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[-tetsuo-]

as I understood it, the reason you guys like the PC dragon age was that you can be a nerd and play it on the keyboard with your little mouse. I want to sit on the couch, so I don't give a fuck. the whole point is I don't care. 99% of people don't care if they can assemble a PC that outperforms a console. the consoles are fine. you guys are

Spoiler

fucking nerds

the master race but most people are just normal.

do you go around in real life talking about LOL and noobs without getting your face caved in?

So..... you withdraw your argument, then?

 

[water_wendi]

What? I'm pretty sure it means exactly what he thinks it means.

What are your methods for objectively judging a platform? Because the PC comes out on top of all of these.

Visual Performance
Breadth of input methods
Selection of titles
and
Moddability of said titles
Basic Versatility

Backwards compatibility.. even with other systems (Playstation 1 and 2, Saturn, SegaCD, etc).

 

[CecilRousso]

Yeah, I'm hoping the PS3 version runs a little smoother this time around since that will probably be my platform of choice. A game that looked like THAT had no excuse to be so choppy.

DA1 actually has an excuse for that - it wasn´t supposed to be a console game. Not untill EA bought Bioware. Then some suit suddenly decided that not only should a game that from the beginning was developed for the PC suddenly be ported to consoles, the PC version should also be delayed until those ports were done.

DA2 on the other hand, will have no excuse for it.

 

[HorribleJames]

What? I'm pretty sure it means exactly what he thinks it means.

What are your methods for objectively judging a platform? Because the PC comes out on top of all of these.

Visual Performance
Breadth of input methods
Selection of titles
and
Moddability of said titles
Basic Versatility

the lay person may not want to deal with the

-Cost
-Possible complications/various compatibility issues
-Various other issues

that are all part and parcel of high end PC gaming. For the elite, these things are rarely a major problem; for the average person, a uniform box that works exactly the same for everyone -- and is affordable -- is simply easier. Plus.. controller couch.

 

[water_wendi]

Plus.. controller couch.

i know right? Its physically impossible to play computer games from the comfort of a recliner or couch using a wireless keyboard and mouse. If only wireless technology would make its way to computers.. the person that did that would be a billionaire.

 

[-tetsuo-]

the lay person may not want to deal with the

-Cost
-Possible complications/various compatibility issues
-Various other issues

that are all part and parcel of high end PC gaming. For the elite, these things are rarely a major problem; for the average person, a uniform box that works exactly the same for everyone -- and is affordable -- is simply easier. Plus.. controller couch.

Please go further with the various compatibility issues. I would also like to hear about other issues. That are various.

 

[WanderingWind]

Plus.. controller couch.

When it comes to computer gaming, I am the layperson. I can barely do anything with a PC. Even I've managed to take the one plug thingy and plug it into my TV so that the magic picture works on my screen. I played Dragon Age from my couch. I played Just Cause 2 from my couch...with a controller.

This is a non-argument.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

the lay person may not want to deal with the

-Cost
-Possible complications/various compatibility issues
-Various other issues

that are all part and parcel of high end PC gaming. For the elite, these things are rarely a major problem; for the average person, a uniform box that works exactly the same for everyone -- and is affordable -- is simply easier. Plus.. controller couch.

So in other words you just have memes to combat why pc gaming can be considered objectively better. A lot of those aren't even true.

 

[Snuggles]

Why not bring the console versions of the game up to parity with the PC version as far as controls are concerned instead of nerfing the PC version?

Definitely.
It's kind of funny in a sad way that some people seem to be arguing against this, but it is possible for everyone to be happy in the end. Their biggest mistake with the console versions of origins was trying to translate the PC gameplay to a control pad instead of distancing the console ports from the PC version and rebuilding the gameplay so it works. It looks like they're doing the same thing with the sequel but reversed. It's too bad because I like Bioware and I like Origins and I'd like to see the franchise thrive.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

HorribleJames you can't still be serious, and I'm starting to wonder if you ever were.

In case you are:

Definitely.
It's kind of funny in a sad way that some people seem to be arguing against this, but it is possible for everyone to be happy in the end. Their biggest mistake with the console versions of origins was trying to translate the PC gameplay to a control pad instead of distancing the console ports from the PC version and rebuilding the gameplay so it works. It looks like they're doing the same thing with the sequel but reversed. It's too bad because I like Bioware and I like Origins and I'd like to see the franchise thrive.

Yeah they basically did a poor job on the console version by most accounts. Instead of considering how best to sort out the control issues they shoehorned them into a controller, dropped texture res sharply instead of optimising for the platforms and then dropped the difficulty levels down a notch instead of spending some time thinking about the strengths and weaknesses of the different controls and balancing enemies and encounters accordingly.

And it is a shame. A damned shame.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

How do you get that scene to happen? :lol

 

[ntropy]

How do you get that scene to happen? :lol

http://social.bioware.com/project/1281/

 

[WanderingWind]

How do you get that scene to happen? :lol

It's from some guys trailer. Another highlight from said trailer; Duncan wearing a thong ordering the viewer to "submit to the taint."

 

[brain_stew]

the lay person may not want to deal with the

-Cost
-Possible complications/various compatibility issues
-Various other issues

that are all part and parcel of high end PC gaming. For the elite, these things are rarely a major problem; for the average person, a uniform box that works exactly the same for everyone -- and is affordable -- is simply easier. Plus.. controller couch.

Why did you totally ignore the three qualifiers I gave? I said it is objectively the best platform if you have the time, money and inclination to invest into it. So I don't see where any of your "issues" come about and the first one is hugely debatable, I personally picked up the PC as a gaming platform to save me money in the long run. I needed a new desktop anyway, so why not add a GPU and be able to get 12 recent "AAA" games for $50 and never have to worry about paying my Xbox Live Gold fee again.

If you have the time to run a Google search or check the Steam forums for the game you're buying, you won't have any compatibility problems, certainly not with games from the last 4 years, which is all the back catalogue a modern console offers you anyway. That you may have to spend 5 minutes configuringin order to get a 20 year old game working is sure as hell better than never being able to play it in the first place.


Look, I'd never claim the PC was suited as the primary gaming platform for everyone but there's little to argue that its the platform which will reward you the most, if you put enough in. There's more than 100k games that can play on a modern PC and basically all of them can be played with the input device of your choice, at the resolution of your choice and with the level of performance you judge adequate. It absolutely does objectively have the most to offer.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

It's from some guys trailer. Another highlight from said trailer; Duncan wearing a thong ordering the viewer to "submit to the taint."

Incidentally it was Ventrue the OP who was responsible for this piece of Dragon Age greatness.

 

[Snuggles]

Wasn't that floating Alistar head GIF from the PC version? If so, that's another reason to appreciate it.

 

[water_wendi]

http://social.bioware.com/project/1281/

A Slap Morrigan mod? :lol Mod of the Forever.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Lot's of PC fanboyism going on in this thread.

I get a chuckle at those trying to say it's trivial to hook up a computer to a TV. It's not easy - not easy enough for the types of people who don't visit Neogaf to bother trying to do it. Let's get real - if you visit Neogaf you're more interested in gaming than 90% of the world's population will ever be. You're motivated to do interesting things like hooking up your computer to a TV to play with a wireless KB/mouse (like that's comfortable on your lap?). You're going out of your way to do things that a "normal" person would never dream of doing. A normal person goes and buys a 360 and says "fuck that noise, that's way too much work" instead of doing all the things the PC diehards would do to play a game on their plasma TV.

You're giving a lot of grief to HorribleJames for no reason. He's right.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Lot's of PC fanboyism going on in this thread.

I get a chuckle at those trying to say it's trivial to hook up a computer to a TV. It's not easy - not easy enough for the types of people who don't visit Neogaf to bother trying to do it. Let's get real - if you visit Neogaf you're more interested in gaming than 90% of the world's population will ever be. You're motivated to do interesting things like hooking up your computer to a TV to play with a wireless KB/mouse (like that's comfortable on your lap?). You're going out of your way to do things that a "normal" person would never dream of doing. A normal person goes and buys a 360 and says "fuck that noise, that's way too much work" instead of doing all the things the PC nuts would do to play a game on their plasma TV.

You're giving a lot of grief to HorribleJames for no reason. He's right.

I hook my PC up to my TV by removing the HDMI cable plugged into my 360 and plugging it into my video card.

 

[Snuggles]

You're giving a lot of grief to HorribleJames for no reason. He's right.

I think he's asking for it with lines like

as I understood it, the reason you guys like the PC dragon age was that you can be a nerd and play it on the keyboard with your little mouse

Also, the dumbass nonsense about sex lives is about as weak of an argument you can make on a gaming message board.
Also also, maybe average people don't do it but hooking up a PC to a TV isn't exactly a gargantuan task. If you push the input button on my TV one of the option under TV and HDMI is PC. All I need is like a wire and a program on my comp and I'm set.

 

[brain_stew]

Hooking up a modern PC works in exactly the same way as hooking up a modern console does, you simply plug in one (HDMI) cable for both video and audio, that's it, it should even auto configure the resolution for you which the 360 won't even do. Its literally the exact same cable that you use with your consoles and is in no way anymore difficult thank hooking up a monitor, its easier in fact.

As for being harsh on HorribleJames, heck I think we went easy on him and the bloody sly bastard has managed to escape a ban thus far. Plenty have permanently lost their accounts for much less.

 

[EviLore]

Lot's of PC fanboyism going on in this thread.

I get a chuckle at those trying to say it's trivial to hook up a computer to a TV. It's not easy - not easy enough for the types of people who don't visit Neogaf to bother trying to do it. Let's get real - if you visit Neogaf you're more interested in gaming than 90% of the world's population will ever be. You're motivated to do interesting things like hooking up your computer to a TV to play with a wireless KB/mouse (like that's comfortable on your lap?). You're going out of your way to do things that a "normal" person would never dream of doing. A normal person goes and buys a 360 and says "fuck that noise, that's way too much work" instead of doing all the things the PC diehards would do to play a game on their plasma TV.

You're giving a lot of grief to HorribleJames for no reason. He's right.

Buy hdmi cable. Plug one end of hdmi cable into video card and the other end into tv or receiver.

 

[WanderingWind]

You're giving a lot of grief to HorribleJames for no reason. He's right.

Yeah, you may want to read back a page or so before saying that.

And I'm sorry, but your primary argument is just as odd. It's literally just as easy as hooking up a PC to a monitor as it is to a TV. There is no difference. There are more and more people rocking this setup due to things like Netflix Instant than ever before. It's going to become the norm, sooner than later.

Regardless, the type of person who plays something called Dragon Age is probably the same type who would know at least enough about gaming to be able to figure it out.

 

[gregor7777]

Lot's of PC fanboyism going on in this thread.

I get a chuckle at those trying to say it's trivial to hook up a computer to a TV. It's not easy - not easy enough for the types of people who don't visit Neogaf to bother trying to do it. Let's get real - if you visit Neogaf you're more interested in gaming than 90% of the world's population will ever be. You're motivated to do interesting things like hooking up your computer to a TV to play with a wireless KB/mouse (like that's comfortable on your lap?). You're going out of your way to do things that a "normal" person would never dream of doing. A normal person goes and buys a 360 and says "fuck that noise, that's way too much work" instead of doing all the things the PC diehards would do to play a game on their plasma TV.

You're giving a lot of grief to HorribleJames for no reason. He's right.

Sorry, but I'm not sure when the last time you tried all of this was but these days it is literally just as easy as plugging in your 360 or PS3. It's one HDMI connection, and that's it. I use my 360 wireless controller also. Just hit the guide button and it's on.

It's ridiculously easy to do. Boom - 1080p comfy couch controller gaming.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Lot's of PC fanboyism going on in this thread.

I get a chuckle at those trying to say it's trivial to hook up a computer to a TV. It's not easy - not easy enough for the types of people who don't visit Neogaf to bother trying to do it. Let's get real - if you visit Neogaf you're more interested in gaming than 90% of the world's population will ever be. You're motivated to do interesting things like hooking up your computer to a TV to play with a wireless KB/mouse (like that's comfortable on your lap?). You're going out of your way to do things that a "normal" person would never dream of doing. A normal person goes and buys a 360 and says "fuck that noise, that's way too much work" instead of doing all the things the PC diehards would do to play a game on their plasma TV.

You're giving a lot of grief to HorribleJames for no reason. He's right.

Get computer
Plug computer HDMI into receiver
Plug Receiver HDMI into TV
You're now a genius of computer tech

 

[cartman414]

Not to mention that Dragon Age on PC has non-graphical advantages, like isometric view a la Baldur's Gate, which has been the focal complaint regarding the article. HJ is apparently blind here.

This had better not be true btw, otherwise Bioware have really sold their soul.

Yeah, you may want to read back a page or so before saying that.

And I'm sorry, but your primary argument is just as odd. It's literally just as easy as hooking up a PC to a monitor as it is to a TV. There is no difference. There are more and more people rocking this setup due to things like Netflix Instant than ever before. It's going to become the norm, sooner than later.

Regardless, the type of person who plays something called Dragon Age is probably the same type who would know at least enough about gaming to be able to figure it out.

There are plenty of pseudo-casuals who have played Dragon Age thanks to its presence on consoles, who either aren't aware of the finer details, or actually prefer playing it on console.

 

[brain_stew]

Sorry, but I'm not sure when the last time you tried all of this was but these days it is literally just as easy as plugging in your 360 or PS3. It's one HDMI connection, and that's it. I use my 360 wireless controller also. Just hit the guide button and it's on.

It's ridiculously easy to do. Boom - 1080p comfy couch controller gaming.

And boy is is it sweet!

 

[Glix]

Yeah, you may want to read back a page or so before saying that.

And I'm sorry, but your primary argument is just as odd. It's literally just as easy as hooking up a PC to a monitor as it is to a TV. There is no difference. There are more and more people rocking this setup due to things like Netflix Instant than ever before. It's going to become the norm, sooner than later.

Regardless, the type of person who plays something called Dragon Age is probably the same type who would know at least enough about gaming to be able to figure it out.

Yeah, for real. Tons of people come over and bug out about my setup. I tell them that they need to go buy a HDMI, and a wireless keyboard/mouse, and they, literally, don't believe me.

"No way man, its gotta have some other shit that you have to do..." etc...

Its so easy, its a joke.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

The funny part is that it's never been very hard anyway. Old video cards used svideo outputs rather than HDMI but it's not like you had to sacrifice a chicken and bathe your naked body in its blood under the moonlight to get it happening. I mean, unless you really wanted.

 

[cartman414]

Yeah, for real. Tons of people come over and bug out about my setup. I tell them that they need to go buy a HDMI, and a wireless keyboard/mouse, and they, literally, don't believe me.

"No way man, its gotta have some other shit that you have to do..." etc...

Its so easy, its a joke.

Yeah, really. You can even do it with a laptop.

Anyways, I don't know whether to be saddened or outraged that this thread went off on this kind of tangent, because again, Dragon Age's advantages on PC aren't limited to the usual PC > console graphic stuff, and have a lot to do with the interface and overhead view option, the latter of which this very thread was about.

 

[CecilRousso]

You really have to laugh at the old "comfy couch" argument :lol . Everyone who can afford HDTV, consoles and PC´s suitable for gaming should also be able to afford to sit comfortable when they PC games.

And boy is is it sweet!

Indeed it is. I played through the whole Tales of Monkey Island series on my 40" HDTV from my very very comfy couch. That was a very pleasant experience.

 

[HorribleJames]

maybe you guys are right and it really is easy to hook up a tv to a computer and use it in the same way as a console and the way the average person thinks about it hasn't caught up yet. maybe they will, or never will. or maybe what we'll end up with one central media device rather than a console and a pc and this and that.

as for "various issues", I happen to know that even in this day and age there are many more technical issues playing games on a pc than on a console. on a console, they work 100% of the time -- or the console is defective. any game that comes out on a PC has a tech support forum full of people trying to sort out their gremlins. and then there are times when a PC game "half works". I'm familiar with computers, I'm not an expert, but I'm at minimum a lay person, and I can tell you that star craft 2 crashes once in a while, and it's annoying as piss. I can count on one hand the number of times my 360 has frozen in the last 5 years, and 3 of them were because the console RR'd.

and for my posts, like I said, I responded negatively to being "LOL'd" at and went too far in the other direction.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

it's objectively better? I prefer sitting back on a couch with a controller. sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse isn't relaxing.

How does this comfy couch bullshit continue on?

I guess I'm just imagining things when I play some of my PC games in 1920x1080 on my 47" LCD from the comfort of my couch! I must be crazy or something.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

maybe you guys are right and it really is easy to hook up a tv to a computer and use it in the same way as a console and the way the average person thinks about it hasn't caught up yet. maybe they will, or never will. or maybe what we'll end up with one central media device rather than a console and a pc and this and that.

as for "various issues", I happen to know that even in this day and age there are many more technical issues playing games on a pc than on a console. on a console, they work 100% of the time -- or the console is defective. any game that comes out on a PC has a tech support forum full of people trying to sort out their gremlins. and then there are times when a PC game "half works". I'm familiar with computers, I'm not an expert, but I'm at minimum a lay person, and I can tell you that star craft 2 crashes once in a while, and it's annoying as piss. I can count on one hand the number of times my 360 has frozen in the last 5 years, and 3 of them were because the console RR'd.

and for my posts, like I said, I responded negatively to being "LOL'd" at and went too far in the other direction.

Are you sure you want to say console games work 100% of the time? Because there have been a lot of games needing patches or having patches that significantly fuck up the games worse and you can't do anything about them.... And it's not maybe, it is easy. You're using the same damn wires to hook up your consoles. Come on now.

 

[freddy]

I can count on one hand the number of times my 360 has frozen in the last 5 years, and 3 of them were because the console RR'd.

LOL

Spoiler

Rage incoming?

Also just to qualify my post earlier in this thread by free I meant borrowing from my friend and playing for free. He will buy this no matter what and currently possess my copy of DA: O

 

[HorribleJames]

Are you sure you want to say console games work 100% of the time? Because there have been a lot of games needing patches or having patches that significantly fuck up the games worse and you can't do anything about them.... And it's not maybe, it is easy. You're using the same damn wires to hook up your consoles. Come on now.

are you really saying playing a game on a console, you're just as likely to encounter any performance or stability issues as on a PC? especially for the lay person? come on now. and yes, "come on now" constitutes my whole rebuttal. There's such a disparity that I'm not sure how to really go about debating it.

Console hardware being uniform is the best thing consoles have going for them.

 

[Snuggles]

My bro is a PC gamer and he's got the comfiest chair I've ever sat on. Couches can suck it, that shit is nice. And it twirls too.

 

[EviLore]

are you really saying playing a game on a console, you're just as likely to encounter any performance or stability issues as on a PC? especially for the lay person? come on now.

I thought console games worked 100% of the time? Now it's just more often than PC games do?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

are you really saying playing a game on a console, you're just as likely to encounter any performance or stability issues as on a PC? especially for the lay person? come on now.

How often do you encounter problems on a pc? Console game still have glitches and have had broken games in the past. Are you really this ignorant? You can encounter problems on either platform. You keep using this general description of general malaise that all pcs apparently have.

My bro is a PC gamer and he's got the comfiest chair I've ever sat on. Couches can suck it, that shit is nice. And it twirls too.

Wish I had room for a sweet ass office chair.

 

[HorribleJames]

I thought console games worked 100% of the time? Now it's just more often than PC games do?

I've never had a GAME not work, no, unless the media was physically broken. The hardware occasionally fails. A situation where a console game comes out and among everyone with working consoles and non-defective physical media some people can't play it is definitely not something that happens very often... Once in a blue moon... And it happens with *every* pc game release.

I'll grant that PC hardware has gotten better, more reliable, easier to use, and more consistent in the last few years... At least as far as I can tell. I bought a 9800 gt a while ago and it still runs just about any game and they tend to run well. That said, it's still not perfect.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I've never had a GAME not work, no, unless the media was physically broken. The hardware occasionally fails. A situation where a console game comes out and among everyone with working consoles and non-defective physical media some people can't play it is definitely not something that happens very often... Once in a blue moon... And it happens with *every* pc game release.

:lol I'm glad your clarified things for us. Wow... My head hurts.

 

[Draft]

As a true baller PC gamer, my desk chair costs more than my couch.

My couch ain't no slouch, either. The chair is just that good.

 

[-tetsuo-]

In his defense, PC games do have more problems than console games, generally. I know that I sometimes forget because I usually have a problem resolved in a couple minutes that a lot of people would never figure out. When I fixed Gothic 2 just a month or so ago is an example of such an instance.

I've never had a GAME not work, no, unless the media was physically broken. The hardware occasionally fails. A situation where a console game comes out and among everyone with working consoles and non-defective physical media some people can't play it is definitely not something that happens very often... Once in a blue moon... And it happens with *every* pc game release.

Jesus Christ man I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU!

 

[HorribleJames]

:lol I'm glad your clarified things for us. Wow...

so you really don't see the difference -- you can't even acknowledge that consoles have uniform hardware and thus run their software far more reliably -- if you can't acknowledge this fundamental difference then I don't know what to say.

 

[Snuggles]

The 360 port of Fallout 3 nearly murdered my Xbox. The game must have crashed on me at least a dozen times in the 60 hours I spent with it. I was playing a lot of Left 4 Dead on my 360 at the time as well and it never crashed once.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

In his defense, PC games do have more problems than console games, generally. I know that I sometimes forget because I usually have a problem resolved in a couple minutes that a lot of people would never figure out. When I fixed Gothic 2 just a month or so ago is an example of such an instance.

Gothic 2 is a pretty old game to use as an example...

 

[cartman414]

My bro is a PC gamer and he's got the comfiest chair I've ever sat on. Couches can suck it, that shit is nice. And it twirls too.

A really good chair makes all the difference.

Not to mention that you also have the advantage of not having to miss any shows you might want to watch. An advantage shared by handhelds, yes, but still.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Gothic 2 is a pretty old game to use as an example...

Ya I know. I also know that half the Xbox games from then don't work on Xbox 360's but it is the most recent example I can think of that was kinda tricky.

 

[Ponn]

I've never had a GAME not work, no, unless the media was physically broken. The hardware occasionally fails. A situation where a console game comes out and among everyone with working consoles and non-defective physical media some people can't play it is definitely not something that happens very often... Once in a blue moon... And it happens with *every* pc game release.

Dude, as a third party watching with popcorn in hand, just stop, for your own good just stop.

I play just about everything on my 360 but that doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer to play on PC and the arguments you are trying to make are paper thin or non-existent. The only real thing stopping me from PC gaming is that i'm satisfied with playing on my 360 and just don't want to spend the money on a PC. That's like the only real valid argument I could muster but its not even worth arguing.

There are a lot of pros for PC gaming, don't push it. This is indeed bad news, taking something away from ANY gaming group is bad and its just bad form to do what you are doing here. I enjoy watching train wrecks like any other forum-goer but just thought I would make an attempt to help you from digging a bigger hole for yourself.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

As a true baller PC gamer, my desk chair costs more than my couch.

My couch ain't no slouch, either. The chair is just that good.

Hell yeah. Although my couch kind of sucks.