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EA buys Codemasters for $1.2 billion

wipeout364

Member
I think it's not an unreasonable purchase by EA. EA has a history of racing games, Codemasters has a history of delivering solid racing titles, on time, quickly and I suspect at relatively low cost. EA has a history with licensed products, Codemasters has basically reduced itself to selling only licensed products (WRC, F1 and real world cars). EA already pays many of these car licences this gives them way more clout to force prices down.

Don't forget that EA acquired Respawn for 455 million; a studio with essentially two underperforming games and one IP at the time. But Both Codemasters and Respawn have two things that can't bought easily - A culture that gets shit done with good quality, on production schedule, and I think with a reasonable budget. These big publishers try to recreate that with new internal studios but they can never do it there is too much garbage brought in from the head office with these types of corporate created studios, too many soft employees not hungry enough to get shit done.

There are many intangibles that are not seen in a spreadsheet in corporate acquistions hence the ridiculous values of many companies on the stock market.
 
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PaintTinJr

Member
I'm wondering if Covid and brexit are partly influencing this deal for EA.

From what I can gather Canada and the US heavily subsidise game development and EA's Fifa has benefited from that over the years IIRC. With Covid hitting all economies I wonder if those benefits will continue for EA for Fifa.

If they moved Fifa development to Southam, a WTO trading UK would probably be able to offer those incentives, and all copies sold in the UK might also be more profitable if they were previously paying 20% EU import duty on all Uk copies sold.

AFAIK codies' Southam site is less 1/3 filled, and it used to be home of club football development, so scaling up to move Fifa development to the uk is probably viable.

Maybe even the success of the souls sub-genre means that EA see value in a Severance: Blade of Darkness reimagination. Or maybe with the ex-sony Driveclub staff and the impending ps5 geometry engine/async demands of this gen, EA see as a great acquisitions for fast hiring of great developers with real calibre on the PlayStation technology side.
 

yurinka

Member
ND has no IP.
They should be way way way cheaper than Codemasters.
No way, Naughty Dog has way more value than Codemasters.

Naughty Dog game sales combined for every year must be higher than Codemaster game sales combined, and on top of that outside Uncharted Woke Legacy all their other games got a ton of goty awards and top tier metacritic, all the IPs they created have been a huge success and they have the reputation of being one of the best studios in the world.

Codemaster IPs are mostly 2nd tier racing games (comparing sales to NFS, Forza, Gran Turismo, Mario Kart) and the most important one they work on (F1) isn't theirs, their team have a history of non-great metacritics and failed games or even shut down studios and many of the other IPs are only known by a few European retro old guys like us who did play Commodore Amiga or 8 bit computers but for a top tier publisher have basically zero value for the current worlwide market.

EA bought Codemasters for an overpriced price because Take Two was also bidding. I assume they paid basically to expand EA Sports and racing to also dominate F1, rally and a Forza/Gran Turismo-like game in addition to Need for Speed and -if not totally buried- Burnout plus some extra EA Play fillers like Operation Flashpoint or Overlord and some extra racing games.

They may have considered that with the extra budget, marketing and racing and sports games knowledge, expertise and insights that EA can provide they can highly boost Codemaster game sales while also adding some extra content EA Play current or potential future users may appreciate, while also getting some racing knowledge, expertise and insights from Codemasters that may help Need for Speed and maybe Burnout.

This give them an strategic lead in the sports genre over 2K, and now in the racing genre outside Mario Kart, Forza and Gran Turismo basically they only have Nacon (former Big Ben) as very distant competitor who has WRC, V-Rally, Test Drive or FlatOut and also some 2nd/3rd tier sports games like Rugby, Handball and some tennis or fishing games plus some tabletop IPs like Bloodbowl, Vampire: The Masquerade, Paranoia, Werewolf or Warhammer: Chaosbane. I assume EA (to support their racing team and get the monopoly of the genre plus many EA Play fillers) or Take 2 (to have a racing team) may buy Nacon in the future.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
No way, Naughty Dog has way more value than Codemasters.

Naughty Dog game sales combined for every year must be higher than Codemaster game sales combined, and on top of that outside Uncharted Woke Legacy all their other games got a ton of goty awards and top tier metacritic, all the IPs they created have been a huge success and they have the reputation of being one of the best studios in the world.

Codemaster IPs are mostly 2nd tier racing games (comparing sales to NFS, Forza, Gran Turismo, Mario Kart) and the most important one they work on (F1) isn't theirs, their team have a history of non-great metacritics and failed games or even shut down studios and many of the other IPs are only known by a few European retro old guys like us who did play Commodore Amiga or 8 bit computers but for a top tier publisher have basically zero value for the current worlwide market.

EA bought Codemasters for an overpriced price because Take Two was also bidding. I assume they paid basically to expand EA Sports and racing to also dominate F1, rally and a Forza/Gran Turismo-like game in addition to Need for Speed and -if not totally buried- Burnout plus some extra EA Play fillers like Operation Flashpoint or Overlord and some extra racing games.

They may have considered that with the extra budget, marketing and racing and sports games knowledge, expertise and insights that EA can provide they can highly boost Codemaster game sales while also adding some extra content EA Play current or potential future users may appreciate, while also getting some racing knowledge, expertise and insights from Codemasters that may help Need for Speed and maybe Burnout.

This give them an strategic lead in the sports genre over 2K, and now in the racing genre outside Mario Kart, Forza and Gran Turismo basically they only have Nacon (former Big Ben) as very distant competitor who has WRC, V-Rally, Test Drive or FlatOut and also some 2nd/3rd tier sports games like Rugby, Handball and some tennis or fishing games plus some tabletop IPs like Bloodbowl, Vampire: The Masquerade, Paranoia, Werewolf or Warhammer: Chaosbane. I assume EA or Take 2 may buy Nacon in the future.
That indeed counts for the bid but owned IPs > the studio talent in terms of market value.

ND has 0 (zero) IP no matter how talented they are.

It can even be a IP not used for years... it still has a value... Codemaster has several IPs including big racing IPs and non-racing IPs.
 
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yurinka

Member
That indeed counts for the bid but owned IPs > the studio talent in terms of market value.

ND has 0 (zero) IP no matter how talented they are.
Top tier level in gaming history and current market studio, creators of some of the biggest IPs in gaming history >>>>>>>>> 4 or 5 AA average studios and some 2nd or 3rd tier IPs (what Codemaster has)
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Gaming history and current top tier studio talent, creators of some of the biggest IPs in gaming history >>>>>>>>> 4 or 5 AA average studios and some 2nd or 3rd tier IPs (what Codemaster has)
ND is cheaper because there is no IP... ND probably value $100 million or so.

Codemaster is expensive because there is several IPs... $1 billion.

If you have the IP you can contract any talent studio do make the game... if you don’t have the IP no talent studio will help you unless you create a new IP but that is another conversation and add a lot of risk and investing.
 
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00_Zer0

Member
Ny7dEwC.jpg
Never gets old.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Ridiculous. Thats the end of them.

They will plague their games with Pay to win schemes and everything will be open world and generic.

Then, they will shut down. :messenger_poop:

What a fucking bastard company. Fuck EA
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
GoldenGoodnaturedDragonfly-max-14mb.gif


That's a lot
 

OrtizTwelve

Member
1.2 billion for a company whose games are almost all entirely bargain bin video games? Seems like EA overpaid.

Likely will turn out to be a bad investment. F1 is the only real popular game they have and even then it's always done mediocre sales wise.

Seems like Microsoft's deal was a STEAL.
 
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FStubbs

Member
The huge cost is probably the licensing fees. Codemasters not only have F1, they also recently picked up the WRC license.

Although their Ego engine looks relatviely nice, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the games running on Frostbite.*

*assuming EA doesn't gut them within 5 years

Eh that's probably it then. They must feel the licenses are worth the $1.2 billion.
 
ITT a bunch of people who have little to no understanding of codemasters worth and somehow feel as if they know better than people paid lots of money to make literally billion dollar decisions like these.
 

yurinka

Member
ND is cheaper because there is no IP... ND probably value $100 million or so.

Codemaster is expensive because there is several IPs... $1 billion.
Minecraft or Star Wars IPs are highly valuable. Operation Flashpoint, Grid, Overlord or Dizzy aren't worth a shit for EA.

The most valuable IP Codemaster has been working on is F1, and Codemaster don't own it. EA could have bought the F1 license and made their own F1 game, but they bought Codemasters because already are experienced on it. EA don't care about Codemaster 'realistic' arcade racers because already have way bigger IPs like Need for Speed or Burnout (or even Road Rash, would be great to see a new one made by former Motorstorm devs), so very likely bought these as EA Play fillers and to have these teams to support their already existing arcade racing IPs.

Maybe the only Codemasters IP they see as somewhat valuable is Project Cars because EA doesn't have a simulator like that to compete with Forza and Gran Turismo and it already has some name even if has way lower sales compared to Forza, GT or NFS, so EA could make it more competitive thanks to extra budget, marketing and knowledge.

Codemasters team have also talent for rally games but their sales and IPs are too small and poor for EA, so they will very likely put them to work on a new rally IP full of licensed stuff as they do in other sports games like FIFA, NFL, NHL, NBA Live, etc. plus give them budget, marketing and knowlege from their EA sports and racing teams.

So other than to put the previous Codemaster games on EA Play as fillers, I bet the only Codemaster brand that will see new games will be Project Cars. Then they will continue with F1 -with extra licenses for whatever is needed-, a new rally IP with tons of licenses, and work to support Criterion on the next Need for Speed (and Burnout if they ever revive it) games.

And well, other than that -maybe this is the most important reason other than the extra dev talent and a few interesting IPs or EA Play fillers- they make a strategic move to secure they continue being the top sports and racing publisher, now almost with a monopoly, while blocking/difficulting competition from Take 2.

So the value of this purchase for EA goes beyond these particular IPs or studio talents, maybe the more important thing for EA is that -mostly outside NBA2K- will almost have the sports and racing monopoly, which will be key for them when negotiating partnerships with Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Apple, Google, retailers and Steam, or when competing with EA Play against other subscriptions.
 
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Hugare

Member
Ghost ones have been good in my opinion. What's wrong with them in your eyes?
There nothing wrong with them in my eyes, but in my hands theres a lot

Don't like how weighty cars feel in their games. Driving in general doesnt feel good. Drifting doesnt feel good, the sense of speed isnt there ...

Most Wanted (remake) was the last NSF game that actually felt good to play imo.

Besides, they made 4 NFS in a row, and the franchise feels very stale right now. Would be good to see what Codemasters vision would be for the franchise.

Maybe they can take turns like Treyarch and Infinity Ward for COD
 

TheAssist

Member
The last racing game dev that I really enjoyed was Criterion. Which were also bought by EA.
Luckily Burnout is as grea...wait a second.....
 

ethomaz

Banned
Minecraft or Star Wars IPs are highly valuable. Operation Flashpoint, Grid, Overlord or Dizzy aren't worth a shit for EA.

The most valuable IP Codemaster has been working on is F1, and Codemaster don't own it. EA could have bought the F1 license and made their own F1 game, but they bought Codemasters because already are experienced on it. EA don't care about Codemaster 'realistic' arcade racers because already have way bigger IPs like Need for Speed or Burnout (or even Road Rash, would be great to see a new one made by former Motorstorm devs), so very likely bought these as EA Play fillers and to have these teams to support their already existing arcade racing IPs.

Maybe the only Codemasters IP they see as somewhat valuable is Project Cars because EA doesn't have a simulator like that to compete with Forza and Gran Turismo and it already has some name even if has way lower sales compared to Forza, GT or NFS, so EA could make it more competitive thanks to extra budget, marketing and knowledge.

Codemasters team have also talent for rally games but their sales and IPs are too small and poor for EA, so they will very likely put them to work on a new rally IP full of licensed stuff as they do in other sports games like FIFA, NFL, NHL, NBA Live, etc. plus give them budget, marketing and knowlege from their EA sports and racing teams.

So other than to put the previous Codemaster games on EA Play as fillers, I bet the only Codemaster brand that will see new games will be Project Cars. Then they will continue with F1 -with extra licenses for whatever is needed-, a new rally IP with tons of licenses, and work to support Criterion on the next Need for Speed (and Burnout if they ever revive it) games.
There are some few IPs (I did not list all) Codemaster has.

Let's put that way.... EA had to pay that due the IPs the company owns.

Dizzy
Micro Machines
TOCA
Colin McRae Rally
Operation Flashpoint
F1 (licence rights?)
Project Cars
Grid
Dirt
Overload
Brian Lara
Cannon Fooder

I mean I just listed the top of the iceberg.
ND continue having 0 IP value.
 

sainraja

Member
There nothing wrong with them in my eyes, but in my hands theres a lot

Don't like how weighty cars feel in their games. Driving in general doesnt feel good. Drifting doesnt feel good, the sense of speed isnt there ...

Most Wanted (remake) was the last NSF game that actually felt good to play imo.

Besides, they made 4 NFS in a row, and the franchise feels very stale right now. Would be good to see what Codemasters vision would be for the franchise.

Maybe they can take turns like Treyarch and Infinity Ward for COD

Gotcha. I actually like them though so would be okay with the alternating scenario you mentioned. However, Most Wanted was also made by Criterion games (originally Burnout people) who are now Ghost games (if not everyone left.)
 

wvnative

Member
Hmmmm, was this done for the talent or IP?

My thinking is we have way more potential development teams available for a new burnout now.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
Sorry to hear, EA don't have a good track record with the companies they acquire.

Still salty with the destiny of Viceral Games. 🤬
 

Hugare

Member
There are some few IPs (I did not list all) Codemaster has.


ND continue having 0 IP value.
Honestly, look at this shit

Besides the racing games and Operation Flashpoint, I bet that you had to google to find out about the other IPs

How many of those have sold more than 10M copies? Or reached a MC score of more than 90?

TLOU and Uncharted alone sold 2x more than those games combined, and you telling me that fucking Codemasters would be more valuable?

"ND has 0 IP value", gotta be trolling. Microsoft would pay 4 billion for Uncharted alone.

Quantity ≠ Quality (or value)
 
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yurinka

Member
There are some few IPs (I did not list all) Codemaster has.


ND continue having 0 IP value.
Micro Machines, TOCA, Colin McRae, F1 and Brian Lara are licensed IPs, Codemasters didn't own them and if desired EA could go an license them without Codemasters. All the Codemaster owned IPs are 2nd or 3rd tier IPs with no interest for a top tier AAA publisher EA.

As I mentioned maybe only Project Cars has potential to use them in new EA games, very likely putting there a lot of related licensed championships, racers and brands. And they could also go and license everything rally related without Codemasters and put EA level budget and marketing values.

The 8 and 16 bit IPs may have some value for a small indie team but for a top publisher like EA they have zero value.

They weren't buying IPs, they were mostly buying racing game manpower and expertise plus blocking competition from Take 2 and securing/expand monopoly on sports and racing genre, plus getting EA fillers. Out of all Codemasters IPs I highly doubt they may be interesting on developing more than maybe a couple.

You didn't list more Codemaster IPs because they are failed games that didn't get a sequel and nobody knows them or are licensed games whose licensor has the IP of that brand and not Codemasters.

And IPs are only one of many things that give value to a company. There are ton more. Like the revenue/profit/market share that the company/studio generates, its brand value or manpower & expertise.

Naughty Dog guarantees more sales/revenue/profits, GOTY awards and Metacritic than Codemasters. Unlike Codemasters, Naughty Dog are the best ones of their genre (and in the overall gaming history) by any metric. Unlike Codemasters, every new IP created Naughty Dog has been a huge hit by any metric.

Doesn't matter if Naughty Dog own their IPs or not, they are more valuable than Codemasters.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Honestly, look at this shit

Besides the racing games and Operation Flashpoint, I bet that you had to google to find out about the other IPs

How many of those have sold more than 10M copies? Or reached a MC score of more than 90?

TLOU and Uncharted alone sold 2x more than those games combined, and you telling me that fucking Codemasters would be more valuable?

Quantity ≠ Quality (or value)
TLOU and Uncharted are not ND IPs... c'mon.

Just in IP alone Codemasters values several times more than ND.
IP is what you pay more in these transactions... unless there is assets involved (buildings).

In terms of Talent or Relevance you can say ND value $100m while Codemasters value $30m... that is it... the rest is IP ownership that ND has 0 (the last ND IP was Crash but they sold it before become a Sony studio).

All the property value ND has is owned by Sony.
 
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Hugare

Member
TLOU and Uncharted are not ND IPs... c'mon.

Just in IP alone Codemasters values several times more than ND.

IP is what you pay more in these transactions... unless there is assets involved (buildings).
It's hard to discuss about it because they are a Sony studio since ever, and they would never be sold. But they created those franchises from scratch. So if they were in the same situation as Codemasters, they would probably be the owners of said IPs.

Again, not even comparing to ND, Codemasters franchises are not 1.2b worth. C'mon.

How many copies did Dizzy, Micro Machines, Brian Liara or whatever sold?

They are buying it for their racing games, that arent even that relevant anymore
 
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ethomaz

Banned
It's hard to discuss about it because they are a Sony studio since ever, and they would never be sold. But they created those franchises from scratch. So if they were in the same situation as Codemasters, they would probably be the owners of said IPs.

Again, not even comparing to ND, Codemasters franchises are not 1.2b worth. C'mon.

How many copies did Dizzy, Micro Machines, Brian Liara or whatever sold?

They are buying it for their racing games, that arent even that relevant anymore
They were not Sony since ever.
They created Crash and others franchises before... they owned Crash and these franchise... but they sold all them because they needed money.

After that Sony brought them after PS2 launch (2001)... it was probably a bargain because the company didn't own any IP anymore.

I love them and I think they create the best games in the market but they doesn't have any intelectual property value... they have zero IP... Sony owns all IPs.

A company that owns 1 IP already values more than ND... Codemasters has several IPs.
That is the same reason Zenimax costed $7 billion... IP ownership.

Honestly, look at this shit

Besides the racing games and Operation Flashpoint, I bet that you had to google to find out about the other IPs

How many of those have sold more than 10M copies? Or reached a MC score of more than 90?

TLOU and Uncharted alone sold 2x more than those games combined, and you telling me that fucking Codemasters would be more valuable?

"ND has 0 IP value", gotta be trolling. Microsoft would pay 4 billion for Uncharted alone.

Quantity ≠ Quality (or value)
MS should talk with Sony.
ND has nothing to do with Uncharted IP business.... it is a Sony ownership... so MS would pay 4 billion for Sony and ND won't get any cent from it.

ND has 0 IP valuable in the market.
Codemasters has several IPs that are valuable in the market.

How much do you think Bungie without Halo IP valued when they left MS? Because I know if they had Halo IP they should value billions.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Another example.

MS paid $billions for the Mahjong company or the Minecraft IP?

That is how valuable IPs are... even old IPs are valuable at $ millions maybe 100s of $ millions.
 

SirTerry-T

Member
Minecraft or Star Wars IPs are highly valuable. Operation Flashpoint, Grid, Overlord or Dizzy aren't worth a shit for EA.

The most valuable IP Codemaster has been working on is F1, and Codemaster don't own it. EA could have bought the F1 license and made their own F1 game, but they bought Codemasters because already are experienced on it. EA don't care about Codemaster 'realistic' arcade racers because already have way bigger IPs like Need for Speed or Burnout (or even Road Rash, would be great to see a new one made by former Motorstorm devs), so very likely bought these as EA Play fillers and to have these teams to support their already existing arcade racing IPs.

Maybe the only Codemasters IP they see as somewhat valuable is Project Cars because EA doesn't have a simulator like that to compete with Forza and Gran Turismo and it already has some name even if has way lower sales compared to Forza, GT or NFS, so EA could make it more competitive thanks to extra budget, marketing and knowledge.

Codemasters team have also talent for rally games but their sales and IPs are too small and poor for EA, so they will very likely put them to work on a new rally IP full of licensed stuff as they do in other sports games like FIFA, NFL, NHL, NBA Live, etc. plus give them budget, marketing and knowlege from their EA sports and racing teams.

So other than to put the previous Codemaster games on EA Play as fillers, I bet the only Codemaster brand that will see new games will be Project Cars. Then they will continue with F1 -with extra licenses for whatever is needed-, a new rally IP with tons of licenses, and work to support Criterion on the next Need for Speed (and Burnout if they ever revive it) games.

And well, other than that -maybe this is the most important reason other than the extra dev talent and a few interesting IPs or EA Play fillers- they make a strategic move to secure they continue being the top sports and racing publisher, now almost with a monopoly, while blocking/difficulting competition from Take 2.

So the value of this purchase for EA goes beyond these particular IPs or studio talents, maybe the more important thing for EA is that -mostly outside NBA2K- will almost have the sports and racing monopoly, which will be key for them when negotiating partnerships with Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Apple, Google, retailers and Steam, or when competing with EA Play against other subscriptions.
When the F1 license was up for renewal, EA wanted no part of it. I'm sure if they did they could have easily outbid a UK developer.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
Really shows you how much of a bargain MS got Zenimax for
I'm not sure if it would fall into the bargain bin category, but I don't think MS overpaid for Zenimax

I think you might be seeing a bit of a trickle down effect from that Zenimax sale. I have a hard time believing that 1.2 billion is not on the high side for Codemasters.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
This is a readable way for ea to expand its reach, the purchase makes sense for them.
Nice also many of games will reach game pass....
 
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