Randall365
Member
AI could be very exciting actually, as we could go back to the singular creative vision of small developers, but with a sheen that means it is not just panned by journos.
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Do you really think gaming industry is in trouble?
- Thread starter Peroroncino
- Start date
- Opinion
semiconscious
Member
'gaming industry'? not so much. the 'triple-a games that take 5 years to make' industry? this generation will be decisive...
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Wish game quality matched the cost and there were more games then one and done cinematic movies. So yeah gaming is in trouble. Has been for a while. Not to mention it's now a battlefield for media outlets to spread whatever "message" they want to send.
Too much greed and not enough artistic vision.
On the other hand unlike last year this year has had a strong start for gaming.
People just want fun games and more then half are anything but.
Game Industry is kinda in a similar boat as Movie Industry. Very lacking in creativity and at some point the graphical leaps over time will be smaller and smaller until you'll need to make a fun and engaging game/movie to capture an audience.
Too much greed and not enough artistic vision.
On the other hand unlike last year this year has had a strong start for gaming.
People just want fun games and more then half are anything but.
Game Industry is kinda in a similar boat as Movie Industry. Very lacking in creativity and at some point the graphical leaps over time will be smaller and smaller until you'll need to make a fun and engaging game/movie to capture an audience.
Randall365
Member
There is also a fundamental flaw with big budget games - you can make a movie for $200million and people only have to give up a couple of hours of their time to enjoy it. Games still have really long single player campaigns (often 20 to 30 hours plus), with endless side missions, when there must be demand for quality, shorter experiences, given that many gamers are now cash rich but time poor.
I paid £70 for GOW Ragnarok - but it is almost an effort to play through these big releases now. I could not bring myself to do the same for Spiderman 2 as I just couldn't be bothered.
It's probably a bad analogy, but I remember playing Zelda back on the SNES - if you get a new weapon it's because there is a fun new dynamic to learn. You know what's not fun - getting endless drops of random shit and having to spend hours working out what to scrap, what to equip (for marginal gains) and what to sell. I bet one person came up with those Zelda weapons - and probably 200 were involved in the GOW endless scrap and another team to work out whether the lore in the item description was offensive.
I paid £70 for GOW Ragnarok - but it is almost an effort to play through these big releases now. I could not bring myself to do the same for Spiderman 2 as I just couldn't be bothered.
It's probably a bad analogy, but I remember playing Zelda back on the SNES - if you get a new weapon it's because there is a fun new dynamic to learn. You know what's not fun - getting endless drops of random shit and having to spend hours working out what to scrap, what to equip (for marginal gains) and what to sell. I bet one person came up with those Zelda weapons - and probably 200 were involved in the GOW endless scrap and another team to work out whether the lore in the item description was offensive.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I don’t know how you can look at it as is and say everything’s fine lmfao
AAA gaming specifically
Their answer to fix everything? Make everything GAAS trash.
How is it NOT fucked?
AAA gaming specifically
Their answer to fix everything? Make everything GAAS trash.
How is it NOT fucked?
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bender
What time is it?
On one end of the spectrum you have massive budgets and i the indie to mid-size space, you have discoverability issues. The machine that is game production needs to shrink but that will happen naturally. I think we are heading towards significant course corrections but not necessarily a crash.
Randall365
Member
Given the scale of it, the larger companies can probably just lay off loads of people and avoid going under. It's the combination of low interest rates (cheap loans) and obscure funding streams that kept all these bloated companies going, but it looks like there is now a reckoning.
At some point, they may actually take the time to find out what gamers actually want!
Astral Dog
Member
Not just the game industry, but the whole west
MacReady13
Member
Agreed. It doesn't help when sites like Digital Foundry are out there nitpicking every tiny detail and complaining about shit that most people never really gave a fuck about. Games really need to make less of a focus on bleeding edge graphics and more about gameplay...
They can't even get the basic of a GAAS right, they don't understand why Fortnite and Roblox are successful, because it has constant quality updates into a well made game. And they're chasing that money also for the fact that they could wind down anything that doesn't bring the same level of ROI like Activision pretty much did over the last ten years.
ByWatterson
Member
We have way, way too many games being made. That's a fact.
It'll normalize and then calm down. Fewer games, less growth, less harsh corrections.
It'll normalize and then calm down. Fewer games, less growth, less harsh corrections.
No the gaming industry is cyclical.
There are always periods where course correction needs to applied. This is one of such periods.
Gaming companies have expanded a lot during the covid period, now they need to make sure these investements are sustainable in a market returned to normal.
Also solutions have to be found to deal with higher budgets and too much long development cycles.
There are always periods where course correction needs to applied. This is one of such periods.
Gaming companies have expanded a lot during the covid period, now they need to make sure these investements are sustainable in a market returned to normal.
Also solutions have to be found to deal with higher budgets and too much long development cycles.
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March Climber
Member
Didn’t people say this about 2022 and 2023 when Covid lockdowns stopped happening?
I think the problem here is that GAF is being fed constant clickbait and negative news from usual suspects, so everything looks like doom and gloom constantly. It’s an endless, algorithmed spiral. If WB decides to leave the AAA gaming industry, then too bad, they just leave
. Someone new will always replace the ones who go. LJN was replaced by Acclaim who was replaced by THQ. Everyone’s freaking out because they’ve been focusing too much on grandfather companies instead of the new guys.
I’ll say again and again, don’t let companies like Larian come from ‘out of nowhere’ and surprise you guys. These newer devs keep trying to get your attention with good games, but you guys constantly focus on the titans who are disappointing you.
Perspectives have to change.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
The main difference from 2022 to now is that studios were flush with all the capital they generated during Covid during those years. The investment landscape for gaming currently is a barren hell scape. Everyone is dumping their cash (back) into Crypto and AI.Didn’t people say this about 2022 and 2023 when Covid lockdowns stopped happening?
I think the problem here is that GAF is being fed constant clickbait and negative news from usual suspects, so everything looks like doom and gloom constantly. It’s an endless, algorithmed spiral. If WB decides to leave the AAA gaming industry, then too bad, they just leave
Someone new will always replace the ones who go. LJN was replaced by Acclaim who was replaced by THQ. Everyone’s freaking out because they’ve been focusing too much on grandfather companies instead of the new guys.
I’ll say again and again, don’t let companies like Larian come from ‘out of nowhere’ and surprise you guys. These newer devs keep trying to get your attention with good games, but you guys constantly focus on the titans who are disappointing you.
Perspectives have to change.
You are correct, others will replace the entities that exit the market, but those new players won't follow previous business models. Streaming, Live Service, and Pay Over/With Time is the direction these new companies will move in because that is what emerging interactive software users gravitate towards now.
I might be mis-reading your post, but Larian is certainly not a newer dev by any means (they opened in 1996) and they recently got quite a large cash infusion from external investors so as they continue to grow their portfolio they will be less and less of an independent entity.
March Climber
Member
Time will tell if you are only describing the full future or a portion of it. And if anyone only interacts with that portion of the future that you described, then they only have themselves to blame.
I’m saying that Larian should not have ‘blindsided’ people or ‘come out of nowhere’ like many claim, because they’ve been around for a while.
I’m encouraging people to pay attention to the companies that are not your usual titan publishers of the industry, and instead keep giving studios like Larian or newer studios your attention. They shouldn’t have to toil away for years before they’re finally acknowledged for their talents, meanwhile the internet and GAF are very eager to find the next AAA game to criticize.
majorgamer10
Member
Whatever happens, I'm still gonna play games 
cash_longfellow
Gold Member
It will be fine, but the AAA space needs to stop trying to monetize everything and GAAS up everything, and start coming out with games that are complete and not broken. Consumers aren’t buying into that shit anymore, that’s what is happening.
flying_sq
Member
I feel like instead of multiple huge titles, publishers should just focus on one amazing title a year, with riskier, lower budget games for the rest of the year. Like one "AAA" $60-$70 game a year with a bunch of $30-$40 games. Should give them a serious hit, then you run the chance of a game like Helldivers just blowing up. Let them hype the pants off the next major series ala Halo, God of War, Mario, or whatever.
Rayderism
Member
What I don't understand, in this day and age where they collect all kinds of data of what and how you play, how do they continue to not make games better....well....other than graphics? Like the woke BS, they KNOW that the majority of people DON'T want or care about it, yet they continue to inject that cringy crap into games all the time now. I don't know anyone who wants to see ugly beast women in their games, but there are so many of those kinds of games out there now. Just what the heck are they doing with all the data they collect, if not to make games more appealing to gamers? Why do they continue to cater to the woke freaks and ignore normal people when the data they collect HAS to be telling them most people don't want the woke crap?
How about games start adding a couple options:
Woke BS on/off
Ugly beast women on/off
Effeminate guys on/off
Everyone is gay on/off
(feel free to add any others)
At the very least, have those options so you can choose for yourself whether you want that stuff in your games or not. Then collect the data on which options get chosen the most and actually USE the data to benefit the industry, and gamers.
How about games start adding a couple options:
Woke BS on/off
Ugly beast women on/off
Effeminate guys on/off
Everyone is gay on/off
(feel free to add any others)
At the very least, have those options so you can choose for yourself whether you want that stuff in your games or not. Then collect the data on which options get chosen the most and actually USE the data to benefit the industry, and gamers.
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Peroroncino
Member
KXVXII9X
Member
I keep thinking of how peak early Zelda game design was. It was kind of a Metroidvania in that you gradually unlock new weapons and gear that allow you to traverse more through the world. Each item felt significant. Exploration felt really rewarding. I'm not a fan of getting endless loot where you may find a similar sword or amulet that may increase your attack by 10%. I'd rather have a game have 30 unique weapons and gear that drastically change how you play. The pacing feels much better, imo. I do enjoy Zelda BotW/TotK for other reasons but felt like a lot of the game I was mindlessly wandering and collecting things that made little difference.
KXVXII9X
Member
I've thought about this for a while. Outliers aside, it seems like AA type games don't sell as well.
People seem to want Ubisoft to make different games and their smaller games like Mario and Rabbids Sparks of Hope and Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown don't seem to sell as well. I don't think Hi Fi Rush sold as well despite is being the epitome of what the same people complaining want in a game. Vanillaware just released Unicorn Overlord and despite it being a success for the company and being well received, it sells nowhere near the big AAA titles.
Outside of outliers like Helldivers 2 and Baldur's Gate 3, most of the gaming discussions outside forums talk about AAA and live service games. Everyone is hyped for the big guns but who really talks about stuff like No Rest for the Wicked, Super Monkey Ball Banana Rumble, The Plucky Squire, or Eiyuden Chronicles?
I feel like there is very little incentive to even make cheaper games when you can try your luck at maximizing sales with AAA or live service regardless of the quality. I honestly wish there was more of a mix.
I think others have essentially nailed my thoughts.
You can't have 300 million dollar budgets and 5 to 8 year dev cycles and be sustainable and profitable. You still get your Spiderman 2's of the world. But something like Suicide Squad takes 9 years to develop and Skull and Bones? These are trash tier games that are being framed as top gaming experiences.
You also have something like Callisto Protocol which sold 2+ million as a new survival horror IP and was deemed a failure. Games like that used to get sequels to iron out the flaws in the first game and grow their audience. Now every big game has to sell like 10 million to be considered a success. This part isn't sustainable.
The fact that Nintendo has been more profitable than Sony and Microsoft in recent years with less focus on blowing out graphics is telling on where a lot of energy in the industry should be focused.
You can't have 300 million dollar budgets and 5 to 8 year dev cycles and be sustainable and profitable. You still get your Spiderman 2's of the world. But something like Suicide Squad takes 9 years to develop and Skull and Bones? These are trash tier games that are being framed as top gaming experiences.
You also have something like Callisto Protocol which sold 2+ million as a new survival horror IP and was deemed a failure. Games like that used to get sequels to iron out the flaws in the first game and grow their audience. Now every big game has to sell like 10 million to be considered a success. This part isn't sustainable.
The fact that Nintendo has been more profitable than Sony and Microsoft in recent years with less focus on blowing out graphics is telling on where a lot of energy in the industry should be focused.
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The industry is not in trouble. There is a robust audience that isn't going away. If companies cater to the audience they will be fine.
Occasional flops are bound to happen in every industry. When it comes to platforms and massive investments that do not pan out in gaming, the causation almost always seems driven by a couple usual suspects. Stadia - tried to force its vision on the audience and was rejected. I do not consider Xbox a massive failure, but obviously they have been losing market share and need more software sales. All can be traced back to trying to force a vision (TV / Kinect) followed by pure greed (buy everything and stop selling as many games in hopes hundreds of millions subscribe). Failed live service games --> pure greed at play (instead of making something audience wants, they try to make something that tricks audience into spending more money). And there are certainly plenty of games that seemed to chase a new audience while alienating existing one. That is pure greed too.
Occasional flops are bound to happen in every industry. When it comes to platforms and massive investments that do not pan out in gaming, the causation almost always seems driven by a couple usual suspects. Stadia - tried to force its vision on the audience and was rejected. I do not consider Xbox a massive failure, but obviously they have been losing market share and need more software sales. All can be traced back to trying to force a vision (TV / Kinect) followed by pure greed (buy everything and stop selling as many games in hopes hundreds of millions subscribe). Failed live service games --> pure greed at play (instead of making something audience wants, they try to make something that tricks audience into spending more money). And there are certainly plenty of games that seemed to chase a new audience while alienating existing one. That is pure greed too.
TropicanaTwista
Member
This is the answer.
I think gaming is fine overall but there is just WAY too much coming out that doesn't need too. I would argue the absurd game budgets are probably out of hand too, but if there was less games and saturation on the market, I feel like that would work itself out.
mayham2199
Member
I don't think it is. I forget who but I remember someone saying there are just to many games. When I go into the PSN store the amount of games I see is insane. Like 60% of them are low budget games that just seem like trash but it's so many games I can't believe it sometimes.
KXVXII9X
Member
I couldn't agree more if I tried. It is frustrating to watch gamers just focus on the usual AAA blunders while never giving time to focus on the lesser known studios. Anyone who played Divinity Original Sin 2 was probably not surprised by Baldur Gate 3's success. It was an excellent RPG that was still somewhat under the radar.
Every year I see gamers just focus on the same kinds of AAA games and studios while neglecting to search out alternative studios until they go viral despite them being known for ages.
Woopah
Member
Bigger games with bigger budgets tend to get talked about more, but forum posters are only a very small portion of the gaming audience.
There's plenty of incentive to make cheaper games that hit profitability at a lower sales point.
Of course thst doesn't mean AA games are always successful, they can still fail.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Industry is fine. But like the dot com phase in 2000, it’s got to a point of bubble and too much free money and over hiring. Give it a year or two to shake things out with more shut downs and companies getting costs back in line.
But those fringe studios trying to make a big splashy game based on hooking in investors or giant bank loans won’t end well for them. Better for them to aim small with small budget requests.
But those fringe studios trying to make a big splashy game based on hooking in investors or giant bank loans won’t end well for them. Better for them to aim small with small budget requests.
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thegame983
Member
Fuck no. People are being layed off because the company didn't make as much money as it wanted to. Not because it didn't make a shit load.
Moriarty1889
Member
It’s fucked as long as devs keep letting companies like SBI infect their games. Also, the budgets for AAA games are ridiculous. GAAS has been shite mostly and hopefully devs will return to more of a traditional offline gaming model.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
It’s not as dire as people seem to claim on the internet. Industries adapt.
Bruno_Arrais85
Member
No but the half billion budget games are.
EDMIX
Member
The fucking lolz
The industry is just fine.
1. Actually fucking pay for games, thinking some subscription or "free" type thing will correct this is insane and makes no sense
2. If you want next gen features and the industry to PROGRESS, the actual fucking pay must also..PROGRESS, we cannot keep this idea of $69.99 for 15 years as some fucking magical dumbass standard, it makes zero sense and no industry was doing anything like that for an obvious reason. So...shit, maybe last gen we should have gone to 69.99, as games right now imho should likely be 99.99
We cannot demand this AAA or even funny ass "AAAA" and then be paying prices from several generations ago and then surprised at studios closing, publishers being bought up, games cancelled etc.
You don't need to buy day 1, buy used if you can, but more then enough buy theses games brand new, that imho I truly believe a lot of this can be corrected by simply making games the price they likely should be.
The biggest issue here is many are trying to find a way to correct something, while trying to pay the same thing, as if zero connect exist between them or something.
The industry is just fine.
1. Actually fucking pay for games, thinking some subscription or "free" type thing will correct this is insane and makes no sense
2. If you want next gen features and the industry to PROGRESS, the actual fucking pay must also..PROGRESS, we cannot keep this idea of $69.99 for 15 years as some fucking magical dumbass standard, it makes zero sense and no industry was doing anything like that for an obvious reason. So...shit, maybe last gen we should have gone to 69.99, as games right now imho should likely be 99.99
We cannot demand this AAA or even funny ass "AAAA" and then be paying prices from several generations ago and then surprised at studios closing, publishers being bought up, games cancelled etc.
You don't need to buy day 1, buy used if you can, but more then enough buy theses games brand new, that imho I truly believe a lot of this can be corrected by simply making games the price they likely should be.
The biggest issue here is many are trying to find a way to correct something, while trying to pay the same thing, as if zero connect exist between them or something.
Pegasus Actual
Member
Industry is getting a well-earned 'correction'.
Gaming as a hobby though is fine. May even benefit from a purge.
Either way I ain't worried about it.
Gaming as a hobby though is fine. May even benefit from a purge.
Either way I ain't worried about it.
Gamerguy84
Member
Mobile gaming is fine. AAA console/PC gaming might be getting a bit shaky but isn't going away soon.
"Trouble" means different things to different participants.
If your primary hope is for a steady stream of high quality games that don't abuse you as a customer, you're in a shit tar pit with recent publisher behavior. But that could see vast improvement with a long overdue market correction and companies gradually realizing you can't get another $50 out of everyone on every $70 game. People will just stop paying $70.
If you work in the industry, you might be in trouble since consolidation inevitably results in redundancies, ATM machine games don't frequently need a ton of new employees, and AI is coming.
If you're a publisher, you will be fine if you don't nauseate your customers. It is entirely within their power to strike a correct balance between short term monetary goals and long term customer retention.
I don't really care either way. The backlog is massive and I don't need to tolerate nonsense to keep myself entertained.
If your primary hope is for a steady stream of high quality games that don't abuse you as a customer, you're in a shit tar pit with recent publisher behavior. But that could see vast improvement with a long overdue market correction and companies gradually realizing you can't get another $50 out of everyone on every $70 game. People will just stop paying $70.
If you work in the industry, you might be in trouble since consolidation inevitably results in redundancies, ATM machine games don't frequently need a ton of new employees, and AI is coming.
If you're a publisher, you will be fine if you don't nauseate your customers. It is entirely within their power to strike a correct balance between short term monetary goals and long term customer retention.
I don't really care either way. The backlog is massive and I don't need to tolerate nonsense to keep myself entertained.