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GameSpot: The Redesign That Saved Deathloop

IbizaPocholo

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman


Before Deathloop was released to critical acclaim, early playtesters found the game so incomprehensible that it required a redesign in order to save the game from utter disaster.

Back in June 2020, the world saw gameplay from Deathloop for the very first time, revealing its slick gunplay, cool aesthetic, and an intriguing mystery to unravel. The video was met with roaring excitement.

For fans, the chance to delve into a new world developed by Arkane Lyon was exciting. Internally, however, Deathloop wasn't garnering the same enthusiasm, with a lot of early playtesters not understanding what the game even was.

Dana Nightingale, Deathloop's campaign director, tells the story of the redesign that saved the game from near disaster. Early user research had criticized the game for its obtuse and esoteric design, with some players confusing it for a different genre entirely. Much like the premise of the game, Dana had to approach the game's design from many different angles over and over again, until piecing together something coherent for early playtesters to understand only weeks before its official release date.

This is the story of the redesign that saved Deathloop.
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J

jaysius

Banned
BennyBlanco said:
no hate, but i have never seen a regular gamer hyping this game up. only the media loved it.
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They pretend they're not getting paid or getting perks for positive reviews, that's a pile of shit, if you say you're not, then you're not high enough level. They have to appease their advertisers at a high level, I mean look at the entire Kayne and Lynch thing, people would say things have changed since then, but the industry has just gotten snakier with their tactics.
 
Bragr

Bragr

Banned
BennyBlanco said:
no hate, but i have never seen a regular gamer hyping this game up. only the media loved it.
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The game is fantastic. It has shot itself in the foot with performance issues and a terrible anti-cheat solution. It destroyed its user ratings across all platforms.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
This is an especially important video for people who like to use the appearance of game developers and how they identify (transgender man, transgender woman etc) as somehow being evidence they lack skill. The same campaign director, Dana Nightingale, she's one and the same who designed the brilliant Clockwork Mansion in Dishonored 2.

https://www.gamesradar.com/the-genius-of-dishonored-2s-clockwork-mansion/

Stop judging videogame talent and skill based on someone's appearance, sexual preference, what they identify as, or even based on their personal belief system. I say this because a whole shit ton of folks do just that on here.

An excellent interview on how they go about design.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/clear-goals-and-organic-paths-the-arkane-guide-to-player-agency

Edit: BTW Deathloop is an incredible looking and well designed game for people who weren't aware. Visually I think it looks stunning. More people need to see these games on a nice OLED. Many games that I've seen people mock look wayyy better than they're ever given credit for.
 
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S

Sgt.Asher

Member
Wait so before i would of had to figure out the puzzle on my own and not have the game straight up tell me. That sounds better.
I liked Deathloop but it could of been so much more, biggest gripe is the brain dead ai. Hard mode doesn't make them any smarter either.
 
StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
BennyBlanco said:
no hate, but i have never seen a regular gamer hyping this game up. only the media loved it.
Click to expand...
jaysius said:
They pretend they're not getting paid or getting perks for positive reviews, that's a pile of shit, if you say you're not, then you're not high enough level. They have to appease their advertisers at a high level, I mean look at the entire Kayne and Lynch thing, people would say things have changed since then, but the industry has just gotten snakier with their tactics.
Click to expand...
Game sold bad too, so it shows the gamer base didn't care for it despite a ton of marketing. If you google it, there's no sales data anywhere except vague stuff like "18th most downloaded game in 2021" and on PC, it reached 20,000 concurrent Steam players at its peak (I checked Steam DB and this is true as it peaked at 20,050 players).

Not even a mention of Deathloop even hitting 1 million copies sold.
 
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SirKicksalot

SirKicksalot

Member
Virgin Arkane Lyon working on Deathloop: spends months and all budget to make players understand the time loop

Chad Arkane Austin working on Prey Mooncrash: dude it's a time loop lmao just figure out how to save all characters in one go lol
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
StreetsofBeige said:
Game sold bad too, so it shows the gamer base didn't care for it despite a ton of marketing. If you google it, there's no sales data anywhere except vague stuff like "18th most downloaded game in 2021" and on PC, it reached 20,000 concurrent Steam players at its peak (I checked Steam DB and this is true as it peaked at 20,050 players).

Not even a mention of Deathloop even hitting 1 million copies sold.
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just goes to show no matter how much you try and shove it down people's throats, some games just arent good enough to sell to the masses.
 
J

jaysius

Banned
StreetsofBeige said:
Game sold bad too, so it shows the gamer base didn't care for it despite a ton of marketing. If you google it, there's no sales data anywhere except vague stuff like "18th most downloaded game in 2021" and on PC, it reached 20,000 concurrent Steam players at its peak (I checked Steam DB and this is true as it peaked at 20,050 players).

Not even a mention of Deathloop even hitting 1 million copies sold.
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I guess you really can’t put lipstick on a pig.

Do you recalll the insanity from all the Sony fans ranting about how amazing it was when it was getting those reviews and that it was a GREAT exclusive? I sure do recall it.
 
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Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
I couldn’t stand the game, was super hyped for it, looked amazing, but it has the worst gun play i’ve ever played in a game. it feels horrible to play.

I wonder if the “genre” confusion was people thinking it was meant to be a walking sim/rpg type game, as that would have been a better game and been a good explanation for why the gun play sucks so much.
 
AndrewRyan

AndrewRyan

Member
Quote from designer: Being lost and confused is fun because of the serotonin hit when getting the answer.

No. It's not.
 
StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Pagusas said:
I couldn’t stand the game, was super hyped for it, looked amazing, but it has the worst gun play i’ve ever played in a game. it feels horrible to play.

I wonder if the “genre” confusion was people thinking it was meant to be a walking sim/rpg type game, as that would have been a better game and been a good explanation for why the gun play sucks so much.
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Even worse than real time gun play in Fallout games? That's got to be bottom of the barrel shooter gameplay.

As for me for the genre/plot, I didn't care for the time warp or AI stuff. I don't play games for plots. I just want to romp through MP mode shooters. For me, the graphics looked shit with that hazy and pastel 70s look with a slight cartoony look they strived for.
 
Hendrick's

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Pagusas said:
no not at all, i’m a pc gamer on a water cooled 5950/3090, I don’t play games at 30fps unless it’s on the switch :p
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I was just curious what felt bad, but honestly a lot of shooters feel like crap lately, so I'm not surprised.
 
remember_spinal

remember_spinal

Banned
I’m still looking forward to it and i bet they show something more on it before it comes out that will change my mind again.

I think it has more to do with the show cause a few games i saw before that I was excited about looked like of underwhelming, i felt the same about Hogwarts. Something about it looked a little more low budget

Maybe im just ready for this cross-gen period to be over already. Show me some next gen eye melting stuff
 
Barakov

Barakov

Gold Member
IbizaPocholo said:
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SAVED?
Wait What Reaction GIF
 
AV

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Can't watch at work right now but is this essentially saying the game used to be an actual time loop game and not just 4 variations on 4 maps? I enjoyed Deathloop for what it was but the way it's designed it holds your hand through the entire game.
 
usp84

usp84

Member
It's Arkane so i am willing to give this game a try eventually(since it will probably be on Gamepass right?) but i definetely expected more from the creators of Dishonored and Prey.Their next game looks terrible
 
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M

MALpractice311

Member
Dollar Store Dishonored. Play those games first and then Prey. Get this if you can't find it for $15 or less or on Gamepass. My problem with Deathloop is that it half assed everything. Fewer levels than prior Arkane games. Smaller levels than prior Arkane games. The "time loop" is just static level states. The AI is brain dead. There's only two types of enemies in the whole game. The only thing they didn't half ass was the size of the checks they were handing out to main stream games media.
 
Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
Not coming on Xbox clearly made lots of people salty but I saw some Playstation gamers expressing their love for this game, clever design and Dualsense functionality was well made iirc. Haven’t played it myself, will try on Gamepass later.
 
nemiroff

nemiroff

Gold Member
It was..worse..?? I mean, I'm TRYING to play through it right now, been a few hours and the game still keeps pissing me off. Unclear to me what's going on, where to go, when.. Why did the game urinalists love this game so much, it's not that good.

Edit: And why is the host so goddam annoying..

Edit: Or maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed..
 
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B

BeardGawd

Banned
AndrewRyan said:
Quote from designer: Being lost and confused is fun because of the serotonin hit when getting the answer.

No. It's not.
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It is awesome when done right. Haven't played Deathloop. But discovering something and figuring out a puzzle for yourself is always fun. Zelda games are full of this.
 
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