it. there is a difference between not liking a thing and not understanding it. you trying to treat them like idiots only shows how full of yourself you are.

i think there are far more people who just like to pretend that having an opinion makes them smart. they hide behind fake intellectualism because they can't handle criticism.

so im not a fan of "you just don't understand it". it's the same pseudo intellectual crap i heard in The Last Jedi. it's like consumer activism, only instead of "You are a morally good person if you buy this product" it is "You are smarter than everyone else for buying this product"

I'd make the argument that Joel's death was executed incredibly well. So well, that some people are turned off by the rest of the game and they don't want to look at Abby's story. You're so attached to a character that you don't realize that in someone else's story Joel is a villain. Joel did really messed up things to get to Jackson.

However, if you do realize this, then you choose not to view the story from another character's lens because you don't want to empathize with them. It's because you've picked a side rather than seeing how things unfold on both sides.

How many games do this?I can only think of two other games but not to this depth. It's rare to see it in visual storytelling. That's what makes this game unique and risky in narrative story telling. It's pushing what a medium can do.
 
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Chromata

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Jul 11, 2019
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nah i don't think so. i think this is a false narrative whipped up by pseudo intellectuals to make themselves seem smart for liking a videogame/movie/whatever. most people understand basic stories.

to pretend otherwise is silly, especially given that storytelling has kind of fell to shit as of recently. people upset at how they killed Joel didn't fail to understand what was happening. they knew, they understood, they just didn't like it. there is a difference between not liking a thing and not understanding it. you trying to treat them like idiots only shows how full of yourself you are.

i think there are far more people who just like to pretend that having an opinion makes them smart. they hide behind fake intellectualism because they can't handle criticism.

so im not a fan of "you just don't understand it". it's the same pseudo intellectual crap i heard in The Last Jedi. it's like consumer activism, only instead of "You are a morally good person if you buy this product" it is "You are smarter than everyone else for buying this product"

I think you're taking the debates surrounding the game a little too personally. Not understanding a story doesn't mean you have a low IQ, many good stories challenge their audience to think/feel in ways they aren't used to.

For example, Eyes Wide Shut is a great movie that's hard to understand but still extremely interesting. Once you piece things together, you really see all the nuance and care that went into the story. I loved those kinds of movies growing up. If I didn't understand it, it's not because I was stupid, but because I wasn't used to seeing things in that way. So I learned.

The main issue here is that many people read the leaks or saw the story go in a direction they didn't want and immediately shut themselves off of it. They might as well have just stopped playing at that point. We can tell people did this because their criticisms are so easily explained within the game itself (like Joel helping Abby).

Paying close attention and analyzing themes is mandatory for critical discussion. This has nothing to do with condescension or intelligence, just being open to new perspectives.

For the record, I definitely disagree with the comment that most people don't understand basic stories.
 
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Jon Neu

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The cinematography, the long silences between dialogue, the way violence break the silence, the nihilistic feeling of the story.
i could go on, but whatever, sure, it's children of men lol

lol

The cinematography is literally Children Of Men, like literally whole scenes are a fucking copy. The long silence and the nihilistic feeling is shared by literally thousands of movies and tv shows.

TLOU not only borrows the cinematography and the overall feeling of Children Of Men, it literally rips off a good part of the plot.

Hell, the game was supposed to be called Mankind and be about a disease that only afected women.

Cuckmann should at least pay a dinner to Alfonso Cuarón.
 

Keihart

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lol

The cinematography is literally Children Of Men, like literally whole scenes are a fucking copy. The long silence and the nihilistic feeling is shared by literally thousands of movies and tv shows.

TLOU not only borrows the cinematography and the overall feeling of Children Of Men, it literally rips off a good part of the plot.

Hell, the game was supposed to be called Mankind and be about a disease that only afected women.

Cuckmann should at least pay a dinner to Alfonso Cuarón.
I would agree with the plot and not with the dialogue and how violence is portrayed.
The stylistic choices are also more western than straight post apocalypse too.
 

Tsukumo

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I was already suspicious of how much time they took to make this review. By the time I got five minutes into the video I realized they were trying to dodge bullets from both sides. I'm really disappointed. I get that they didn't want to upset their fanbase, but this is a game you either love or hate. There is no way around it.
 
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oh my god this again. This really does not matter. She could take steroids and practice. She is a top soldier and could get fed enough.
Treat is as female chris redfield. She punches zombies good

Im saying its stupid that they did go in the past but never explained the transformation. I thought there was at least gonna be an episode showing her doing roids or specifically saying "hey ima get so big to fuck ppl up" and her going nuts in the gym. No she just had a love relationship and all of a sudden turns into a walking clothing cabinet.

I dont care where she found the food or the roids, Im saying if they already went into the past, its glaring she had the same determination to go after "spoiler" when she was female-fit but somehow she ended up 5 times her original size.
 
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Bumblebeetuna

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I don’t really understand how anyone could perceive the narrative in LoU2 as “risky” or requiring some deep thought . It was a pretty standard story for a zombie setting. What apocalyptic story doesn’t lay out what a shithole the world has become and how humans are still the worst part of it?

It’s Walking Dead. Even the dialogue was Walking Dead tier.
 

Madflavor

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Loving the game is one thing. Hell if your immediate gut reaction is to call it a 10/10 masterpiece, I can understand that too. But when the dust settles and the honeymoon period is over, gun to your head, if you genuinely believe TLoU2 is a 10/10 masterpiece, you need to read more books and watch more film.

Believe me, I get it. As far as video game storytelling goes, it’s certainly one of the better examples. But the best video game stories still don’t hold a candle to the best written books and movies.
 

Gamerguy84

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Loving the game is one thing. Hell if your immediate gut reaction is to call it a 10/10 masterpiece, I can understand that too. But when the dust settles and the honeymoon period is over, gun to your head, if you genuinely believe TLoU2 is a 10/10 masterpiece, you need to read more books and watch more film.

Believe me, I get it. As far as video game storytelling goes, it’s certainly one of the better examples. But the best video game stories still don’t hold a candle to the best written books and movies.

Sure and I agree. A lot more of the budget needs to go to the story. Hire real writers.

Ive played a lot of beautiful games that left me scratching my head
 

Dave_at_Home

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Anyone else see the Fireflies as idiots? If Ellie is immune to the fungus, than the antibodies exist in her bloodstream. Attenuated, Inactivated, Subunit, and Toxoid, are all the different types of vaccines, and none of them involve killing the patient. Naughty Dog completely blew past this in order to get the big plot moment in the first game, and while I still feel it worked, it was still dumb. Now we move the the sequel and what do they do? They literally blow right past this issue again and build off it. If you're going to present us a world in which the only thing that separates us the from the video game version is a horrible fungal apocalypse; than you should expect players to have a critical eye toward every inconsistency in characters, plot, and story. There's a whole bunch of other reasons that I feel this sequel doesn't work well as it should, and anyone should see Jim Sterling's review to get an understanding of what I'm talking about.

To switch gears for a moment, I know I'm coming down hard on this game, but despite what I've said, it's still a solid game (if a bit too long) with fantastic performances. I totally understand Girlfreind Reviews opinion and find it to be a refreshing viewpoint. Overall, while I understand what is being presented, I feel as if the themes Naughty Dog are trying to sell here are asking the plot and story to write checks it can't cash. Feels to me at least, more often than not, a triumph of themes over substance.
 
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Mass Shift

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I love their channel, but don't know about this one. First that's not a girlfriend review. That's an actual review.
And the argumet that "you need to have a high IQ to enjoy it" is so pretentious.

I agree. There's absolutely nothing going on in this game that makes it incomprehensible to a person with average intelligence.

It's not hard at all.

A friend of mine recently finished, so we could finally start talking about it. He was a bit kinder than I was, but he still had problems with it. "They shouldn't have done it this way, Abby needed her own game"

I told him Abby DID have her own game. It's called The Last of Us 2.
 
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luffie

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I think youre confused. They explain the narrative but it doesnt mean you have to like it. For example, alot of people have no attachment to joel. And felt nothing going from Ellie to Abby. Which youre suppose to feel resentment for. There’s alot of people who seem to misunderstand the ending of the first game. Joel kidnapped Ellie. Personally I hated the game. But to say the game isnt solid is foolish. To say the game has horrible writing is funny. You can hate the plot. But I would love to know what video games are written better. Ill be surprised if this game doesnt get BAFTAs.

In the end. It doesnt matter. The game itself is extremely satisfactory. Most videogamers dont have a high bar for storytelling.
This is exactly the point #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# was making, immediately you think him/others are confused, "As if the people who didn’t like it are morons who didn’t get it. "
It's bad writing, using plot subversion for the sake of subversion and shock value, while disregarding plausibility and suspension of belief. Using forced manipulation to engage empathy while discarding characteristic and consistency that has been established in the previous game.

Your argument is no different than those who writes "you don't get the nuance" while missing the irony themselves.
 
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Cyborg

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Great video.

Putting so much hate (as some do) over a videogame still is realy hard to understand. When we have real life problems, childeren to worry about, deliver at work etc.
This medium should relax you, If it doesnt do that you should step away and find something else to enjoy.
 
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Steve.1981

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Yeah this is more like it, in terms of reviews for Last of Us 2. These guys were actually trying to engage with the story & think about it's meaning below what it shows you on the surface.

Good on them.
 
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Clear

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This is exactly the point #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# was making, immediately you think him/others are confused, "As if the people who didn’t like it are morons who didn’t get it. "
It's bad writing, using plot subversion for the sake of subversion and shock value, while disregarding plausibility and suspension of belief. Using forced manipulation to engage empathy while discarding characteristic and consistency that has been established in the previous game.

Your argument is no different than those who writes "you don't get the nuance" while missing the irony themselves.

I think the writing itself is fine, Its the direction of the piece that hurts it.
There's a fundamental mismatch between the restraint shown in the narrative and the full-on excessiveness of the gameplay that robs key moments of their potency.
 

sobaka770

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Yea I get it, I don't want to understand it...

I do not get why people are using low-IQ for some who don't like the game. IQ is just intelligence, the game is not convoluted, everyone should "get it" mentally. A lot of people see or know what ND tries to do or how the game wants to make them feel.

The main issue is exactly what I quoted: lack of Emotional response. If you can't empathise, if you resist emotionally or have low EQ, you can perfectly well go through the game and be perplexed because it doesn't touch you or you just are so numb emotionally that you like Joel just shut it off at key points. For most the death of Joel is that emotional shut-in and while intelligently they follow the plot just fine, emotionally they can't move on. I think it's a mark of a great game even if you can't feel it, that it shows something about everyone. If you didn't forgive or understand Abby by the end, while feeling like Ellie when Joel died, that's fine but whatever that says about you is very interesting.
 
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sid2vicious

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I do not get why people are using low-IQ for some who don't like the game. IQ is just intelligence, the game is not convoluted, everyone should "get it" mentally. A lot of people see or know what ND tries to do or how the game wants to make them feel.

The main issue is exactly what I quoted: lack of Emotional response. If you can't empathise, if you resist emotionally or have low EQ, you can perfectly well go through the game and be perplexed because it doesn't touch you or you just are so numb emotionally that you like Joel just shut it off at key points. For most the death of Joel is that emotional shut-in and while intelligently they follow the plot just fine, emotionally they can't move on. I think it's a mark of a great game even if you can't feel it, that it shows something about everyone. If you didn't forgive or understand Abby by the end, while feeling like Ellie when Joel died, that's fine but whatever that says about you is very interesting.

It's because people or should I say shills think the game is flawless, and if you don't like it, then you don't understand it or you're a bigot or something like that. It has nothing to do with people resisting or lacking emotion or empathy, a lot of people wanted to like this game, many more gave this game a chance enough so to buy it for $60, at least 4 million of them if we're to believe their numbers. Naughty dog was so sure this game was goty both in awards and in people hearts, problem is you can't buy yourself into people hearts. People saw through Neil Cuckman con artist ways, so he can't accept that people simply hate his game, not because they don't get it, but because it sucks. So now they're panicking like chickens without heads and blaming the people for not understanding.

 
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