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Disc Solution

Embearded

Embearded

Member
I've posted it in another thread that got locked pretty fast. Here it is:

  • Code in a box.
  • Include 1 to n blank blu ray discs
  • Disc drive peripheral is R/W
  • Allow players to burn the game in the blu ray anytime they want and not just the initial release version.
  • When that happens, transfer the digital license to the physical disc.
  • Consoles need to be online when disc enters for the first time. Until it is used on another console, you can play the game discless on your devices with your account.
  • When the time comes and the console is no longer supported, disable any license check on Firmware level.

It doesn't give them the entire margin of digitals, they just don't have the part of the production that writes the discs.
It is better than the current system for game preservation because you store the latest and possibly fixed version instead of day one.
It allows the user to also store digital only releases.

What do you think?
 
Just move to rewriteable cartridges. I don't care about the mechanics outside of that. Give me a cart I can update/load DLC onto, have the rights attached to that cart, and let me use it without phoning home.

Beyond that, please fuck off... arbitrary platform holder.
 
1. The manufactures of blu ray drives are consolidating and slowing down production of drives to teh bare minimum, There just is no money is making them.

2. As such, the manufacture of blank discs has also decreased to just 1 or 2 worldwide manufacturers and they have significantly cut back production. You cannot find blank discs in most retail channels any more.

3. most games come with huge patches, sometimes days/weeks after launch. you would be burning discs over and over across the first few months.

4. And Sony, home of the music rootkit for digital protection, is in no way, shape or form EVER going to allow anyone to make their games be portable and copyable.
 
Danny Dudekisser said:
Just move to rewriteable cartridges. I don't care about the mechanics outside of that. Give me a cart I can update/load DLC onto, have the rights attached to that cart, and let me use it without phoning home.

Beyond that, please fuck off... arbitrary platform holder.
Click to expand...
cartridges rely on memory chips. and AAA game would need 60-150GM of memory. You know how much that costs in the current market space even with teh type of memory used in cartridges? No one is going to ramp up production of that kind of memory as long as AI market is booming and teh big boys are buying up all fab capacity.
 
Not to shit all over your idea... but... This rewritable solution doesn't feel like it's solving anything. They still have to print a box, they still have to print a code, presumably on a separate slip, and they still have to include a disc. At this point, that's 90% of their disc related costs.

I'm also concerned that if the drive is designed to read presumably unlicensed discs (since you said the license hasn't been written yet) that it could be exploited nearly instantly by ne'er-do-wells. This feels like PS1, Dreamcast era console piracy all over again.
 
You see, discs were the only thing keeping locked hardware games into any kind of good faith. Yeah, we know that you in theory you need Playstation hardware to play Playstation games, but we know that eventually emulators arise and games get dumped, so it's not that bad. But know, they broke that unwritten agreement. Games in discs doesn't cut it anymore. We need to do away with locked hardware.
 
kinda delusional if you think sony/nintendo is gonna let you download their game offline as an iso and let you burn your own disc 😂😂😂

also code in a box is missing the entire point of preservation, server goes offline = can't download the game anymore

almost all of these are already solved on PC with GOG/crack, you can do whatever you want with your DRM free game

Digital only future is Inevitable. Its just PC is still better for that because of GOG and crack
 
I doubt disc drive manufacturers will allow a firmware that can copy or bypass types of DRM. You know someone would figure out the key(s) then start burning them. Kind of like a Msoft KMS
 
  1. Blu Ray Drives in general are slowing down in production, so I think that's a tough ask without a bigger company taking a risk.
  2. Opening up the discs to be writeable I think the console maker worries will make piracy easier.
    1. Nintendo made their cartridges read-only for that reason, gimping the Switch 2 from transferring data to the faster internal storage (outside dlc).
  3. Sony doesn't give a shit about doing all this, they actively WANT you stuck on digital so they control the entire buying experience in their closed platform.
 
Digital disc codes arent much different than discs aside from not being able to resell.

Having plastic cases with a code in it goes against what console makers want to do. And that is as little physical presence as possible due to physical costs and much less margin as those digital code boxes are sold at stores so WM and Best Buy get their cut as normal.

They want as much gaming to be bought and downloaded direct to your console as possible. Less costs, no game selling/trading, retail stores get no cut anymore.
 
Embearded said:
I've posted it in another thread that got locked pretty fast. Here it is:

  • Code in a box.
  • Include 1 to n blank blu ray discs
  • Disc drive peripheral is R/W
  • Allow players to burn the game in the blu ray anytime they want and not just the initial release version.
  • When that happens, transfer the digital license to the physical disc.
  • Consoles need to be online when disc enters for the first time. Until it is used on another console, you can play the game discless on your devices with your account.
  • When the time comes and the console is no longer supported, disable any license check on Firmware level.

It doesn't give them the entire margin of digitals, they just don't have the part of the production that writes the discs.
It is better than the current system for game preservation because you store the latest and possibly fixed version instead of day one.
It allows the user to also store digital only releases.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
You mean a solution that allows those pesky players to resell their discs instead of buying directly from glorious Sony at full price? Never!
 
Embearded said:
I've posted it in another thread that got locked pretty fast. Here it is:

  • Code in a box.
  • Include 1 to n blank blu ray discs
  • Disc drive peripheral is R/W
  • Allow players to burn the game in the blu ray anytime they want and not just the initial release version.
  • When that happens, transfer the digital license to the physical disc.
  • Consoles need to be online when disc enters for the first time. Until it is used on another console, you can play the game discless on your devices with your account.
  • When the time comes and the console is no longer supported, disable any license check on Firmware level.

It doesn't give them the entire margin of digitals, they just don't have the part of the production that writes the discs.
It is better than the current system for game preservation because you store the latest and possibly fixed version instead of day one.
It allows the user to also store digital only releases.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

e6u6p4kfwocJRPcJ.gif


The dream is dead. Let it go.
 
Embearded said:
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Or, you could just, you know..
  • Remove the DRM
  • Let people backup their digital copy in whatever version number you have to any storage/physical medium for preservation
The only thing that seemingly can't be solved is the combination of a) reselling your digital license and b) preserving the game like mentioned above.
 
StreetsofBeige said:
They want as much gaming to be bought and downloaded direct to your console as possible. Less costs, no game selling/trading, retail stores get no cut anymore.
Click to expand...
Shortly thereafter, Sony will come, hat in hand, and say they have to raise the price of digital games because the licensing fees went up along with infrastructure costs
 
This obviously won't ever happen. But it's not the dumbest idea I've heard.

The biggest issue is that writeable discs tend to degrade sooner. You'd lose your 'digital license' when that happens so it would carry a risk.
 
Look Embearded Embearded , i'll put it straight to you:
Destroying your ability to resell games, as well as your ability control/preserve them isn't a consequence of Sony's decision, it's their objective. Whatever 'solution' you may come up with is pointless, because what you consider problems to be fixed has been their end goal all along.
 
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Sounds expensive, cumbersome, complicates and like something that would interest Sony even less than just having a console with a drive and games on normal discs.

Personally, I'd feel like I was playing a pirated backup of the game and I would never buy such a copy used. Not appealing at all for me (and I love physical media and refuse to buy digital download-only games)
 
Guilty_AI said:
Look Embearded Embearded , i'll put it straight to you:
Destroying your ability to resell games, as well as your ability control/preserve them isn't a consequence of Sony's decision, it's their objective. Whatever 'solution' you may come up with is pointless, because what you consider problems to be fixed has been their end goal all along.
Click to expand...

Hello sister, I'm glad to see you've been able to pay your bail, please report back to Steam and pick up Golden Light, which is on the wasteland that is your wishlist, for R$ 5.99 BR bucks.
 
I think this entire thing might be a conspiracy to force people into renting games as a service. Kind of like Netflix and stuff.

They could tie the games to the hardware IDs of the console. But they won't do that because it will cost money to keep up with.
 
Burning also wears a drive a lot. They'd be failing in unsustainable numbers and while Sony could protect themselves legally from that, the reputation damage would not be worth it.
 
They restricted the PS5 browser to minimize potential exploits, and you're suggesting they add a huge attack surface along with convenient software for creating disc images?
 
pqueue said:
1. The manufactures of blu ray drives are consolidating and slowing down production of drives to teh bare minimum, There just is no money is making them.

2. As such, the manufacture of blank discs has also decreased to just 1 or 2 worldwide manufacturers and they have significantly cut back production. You cannot find blank discs in most retail channels any more.

3. most games come with huge patches, sometimes days/weeks after launch. you would be burning discs over and over across the first few months.

4. And Sony, home of the music rootkit for digital protection, is in no way, shape or form EVER going to allow anyone to make their games be portable and copyable.
Click to expand...

I understand 1,2 and 4.
For 3, the solution is to not burn straight away. The idea is mainly for game preservation and to own a physical disc that could potentially be played in 20+ years if servers go offline.

digimaster7 said:
kinda delusional if you think sony/nintendo is gonna let you download their game offline as an iso and let you burn your own disc 😂😂😂

also code in a box is missing the entire point of preservation, server goes offline = can't download the game anymore

almost all of these are already solved on PC with GOG/crack, you can do whatever you want with your DRM free game

Digital only future is Inevitable. Its just PC is still better for that because of GOG and crack
Click to expand...

Well delusion is what unites us here.
Code in the box is just to get you the game, the main topic here is the ability to burn your game on a disc. And PC is better now, what will happen after Gabes death and /or when GOG is sold / inherited is unknown.

Tams said:
Burning also wears a drive a lot. They'd be failing in unsustainable numbers and while Sony could protect themselves legally from that, the reputation damage would not be worth it.
Click to expand...
Yes that is a real problem.



In general you can skip all steps and focus on the ability to self write / backup your digital game in physical storage for preservation.
And the only way to convince these companies to commit to offer access to our digital goods is through law only.
 
Embearded said:
I understand 1,2 and 4.
For 3, the solution is to not burn straight away. The idea is mainly for game preservation and to own a physical disc that could potentially be played in 20+ years if servers go offline.



Well delusion is what unites us here.
Code in the box is just to get you the game, the main topic here is the ability to burn your game on a disc. And PC is better now, what will happen after Gabes death and /or when GOG is sold / inherited is unknown.


Yes that is a real problem.



In general you can skip all steps and focus on the ability to self write / backup your digital game in physical storage for preservation.
And the only way to convince these companies to commit to offer access to our digital goods is through law only.
Click to expand...
Just copy your library to external storage (USB drive, HDD, or SSD).
RN1eNZ0jWzBxu5z0.jpeg
 
Embearded said:
And PC is better now, what will happen after Gabes death and /or when GOG is sold / inherited is unknown.
Click to expand...

this is like saying what will happen to my DVD when blockbuster closed down

the entire point is you keep the damn game on your pc and able to keep playing it entirely separate from the platform you bought it from

you can't expect a company to keep in business forever, but the most important thing is you keep what you've bought.

Also I'm not using steam as an example since steam is still a DRM, I'm only using GOG and cracks as example
 
I appreciate that you saved yourself by not posting a poll, OP.

I can't believe I'm saying it, but at this point, game key cards are starting to look pretty good. A small cheap physical item that basically confers ownership as a transferable license that can be gifted or resold is the least worst option.

We need guarantees that games we buy will remain ours. Even if it might not happen, the possibility that our access to the games we bought can simply be revoked is unacceptable.
 
Last edited:
Just give me a portable, DRM free installer (GoG) and each individual update separately, along with a big update file that includes all if i want to go straight to the latest version.

Give me the option to do all that offline. Then i will decide where to install it and which version i want to play.
 
Cfast (CompactFlash) would be the best solution for fast memory since it uses the SATA interface which is already standard in both consoles. Depending on the bandwidth of the card, you might not even need to install the game, running it directly off the card itself. it woudn't be cheap however, especially with the rising cost of flash storage.
 
Embearded said:
I've posted it in another thread that got locked pretty fast. Here it is:

  • Code in a box.
  • Include 1 to n blank blu ray discs
  • Disc drive peripheral is R/W
  • Allow players to burn the game in the blu ray anytime they want and not just the initial release version.
  • When that happens, transfer the digital license to the physical disc.
  • Consoles need to be online when disc enters for the first time. Until it is used on another console, you can play the game discless on your devices with your account.
  • When the time comes and the console is no longer supported, disable any license check on Firmware level.

It doesn't give them the entire margin of digitals, they just don't have the part of the production that writes the discs.
It is better than the current system for game preservation because you store the latest and possibly fixed version instead of day one.
It allows the user to also store digital only releases.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
When it comes to discs writable media died before production pressed media. I think it's time to face it, discs are slowly going the way of floppy drives in an SSD and cloud connected world. Sucks for ownership but switching to recordable discs isn't going to solve anything. If production of recordables was viable then normal pressed discs would be too. The only solution would be to just charge more for discs vs digital but then I bet people wouldn't put their money where their mouth is in that scenario so it really wouldn't solve anything either and discs would still die. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution.
 
There are two main benefits to a physical game distribution:
1. You can sell or lend it.
2. You can be sure that it won't be taken from you due to some licensing issue.
None of what the OP is suggesting helps with either of these two.
 
Reminds me of this thread

Mattyp

Thread 'Sony pulls the plug on recordable Blu-ray Disc manufacturing..'

Sony has announced it will cease production of recordable Blu-ray discs and other physical recording media by February 2025, marking the end of an 18-year run for its Blu-ray Disc media. The decision also impacts MiniDiscs, MD Data discs, and MiniDV cassettes, with the company confirming that no successor products will be introduced..
Click to expand...


Feel this is slightly game relative to cease manufacturing of one section of bluray support on a format they helped shape, so how...
 
Give digital games the possibility to transfer the license to someone else.

You buy a digital game in the PSN store. Now you want to resell it:
Get Code inside your Playstation Menu.
Sell the Code
Continue playing until someone else activates the code.
You get a "game is not registered to this device" message.

Would also be an opportunity for stores like Gamestop.
 
Last edited:
I really feel if Nintendo just said we are releasing everything on cart and you download the rest but at least you get the basic game on cart that would be the end of xbox and sony pretty much. Something is in the air for change and for a company to pounce and take this moment.
 
I think the irony is all of a sudden Nintendo's Game Key Card doesn't feel like that much of a bad solution any more 🙈 You can even call it consumer friendly if you want.

It's cheap to make (relatively speaking). It allows one to sell or lend the game. As long as you still have the downloaded data and the console itself the game will run. So Nintendo's do nothing and win strategy prevails one more time 🤪
 
Last edited:
Embearded said:
I've posted it in another thread that got locked pretty fast. Here it is:

  • Code in a box.
  • Include 1 to n blank blu ray discs
  • Disc drive peripheral is R/W
  • Allow players to burn the game in the blu ray anytime they want and not just the initial release version.
  • When that happens, transfer the digital license to the physical disc.
  • Consoles need to be online when disc enters for the first time. Until it is used on another console, you can play the game discless on your devices with your account.
  • When the time comes and the console is no longer supported, disable any license check on Firmware level.

It doesn't give them the entire margin of digitals, they just don't have the part of the production that writes the discs.
It is better than the current system for game preservation because you store the latest and possibly fixed version instead of day one.
It allows the user to also store digital only releases.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
This is fucking stupid

No offense

But holy shit this was dumb
 
Disc Solution - get over it. Physical media is dead.

No physical games on PC.
No physical games on PlayStation.
No physical games on Xbox.

And even Nintendo has one foot out the door with their fake physical games. They'll be fully out too.

If you were caught off-guard, that's your problem. This was obvious. Intelligent peoole stopped buying physical years ago in preparation for this.
 
Sooner said:
Disc Solution - get over it. Physical media is dead.

No physical games on PC.
No physical games on PlayStation.
No physical games on Xbox.

And even Nintendo has one foot out the door with their fake physical games. They'll be fully out too.

If you were caught off-guard, that's your problem. This was obvious. Intelligent peoole stopped buying physical years ago in preparation for this.
Click to expand...
We're a problem for you too if you haven't figured that out yet. We won't buy PS6, we won't subscribe to PS+, we won't buy games on the PS6. Sony will start to lose some money, they have to make up the money somewhere. Sony is a publicly traded company, the numbers must go up.

So they raise PS+ prices on you. They raise the price of games. They raise the price of the PS6. You've already shown them they can do anything they want to you and you'll keep buying their slop. Have fun with that.
 
Drew1440 said:
Cfast (CompactFlash) would be the best solution for fast memory since it uses the SATA interface which is already standard in both consoles. Depending on the bandwidth of the card, you might not even need to install the game, running it directly off the card itself. it woudn't be cheap however, especially with the rising cost of flash storage.
Click to expand...
Or SD Express like the Switch 2 already uses.

It adds PCIe and NVMe protocols layered on top the legacy SD interface. So same form factor as SD/microSD, but extra pins on the card that give PCIe lanes that can hit up to 3,940MB/s. The PS5 and XSX already use NVMe drives connected over PCIe for expansion. Why go back to SATA which is really slow?
 
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