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Fireside Chat: Jim Ryan, Sony Interactive Entertainment

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Give me a chat with this bastard... Because I wanna answer about the situation of Japan Studio

What is there to answer? The studio struggled during the PS3 and PS4 years to create output... I mean look at Last Guardian, delayed 5 years.. the team basically left to form an indie Sony then paid to continue development.

There's plenty written about their struggles... how they didn't "modernize" from a technology standpoint (create re-usable engines, tools, etc.) that caused them to flounder compared to Sony's Western studios.
 
Dont mind me, I just came here to read all angry posts.

the office jim GIF
 

yurinka

Member
The "problem" for them is, they aren't likely to sell more PS5's than PS4s either way..
Higher market share does not necessarily mean more console sales. Not that it couldn't, but the overall home console market is not growing (from a user perspective). It's a good point though that if it remains fairly static and Xbox sells less, that could mean more PS5's than PS4's sold, but if some of those customers are giving money to MS via GamePass PC or xCloud and spending their time there, that's less money / time spent on Playstation too, despite "selling a console." Hence why they want to try to make sure they can compete in that space too.

But I agree with the rest, see my last post.. they are also increasing profits in other ways.. increasing money spent per customer and increasing profit due to digital being quite a bit more profitable than physical sales.

But there is money on the table if they don't at least try to expand into mobile, and PC further. And like I said, they can just go back to being console exclusive at any time.. they didn't handicap themselves in any way, PS5 is a beast, and it will be a profit beast.
The console market has been growing for many years and it's planned to continue growing. In terms of revenue (you can see it in the Newzoo worldwide gaming market yearly reports) and in users (you can see that if you add sales of all consoles of all generations once all of them get discontinued).

PS5 is selling faster than any console ever did in gaming history. Their direct competitor will release all their exclusives day one on PC and even more: in a subscription, so some of them with a gaming PC won't feel the need to buy an Xbox so in case of wanting a console may be more interested to get a PS than they were in the previous generation due to the exclusives. In a few years 2nd generation of PSVR and PS Now will be an iteration improving many issues they had last gen so may be more appealing to more people. Sony will make extra efforts on PC, movies or mobile to grow PS5 that they didn't have before.

I think PS5 not only will have a bigger market share, I think they will also sell more than PS4.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
in users (you can see that if you add sales of all consoles of all generations once all of them get discontinued).

Source on this?

Either way from a user standpoint per console it's dwarfed by PS2.

They made big strides after PS3 for sure.. PS4 was a beast.. but the numbers there aren't a huge growth point.

Nobody is arguing that revenue didn't balloon though.
 
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SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
Sony is doing great right now, but still need to bring full BC on PS5 and also have more japanese games exclusive games deals. Yosp Gave us Bloodborne in early PS4 cycle, meanwhile Jimbo and Hermen are only thinking about bringing Bloodborne and other PS4 exclusive on PC, while saying fuck YOU to full BC on PS5.
 
What is there to answer? The studio struggled during the PS3 and PS4 years to create output... I mean look at Last Guardian, delayed 5 years.. the team basically left to form an indie Sony then paid to continue development.

There's plenty written about their struggles... how they didn't "modernize" from a technology standpoint (create re-usable engines, tools, etc.) that caused them to flounder compared to Sony's Western studios.
Literally this.

There was even a short documentary many years ago when there was a new head at Japan Studio (some white dude) and he had said the studios biggest struggle is that almost every single employee was more infatuated with what they want to make personally, and not as a team.

Basically, the studio had way too many people up their own ass and refuse to play ball and catch up with modern game developments.

When they came together, it was great.

But towards the end everyone seemed to just not be able to work well with each other alongside many of the things you listed out.
 

yurinka

Member
Give me a chat with this bastard... Because I wanna answer about the situation of Japan Studio
They haven't been able to release a single hit in decades after dozens of games, and some of their projects were a money pit. Instead of shutting the studio down as they did with all western studios they had that were in a similar situation (and with the ones they didn't wait for decades), they decided to restructure Japan Studio.

Cutted the fat firing some people, changed the leadership. Moved their Japanese XDEV 2nd party publishing team to report now directly to global XDEV instead of to a local gamedev team (same as they did with all their other XDEV teams worldwide) but will continue doing their job of publishing stuff like Death Stranding Director's Cut. And merged their different Japan Studios internal development teams into their most popular one: Team Asobi, which is now a bigger team instead of having multiple smaller ones. Sine now it was the only team inside Japan Studio, they rebranded the studio to Team Asobi.

Now after restructuring both Team Asobi and their XDEV Japan team are hiring to grow fast, like all their other PS development teams. So they did something it was needed many years ago.


Sony is doing great right now, but still need to bring full BC on PS5 and also have more japanese games exclusive games deals. Yosp Gave us Bloodborne in early PS4 cycle, meanwhile Jimbo and Hermen are only thinking about bringing Bloodborne and other PS4 exclusive on PC, while saying fuck YOU to full BC on PS5.
PS5 already has full BC, they already signed many Japanese deals and are working in more. Jimbo and Hermen only have been in their position for a couple of years, and during them From has been busy with Elder Ring. But Sony signed the deal with Kadokawa, which pretty likely will mean future deals with From Soft.

Regarding them only thinking about bringing PS4 games to PC it's a lie. First, they announced PS5 will have more exclusives than ever (which also includes 2nd and 3rd), that they are growing all their internal development teams and acquiring more teams. The strategy of releasing some ports of old games to PC was already there when they joined their current position.
 
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saintjules

Member
Cool vid. I remember a while back I was trying to find info on Jim Ryan's background and it seems this video is probably the only place (and maybe I'm wrong) where he discuses where he came from and of his background within PlayStation.

You can see fully well why Game Pass and XCloud are all things MS pushes. Get as many people in your ecosystem as possible. They're thinking beyond the Console, which I would too if I were them.



This. Jim states that it frustrates him that the art that Sony's Studios are pushing games wise are only going to reach an x amount of people worldwide. They want to reach the same level of people that music and movies do. Probably the hint at what they are planning to do next.
 
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Gamerguy84

Member
Sony is doing great right now, but still need to bring full BC on PS5 and also have more japanese games exclusive games deals. Yosp Gave us Bloodborne in early PS4 cycle, meanwhile Jimbo and Hermen are only thinking about bringing Bloodborne and other PS4 exclusive on PC, while saying fuck YOU to full BC on PS5.

No one has full BC among consoles. Probably 98% of PS4 games work on PS5.
 

McCheese

Member
He comes across surprisingly well in the interview, a bit of an introverted finance-nerd, but certainly not the bumbling idiot folks made him out to be. It's a shame he's not from a game development background, but I guess with covid happening having somebody with a career in logistics and finance in charge is a sensible choice. I was mildly impressed that he remembers Jumping Flash.
 
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On Demand

Member
Cool vid. I remember a while back I was trying to find info on Jim Ryan's background and it seems this video is probably the only place (and maybe I'm wrong) where he discuses where he came from and of his background within PlayStation.

You can see fully well why Game Pass and XCloud are all things MS pushes. Get as many people in your ecosystem as possible. They're thinking beyond the Console, which I would too if I were them.



This. Jim states that it frustrates him that the art that Sony's Studios are pushing games wise are only going to reach an x amount of people worldwide. They want to reach the same level of people that music and movies do. Probably the hint at what they are planning to do next.

This liar says a lot of things. He also said they won’t do day one first party games on PSnow because they cost too much to make. It’s not profitable for them. You also have Shawn Layden explaining why putting all your games on a service won’t work out long term. The subscriber base is not there.

So for what Sony wants in their future I guess their AAAA quality games will have to change. According to their own selves.
 

kyliethicc

Member
2 quotes here from Jimbo stand out concerning the whole ubiquitous future of gaming.


"I stand back, and this may have quite some timespan attached to it, but I see no reason why gaming as ubiquitous as music, movies or TV shows."

So Jimbo is aware this will probably take like 20, 30, 40 years to achieve.


"And I also think that technology will help. This is an area that we are particularly well placed to enjoy. As each generation of technology comes along, processing power increases, graphics power increases, which in the abstract is absolutely meaningless. But to the extent that they empower the art of storytelling and the empower the ability to portray character, portray emotion, portray personality, particularly the high-end gaming experiences are going to become more and more lifelike, they're going to become richer, more emotionally engaging. And I think that will lead to an increasing convergence with other forms of entertainment, particularly cinema. And I think that will accelerate this process of ubiquity."

This is a good point.
 

PhaseJump

Member
I haven't really liked a Playstation generation since PS2 and PSP. The Vita was cool, but they did everything they could to shit on it.

My PS3 got the most use since they started signalling they were killing the services. My PS4 is a dust collecting paperweight that has a handful of games I don't give a shit about.

PS5 is a monstrosity. Ugliest shit I have ever been expected to put in a living room. I won't buy a PS5 unless they change direction, and least of all redesign the slim model to something tolerable. Yet here I see fanboys fighting any change at all.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Risky AF concept with top notch production/money.
I half agree those usually may not generate as much revenue as more generic games, but we do have third parties releasing games with riskier concepts and AAA quality. I don't think their budgets is as high as death stranding (no celebs in important roles after all) but i don't think they lose in terms of their overall production quality. For example we have:



Don't know how big the budget for this game was, but it does have a great visuals, a gigantic map of Europe, day/night/weather cycles and real brands of trucks modeled after their real counterparts. All of that for a game that revolves around delivering cargo.

AAA production CRPG:


Not only a racing game which are already on decline, but a niche type of racing game that had been dead for a while. Doesnt lose to other high profile racing games in terms of production.


RTS meets RPG


3D Factorio (game about factory building and production logistics
 
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Keihart

Member
I half agree those usually may not generate as much revenue as more generic games, but we do have third parties releasing games with riskier concepts and AAA quality. I don't think their budgets is as high as death stranding (no celebs in important roles after all) but i don't think they lose in terms of their overall production quality. For example we have:



Don't know how big the budget for this game was, but it does have a great visuals, a gigantic map of Europe, day/night/weather cycles and real brands of trucks modeled after their real counterparts. All of that for a game that revolves around delivering cargo.

AAA production CRPG:


Not only a racing game which are already on decline, but a niche type of racing game that had been dead for a while. Doesnt lose to other high profile racing games in terms of production.


RTS meets RPG


3D Factorio (game about factory building and production logistics
Just to argue my point, and not to say any of those games are not somewhat unique or good , but:

Eurotruck is not risky anymore and the production values are barely AA at most.
Baldurs Gate 3, is indie as fuck and crowdfunded too? cool shit tho.
Satisfactory is indier than No Man's Sky, Hades has higher production values.

Indie games are getting prettier thanks to new tools and crowdfunding certainly gets some games made that not even first party efforts dare, but you are not getting shit like the First Shenmue, Death Stranding, Lone Echo, Alyx and what have you without some good reason to risk losing money. Most companies are looking to do several times the budget of their games and not simply break even as first parties are ok with if they manage to bring new customers to the ecosystem.
 

Dream-Knife

Member
I don't think there's a market of "gamers" who haven't gotten into it due to lack of exposure.

I don't think there's going to be a big bump for games because they made a netflix series on it. A lot of Sony's games are already perceived as interactive movies, so making a series actually eliminates any reason such a person would want to play that game in the first place.

The market has grown with F2P and mobile games, so unless Sony goes down that road, I don't think they're really going to see the growth they are expecting. It's the same reason Xbox isn't exploding, but I guess we will see when day and date releases happen.
 

Kenpachii

Gold Member
Nice interview

Interesting to see how long he's already with PlayStation basically from the start, he basically set up entire sony division in Europe from nothing to become a juggernaut.

Good to see they are going to spread more out ot other platforms it seems, its only normal the growth is in asia country's and those are PC and Mobile mainly. Consoles can only do so much and in comparison towards other entertainment it falls behind big time if you keep it locked to a smaller demograph.

I think they struck gold with this guy in charge.
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
Just to argue my point, and not to say any of those games are not somewhat unique or good , but:

Eurotruck is not risky anymore and the production values are barely AA at most.
Baldurs Gate 3, is indie as fuck and crowdfunded too? cool shit tho.
Satisfactory is indier than No Man's Sky, Hades has higher production values.

Indie games are getting prettier thanks to new tools and crowdfunding certainly gets some games made that not even first party efforts dare, but you are not getting shit like the First Shenmue, Death Stranding, Lone Echo, Alyx and what have you without some good reason to risk losing money. Most companies are looking to do several times the budget of their games and not simply break even as first parties are ok with if they manage to bring new customers to the ecosystem.
Baldurs Gate 3 team is 3x bigger than KP's, and the devs themselves declared their budget is on the same level as AAA games. It as far from indie as it gets.

Likewise, SCS software is 2x bigger than KP's, and they've been working on the game for years releasing expansion after expansion. I doubt costs are "barely AA". And it was a risky game at some point, it just happened to gain popularity.

And even without all that, regardless of costs, if the game does end up looking like a high budget game isn't it all the same for us in the end? Satisfactory still looks as good, if not better, than some "genuine" UE4 AAA games like The Outer Worlds
 
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Keihart

Member
Baldurs Gate 3 team is 3x bigger than KP's, and the devs themselves declared their budget is on the same level as AAA games. It as far from indie as it gets.

Likewise, SCS software is 2x bigger than KP's, and they've been working on the game for years releasing expansion after expansion. I doubt costs are "barely AA". And it was a risky game at some point, it just happened to gain popularity.

And even without all that, regardless of costs, if the game does end up looking like a high budget game isn't it all the same for us in the end? Satisfactory still looks as good, if not better, than some "genuine" UE4 AAA games like The Outer Worlds
I do agree with this, we are mostly there i think. (at least for most first person games, since animations are still something that's lacking in most games with the exception of the couple of ones with the know how)
 
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yurinka

Member
This liar says a lot of things. He also said they won’t do day one first party games on PSnow because they cost too much to make. It’s not profitable for them. You also have Shawn Layden explaining why putting all your games on a service won’t work out long term. The subscriber base is not there.
The other day Shawn said they decided to put old ports on PC, before Ryan was in charge. And yes, revenue from selling games at full price is way higher than the one games get from a subscription with a few million subs, which is tiny. AAA costs hundreds of millions of dollars, it's a financial suicide to give them away and to reject profiting from them selling them at full price at launch unless they are GaaS/F2P well designed as casino apps full of IAP. This is why nobody outside MS puts non-F2P/GaaS AAA games day one on subscriptions.

So for what Sony wants in their future I guess their AAAA quality games will have to change. According to their own selves.
To continue selling them at full price, to price cut them later and less, maybe to stop making them bigger and bigger, maybe adding more GaaS/IAP/DLC, getting extra revenue from them in subscriptions or PC ports once they made all their money on consoles with the previous sources, making these IPs more popular with mobile games and movies using them, maybe rehashing stuff to make a shorter sequel, spinoff or 'director's cut' with extra content. And to -totally separate from these projects- release more smaller projects rely less on the huge ones.

This is how it seems Sony is addressing their biggest sized AAA games.
 
Do you think its reasonable to chase an audience that isnt there? Hundreds of millions of gamers is a misnomer. There arent that many gamers.

I actually dont mind games going to PC. I am a graphics whore and would always play games on PC anyway. I just dont like the precedent this sets because if hes chasing a larger audience, he will chase that audience just like any third party publisher would. And we have seen what EA, Activision and Ubisoft have produced this last decade. Mediocre trash. I would hate to see Sony first party titles follow that route.

One thing Herman mentioned in the PSX conference last month kinda rubbed me the wrong way. He said we are first and foremost great storytellers. Umm, no. You are game designers first and foremost. And now Jim is comparing his stuff to movies and tv shows wanting the average Netflix viewer to experience their games, and Im like what does that mean for future Sony games? Do they get dumbed down?

I mean it sounds like Herman, Jim Ryan and Neil Drunckmann just want to make movies and tv shows. They are in the wrong fucking business then. Go make tv shows for Netflix if you want to reach a hundred million viewers.

you’re reading too much into his comments. Sure Sony would love to have 100M sellers. Who is to say that won’t be possible one day though?

Sony first party sold 1-4M largely during the ps3 era. Now their top first party games sell 20M

I don’t think it’s unbelievable to think that one day, maybe twenty years from now, that their best hitters sell 50M+

I see things like Spider-Man and Wolverine having an absolutely massive runway. In order to reach these broader audiences gaming will need to have more emotional connection, he’s absolutely right about that.
 

Lloyd22

Member
Creating a playstation storefront on PC? with my big ass library of games and trophies? i'm fully supporting this idea, now mostly i play my games on PC, and i wish to be able to play playstation exclusives on my PC.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Did he announce day 1 pc releases for sony games?

No, but I think that's what this part is hinting at:

Cool vid. I remember a while back I was trying to find info on Jim Ryan's background and it seems this video is probably the only place (and maybe I'm wrong) where he discuses where he came from and of his background within PlayStation.

You can see fully well why Game Pass and XCloud are all things MS pushes. Get as many people in your ecosystem as possible. They're thinking beyond the Console, which I would too if I were them.



This. Jim states that it frustrates him that the art that Sony's Studios are pushing games wise are only going to reach an x amount of people worldwide. They want to reach the same level of people that music and movies do. Probably the hint at what they are planning to do next.

Some people don't want to hear it, but I'd suspect within the next 2 1/2 years you'll start to see simultaneous day 1 PS5 & PC releases, just like MS does. That's why Sony bought Nixxes. In addition to porting older games, they'll get Nixxes involved towards the end of development. So devs like Naughty Dog can focus on finishing their next AAA game, Nixxes can begin the PC port without any resources from the main dev having to be taken from the core release.
 
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Holammer

Member
Timestamp 20:27:
"... music and movies, they can be enjoyed by almost limitless audiences, *umm*... and I think some of the art our studios are making is... is some of the finest entertainment that's been made anywhere in the world and to kinda gate the audience *umm* for the wonderful art, the wonderful entertainment these studios are making, to gate the audience for that at 20 or 30 million frustrates me, and I'd love, *umm* I'd love to see a world where 100's of millions of people can enjoy these games."

Yeah, couldn't say it clearer than that? It's obvious they want to reach more customers going forward, with streaming and PC.

 

Concern

Member
So much has changed from the expectations of the strategies of these consoles from when they were announced lol. I don't like any of it but I guess this is a bridge we were gonna have to cross eventually.

I honestly would just prefer console exclusives and no subscription services but here we are and we're only going to keep going in that direction.
 
I understand what they are trying to accomplish, but I don’t like this new direction Sony is going in. For example, when Sony does day one PC releases with PS5 games, I feel that’s when Sony begins to lose hardware sales and owning a PlayStation console will be less appealing as time goes on. More emphasis on streaming? Insomniac is most likely a Marvel Studio now. Want numbers as big as music and movies? We want our games everywhere? This sounds like Microsoft and I’m not sure if that’s working out well for them. We’ll see what happens though.
 
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Can't stand the corporate use of "Fireside chat" to appear intimate and personable lol anyway was hoping he'd hint at the return of The Getaway.
 

Elder Legend

Yoir Aee Member
Wish Yoshida replace this guy sometime in the future. This constant seek to money will eventually turn Sony into a EA alike company.
I hate to tell you this but.... every company's end ultimate goal is to make as much money as possible. Microsoft has set the stage clearly with game pass and their games being available across a wider spectrum of things and multiple platforms. As competition and market shapes, others will be forced as well. Jim also confirmed that something similar to Game Pass is in the works for Sony, and I can't disagree with him, it is a smart move going forward and everyone just has to face the facts.
 
Revenue or console sales is irrelevant. This is about Cloud gaming and Sony is currently behind MS in business model, content, and platform expansion. Sony was first in terms of a major company entering the market, but they squandered that opportunity.

Or was Microsoft early and Sony is right on time?
 
So essentially, Sony will follow's Microsoft's footsteps, but are several years late.
It actually baffles me why Sony seems so infatuated with following in the footsteps of Microsoft who is trailing behind them considerably. Sony’s strategy has worked for many years and even lead to global domination. Microsoft basically had to change up their plans to stay relevant in the industry. Why potentially screw it up?
 
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FritzJ92

Member
The other day Shawn said they decided to put old ports on PC, before Ryan was in charge. And yes, revenue from selling games at full price is way higher than the one games get from a subscription with a few million subs, which is tiny. AAA costs hundreds of millions of dollars, it's a financial suicide to give them away and to reject profiting from them selling them at full price at launch unless they are GaaS/F2P well designed as casino apps full of IAP. This is why nobody outside MS puts non-F2P/GaaS AAA games day one on subscriptions.


To continue selling them at full price, to price cut them later and less, maybe to stop making them bigger and bigger, maybe adding more GaaS/IAP/DLC, getting extra revenue from them in subscriptions or PC ports once they made all their money on consoles with the previous sources, making these IPs more popular with mobile games and movies using them, maybe rehashing stuff to make a shorter sequel, spinoff or 'director's cut' with extra content. And to -totally separate from these projects- release more smaller projects rely less on the huge ones.

This is how it seems Sony is addressing their biggest sized AAA games.
Revenue from selling new games cannot be directly compared to just declare that’s it’s more money than a subscription service. The idea is that the one game may be more at first, but the subscription service continues to provide money.
Games sell less and less as it’s on the market, subscription services can say consistent the duration someone wants to keep playing a game (of course it can fluctuate) but the money never stops coming in.
There really aren’t any data that says MS strategy is less effective financially than Sonys. The one person who tried to give data had shit math (the prior Head of playstation).
 

Bryank75

Banned
Revenue from selling new games cannot be directly compared to just declare that’s it’s more money than a subscription service. The idea is that the one game may be more at first, but the subscription service continues to provide money.
Games sell less and less as it’s on the market, subscription services can say consistent the duration someone wants to keep playing a game (of course it can fluctuate) but the money never stops coming in.
There really aren’t any data that says MS strategy is less effective financially than Sonys. The one person who tried to give data had shit math (the prior Head of playstation).

I think you could very easily point to Netflix and say film and tv content is WAY WAY cheaper to produce and faster from conception to screen and tehy can barely turn a profit most years.

Games have a life-cycle on PS.... they release at full price, then get a discount, then a full sale..... then they might go on PSNow for a few months / temporary. Then they go on deep sale and then they eventually become part of the regular PSNow lineup or go to PS+. The subscription still makes money from the game ON TOP of the initial and massive day one sales.

You don't have to be a genius to see what makes more money.

You also have to feed a subscription constantly to avoid churn.
 

FritzJ92

Member
I think you could very easily point to Netflix and say film and tv content is WAY WAY cheaper to produce and faster from conception to screen and tehy can barely turn a profit most years.

Games have a life-cycle on PS.... they release at full price, then get a discount, then a full sale..... then they might go on PSNow for a few months / temporary. Then they go on deep sale and then they eventually become part of the regular PSNow lineup or go to PS+. The subscription still makes money from the game ON TOP of the initial and massive day one sales.

You don't have to be a genius to see what makes more money.

You also have to feed a subscription constantly to avoid churn.
What are you comparing Netflix to, to say that they can barely turn a profit. I feel like people fail to understand Netflix business model, and just assume they can’t turn a profit. Their business model is based on borrowing. No investor is actually worried about Netflix’s debt.
They are projected cash flow positive this year and most of Netflix’s problems was because it was a startup that needed capital to grow. Microsoft doesn’t face those issues because they still generate revenue from disc sales, console sales, MTX, and DLC. I really think Netflix isn’t the right company to benchmark Gamepass against. Similar services on definition but different business models.
 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Didn’t realise he’d been at Sony for so long. I’m not a linked-in stalker so wouldn’t have known.

Fair play to him.
 
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