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Opinion GI Biz - Xbox Series X gets its first great soundbite

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Incredible! I can't wait for the next thing that MS will "invent" that will "hurt" Sony or Nintendo.
Shhhh this is Microsoft's business model, sell something that has existed for a long time as if you just invited the whole thing... Everything they do is just that, OS, consoles, office software, cloud, etc.
 
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Are they on XBOX?


Besides AAA what is the caliber of Cyberpunk? Do you know......I'll put it out there now, Journey will have a higher Meta Score than Cyberpunk....

Dont know, I dont own an xbox, what I do know is that the MGS HD collection is only on one current gen console.

Sony’s idea? Xbox One has BC and it works well and it even improves the rendering performance of games, but a limited selection it is still nowhere near to what you are claiming.

PS2 supported like 99% of PS1 titles (enhanced), PS3 supported ~99% of both PS1 and PS2 titles (unless you decided as a consumer to buy the cheaper PS3 Slim a year after launch), PSP was compatible (not with disc version of the games obviously) with most PSOne games, PSVita was compatible with most PSOne games and all PSVita games, PS4 Pro is compatible with all PS4 titles, PS5 has already been announced to be compatible with almost every PS4 title and heavily rumoured to feature much wider BC too...

So, no... MS did not invent BC nor crossbuy.

I didnt claim anything.

As I already pointed out, you only need one MS console to play all of the games listed as BC, the X1, a current gen console. The PS4 does not have that level BC, you need to own and have setup multiple Sony consoles just to play last gen titles, FFS. If you want to play the games you own on disk and a large portion of digital games, you need to have the original hardware to do so or a last gen original PS3. That is not remotley the same as what MS has done with BC.

What current gen console can I play lasts gens Killzone 1/2/3 on? I know what current gen console I can play lasts gens Halo 1/2/3/ODST/Reach on.

"PS2 supported like 99% of PS1 titles (enhanced),
No shit. Still need to own that ps2 console or a launch PS3 to play them dont you? We're not playing them on PS4. And no, they were not enhanced on PS2.

PS3 supported ~99% of both PS1 and PS2 titles
No shit. Still not playing them on PS4, are we.

PSP with most PSOne games
Which was great, so why is the PS4 library so limited when the PSP had better support.

PSVita was compatible with most PSOne games and all PSVita games,
Of course is was compatible with PSvita games. See above as per PS1 titles.

PS4 Pro is compatible with all PS4 titles
No shit. My Toaster takes both white and brown bread

PS5 has already been announced to be compatible with almost every PS4 title and heavily rumoured to feature much wider BC too..."
It better be and well see, but going by Sonys track record I image they want you to sub to something like PSnow so they can charge us monthly to play the games we already own.


So, no... MS did not invent BC nor crossbuy.
Well, technically they did, since you can play a stupid amount of games released for windows 95/98/ME/XP and any thereafter released on later editions of windows. MS has been doing BC since your HDD was only a few hundred MB big. The beauty of the x86 architecture. Its great that console manufactures have caught up.

All this from someone who doesnt own an xbox 1. They dont have any exclusives I like. BC is important, but Id rather the majority of my time is spent playing newer games while confident that my older library of purchases isnt rendered worthless with a new version of that console.

We spend so much money on these companies, maybe if you stopped being so defensive of what amounts to a toy and demanded more from said companies, you wouldnt get ripped off so often. Why so protective of a business that doesnt value you as a consumer?
 
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thelastword

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For those that don't know, MS has also invented the SSD, GDDR6, Raytracing, consoles, video games, money and the wheel. SONY is just shamelessly copying them.
Soon you'll be hearing how MS invented fast installs, multiple save states, crossplay, streaming, vr, no loadtimes, the share button, restmode etc...….

One thing is sure, we can expect some features on PS5 we have not thought of....Naturally, features like remoteplay/shareplay will take on a whole new form, installs will be even faster than PS4 and the share/media functionality will improve significantly over what's on PS4.....I'm also looking forward to the new PS camera, maybe 4K 120fps, a better video editing tool, a much better browser and most importantly a much faster OS, no lag when you switch between games.....Looking Forward to when Eric Lempel gives the breakdown on new PSN features......One of the things I'm looking forward to is the overhauled PSN and how one Sony account connects you to all of Sony's services...….A neat feature I would think is accessing the store on your controller or saving your games on your controller without going into a menu...
 

oagboghi2

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Dont know, I dont own an xbox, what I do know is that the MGS HD collection is only on one current gen console.



I didnt claim anything.

As I already pointed out, you only need one MS console to play all of the games listed as BC, the X1, a current gen console. The PS4 does not have that level BC, you need to own and have setup multiple Sony consoles just to play last gen titles, FFS. If you want to play the games you own on disk and a large portion of digital games, you need to have the original hardware to do so or a last gen original PS3. That is not remotley the same as what MS has done with BC.

What current gen console can I play lasts gens Killzone 1/2/3 on? I know what current gen console I can play lasts gens Halo 1/2/3/ODST/Reach on.

"PS2 supported like 99% of PS1 titles (enhanced),
No shit. Still need to own that ps2 console or a launch PS3 to play them dont you? We're not playing them on PS4. And no, they were not enhanced on PS2.

PS3 supported ~99% of both PS1 and PS2 titles
No shit. Still not playing them on PS4, are we.

PSP with most PSOne games
Which was great, so why is the PS4 library so limited when the PSP had better support.

PSVita was compatible with most PSOne games and all PSVita games,
Of course is was compatible with PSvita games. See above as per PS1 titles.

PS4 Pro is compatible with all PS4 titles
No shit. My Toaster takes both white and brown bread

PS5 has already been announced to be compatible with almost every PS4 title and heavily rumoured to feature much wider BC too..."
It better be and well see, but going by Sonys track record I image they want you to sub to something like PSnow so they can charge us monthly to play the games we already own.


So, no... MS did not invent BC nor crossbuy.
Well, technically they did, since you can play a stupid amount of games released for windows 95/98/ME/XP and any thereafter released on later editions of windows. MS has been doing BC since your HDD was only a few hundred MB big. The beauty of the x86 architecture. Its great that console manufactures have caught up.

All this from someone who doesnt own an xbox 1. They dont have any exclusives I like. BC is important, but Id rather the majority of my time is spent playing newer games while confident that my older library of purchases isnt rendered worthless with a new version of that console.

We spend so much money on these companies, maybe if you stopped being so defensive of what amounts to a toy and demanded more from said companies, you wouldnt get ripped off so often. Why so protective of a business that doesnt value you as a consumer?
Saying “I don’t own a Xbox” doesn’t make you sound any less of a troll.

bringing up windows 95 in a thread about consoles releasing in 2020? Fucking ridicoulous.
 
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Panajev2001a

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"PS2 supported like 99% of PS1 titles (enhanced),
No shit. Still need to own that ps2 console or a launch PS3 to play them dont you? We're not playing them on PS4. And no, they were not enhanced on PS2.
[edit: PSOne titles were enhanced on PS2... they offered toggable bi-linear filtering and faster loading times options... I owned a year one PS3, then gamers shouted they preferred a cheaper PS3 than BC and got their wish]

PS3 supported ~99% of both PS1 and PS2 titles
No shit. Still not playing them on PS4, are we.
[edit: and?]

PSP with most PSOne games
Which was great, so why is the PS4 library so limited when the PSP had better support. [edit: various reasons, one could be that gamers care a lot less about BC with those consoles than you or I do and sales of PS3 Slim and PS4 proved then right, didn’t they? PS5 deals with different expectations and a much stronger emphasis on

PSVita was compatible with most PSOne games and all PSVita games,
Of course is was compatible with PSvita games. See above as per PS1 titles.[edit: I meant PSP games which were part of your digital library since UMD could not be read on PSVita]

PS4 Pro is compatible with all PS4 titles
No shit. My Toaster takes both white and brown bread
[Edit: completely missed the point]

PS5 has already been announced to be compatible with almost every PS4 title and heavily rumoured to feature much wider BC too..."
It better be and well see, but going by Sonys track record I image they want you to sub to something like PSnow so they can charge us monthly to play the games we already own.


So, no... MS did not invent BC nor crossbuy.
Well, technically they did, since you can play a stupid amount of games released for windows 95/98/ME/XP and any thereafter released on later editions of windows. MS has been doing BC since your HDD was only a few hundred MB big. The beauty of the x86 architecture. Its great that console manufactures have caught up.

All this from someone who doesnt own an xbox 1. They dont have any exclusives I like. BC is important, but Id rather the majority of my time is spent playing newer games while confident that my older library of purchases isnt rendered worthless with a new version of that console.

We spend so much money on these companies, maybe if you stopped being so defensive of what amounts to a toy and demanded more from said companies, you wouldnt get ripped off so often. Why so protective of a business that doesnt value you as a consumer?

Provided some comments inline above (will break them for better formatting after, when I am not on the phone).

... btw, I like the “Going by their track record”... and proceeding to ignore such record as if PS4 were the only console they ever released and ignore the rest.
Then we take MS Windows into the mix because why not... then after trying to swatch away most of the argument you proceed on the offensive going back to a rather passive aggressive “poor sheeple screwed over by Sony over and over why so protective of them?”.
 
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Saying “I don’t own a Xbox” doesn’t make you sound any less of a troll.

bringing up windows 95 in a thread about consoles releasing in 2020? Fucking ridicoulous.

Im a troll for stating fact? No. I think youre a child for not accepting that one toy manufacture does somethings better than another toy manufacture.

Grow up. Its literally just a game.

My mentioning of windows 95 was in reference to someone else's comment about backwards compatibility. I can play a windows 95 game on a later edition of windows. That is backwards compatibility and it was done before consoles started doing it. Re-read my previous post and youll understand.


Provided some comments inline above (will break them for better formatting after, when I am not on the phone).

... btw, I like the “Going by their track record”... and proceeding to ignore such record as if PS4 were the only console they ever released and ignore the rest.
Then we take MS Windows into the mix because why not... then after trying to swatch away most of the argument you proceed on the offensive going back to a rather passive aggressive “poor sheeple screwed over by Sony over and over why so protective of them?”.

Jesus christ some of you need to calm down.

BTW, who are you on the phone to. Sony's BC department?
 
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oagboghi2

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Im a troll for stating fact? No. I think youre a child for not accepting that one toy manufacture does somethings better than another toy manufacture.

Grow up. Its literally just a game.
that’s rich coming from the guy who has spent how many posts here defending MS?

you‘re purposely dismissing the argument people made in this thread. It’s okay though, you don’t own a Xbox.


My mentioning of windows 95 was in reference to someone else's comment about backwards compatibility. I can play a windows 95 game on a later edition of windows. That is backwards compatibility and it was done before consoles started doing it. Re-read my previous post and youll understand.




Dont bother. Im not wasting anymore time on this.
Yeah, this is what the 2nd or 3rd time you‘ve made your last post in this thread?

comparing a console to a desktop PC is ridiculous, but you know already knew that.
 

FacelessSamurai

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The difference here is that if you buy Cyberpunk 2077 on Xbox One and play on series X, you don’t have to buy the same game again to get the next gen experience, it’ll be patched and playable at a higher fidelity as if you had bought the Series X version of the game. Not just backwards compatible.
 
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that’s rich coming from the guy who has spent how many posts here defending MS?

you‘re purposely dismissing the argument people made in this thread. It’s okay though, you don’t own a Xbox.



Yeah, this is what the 2nd or 3rd time you‘ve made your last post in this thread?

comparing a console to a desktop PC is ridiculous, but you know already knew that.

I thought I made a clear point, but a few other posts (that even replied to "my last post") didnt quite understand. Felt it better to further explain rather than ignore.

Im not defending anyone by pointing out facts. Sony can do better in the BC department. MS needs these things called exclusives.

Ive been screwed to kingdom come by both of these companies enough to not feel the need to blindly defend or favor one over the other. Give it a try and maybe you won be so angry over criticism of your favorite toy.


Just fkng chill. Its only video games.
 
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thelastword

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Dont know, I dont own an xbox, what I do know is that the MGS HD collection is only on one current gen console.
Yet that's one game/series or disc and these games has had collections since the PS2 days.......MS is talking about current games or more recent games being cross play....

The MGS HD collection, including peacewalker were all on PS3, MGS4 was enhanced towards the end for PS3 as well.....PS has the most MGS games.....The only reason you could not play these games on PS4 is because it had no BC......If you are an MGS fan though, really you should have a PS3 to play the whole stable...That maybe corrected on PS5, where you will play all games on a PS5, those you wont be able to on Series X...….Don't talk if that's what Bluepoint is working on....
 
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Thats so easy to say when you have released zero good AAA games in like 10 years

Not sure I'd agree with that. I'm one of MS's harshest critics and the XB1 is a fucking awful system, but there's been a small handful of good AAA games for it in my opinion.

- Forza Horizon 2
- Forza Horizon 3
- Forza Horizon 4
- Gears of War 5
- Sunset Overdrive
- Killer Instinct
- Rare Replay

Especially the Horizon games, best racing games of the past decade in my opinion. I really do hope MS pulls out all the stops this generation though. They gained a fair bit of goodwill with their progressive cross generation (Xbox, 360, XBLA) BC stance over the last few years! They're ahead of the curve compared to Sony in that respect.
 
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thelastword

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Glad we're on the same page.

And no, MGS4 was not enhanced. I dont think that word means what you think it does.
Lol, it depends on if you think "enhanced" only applies to visuals.....

Installing the entire game at once including trophy support is one hell of an enhancement to me......Literally everybody cried for this....There were numerous threads on GAF asking for these two features...
 

Panajev2001a

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Jesus christ some of you need to calm down.

BTW, who are you on the phone to. Sony's BC department?

Not even bothering to reply to the points raised anymore, avoiding them altogether, and losing your cool 😏 and I am the one that needs to calm down :rolleyes:? Sure...
 
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FacelessSamurai

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Instead of relying on low effort console warring, tear apart the user's post. Attack the argument, not the poster.
Soon you'll be hearing how MS invented fast installs, multiple save states, crossplay, streaming, vr, no loadtimes, the share button, restmode etc...….

One thing is sure, we can expect some features on PS5 we have not thought of....Naturally, features like remoteplay/shareplay will take on a whole new form, installs will be even faster than PS4 and the share/media functionality will improve significantly over what's on PS4.....I'm also looking forward to the new PS camera, maybe 4K 120fps, a better video editing tool, a much better browser and most importantly a much faster OS, no lag when you switch between games.....Looking Forward to when Eric Lempel gives the breakdown on new PSN features......One of the things I'm looking forward to is the overhauled PSN and how one Sony account connects you to all of Sony's services...….A neat feature I would think is accessing the store on your controller or saving your games on your controller without going into a menu...
I’ve never seen so much Sony dick sucking in my life! Accessing the store on your controller.... like wtf dude, stop with the shit, we don’t want to hear any of your stupid ideas!
 
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Three

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I think you are confusing cross save with cross buy. Diablo 3 was never cross buy and forced you to buy a seperate version.

Xbox 360-Xb1 also had cross buy games like CoD Ghosts. It’s not a either one did it first thing here.
Cod Ghosts was a £10 uprade. Not free.

And by cross buy they mean cross buy not cross save which they also did.
 
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FacelessSamurai

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Yet that's one game/series or disc and these games has had collections since the PS2 days.......MS is talking about current games or more recent games being cross play....

The MGS HD collection, including peacewalker were all on PS3, MGS4 was enhanced towards the end for PS3 as well.....PS has the most MGS games.....The only reason you could not play these games on PS4 is because it had no BC......If you are an MGS fan though, really you should have a PS3 to play the whole stable...That maybe corrected on PS5, where you will play all games on a PS5, those you wont be able to on Series X...….Don't talk if that's what Bluepoint is working on....
So you’re an insider now and can confirm all of this?
 

DeepEnigma

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The difference here is that if you buy Cyberpunk 2077 on Xbox One and play on series X, you don’t have to buy the same game again to get the next gen experience, it’ll be patched and playable at a higher fidelity as if you had bought the Series X version of the game. Not just backwards compatible.

Now unless they have a separate packaging with the separate version (or include it on the disc), which I hope they do, it sounds awful lot like you need to be connected to the Internet for this experience, otherwise you’re playing a BC version.

I guess we wait for more information, and hopefully not one box for all the versions and internet is required to take advantage (like Pro/X is now in select games that patch enhancements later than retail).
 
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FacelessSamurai

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Now unless they have a separate packaging with the separate version (or include it on the disc), which I hope they do, it sounds awful lot like you need to be connected to the Internet for this experience, otherwise you’re playing a BC version.

I guess we wait for more information, and hopefully not one box for all the versions and internet is required to take advantage (like Pro/X is now in select games that patch enhancements later than retail).
We can all pretty much assume it will require the Internet, but honestly who cares in 2020 When almost all games require it anyway these days? It’s not BC if the disc is detected and the real next gen version is what you get in the end.

But I already see people coming with “oh but people who have 2mbit internet” but in 2020 that’s not an issue anymore. I’ve even been to shitty places with the military where I could pay 5$ a week for unlimited LTE that I could tether and was able to download over 1TB a month with. So it’s perfectly acceptable these days.
 
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SleepDoctor

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I didn't know this was a Ps5 thread.... oh wait lol


OT: As long as I don't have to rebuy any games, thats perfect. Between this and Game pass, the selection of games won't be so bad at launch even with a lack of exclusives
 
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Panajev2001a

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The only point ive seen you make so far is the tent sony has pitched in your pants.

Well, now that you got that out of your system... are you going to address my answers to your answers, you know like taking part in the discussion, or are you going to keep going with more “witty” drive-by trolls?
 

Mod of War

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Enough of the petty and juvenile personal insults over vidya. Those of you doing this sound like a bunch of hypocritical children.

Points can be made on all sides without resorting to those false feelings of offense for your favorite console sports team, and then lashing out with it.
 
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Well, now that you got that out of your system... are you going to address my answers to your answers, you know like taking part in the discussion, or are you going to keep going with more “witty” drive-by trolls?

I think youve confused my posts for your own.

Ive posted nothing but facts and addressed everything youve mentioned.

Again, youve not raised any points or put questions forward.
 
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Panajev2001a

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I think youve confused my posts for your own.

Ive posted nothing but facts and addressed everything youve mentioned.

Again, youve not raised any points or put questions forward.

I guess that reading the comments inside the post I replied too was too difficult because of my lack of formatting. Will correct (did you see the parts with [edit: ...] in the message I was quoting? Like the part where you stated with absolute certainty that PS1 games on PS2 were not enhanced ;)...?).

You certainly did not complain people were losing their shit over this and then proceeded to make sexual arousements innuendos in the post right after :rolleyes: ? Like I said, lack of self awareness perhaps?
 
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I guess that reading the comments inside the post I replied too was too difficult because of my lack of formatting. Will correct (did you see the parts with [edit: ...] in the message I was quoting? Like the part where you stated with absolute certainty that PS1 games on PS2 were not enhanced ;)...?).

You certainly did not complain people were losing their shit over this and then proceeded to make sexual arousements innuendos in the post right after :rolleyes: ? Like I said, lack of self awareness perhaps?

[edit: PSOne titles were enhanced on PS2... they offered toggable bi-linear filtering and faster loading times options... I owned a year one PS3, then gamers shouted they preferred a cheaper PS3 than BC and got their wish]
Bi-linner filter is not an "enhancement', it simply smears the screen to hide artifacts in lower res textures.

Faster load times are a given, not an intentional patch or improvement by Sony or game devs specifically for ps1 games. The load times came with the hardware. Thats a natural evolution of using better hardware with older games. Older games running on better hardware isnt enhanced, its simply old code performing better on new hardware where it was previously limited. It is not patched/improved/modified or enhanced code. Same code, running on new hardware, not enhanced/patched.


[edit: and?]
The entire point of this conversation was MS vs Sonys backwards compatibility. Which youve done everything to make excuses for then act like youve made valid points. while accusing other of not partaking in the conversation.


[edit: various reasons, one could be that gamers care a lot less about BC with those consoles than you or I do and sales of PS3 Slim and PS4 proved then right, didn’t they? PS5 deals with different expectations and a much stronger emphasis on
People are going to buy a new console regardless since its new, their freinds have one and to keep up with the latest games, but the fact that so many older titles that are avaible on PSN have continue to sell (the FF series remasters/Resident Evil Remake which then lead to Capcom geenlighting RE2/RE3 remakes) says that yes, consumers do want proper backwards compatibilty.


[edit: I meant PSP games which were part of your digital library since UMD could not be read on PSVita]
Half of your posts make no sense. If youre saying the PVita has (well, had) better support for it predecessor than the ps4 does for its, then yes, that was my point. Once the last vita is sold/dead, where are you going to play those vita exclusives?


[Edit: completely missed the point]
You didnt make one. Of course the PS4 Pro is compatible with PS4 games. Its in the name. Its still a ps4, jst with better hardware. The only reason the Pro exists is if devs want to "enhance" their current or future games for PS4. Bloodborne for example, one the most popular PS4 titles...oh wait...it never got enhanced even on its current gen platform.


- You forgot a one..."are you going to address my answers to your answers, you know like taking part in the discussion?"

So, no... MS did not invent BC nor crossbuy.
Well, technically they did, since you can play a stupid amount of games released for windows 95/98/ME/XP and any thereafter released on later editions of windows. MS has been doing BC since your HDD was only a few hundred MB big. The beauty of the x86 architecture. Its great that console manufactures have caught up.
 
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Panajev2001a

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[edit: PSOne titles were enhanced on PS2... they offered toggable bi-linear filtering and faster loading times options... I owned a year one PS3, then gamers shouted they preferred a cheaper PS3 than BC and got their wish]
Bi-linner filter is not an "enhancement', it simply smears the screen to hide artifacts in lower res textures.

Bilinear filtering was not applied as a post process effect on the whole screen, PS2 had a toggable option to apply bilinear texture filtering which applied to textures to reduce surface aliasing (good ol' texture shimmering as textures in the distance would cause a scenario where multiple texels would "map" to a single on screen pixel and this mapping would change based on camera or object motion... same reason why mip-mapping was invented: on top of filtering if you load a lower resolution version of the texture based on camera distance and angle between surface and camera view [which influences your sampling calculations hence the invention of anisotropic filtering which samples non-uniformly]).
Bilinear samples four texels are averaged together to produce the final sampled value. It is useful to make some closeup textures appear more pleasant, but it is there to improve overall image quality by reducing surface aliasing (instead of a single texture sample that varies per frame you are taking and averaging 4 samples).

Faster load times are a given, not an intentional patch or improvement by Sony or game devs specifically for ps1 games. The load times came with the hardware. Thats a natural evolution of using better hardware with older games. Older games running on better hardware isnt enhanced, its simply old code performing better on new hardware where it was previously limited. It is not patched/improved/modified or enhanced code. Same code, running on new hardware, not enhanced/patched.
No they were not a given, hence why the option to increase loading speed was toggable and actually broke some titles.
Unlike other attempts later, the focus was on having 99+% of titles compatible and working exactly as they did on the older machine... and then they also attempted to run the titles better by offering texture filtering and loading times improvement options.

Applying this change as well as bilinear filtering above to PS1 titles and still maintain quasi perfect compatibility was not easy given the tricks these older titles liked to play based on exact specs knowledge of these fixed box consoles (hence why I can believe some titles may misbehave when given data faster than they expected).
Compared to current machines and SDK's, there was a combination of both different software engineering maturity and programming closer to the metal (less abstractions)... hence delivering the improvements Xbox One X delivered when running Xbox, Xbox 360, and Xbox One titles was more difficult (MS was smart with the virtualised approach taken with the Xbox One platform btw)... and still Xbox One S/X compatibility of Xbox and Xbox 360 titles is nowhere near 90-99% of the produced titles and that must be taken into account too when comparing things.

[edit: and?]
The entire point of this conversation was MS vs Sonys backwards compatibility. Which youve done everything to make excuses for then act like youve made valid points. while accusing other of not partaking in the conversation.

No, the entire conversation was trying to elevate MS's approach (which stands tall on its own merits) to the heavens by misrepresenting and cherry picking things to put down the whole PlayStation legacy based on one console generation.

[edit: various reasons, one could be that gamers care a lot less about BC with those consoles than you or I do and sales of PS3 Slim and PS4 proved then right, didn’t they? PS5 deals with different expectations and a much stronger emphasis on
People are going to buy a new console regardless since its new, their freinds have one and to keep up with the latest games, but the fact that so many older titles that are avaible on PSN have continue to sell (the FF series remasters/Resident Evil Remake which then lead to Capcom geenlighting RE2/RE3 remakes) says that yes, consumers do want proper backwards compatibilty.

I do agree the approach to BC changed for Sony back to a premier feature hence why I expect PS5 to have full PS4 BC. PS4 was the odd one out in this respect, while you are trying to make it look like a trend setter.
The increased use of digitial downloads and mobile platforms changed customer expectations: people expect their digital library to move from one console to the next and it is super important to avoid losing people as you move from one console generation to the next. The expectation is much stronger with the recent consoles and their libraries as they do age a lot better and people mostly care about their very last generation library (again, users digital libraries are changing things).

With that said, remasters and remakes with much improved visual quality and gameplay fixes are not that big of a case of full BC as you make it appear as a BC solution would not deliver the many enhancements and tweaks you saw in those remasters and especially not the remakes.

Last but not least, you cannot deny that consumers reaction to the PS3 Slim and the PS4 value proposition was very positive (PS3 Slim performance in the market and the difificulties in emulating PS3 games on PS4 HW made Sony's choice clear... losing PS1 and PS2 titles also did not hurt them as much as some people thought. I would have wanted full disc based BC too, but I am in the minority here). Even after Xbox One S/X announced their BC program the sales difference between the two platforms did not change much: so either BC was not in consumers' minds as much as you say it is or the catalogue offered (Xbox and Xbox 360 titles) was not as compelling as you think it is (I think it is compelling and I do appreciate BC efforts, but again... I am in the minority).

[edit: I meant PSP games which were part of your digital library since UMD could not be read on PSVita]
Half of your posts make no sense. If youre saying the PVita has (well, had) better support for it predecessor than the ps4 does for its, then yes, that was my point. Once the last vita is sold/dead, where are you going to play those vita exclusives?

See, my point was never that PS4 had a great BC approach (it does not), but that it is not an indication of the approach PS5 will follow nor it blemishes their history of great BC support in their home console and portable machine lines which is factual.

[Edit: completely missed the point]
You didnt make one. Of course the PS4 Pro is compatible with PS4 games. Its in the name. Its still a ps4, jst with better hardware. The only reason the Pro exists is if devs want to "enhance" their current or future games for PS4. Bloodborne for example, one the most popular PS4 titles...oh wait...it never got enhanced even on its current gen platform.

BC does not require enhancements ;) and just because it has PS4 in the name does not mean that changing the guts of the GPU and tweaking memory and CPU and external I/O makes BC trivial as it was something they spent considerable R&D on and still delivered Boost mode and Supersampling to help improvee unpatched software. The key of PS4 Pro BC was close to 100% compatibility, not automated remasters of every title.
Not sure why you are making the Bloodborne example as closing point there... PS4 put down bingo trying to fill all the slots ;)?

So, no... MS did not invent BC nor crossbuy.
Well, technically they did, since you can play a stupid amount of games released for windows 95/98/ME/XP and any thereafter released on later editions of windows. MS has been doing BC since your HDD was only a few hundred MB big. The beauty of the x86 architecture. Its great that console manufactures have caught up.
Apparently MS also caught up in the consoles space (Windows on desktop is not the same thing as Xbox, but trying to use Windows's halo effect is a nice touch)... since they went PowerPC for a whole generation ;).

Windows approach to BC is a testament to strong will and good software engineering that survived 16 bits to 32 bits to 64 bits transitions of x86 (which are big CPU architecture changes). It was the core of Windows and the libraries and shims they provided that enabled it, much more so than x86 alone.
Windows, while they excelled at it, also did not invent BC (and by the same extent cross buy since now it is paired with BC).
 

Aion002

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Wow this thread has so much spin that Phil must be proud of some of you guys.


It's not that hard to understand:

- Sony stated that the Ps5 will have backwards compatibility with the Ps4. No matter what rumors you read, it's just a rumour, until Sony says otherwise. Or do you believe in flat earth or some other shit too,just cause there are "rumors"?

- Xbox didn't invent cross buy and backwards compatible devices. Atari 7800 it's calling.

- We don't know if the Ps5 will be backwards compatible withe the Ps1, 2 and 3.


Some posts are almost : "Ms is so kind! Stop badmouthing her!!"

This is beyond weird. I am out.
 

Clear

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Its a pretty dumb article to be truthful. The basic thesis being that by saying always get the next gen Xbox version "free", they are putting pressure on Sony because they would be denied the opportunity to make "The Last Of Us Remastered"-type money on PS5.

The obvious comeback to which, is that this is not a hard transition like PS3 to PS4 where code from one is unable to be run natively on the other. This is basically the same scenario as a mid-gen refresh because hardware compatibility is expected.

Having B/C "out the box", diminishes the value of remastering massively. People bought TLOU because the remaster was the only way you could play that game on PS4. Without that natural scarcity their value as products is diminished, and that goes for gamers and devs alike.

tl;dr; if Sony was that attached to making money off of remasters they wouldn't have aimed for B/C at a hardware level on PS5!
 
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Fafalada

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So, no... MS did not invent BC nor crossbuy.
Well, technically they did, since you can play a stupid amount of games released for windows 95/98/ME/XP and any thereafter released on later editions of windows. MS has been doing BC since your HDD was only a few hundred MB big.
There's nothing technical about it - BC was 'invented' (and available in consumer devices on the market) years before MS even existed as an entity. x86 may have a claim to the most longevity in the BC space (but that would be an IBM invention, or possibly Intel's) but it was not the origin/invention of it either.

The beauty of the x86 architecture. Its great that console manufactures have caught up.
See - this is one thing where MS should get credit for, rather than the hardware, because bulk of the reasons for above-mentioned longevity are in software, not the hardware. Windows is only backwards compatible as far as it is thanks to MSs investment in the space, and the same goes for most modern PC software. Everything that predates those efforts is subject to shoddy compatibility (or no compatibility at all) - such as most DOS applications that will only run through emulation on modern hardware today.
Consoles aren't magically compatible through use of x86 either - both X1X and Pro make GPU hardware design concessions (that have no relation to x86 at all) specifically tailored to ensure software remains compatible.

MS version of "if you own it, and it's on the list of titles we deem compatible just plug and play"
Fixed.
 

Clear

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There's nothing technical about it - BC was 'invented' (and available in consumer devices on the market) years before MS even existed as an entity. x86 may have a claim to the most longevity in the BC space (but that would be an IBM invention, or possibly Intel's) but it was not the origin/invention of it either.


See - this is one thing where MS should get credit for, rather than the hardware, because bulk of the reasons for above-mentioned longevity are in software, not the hardware. Windows is only backwards compatible as far as it is thanks to MSs investment in the space, and the same goes for most modern PC software. Everything that predates those efforts is subject to shoddy compatibility (or no compatibility at all) - such as most DOS applications that will only run through emulation on modern hardware today.
Consoles aren't magically compatible through use of x86 either - both X1X and Pro make GPU hardware design concessions (that have no relation to x86 at all) specifically tailored to ensure software remains compatible.


Fixed.

Well actually, its mostly Intel we have to thank because had they not doggedly stuck to supporting the x86 ISA things would be greatly different.

The point being missed is that there's a big difference between backwards compatibility being achieved at a hardware or software level. Historically speaking games consoles required hardware-level b/c because the software back then had to run low-level (close to the metal) for performance reasons, and that's not cheap (resource-wise) or easy to emulate/virtualize.

At the end of the day all code is instruction dependent, but only some is actually hardware dependent.
 
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Bilinear filtering was not applied as a post process effect on the whole screen, PS2 had a toggable option to apply bilinear texture filtering which applied to textures to reduce surface aliasing (good ol' texture shimmering as textures in the distance would cause a scenario where multiple texels would "map" to a single on screen pixel and this mapping would change based on camera or object motion... same reason why mip-mapping was invented: on top of filtering if you load a lower resolution version of the texture based on camera distance and angle between surface and camera view [which influences your sampling calculations hence the invention of anisotropic filtering which samples non-uniformly]).
Bilinear samples four texels are averaged together to produce the final sampled value. It is useful to make some closeup textures appear more pleasant, but it is there to improve overall image quality by reducing surface aliasing (instead of a single texture sample that varies per frame you are taking and averaging 4 sample.....

...................I dont have time for this scripture, quest giver.

 
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Panajev2001a

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Well actually, its mostly Intel we have to thank because had they not doggedly stuck to supporting the x86 ISA things would be greatly different.

The point being missed is that there's a big difference between backwards compatibility being achieved at a hardware or software level. Historically speaking games consoles required hardware-level b/c because the software back then had to run low-level (close to the metal) for performance reasons, and that's not cheap (resource-wise) or easy to emulate/virtualize.

At the end of the day all code is instruction dependent, but only some is actually hardware dependent.

I think Intel and AMD sticking to their guns and going from something like 486 to Pentium Pro/4/Athlon 64/etc... was quite a marvel of ingenuity and HW achievements too.

Still, MS’s task (compare it with Android’s handling of a similar situation) was nothing short of a monumental herculean task: going from Windows 95 to Windows XP to Windows 7/Vista (the world to get the new driver model in was needed and very difficult to get right) to Windows 8 and 10 (meanwhile trying to create a successor to WIN32 and heavily refactoring their entire kernel and the years of cruft and cross layers spaghetti buildup)... with incredibly vast devices compatibility (Windows installing with little to no config on a humongous variety of HW is legendary).

You make an excellent point about BC in older consoles and how interesting was the fully virtualised gamble MS took with Xbox One by requesting and helping to deliver HW optimisations to support a fast and fully virtualised CPU and GPU solution (and then building the two OS’s on top).
 
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KellyNole

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There's nothing technical about it - BC was 'invented' (and available in consumer devices on the market) years before MS even existed as an entity. x86 may have a claim to the most longevity in the BC space (but that would be an IBM invention, or possibly Intel's) but it was not the origin/invention of it either.

This is very true. The Atari consoles had backwards compatibility in the 80s. I think they were the first console to do it.
 

Clear

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I think Intel and AMD sticking to their guns and going from something like 486 to Pentium Pro/4/Athlon 64/etc... was quite a marvel of ingenuity and HW achievements too.

Still, MS’s task (compare it with Android’s handling of a similar situation) was nothing short of a monumental herculean task: going from Windows 95 to Windows XP to Windows 7/Vista (the world to get the new driver model in was needed and very difficult to get right) to Windows 8 and 10 (meanwhile trying to create a successor to WIN32 and heavily refactoring their entire kernel and the years of cruft and cross layers spaghetti buildup)... with incredibly vast devices compatibility (Windows installing with little to no config on a humongous variety of HW is legendary).

You make an excellent point about BC in older consoles and how interesting was the fully virtualised gamble MS took with Xbox One by requesting and helping to deliver HW optimisations to support a fast and fully virtualised CPU and GPU solution (and then building the two OS’s on top).

Actually I suppose we should all be thanking IBM for being idiots and not locking down the PC spec at the outset! It was IBM's credibility within business that drove uptake and the lack of bespoke components that encouraged everyone to jump in with compatible devices. And then of course there's the pretty convoluted history of clone/compatible x86 family processors from the likes of Cyrix and Amd...

The commonality is that on the PC side everything was focused on compatibility from the start, which was why for years the biggest headache was in the video card/driver space because that really was the wild west. Obviously DirectX is MS' biggest contribution in this regard, but since that market basically thinned out to just Nvidia vs. AMD.... despite the hardware's capabilities having come on leaps and bounds DX 's original purpose as a safe abstraction layer has somewhat fallen by the wayside in favor of thinner more efficient api's like Vulkan.
 
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bRacing

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There's nothing new about that, this is something that was enjoyed on Vita/PS3 for years...….As a matter of fact, when I bought my PS4 I could have downloaded......FLOW, FLower, Sound Shapes, Journey Fez and so much more....
LOL. How about Uncharted? How about The Last of Us? Shadow of the Collosus? LOLindies
 
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Bryank75

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Yeah, but Sony's idea of backwards compatibility is based more on "only the games we say" rather than MS version of "if you own it, just plug and play"

You can put an OG xbox disk into an X1 and play your game, you cant even do that with PS2 disks on ps3 (unless youve the 60gb model) or ps4. You cant even play your disk based ps1 games on ps4.



MS isnt talking about forgettable indies.
Not indies anyway...
 
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Cross buy was hit and miss. Some titles used it, some titles didn’t, and there was little rhyme or reason.
And Sony certainly didn’t provide upgraded versions of their big games for free. God of War 3 and The Last of Us both got “remasters” that were sold separately, but really could’ve been patches. The article highlights this quite specifically. Sony also didn’t bring their established PS1 and PS2 emulation to the PS4, choosing instead to package PS2 emulation as “remasters with trophies”, and then basically abandon that anyway when it didn’t catch on.

Microsoft has committed to every first party title and full backwards compatibility and opened the door for others to follow suite. Rather than needing two different versions - two sets of packages, distribution, patches and updates, support, DLC, etc - the enticement here is that you can sell one version of the game, and leverage the scalability of the PC versions across the consoles to keep selling it long into the new generation. I’ll be curious if It’s something developers use.

Microsoft are, at the very least, making interesting moves. The Xbox 360 quite famously outsold the Xbone after launch, until Microsoft got backwards compatibility in place to stop the bleeding. I feel like this kind of policy is designed to proactively stop people holding off. When the series X launches, I’ve already got half a dozen games that will look and play better on it, because I have an S not an X. With backwards compatibility for virtually my entire Xbox library... that’s incredibly enticing, and I haven’t even seen their big Series X titles yet.

I’m keen to see Sony’s response to this. Their continual silence is only giving more space to Microsoft to make early PR wins.
You can't walk into a Sony thread and start posting truth.
 
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Gavon West

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Lol, it depends on if you think "enhanced" only applies to visuals.....

Installing the entire game at once including trophy support is one hell of an enhancement to me......Literally everybody cried for this....There were numerous threads on GAF asking for these two features...
Those arent enhancements though. You're trying too hard.

How this guy gonna legit change up the meaning of the word "enhanced" to some fuking trophies. Dude, stop! Just stop...
 
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thelastword

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LOL. How about Uncharted? How about The Last of Us? Shadow of the Collosus? LOLindies
Because I would not be able to replay the UC collection at 60fps....I would not be able to play LOU at 1800p 60fps, I would not be able to play a remake of SOTC at 1440p 60fps......

I've always said that everything has it's pros and cons. I have always said I prefer impressive remakes and remasters of big titles... I'd prefer playing remasters at 60fps than the same game with BC at the same 30fps that it was on PS3.
 

Panaphonics

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Because I would not be able to replay the UC collection at 60fps....I would not be able to play LOU at 1800p 60fps, I would not be able to play a remake of SOTC at 1440p 60fps......

I've always said that everything has it's pros and cons. I have always said I prefer impressive remakes and remasters of big titles... I'd prefer playing remasters at 60fps than the same game with BC at the same 30fps that it was on PS3.
Huh. Did u see RDR1 on Xbox one X? It’s native 4K 😂👍
Or ninja gaiden black m? Also 4K native..

AND all of this FOR FREE.
 

thelastword

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Huh. Did u see RDR1 on Xbox one X? It’s native 4K 😂👍
Or ninja gaiden black m? Also 4K native..

AND all of this FOR FREE.
Yes but a remaster would be 60fps with enhanced visuals whilst the BC version would be 30fps with the same visuals.....Ninja Gaiden Black is an OG XBOX game... That's like saying a PS2 game is running 4k 60fps on PRO..... Wipeout HD is not even a PS2 game, but a PS3 game which runs 4k 60fps with tonnes of enhancements.

For big titles I prefer remasters and remakes to BC, if I'm going to play again......