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[SpiceRacz]

Someone whining about not being able to get good performance with 6 year old mid-range hardware has you hesitating on buying something new. Great logic.

Seems like a dumb thing to say, considering you don't know what ports I'm interested in or what I'm looking at buying.

 

[Wildebeest]

Never pre-order games on PC or buy them on day one before you can see how it plays. A lot of devs and publishers are simply laser focussed on console and see PC users as a free bonus cash piñata.

 

[64bitmodels]

Someone whining about not being able to get good performance with 6 year old mid-range hardware has you hesitating on buying something new. Great logic.

I have a 6650xt, my computer is midrange by today's standards. But the most used gpu on steam is a 1060... one of my friends uses a 1060 and he can't play any of the new games because of the stupid system requirements.

 

[Gaiff]

I'm surprised to hear the Sony PC ports are pretty pants.

Didn't they literally purchase Nixxes for PC ports? Who usually do an excellent job?

Nixxes ported 2 games so far; both Spider-Man.

I was never trying to say PC was the problem I'm saying developers can't optimize for shit.. all these ports had problems at launch whereas beforehand PC ports ran well (mostly... Arkham Knight was a thing)

On what world is Cyberpunk on PC a port? The game was some of the worst mess on console. You named a bunch of non-problems or problems that affected every platform then proceeded to act like this was only a PC thing.

 

[flying_sq]

I know this is probably a troll topic, but I haven't had any issues recently on PC. My PC is pretty powerful, and maybe I'm lucky because I think all those games suck and don't want to play them. The last console to PC port I played was the zombie biker one from Sony. I didn't have any issues with it. There was a graphical issue with MW2, but that ended up being an Nvidia driver issue they fixed with a hot patch. I recently got an Nvidia Shield because I was tired of my PS4 Pro and Xbox One bring incapable of playing back from my Plex server correctly. The only console I have and barely use is a Wii U.

 

[Interfectum]

PC Version:

PS5 Version:

 

[GenericUser]

Just join the mustard race

 

[RaySoft]

PS5 is the solution

Rather fixed hardware, but can't go wrong with PS5!

 

[Pejo]

Finally, it's about time we had a feel good PS5 owners thread. You guys have been mistreated for too long.

 

[twilo99]

The more devs MS acquires, the number of unoptimized PC games should go down proportionally.

 

[tmlDan]

The solution is to wait for a patch, I ain't playing at 30 fps.

every game so far has had a 60 fps option and no stuttering on any game.

 

[Halo is Back]

PC gaming is so amazing, you constantly get shitty port after shitty port.

 

[PaintTinJr]

You can precompile the shaders and ship them with the game. Devs dont do that.

The big problem is that your first impression of a game is as a stuttering disaster. You would think they would want to avoid that, but it is the 2022 game industry.

The problem is far more complicated than that, unfortunately, and differs depending on the graphics API used - Opengl, Vulkan, DirectX. The shaders are in most cases just text and can only be converted to valid executable GPU binaries for a specific GPU driver and GPU card combination - which inherently provides the digital signature that signs pre-compiled binaries, which tries to ensure you aren't loading a binary into the wrong GPU, or the right GPU that has the wrong memory mapping or API bindings/features from a newer driver solution.

Covering all GPU/driver combinations the user will have - in advance - on open platform hardware and preparing all solutions in advance isn't in the scope of PC devs, and especially when providing pre-compiled shaders at all increases the risk of hacks against the game for decompiling by exploiting a bug in these pre-compiled shader binaries, so it is always safer to force recompilation at run-time - on the CPU via the driver.

Vulkan provides an intermediate assembly language style shader intermediate format called SPIR-V which is faster to compile at run-time than GLSL (or DirectX HLSL) which are effectively text and need to do the lexer, parser, etc before being converted to the graphics driver's SPIR-V equivalent, but still needs to provide new binaries for every change of GPU/driver combination, so still favours run-time compilation for simplicity, and despite the improved stage reduction of compilation still struggles with the sheer volume of shaders (maybe 1 per material per model and maybe multiple per model per scene) needing compiled just-in-time.

Despite the slower shader compilation rate on OpenGL(and typically lower frame-rates) compared to Vulkan, the less-lean-and-mean OpenGL drivers hide frame-stutter much better with automatic algorithms that developers have to forego by using Vulkan, so the stutter might not always be from compilation issues, but from struggling to re-implement the algorithm benefits of using OpenGL that are absent in Vulkan to provide the developer with more control AFAIK.

 

[zcaa0g]

Loser error.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I got bad news for you if you think most people play on PC just for 60fps.

Thinking people buy 4090s to play at 60fps

 

[rodrigolfp]

Last month i spent a week

Stick to consoles if you are THAT slow.

 

[MikeM]

PC can’t brute force its way through shitty dev decisions. I have a PC and PS5 and honestly feel good knowing that I have choice. Console is usually consistent, something that PC sorely lacks.

Don’t preorder games and you won’t feel as burned. Some people still need to learn this.

 

[TGO]

I mean you'd expect every game to run flawlessly considering PC's are designed to play games first and foremost.....

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Isn't it ironic?

 

[The Janitor]

every game so far has had a 60 fps option and no stuttering on any game.

Yeah performance mode which means less eye candy. Also I don't know why everyone is acting like consoles get perfect versions all the time. Cyberpunk is an recent example.

 

[CamHostage]

Most games have a compilation run before you start the game.
That stops shader stuttering in its tracks.

Its up to devs to implement a shader comp run at the start of the game.
Nvidia/Intel/AMD/Apple could in theory make shader packs for games, but I really dont see that happening.
Devs just need to be smart about how/when their game compiles shaders.

From what I understand of the issue, I'm actually surprised by the patches that some developers do smartly come up...

Shader compilation is a natural challenge of the increasing complexity of shader usage (particularly as more shaders are generated from an algorithm instead of a general pattern.) Devs can combat this on console because they know the target hardware exactly, but PC is an ocean of hardware choices using one of several graphics APIs (sometimes even with support for multiple of these API options.)

As PaintTinJr lays out in great technical (and even legal) detail, it's an incredibly complicated issue. A few developers have been able to come up with solutions post-launch (I'm assuming in part thanks to data feedback from the volume of users playing the product, plus some of the usual bug fixes and such,) but those are per-game solutions. The larger problem doesn't get solved by pointing to the fix-cases and saying, "See, just do with they did, and do it before you launch."

What's with this new level of dev incompetence that they can't fix this? This has rarely been an issue in the past.

It wasn't an issue in the past because the past was a simpler time.

Games weren't pushing shader usage as hard in the past, or stacking shaders on top of each other as much, or using dynamic shaders with such deep computational time. Games keep advancing, but the challenges of making them look better are deeper than just skill and horsepower.

 

[damidu]

as a mainly console gamer,
i totally get it.
you pay thousands on a gpu and get third class treatment.

kind of disgusting really that devs think they can get away with it.
because at this point, zero chance they are not aware of this shit.

 

[Stuart360]

Like i said in another thread, i rarely get much loading stutter, even in UE4 games. I think because i play on a 60hz tv at 60fps, it helps with stutter with my gpu not being at 99% constantly like you will get with people playing at uinlocked framerates.
There have been quite a few games that have got review bombed on Steam over stuttering, and said game is perfect for me.
Now i havent tried this game, but CohCarnage swapped to DX11 and it seemed to get rid of most of th stuttering for him.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Imagine spending 1500 bucks on a GPU and then have the game run at like 40fps with insane stutters.

Can't even play that shit on ultra settings.

as a mainly console gamer,
i totally get it.
you pay thousands on a gpu and get third class treatment.

kind of disgusting really that devs think they can get away with it.
because at this point, zero chance they are not aware of this shit.

If anyone pays thousands on a GPU just for one shit game at launch, they deserve it.

 

[damidu]

If anyone pays thousands on a GPU just for one shit game at launch, they deserve it.

i mean, im pretty sure this is not the only game with shader stutter

 

[rodrigolfp]

i mean, im pretty sure this is not the only game with shader stutter

It's not. They are something like less than 0,00001% of the PC gaming library.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I will just spend my money on other PC games from developers that know what they're doing. Quality games to play are a dime a dozen a with plethora to pick from. I'm sure most of us on here have a sizable backlog of games we want to play that have long since released.

 

[HTK]

What I have learned with my 5950x 3090 2k GPU is 99% of my games look and run better than either of my consoles with higher frame rates

Plus once I see what the new AMD cards can do I am building another because for some even 2k for a GPU is peanuts

Really hard for me to play MW2/Warzone 2 on PS5. It's so nice looking on PC along with the performance, really hard to go back. But it's not for everyone. LOL

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Really hard for me to play MW2/Warzone 2 on PS5. It's so nice looking on PC along with the performance, really hard to go back. But it's not for everyone. LOL

Many people talk about how great the PS5 and Series X make games look (which for their power they do ok) but I am convinced most of those people have never seen these games on a monster PC as Warzone and even Battlefield 2042 are literally night and day differences

One of the best looking games I have ever seen in RDR2 with realism mods on a beastly PC

Ok so a few games stutter because of lazy devs and as much as I love my PS5/Series X nothing beats a game running on a nice PC

 

[Kiraly]

PC still blows everything out of the water with time and patience.

Imagine paying 60 dollars a year to be allowed to go online after you spent 80 dollars to buy a game.

 

[Crayon]

No (few? Haven't seen it in a bit) problems on Linux. I have played games before they solved it and it's ridiculous for single player games. Like... worst version of the game, sorry windozers.

 

[Magic Carpet]

The problem is far more complicated than that, unfortunately, and differs depending on the graphics API used - Opengl, Vulkan, DirectX. The shaders are in most cases just text and can only be converted to valid executable GPU binaries for a specific GPU driver and GPU card combination - which inherently provides the digital signature that signs pre-compiled binaries, which tries to ensure you aren't loading a binary into the wrong GPU, or the right GPU that has the wrong memory mapping or API bindings/features from a newer driver solution.

Covering all GPU/driver combinations the user will have - in advance - on open platform hardware and preparing all solutions in advance isn't in the scope of PC devs, and especially when providing pre-compiled shaders at all increases the risk of hacks against the game for decompiling by exploiting a bug in these pre-compiled shader binaries, so it is always safer to force recompilation at run-time - on the CPU via the driver.

Vulkan provides an intermediate assembly language style shader intermediate format called SPIR-V which is faster to compile at run-time than GLSL (or DirectX HLSL) which are effectively text and need to do the lexer, parser, etc before being converted to the graphics driver's SPIR-V equivalent, but still needs to provide new binaries for every change of GPU/driver combination, so still favours run-time compilation for simplicity, and despite the improved stage reduction of compilation still struggles with the sheer volume of shaders (maybe 1 per material per model and maybe multiple per model per scene) needing compiled just-in-time.

Despite the slower shader compilation rate on OpenGL(and typically lower frame-rates) compared to Vulkan, the less-lean-and-mean OpenGL drivers hide frame-stutter much better with automatic algorithms that developers have to forego by using Vulkan, so the stutter might not always be from compilation issues, but from struggling to re-implement the algorithm benefits of using OpenGL that are absent in Vulkan to provide the developer with more control AFAIK.

I still don't understand why it can't do this before you launch a game.
What would be needed hardware wise to solve the issue?

 

[nemiroff]

Sounds like PC alright.

Sounds like a knee-jerk drone latching on alright.

 

[nikos]

Get a better PC.

It does suck that we're mostly playing console games on PC though.

 

[rodrigolfp]

No (few? Haven't seen it in a bit) problems on Linux.

Vulkan?

 

[Crayon]

Vulkan?

Works with d11 and 12 if that's what you mean. If you mean how it's done... I have no idea. I know going through the proton layer affords a few extra opportunities to interfere with a game. Like how valve fixes up elden ring performance in like 3 days but only on Linux.

 

[TrebleShot]

WAIT WAIT WAIT,

Am I missing something, I see people using games that released at a minimum 2 years ago on PS platforms as a stick to beat over the PS5 head most people that wanted to play these games did when they released and if they wanted higher fidelity there were 60fps HIGH gfx patches at PS5 launch.

Now we have games launching on PS5 in a better state than PC actually playable and then they even have 30/60 options without any issues.

3k on a high end rig with stutters to play old games in 4k120? could never be me…
Better off going the other way and getting a steam deck to play at low res and settings on the go…

 

[rodrigolfp]

Works with d11 and 12 if that's what you mean. If you mean how it's done... I have no idea. I know going through the proton layer affords a few extra opportunities to interfere with a game. Like how valve fixes up elden ring performance in like 3 days but only on Linux.

How do you not have stutters on DX12 over proton?

 

[nemiroff]

When a frontloaded top of the pops console game craps out: "LOOK AT THAT PC! HAHA PC!"

When the other 99% of PC games seamlessly clicks in place: "..."

Sounds like sour grapes to me. With that said, clueless developers needs to get a clue and fix their shit.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Consoles: no written user reviews
Steam: actually shows user reviews
Studios: puts above 90% resources into console version and minimum effort into the pc version
GENIUS

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Get a better PC.

It does suck that we're mostly playing console games on PC though.

DF tested Callisto on a 12900K...

 

[Crayon]

How do you not have stutters on DX12 over proton?

I have not the foggiest. I can say that before it happened, The solution was being talked about and called 'fossilize'. I don't know if that turned out to be it or they win a different direction or what.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Console Master Race

 

[Skifi28]

The state of recent PC ports does make me want to keep away from anything high-end when upgrading, seems to be going to waste in many cases or just not being utilized properly. I don't want to spend 1k for a gpu and then see game runs like shit, I'll be sticking to mid-range stuff.

 

[64bitmodels]

The state of recent PC ports does make me want to keep away from anything high-end when upgrading, seems to be going to waste in many cases or just not being utilized properly. I don't want to spend 1k for a gpu and then see game runs like shit, I'll be sticking to mid-range stuff.

spend 500 on last gens highest end gpu and use the rest to buy a crapton of games

 

[FunkMiller]

I’m delighted I have both a Series X and Ps5. A much easier, more relaxed and straightforward way to go gaming.

 

[Crayon]

How do you not have stutters on DX12 over proton?

Oh, one more thing. I think on Windows it only happens on DX12. On Linux it was happening on everything because it all gets translated to Vulkan. So when they fixed that, it fixed everything. (Still don't know if it's really everything. I know I had stutters on almost everything and now I have on nothing.)

 

[SeriousCrayon]

This is the type of shit that makes me hesitate to drop money on a newer PC.

just get HeisenbergFX4 to buy it for you..apprently he has lots of peanuts, I mean cash lying around.

 

[SCB3]

Its better nwo, remember 2006-2011 ish with the shitty PC ports of console games and no controller support until Xbox made theirs official?

 

[EverydayBeast]

Gave pc gaming a chance a big time money pit.