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[Mr Reasonable]

Embarrassing console warring as usual.

What did you do today? Oh, you know, lunch with some friends, got the car cleaned, learned how to cook a new meal, watched a movie. You?

Complained bitterly for hours because someone might have driven a car at a different speed on one console vs another and someone said 1fps difference wasn't a sign of greatness. I soiled myself twice.

 

[The Fartist]

Embarrassing console warring as usual.

What did you do today? Oh, you know, lunch with some friends, got the car cleaned, learned how to cook a new meal, watched a movie. You?

Complained bitterly for hours because someone might have driven a car at a different speed on one console vs another and someone said 1fps difference wasn't a sign of greatness. I soiled myself twice.

 

[ethomaz]

As impressive as the demo can be at times, it just highlights to me how talented Insomniac are because Spider-Man MM looks just as impressive, if not more so on PS5, at a street level.

Hey the demo is completely way better but way better than what you see in Miles Morales on PS5.

It is way better than what you see in R&C on PS5. They not even comparable that is why it is so impressive.

I get the animation is bad but it not the purpose of the demo… what the demo focus is something g never saw in any other game in the market including PC super high-end machines.

 

[rofif]

As impressive as the demo can be at times, it just highlights to me how talented Insomniac are because Spider-Man MM looks just as impressive, if not more so on PS5, at a street level.

Looks great... but not even close to the tech demo

 

[Tripolygon]

very , very distant from what people was thinnking and screaming about gb/s of streaming ahaahah

No, it is really not. What both Microsoft and Sony are talking about is JIT rendering being able to move data very fast JIT for the rendering of a frame without having to rely upon the data being resident in the faster RAM. This demo streams 10MB/frame, which is not even reaching the capability of what XSX/S can do which is 40MB/frame, and PS5 SSD which can do 90MB/frame. VRAM bandwidth is advertised in hundreds of GB/s but that is not what matters, it is how fast you can move those data/ms that matters.

 

[DarkMage619]

 

[onQ123]

Embarrassing console warring as usual.

What did you do today? Oh, you know, lunch with some friends, got the car cleaned, learned how to cook a new meal, watched a movie. You?

Complained bitterly for hours because someone might have driven a car at a different speed on one console vs another and someone said 1fps difference wasn't a sign of greatness. I soiled myself twice.

Actually I been busy & only spent a few minutes in this thread I posted the video watched it then commented when I seen Alex do that & replied to some people who quoted me. If people stayed in here complaining for hours about that that's on them.

 

[adamsapple]

As impressive as the demo can be at times, it just highlights to me how talented Insomniac are because Spider-Man MM looks just as impressive, if not more so on PS5, at a street level.

This is good, but not nearly as, or more, impressive than the Matrix demo.

 

[Fredrik]

Hey the demo is completely way better but way better than what you see in Miles Morales on PS5.

It is way better than what you see in R&C on PS5. They not even comparable that is why it is so impressive.

I get the animation is bad but it not the purpose of the demo… what the demo focus is something g never saw in any other game in the market including PC super high-end machines.

The truth. I checked out Cyberpunk 2077 on PC, cranked it up to ray-traced ultra. CP2077 has better density in the city, more pedestrians and flashing signs etc, but Matrix is still so far ahead visually in how everything looks close to photo realistic. It’s incredibly impressive. Nothing comes close. Actually makes me kinda depressed because everything I play from now on will be compared to a graphics engine demo. And the framerate sucks so I’m not sure I even want the future that has now infested my brain to the point I’m thinking ”meh” when playing basically everything.

 

[carlosrox]

Obviously it's pretty amazing tech and it looks incredible BUT I'm still disappointed by the frame drops.

Wouldn't it be better to lock it at 30 and sacrifice something or other?

They really should increase the flying speed dramatically. I wanna look at everything but it gets boring once you see how slowly the camera moves.

Fun Easter eggs in here.


Maybe life is a simulation

 

[adamsapple]

Wouldn't it be better to lock it at 30 and sacrifice something or other?

Of course it would, hell it'd be even better if they aim for 60.

This is just a technical demo, made by a small team. I'm fairly certain developers making games will be spending a lot more time doing optimizations than this.

Stalker 2 will be 60 FPS on the Series consoles, so we know it's not an inherent issue with the engine not being able to hit 60 FPS on consoles.

 

[hevy007]

What?
That has nothing to do with the greater or lesser experience of Epic with one or another console, which is what was discussed here for me and that you clearly misinterpreted or just intentionally misrepresented.

Here what is being demonstrated is clearly the feelings that I expressed in that post. That the optimization work of TC in XSeries was essential to have a decent version (especially of XSS) of a demo that Epic had created. That then Epic when optimizing the PS5 version (with which it undoubtedly has more experience) is free to use the same engine optimizations created by TC for the XSeries is a different thing.

From here, it is clear that when you go to point out preferences at the origin of my argument, you are only discovering yourself ..... "The thief thinks that they are all of his condition ...."

Since you're not a native english speaker, I'm having a hard time following what you're trying to say. You say this has nothing to do with Epics experience then go on to say they lack experience with XSX. Of course epic is free to use whatever is pushed to their engine. That's the whole point. I have no idea what that last quote is.

 

[onQ123]

Obviously it's pretty amazing tech and it looks incredible BUT I'm still disappointed by the frame drops.

Wouldn't it be better to lock it at 30 and sacrifice something or other?

They really should increase the flying speed dramatically. I wanna look at everything but it gets boring once you see how slowly the camera moves.

Fun Easter eggs in here.


Maybe life is a simulation

You can do that yourself by lowering the percentage of cars & people in the open world section but the cinematic section is 24fps for a reason

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Embarrassing console warring as usual.

What did you do today? Oh, you know, lunch with some friends, got the car cleaned, learned how to cook a new meal, watched a movie. You?

Complained bitterly for hours because someone might have driven a car at a different speed on one console vs another and someone said 1fps difference wasn't a sign of greatness. I soiled myself twice.

I dont understand comments like these, i get console warring is toxic but, you took time out of your day to bicker about people bickering, and now i took time to complain about you bickering about people bickering about console wars. When will the cycle end!!!!!

 

[Esppiral]

While slighty pretty, I wasn't impressed at all by it's performance.

Most games I've been playing lately constantly target the 60 fps, and the sudden shift back to 30 fps feels extremely bad and choppy.

And this is only is a very scripted / limited tech demo, imagine if it was more free in terms of things to do.

Sure the demo isn't optimize for performance mode, but still....personally this is not what I want from next-gen performance wise.

So you want last gen graphics at 60 fps? Because if you want 60 fps that is what you all will get.

 

[mili2110]

Turn off the Matrix Filter which is active. Looks much Better!!

 

[DenchDeckard]

So you want last gen graphics at 60 fps? Because if you want 60 fps that is what you all will get.

I think they can strike a happy medium. There doesn't need to be as many cars or people on the streets as the matrix demo. I'm believe they can strike a balance...if not then they need to wait until next gen to really push these types of games imo.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is outdated info, Hardware Accelerated Lumen is faster while being higher quality.

Wow. Where was this said? Would love to read more.

 

[makaveli60]

I can’t stop drooling over this demo. Guys, this is what we have been waiting for. This is why we were hyped for these new machines. All through last gen I wanted nextgen to be able to render open world games on the level of The Order 1886. Well, here we go, it’s even better than that. Now imagine linear, corridor type games... our faces will melt like ice cream on the sun. Granted that we get games like that instead of generic multi hero shooter bullshit #8543. But that’s another topic...

Being a fan of the first Matrix film this is especially a unique event for me. Can’t wait for games on this level, so please fellow players, give up your framerate and resolution obsession so we may get them sooner than later.

 

[Lysandros]

AFAIK Nanite only virtualizes cey small triangles below 4x4 pixels or something. The rest are running through primitve/mesh shaders and the regular triangle setup hardware which is running at a higher clock on the PS5.

In that case higher culling rate of PS5 GPU wouldn't be irrelevant to overall performance picture either i think.

 

[RoadHazard]

No doubt. Still, I wasn’t overly impressed with night-time Matrix, and the demo becomes a shitshow slideshow once you drive fast in a car.

The night mode is "experimental", daytime is the intended experience (and what they've optimized for).

 

[onQ123]

So you want last gen graphics at 60 fps? Because if you want 60 fps that is what you all will get.

Not true a few cut backs & optimization could get this same demo to 60fps

 

[RoadHazard]

So you want last gen graphics at 60 fps? Because if you want 60 fps that is what you all will get.

1440p60 can definitely look significantly better than last gen. Look at Ratchet and Demon's. Those are not as big a leap as this demo, but they don't look last gen.

 

[SlimySnake]

I can’t stop drooling over this demo. Guys, this is what we have been waiting for. This is why we were hyped for these new machines. All through last gen I wanted nextgen to be able to render open world games on the level of The Order 1886. Well, here we go, it’s even better than that. Now imagine linear, corridor type games... our faces will melt like ice cream on the sun. Granted that we get games like that instead of generic multi hero shooter bullshit #8543. But that’s another topic...

Being a fan of the first Matrix film this is especially a unique event for me. Can’t wait for games on this level, so please fellow players, give up your framerate and resolution obsession so we may get them sooner than later.

Yep. Went over to my brothers house last night to have him try the demo and we ended up rewatching half of Matrix Reloaded. The chase scene especially looks just as good if not better than the Freeway chase in Reloaded. I actually switched back and forth and the lighting might be even better because they are able to digitally light the scenes during the cutscenes.

I grew up being obsessed with the Matrix. I am obsessed with photorealism in games. I cant tell you how many LOL reactions I have received for saying photorealism at least in environments was possible this gen. So a fucking Matrix demo rewarding my faith is just the cherry on top.

I mean this is realtime.

 

[makaveli60]

Yep. Went over to my brothers house last night to have him try the demo and we ended up rewatching half of Matrix Reloaded. The chase scene especially looks just as good if not better than the Freeway chase in Reloaded. I actually switched back and forth and the lighting might be even better because they are able to digitally light the scenes during the cutscenes.

I grew up being obsessed with the Matrix. I am obsessed with photorealism in games. I cant tell you how many LOL reactions I have received for saying photorealism at least in environments was possible this gen. So a fucking Matrix demo rewarding my faith is just the cherry on top.

I mean this is realtime.

One word.... insane.

 

[adamsapple]

I mean this is realtime.

Indeed. Not just real time ... this is real time running on current console hardware.

This is not a proof of concept or a target render .. this is as real time as it gets.

And to think we spent the first year of this generation arguing over which console ran ports of last gen games better.

We're in for a long generation and we're gonna see some wonderful shit before it's over.

 

[rofif]

Yep. Went over to my brothers house last night to have him try the demo and we ended up rewatching half of Matrix Reloaded. The chase scene especially looks just as good if not better than the Freeway chase in Reloaded. I actually switched back and forth and the lighting might be even better because they are able to digitally light the scenes during the cutscenes.

I grew up being obsessed with the Matrix. I am obsessed with photorealism in games. I cant tell you how many LOL reactions I have received for saying photorealism at least in environments was possible this gen. So a fucking Matrix demo rewarding my faith is just the cherry on top.

I mean this is realtime.

What is even more impressive - there is no trickery. All these cars are fully modeled, the street is not just some small part of map only lookinggood with that angle... no. This is just happening in the same city

 

[SlimySnake]

What is even more impressive - there is no trickery. All these cars are fully modeled, the street is not just some small part of map only lookinggood with that angle... no. This is just happening in the same city

Yeah, the lack of so-called trickery is definitely the most impressive part. The reflections on the cars are not faked. The console is fucking rendering them. Say what you will about AMD's underwhelming RT implementation, but just look at how well its implemented here on the hood of the car.

Then there are the crashes. I replayed the demo and the crashes are different every time. You can even chain them together by saving the final kill shot until you can take out two cars in quick succession and their chaos physics will take the other crash into account.

And then finally the meta human character they created looks just as good as the scanned models of Keanu and Carrie Anne Moss. ND and GG both use real people to model their characters. Abby, Dina and Aloy are all modeled on real actors. Well, they might not need to do that anymore.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

So you want last gen graphics at 60 fps? Because if you want 60 fps that is what you all will get *on consoles.

Edited for clarification.

 

[adamsapple]

And then finally the meta human character they created looks just as good as the scanned models of Keanu and Carrie Anne Moss. ND and GG both use real people to model their characters. Abby, Dina and Aloy are all modeled on real actors. Well, they might not need to do that anymore.

I legitimately thought this character was someone from the upcoming movie, not that this was a completely unique creation.

UE5 is fucking FIRE.

 

[RoadHazard]

Yeah, the lack of so-called trickery is definitely the most impressive part. The reflections on the cars are not faked. The console is fucking rendering them. Say what you will about AMD's underwhelming RT implementation, but just look at how well its implemented here on the hood of the car.

Then there are the crashes. I replayed the demo and the crashes are different every time. You can even chain them together by saving the final kill shot until you can take out two cars in quick succession and their chaos physics will take the other crash into account.

And then finally the meta human character they created looks just as good as the scanned models of Keanu and Carrie Anne Moss. ND and GG both use real people to model their characters. Abby, Dina and Aloy are all modeled on real actors. Well, they might not need to do that anymore.

I do actually think that the generated character is a bit (but not much) less believable than Neo and Trinity. But maybe that's just because with those two I have the original movie characters to compare with (and be amazed by how close their digital counterparts are) while with the new one I have no reference to tell me how "real" she looks.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

This would be impressive as hell if not for low resolution, constant frame deeps and all the post-processing effects that make the image look like pixelated soup every time you turn the camera.

Maybe on Pro consoles. Or on PC. If it's ever released on PC.

 

[NEbeast]

What they actually say in the article,

"At the entry level, it's incredible to see Xbox Series S deliver this at all but it does so fairly effectively"

720p is hot garbage. We're going into 2022.

 

[onQ123]

What is even more impressive - there is no trickery. All these cars are fully modeled, the street is not just some small part of map only lookinggood with that angle... no. This is just happening in the same city

Funny that I was talking about this just before the demo was released

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-matrix-awakens-an-unreal-engine-5-experience-coming-to-ps5.1625231/post-265154885

 

[Fredrik]

Yep. Went over to my brothers house last night to have him try the demo and we ended up rewatching half of Matrix Reloaded. The chase scene especially looks just as good if not better than the Freeway chase in Reloaded. I actually switched back and forth and the lighting might be even better because they are able to digitally light the scenes during the cutscenes.

I grew up being obsessed with the Matrix. I am obsessed with photorealism in games. I cant tell you how many LOL reactions I have received for saying photorealism at least in environments was possible this gen. So a fucking Matrix demo rewarding my faith is just the cherry on top.

I mean this is realtime.

God seeing that second gif makes me want a Driver remake!

And I agree, there is no turning back now, we just need to see if higher fps is also doable on the consoles or if it’s better to invest in PC gaming from now on.

 

[SlimySnake]

I do actually think that the generated character is a bit (but not much) less believable than Neo and Trinity. But maybe that's just because with those two I have the original movie characters to compare with (and be amazed by how close their digital counterparts are) while with the new one I have no reference to tell me how "real" she looks.

Yeah, I can see that now but only after I found out it was not a real person. I wasn't the only one either. Watch the clips on their metahuman tech they unveiled either this year or late last year. they are getting very close to real people.

I legitimately thought this character was someone from the upcoming movie, not that this was a completely unique creation.

UE5 is fucking FIRE.

 

[iHaunter]

PS5 / Series X
- Resolution between 1404p-1620p on avg… in intense parts down to 1080p or lower… uses TSR to reach 4k output.
- Framerate seems better on PS5 (video) but all are bad (see All section).

Series S
- Max 875p but goes below 720p… reaches 1080p output via TSR.
- Feature reduction in detail and RT.

All
- TSR can be disabled in options.
- Framerate is bad.
- Framepacing is bad that even if the game was 120Hz it should be bad… neither VRR can save here.
- Frametime spikes to 100ms.
- Drops can reach low as 20fps.
- Cutscenes are 24fps.

They were very superficial in the article avoiding to make comparisons you can see it is the same new trend of others recent DF articles.

PS. NXGamer probably focused his analysis in a stressing part of the demo that can show 1080p or even lower native resolution in PS5/SeriesX before people call there are different… actually they saw the same things.

The game doesn't even look that good either. What a bad showcase of tech, imho.

At least the NPCs, looked like late PS3 wth.

 

[Negotiator101]

720p is hot garbage. We're going into 2022.

Do you own a Series S?

 

[vpance]

Thought this was going to be underwhelming and it didn't impress on the live stream, so I didn't bother checking it out until now. It looks amazing. The views above the city looks the best though for scale.

Also, CP2177 in UE5 when? lol. Any open world dev doing an urban setting would be stupid not to jump on this.

 

[Negotiator101]

The game doesn't even look that good either. What a bad showcase of tech, imho.

At least the NPCs, looked like late PS3 wth.

What are you comparing it to?

 

[NEbeast]

Do you own a Series S?

Your point ?

 

[Negotiator101]

Your point ?

Well if you don't why are you bothered?

 

[RoadHazard]

The game doesn't even look that good either. What a bad showcase of tech, imho.

At least the NPCs, looked like late PS3 wth.

While I would agree that the NPCs walking around aren't very impressive, I don't understand how anyone can find the chase sequence unimpressive. Sure, it's not gameplay (except for the very limited aiming and shooting you get to do), but just seeing that stuff (especially the main characters) rendered in real-time on $499 consoles is nuts. It's so far above what has ever been done in a game before.

 

[ethomaz]

The game doesn't even look that good either. What a bad showcase of tech, imho.

At least the NPCs, looked like late PS3 wth.

In graphic terms it is better than anything in the market…
Perhaps you played the Series S version?

 

[SlimySnake]

God seeing that second gif makes me want a Driver remake!

And I agree, there is no turning back now, we just need to see if higher fps is also doable on the consoles or if it’s better to invest in PC gaming from now on.

I think Arc Raiders is a good comparison point. That's a game likely targeting 60 fps by ex-DICE devs. It still looks stunning and next gen, but you can tell its not photorealistic. That's going to be the price you pay for 60 fps next gen. I expect 60 fps shooters like CoD, Battlefield and Halo to look more like Arc Raiders than the Matrix which is probably going to get competition from 30 fps games like Hellblade, Spiderman, GTA6, TLOU3, or whatever Sony first party is working on.

 

[NEbeast]

Well if you don't why are you bothered?

"Bothered" , hilarious. Calling out 720p in 2021 is tge same as calling Bungie out for using P2P. Sure, it works but it's below standard. I'm sorry you're so upset by my post.

 

[Darsxx82]

Since you're not a native english speaker, I'm having a hard time following what you're trying to say. You say this has nothing to do with Epics experience then go on to say they lack experience with XSX. Of course epic is free to use whatever is pushed to their engine. That's the whole point. I have no idea what that last quote is.

As you say, English is not my native language and I accept and I apologize if sometimes I may not be expressing myself with due clarity.
That said, there are several posts where I have wanted to define my opinion and feelings and I think they are clear and logical.

It is as simple as that, after that article on Xbox Wire, my feeling that TC's help was essential for the Matrix demo to work decently in XSeries and especially in XSS and that for the PS5 version, Epic did not need so much the direct support of a Sony studio because they are already more than accommodated to their hardware and tools.

Without this TC optimization work, the small Epic team would have suffered to achieve the result that is seen today and who knows if they had considered making only a single PS5 version.

Their experience developing on PS5 is objetively greater and they know their tools better because they even created a specific technical demo. In XSeries his experience is ""nil"" and that is where TC came in, to alleviate that experience deficit with XSeries hardware.
I have never mentioned things like using different mods of the UE5 for each console.
To sumarice, I am referring to the advantage in terms of optimization of the simple experience of having worked with hardware (PS5) for several years (even in its design process) compared to not having (XS). Add that it is an engine in development and that there are still 1000 things to adjust before going to the market and you have the logic that TC was essential for this Matrix demo to be launched in XSeries, more so in this very premature state of UE5. (especially in XSS)

 

[Riky]

720p is hot garbage. We're going into 2022.

1080p isn't great either.
But native resolutions aren't what they used to be with these reconstruction techniques, you should read up on them.

 

[FireFly]

720p is hot garbage. We're going into 2022.

It's a good job that 720p reconstructed to 1080p looks a lot better than native 720p then.

 

[ReBurn]

720p is hot garbage. We're going into 2022.

is there a chart somewhere that correlates dynamic resolution minimums with calendar years for tech demos?