This. For example, how loud was the internet about Shenmue 3? It was so hyped and people went crazy when it was revealed. Game came out and 99.9% of consumers never get a shit.
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Does PlayStation's 85% digital figure represent consumer preference?
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ShadowkillXNA
Member
They could care less about Sony going digital most are salty if you dont bow to the porcelain pc throne and a lot are sore because they thought they would be getting best of both worlds with Sony games on PC
ShadowkillXNA
Member
Cert.in.Death
Member
The death of physical media is multi-faceted and why it enflames the passions of the gaming audience so profoundly is a curious thing (TV, movies, and music are well above 90% consumption via streaming, yet the physical media evangelism is less widespread).
Why it matters so much in this moment (when PlayStation announces their intentions) is worth understanding, seeing as it has been phased out in the PC space for almost two decades, is under attack by Nintendo (maybe that has more to do with incompetence) and largely dead in the Xbox space.
The only constant is change, and times are changing.
Why it matters so much in this moment (when PlayStation announces their intentions) is worth understanding, seeing as it has been phased out in the PC space for almost two decades, is under attack by Nintendo (maybe that has more to do with incompetence) and largely dead in the Xbox space.
The only constant is change, and times are changing.
PeteBull
Member
85% sales could be digital but at the same generated by 50% of gamers, other 15% of physical only purchases could be from 20, 30 or even 50% of customer base.
Remember person can buy used 2-3 months after launch, then sell that used copy for 10$ less vs what they bought it for and they dont register into sony profit, yet at the same time they can be legit hc gamer who buys 50+ AAA/AA games per generation, just for them it doesnt cost 70$(soon 80) per game he played, but 10-20$ max.
So all digital increases cost of being playstation gamer by 4 to 8x, thats not tiny increase, ofc ppl are rioting...
lakitu1982
Member
I hope people talk for once with their wallet. I will. I want to see in the next year big problems for Sony. It will help us gamers in the long run. There has to be a line with which they cross we cannot accept. Let this be it.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The cause is not a bad one, but the army of Xbots and Xbox influencers / astroturfers picking it up as the most disingenuous battle is annoying for sure.
PeteBull
Member
Ofc we will, but again looking at it from physical disc buyer pov(like myself) doesnt change the fact of how sony pov is- from their pov disc users are kinda useless parasites that get cheap(or free) ride on the back of digital only users, so they basically dont give much damn, especially at Sony HQ.
Shubh_C63
Member
Realistically speaking if only 30% of players are physical buyers and enthusiasts makes up for maybe 5% of that bunch and outspoken people even among that group is also only 5%, that is still atleast 5Million players up in arms about this, flooding things with negative reviews and dislikes.
Sony can easily make up for loss revenue of 5 million players. And be real, amongst the 5mllion maybe half will actually follow through. Sony got this.
Sony can easily make up for loss revenue of 5 million players. And be real, amongst the 5mllion maybe half will actually follow through. Sony got this.
Omnipunctual Godot
Member
Fabieter
Member
Never sold a game to gamestop in my life. I rarely even sold anything myself. For me it's just about the option to sell my shit?
Why would they? The company who makes the shit I sold privately never got any money out of it. Why would they?
They choose to do it. No one forced them into it. And guess what steam is still growing like hell. Price competition is important and they are killing it rn. So yeah they should be forced to open up their platform now. Maybe eu should force them so side load orher stores like they did with apple. I think having key stores would actually be the better alternative tbh, what do you think?
Robot Carnival
Member
I never get the digital buyers resistance on this, tbh. physical media isn't your thing, sure that's fine. you do you and there are full digital options available out there. but why are you against that others want it? it's not like having physical media would make your digital purchase worse or something. it's just more choices available for folks if they want it or god forbids digital goes down a path that becomes unfavorable.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Oh make no mistake, I am fully aware they would find a way to abuse this. I have always felt that digital distribution in general makes it easier for that kinda abuse to happen, which is why I have been speaking on digital rights management forever. I have always felt that the best and most effective safeguard to monopolistic abuse is if gamers have the right to sell their digital keys. Platform holders obviously wouldn't want that because giving gamers that kinda power can and would inevitably destroy the value of any IP they have (yes, there will always be that person willing to sell a 1-month-old game for $10). But having the option is still better; now, ideally, the best way to get around this is by using third-party certified digital stores, be that Amazon, GameStop, or something new entirely.
Its also why I feel that physical digital keycards should be made available, keycards that at least maintain all the benefits of using a disc, so that way, every store that currently sells games still can.
My accepting that we would go all digital eventually, predicting it and not being confused or enraged about it, does not mean I support it in its current form. It's exactly why I have and maintain my current game purchasing/consumption practices for the last 10 years.
I just believe throwing tantrums over them killing something off that was inevitably going to be killed off is just a waste of time, being that that decision will never be reversed. Our time should and should always have been better served pushing for the very things that would have made decisions like these inconsequential and/or even welcomed.
That's all I care about too... being able to resell my shit. The difference is that I don't care who is making money off that sale... because someone always does. And as it stands, no one allows anyone to resell their digital licenses.
You've kinda explained why though: they choose to do it because doing so inadvertently further grows their platform. Those leys you buy from wherever can only be used on Steam, which in turn keeps you in their own ecosystem. And price competition? You do know it has a price parity clause, right? You know the very thing you are praising is at the centre of the current antitrust lawsuit against them?
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I don't think the digital buyers are against anyone who wants physical.
I think they (well, at least I am speaking for myself) are against the people arguing about or for physical media, doing so in bad faith, or being hypocritical. Eg.
- 50% or 85%, it doesn't matter... There is obviously a shift towards digital; at the very least physical has been declining for over 16 years and has currently stagnated while digital has kept growing. Even the infrastructure behind physical media has shriveled over those 16 years, going from over 100 manufacturing plants at its peak globally to now under 5 (of which, funny enough, Sony is one of those 5). This is an indisputable, obvious fact, but you don't see any of them mentioning that, do you? That they soony talking about numbers manipulation and conspiracy theories while conveniently ignoring this obvious generalized shift is arguing in bad faith.
- They talk about ownership, and that being tied to your ability to sell, then turn around and talk about supporting Steam... that has been all digital for over 20 years, and has NEVER given consumers the ability to sell, which means no one that uses Steam truly owns their games anyways. Or talk about greed and manipulation, while conveniently ignoring all the shady shit Steam has done over the years too. How do you lambast someone for doing something that someone else you support has been doing forever? That is hypocritical.
- Lastly, if you look at all these threads, what you will be seeing sonds like they are fighting for ownership... nope, most of them do not care, at least not anyone that uses steam... what they care about are better deals and price competition, which totally makes sense and is fair, but again, its arguing in bad faith if thats what you want but then saying something else, because the something else you are saying sounds like some sort of altruistic cause...
Hell, I accept that physical discs as a medium have become redundant; it would literally take most people less time now to download a game than to go to our store and back home, or than buying online and shipping the disc. But I feel theer is room for something in between; eg, let their be two price points for the games, Say a single use key that is tied to one account and can never be resold for $70, and then a multiuse key or digital card that you can re-use multiple times but on no more than one active account at a time that cost $80-$100. That way people can still sell on or gift their games if they wanted to.
I mean, there are ways around these things, but those conversations are not being had; instead, we are here bickering over the death of something that's been dying since 2010.
Fabieter
Member
Sony has a lawsuit for having a monopoly in their garbage psn store.
You know tue difference even if price parity clause exist? I can buy a digital game on a key store far cheaper. It is not possible with like i said the shitty garbage psn store.
So yes giving todax circumstances steam is the lesser evil.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
You see... this is the very hypocrisy I am talking about....
Ok, so let's be honest... Sony had a lawsuit against PS Store that they have settled for around $7M, for limiting the sale of digital games on other stores. This is true...
What's also true? Valve has three notable lawsuits.
UK Price-Gaging Class Action: A £656 million ($899 million) lawsuit accuses Valve of abusing its dominant market position by forcing price parity rules on developers, which prevents them from offering games or DLC cheaper elsewhere and forces them to pass high 30% commissions onto consumers.
New York Loot Box Lawsuit: New York's Attorney General sued Valve for allegedly promoting illegal gambling through virtual "loot boxes" in games like Counter-Strike 2 and Dota 2, which lure underage users to gamble for items with real-world monetary value.
US Antitrust Developer Class Action: A class-action lawsuit originally filed by Wolfire Games alleges Valve uses its monopoly to punish developers who try to sell their games on competing platforms, locking publishers into paying high sales commissions.
Steam the lesser evil, right? Ok then.
Hyper_hyper
Member
Actually it isn't. Just look what Mat Piscatella said back in 2024 for digital/physical split. And on Circana charts are basically AAA games. 78% are digital in 2024. And number grew in favor of digital surely in 2024. But anyway :
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lakitu1982
Member
Physical sales are big probably around 40% atm for bigger games. They hope those phsical sales and buyers will now go digital don't they. I hope sales drop massive and they make a u-turn. They can then try it all again in 15 years. Greed is a powerful thing isn't it.
Bojji
Member
I think 110% at least.
Angel of BOOM!
Member
But the big publishers will just do a GTA6. Sony are not making this decision in a vacuum...
Swolebro_Thickdude
Member
i think if a game is available on both physical and digital formats, that ratio looks a lot different.
85/15 split includes digital only games. its a stupid stat to give then say "well consumer preference is all digital anyway"
85/15 split includes digital only games. its a stupid stat to give then say "well consumer preference is all digital anyway"
PeteBull
Member
Totally agree, but gotta be real here, for sony most important is amout of profit, not total amount of ppl who buy their games, out of 40% who buys games physically they get way less profit, and out of those who buy game used they not even get less profit, they get literal 0, hence they dont give a damn.
I say ps6 might have hard cap of or even below 50m units, and it will still make more profit than 117,2m units ps4(official data from sony themselfs as of 30june 2022), simply coz they will monetize that smaller playerbase way more.
Fabieter
Member
the welsh one
Neo Member
I game on pc and ps5. I can honestly say I haven't bought a physical copy of any game for at least 6 years. Friends and family are the same.
When the xbox one digital only fuss come about more than a few years back i was one of the people who thought it was a terrible idea and would fail.
But since then Internet services have got a lot faster . Online stores are better built and its just so much easier to buy a digital copy instead of trapsing down to the local game store , inhaling the copious amount of body odour to buy a disc that's gonna need a huge patch anyway.
When the xbox one digital only fuss come about more than a few years back i was one of the people who thought it was a terrible idea and would fail.
But since then Internet services have got a lot faster . Online stores are better built and its just so much easier to buy a digital copy instead of trapsing down to the local game store , inhaling the copious amount of body odour to buy a disc that's gonna need a huge patch anyway.
Roufianos
Member
We have data from the UK from 2024/5 showing Sony games selling c.50% physical at launch. 78% digital in total includes various digital only games, and obviously games have longer legs on digital storefronts, that's why I said at launch.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
That's a hard number because what about people who can't download all their games due to data caps, internet availability, and financial reasons? Sure your large core audience downloads games and they bought a digital only console knowing this way in advance. Does that number say they sold X amount of console or "out of all the games purchased" because you can trade a console and buy games for it. There's all kinds of different situations. Someone could buy 2-3 consoles for misc reasons. They now have more votes? I guess I'm a bit confused.
Hype of for big game releases is shorter and shorter these days. They typically give us a big number a week or maybe 6 months down the road. 1 physical copy could have gone to 2 consumers. MrBeast buying a school of kids digital PS5's (just a random example) is now boosting that number because now they have to buy digital.
Hype of for big game releases is shorter and shorter these days. They typically give us a big number a week or maybe 6 months down the road. 1 physical copy could have gone to 2 consumers. MrBeast buying a school of kids digital PS5's (just a random example) is now boosting that number because now they have to buy digital.
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Dust-by-Monday
Member
My point was the numbers for physical sales are skewed by the fact that we don't know how many times an individual game was bought. Meanwhile, every single person has to buy their own "new" digital license.
Walliwallipaloo
Gold Member
The space has been artificially inflated with new gamers who only whip out their (mom's) credit cards when buying skins for free-to-play games like Fortnite. They're not interested in "real" games and never will be.
Catering to such gamers is unsustainable, because a lot of these people really won't stick to the medium. A surprising number of these kids could very easily live without videogames, and it takes an awful lot of effort to pry them away from their phones for more than thirty minutes at a time. Seriously, all they do is scroll on their smartphones.
But because of the "need for growth," companies like Sony keep trying to pick up their occasional spend anyway, to the detriment of the rest of us who made them what they are today. We'll leave, because we're sick of this shitty new paradigm, but the neat part is, so will the pick-ups, because they never really planned on staying anyway. Once they finally get bored of games like Fortnite, which they will (and already are, from the looks of it), they'll happily go back to swiping away at their phones.
Walliwallipaloo
Gold Member
Um...because it turned out to be a pretty bad game.
In the same way that Shenmue 2 was a shadow of the first game's self.
Oops. Double-post. Man, I'm tired today. Forgive me. I really need some coffee.
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Hyper_hyper
Member
I would bet that you've referred to Astrobot.
The physical /digital ratio Astrobot maybe suggest most people bought that game for their kids given children don't have purchasing power. LOL
You know, the vast majority of games that are selling on consoles are 3rd party games. Sony's games are few. Very few. So, using a only Sony game in favor of discs won't cut it. At all
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calico
Member
Jan-Aug '24 in the US: For PS5 games with both digital and physical formats, 78% of sales revenue was digital. According to a Mat Piscatella comment.
Units could be a bit different due to price differences, and there's no holiday in that period (which I assume is more physical than the rest of the year).
MisterXDTV
Member
Well, I guess people have 18 months to prove Sony wrong and start buying everything on disc starting this month
If it is that important, people will send the message to Sony, right?
If it is that important, people will send the message to Sony, right?
Topher
Identifies as young
That's just in the US but good to know
calico
Member
The more effective message would be to cease any spending on PS until they reverse course, if enough people are serious about it.
Bojji
Member
US probably has the biggest digital share ratio.
Swolebro_Thickdude
Member
i think people will send that message by NOT giving their money to sony
Fabieter
Member
A lot People are too weak to fight for their rights.
I unsubbed my netflix account half a year ago because netflix changed their shitty terms to fuck over voice actors worldwide with AI. I know most people didnt give a fuck but if you kust keep consuming shit you are part of the problem.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yep. Regions with less than ideal internet or complete lack of access to PSN are obviously going to lean more towards physical. Sony is cutting off a big chunk of the world
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
There are rural areas of my hometown in Southern Indiana that their only access is over the air broadband or a satellite type of internet
My nephews for one, who all game, their home is not is some remote part of the world and it literally can take them a day or two just to download an update to a game
No way they could even go all digital if they wanted until some company wants to run miles of line for a few potential customers
Hyper_hyper
Member
4 years OLD data. You are out of date
kevboard
Gold Member
oh, I'm sure 4 years later that completely turned in the other direction... which is also why the disc drive was sold out everywhere when the Pro released.
Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
I remember when the talking points were that most still don't have high speed internet and therefore it would be a huge loss of sales if so many couldn't download games but if those numbers are accurate, I think that solves that.
My only beef is the dramatics and theatrics when pc shifted to pretty much digital only for the most part many moons ago and people been fine.
My only beef is the dramatics and theatrics when pc shifted to pretty much digital only for the most part many moons ago and people been fine.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
There are places in the Midwest where they're paying a couple hundred for 5 Mbps in 2026. A lot of the lines come in to a water tower and they'll set up point to points for double NAT Internet. Realistically, those people aren't downloading 100 gb video games. I totally get the homestead family not being able to download a small update.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
My internet is pretty bad but even downloading full games has been manageable. Just leave it overnight or something. A day or two seems unrealistically slow.