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DF: The Matrix Awakens Tech Analysis + PS5 vs Xbox Series S/X Performance Analysis

. This demo streams 10MB/frame, which is not even reaching the capability of what XSX/S can do which is 40MB/frame, and PS5 SSD which can do 90MB/frame. VRAM bandwidth is advertised in hundreds of GB/s but that is not what matters, it is how fast you can move those data/ms that matters.
Thanks this is the relevant information for SSD speed discussion.

Now all we need is a game that can push 90MB/frame in some circumstances... And see how it looks when scaled to 40 (so we know if it matters... Or if 40 is more than enough in the real world).
 

vpance

Member
In graphic terms it is better than anything in the market…
Perhaps you played the Series S version?

The main thing that takes away from the visuals I feel is the overall low res or softness. It's more noticeable on foot walking around. Also the grainyness of some screen space effects popping around the character and stuff look kinda bad. Would love to see this at a proper framerate and higher res on PC. For a tech demo made by a small group of people it really is great though.

Wish there was a way to jump to the interactive simulation demo part or to toggle the TAA while walking around.
 
900p is hot garbage in the year of the dragon.

2024?

Well hopefully the XSX or the PS5 don't hit 900P in 2024. I know reconstruction can help out a lot but I'm not sure if you can have such good IQ from such a low base resolution.

The matrix demo looked fine on my 4K monitor but granted it isn't a big screen to begin with. No idea what it looks like off a 60 inch screen.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
2024?

Well hopefully the XSX or the PS5 don't hit 900P in 2024. I know reconstruction can help out a lot but I'm not sure if you can have such good IQ from such a low base resolution.

The matrix demo looked fine on my 4K monitor but granted it isn't a big screen to begin with. No idea what it looks like off a 60 inch screen.
I ran it on a 55 inch tv, and it looked excellent.

SX version though, not the SS version.
 
Embarrassing console warring as usual.

What did you do today? Oh, you know, lunch with some friends, got the car cleaned, learned how to cook a new meal, watched a movie. You?

Complained bitterly for hours because someone might have driven a car at a different speed on one console vs another and someone said 1fps difference wasn't a sign of greatness. I soiled myself twice.
Best fucking post in this thread. Bravo😂😂😂😭😭😭
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The game doesn't even look that good either. What a bad showcase of tech, imho.

At least the NPCs, looked like late PS3 wth.

51741829896_aad791d57f_k.jpg

51742070343_b7b8d1df83_k.jpg
 

onesvenus

Member
As you say, English is not my native language and I accept and I apologize if sometimes I may not be expressing myself with due clarity.
That said, there are several posts where I have wanted to define my opinion and feelings and I think they are clear and logical.

It is as simple as that, after that article on Xbox Wire, my feeling that TC's help was essential for the Matrix demo to work decently in XSeries and especially in XSS and that for the PS5 version, Epic did not need so much the direct support of a Sony studio because they are already more than accommodated to their hardware and tools.

Without this TC optimization work, the small Epic team would have suffered to achieve the result that is seen today and who knows if they had considered making only a single PS5 version.

Their experience developing on PS5 is objetively greater and they know their tools better because they even created a specific technical demo. In XSeries his experience is ""nil"" and that is where TC came in, to alleviate that experience deficit with XSeries hardware.
I have never mentioned things like using different mods of the UE5 for each console🤔.
To sumarice, I am referring to the advantage in terms of optimization of the simple experience of having worked with hardware (PS5) for several years (even in its design process) compared to not having (XS). Add that it is an engine in development and that there are still 1000 things to adjust before going to the market and you have the logic that TC was essential for this Matrix demo to be launched in XSeries, more so in this very premature state of UE5. (especially in XSS)
This goes against some things that we know to be true:
- The valley of the ancients demo was showcased on XSX. This means Epic has some experience with developing for Series consoles
- Epic engineers themselves said that TC helped with the main engine optimization, not only the Xbox side of it
 

Ultradsa

Member
Is there the slightest chance that PC will get this demo? I haven't loaded this on my PS5 yet but will shortly but the frame rate sounds crappy to me but I will give it a try and see myself.
 

Darsxx82

Member
This goes against some things that we know to be true:
- The valley of the ancients demo was showcased on XSX. This means Epic has some experience with developing for Series consoles
- Epic engineers themselves said that TC helped with the main engine optimization, not only the Xbox side of it
There is no contradiction ...

-The Valley demo is not a public demo and of XSX we only know a few seconds of footage. For that you do not need help in the optimization knowing that nobody will know aspects such as framerate, bugs, ... Nothing to do with the Matrix demo, nothing to do even in size. This does require a decent optimization as long as it must be played and experienced by the user.

-TC work and help was focused on the optimization of the XSeries versions and especially XSS. That The Coalition-MS allow and contribute so that its advances and improvement of optimization of the UE5 can be used by EPIC in other platforms (mainly PS5) is a different thing.
 

MonarchJT

Banned
I'm not sure why Xbox Series X don't have a advantage when all the sparks are on the screen that seem like it would be compute heavy.
because is a demo created for both console .....console that are very close in performance ...and this is a free. There's no reason to optimize the things more than the minimum necessary....in fact the demos run practically in the exact same way .... (1 frame difference?)
 
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Tazzu

Member
Can someone clarify just what was real and not? The initial Keanu reveal up until the scene with Morpheus seems to be real footage.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member

I guess close-up they do look pretty good huh. Not photorealistic, but far better than pretty much any last gen open world NPCs. However, when you see them at regular walking distance they're not very impressive. I don't know if there's LOD stuff going on (I would assume so, but we know these characters don't use Nanite), but yeah, from a distance they look pretty simple and "gamey".
 

yewles1

Member
Is there the slightest chance that PC will get this demo? I haven't loaded this on my PS5 yet but will shortly but the frame rate sounds crappy to me but I will give it a try and see myself.
I have a suspicion that this will be a bonus for downloading the latest version of UE5 so that you can fully tinker with all the assets.
 

Mr Moose

Member
This goes against some things that we know to be true:
- The valley of the ancients demo was showcased on XSX. This means Epic has some experience with developing for Series consoles
- Epic engineers themselves said that TC helped with the main engine optimization, not only the Xbox side of it
They've been claiming they have no experience with Series consoles for days now, even after I pointed out:


Apparently they know everyone who worked on this demo.

dumb-and-dumber-yell.gif
 

hevy007

Banned
As you say, English is not my native language and I accept and I apologize if sometimes I may not be expressing myself with due clarity.
That said, there are several posts where I have wanted to define my opinion and feelings and I think they are clear and logical.

It is as simple as that, after that article on Xbox Wire, my feeling that TC's help was essential for the Matrix demo to work decently in XSeries and especially in XSS and that for the PS5 version, Epic did not need so much the direct support of a Sony studio because they are already more than accommodated to their hardware and tools.

Without this TC optimization work, the small Epic team would have suffered to achieve the result that is seen today and who knows if they had considered making only a single PS5 version.

Their experience developing on PS5 is objetively greater and they know their tools better because they even created a specific technical demo. In XSeries his experience is ""nil"" and that is where TC came in, to alleviate that experience deficit with XSeries hardware.
I have never mentioned things like using different mods of the UE5 for each console🤔.
To sumarice, I am referring to the advantage in terms of optimization of the simple experience of having worked with hardware (PS5) for several years (even in its design process) compared to not having (XS). Add that it is an engine in development and that there are still 1000 things to adjust before going to the market and you have the logic that TC was essential for this Matrix demo to be launched in XSeries, more so in this very premature
As you say, English is not my native language and I accept and I apologize if sometimes I may not be expressing myself with due clarity.
That said, there are several posts where I have wanted to define my opinion and feelings and I think they are clear and logical.

It is as simple as that, after that article on Xbox Wire, my feeling that TC's help was essential for the Matrix demo to work decently in XSeries and especially in XSS and that for the PS5 version, Epic did not need so much the direct support of a Sony studio because they are already more than accommodated to their hardware and tools.

Without this TC optimization work, the small Epic team would have suffered to achieve the result that is seen today and who knows if they had considered making only a single PS5 version.

Their experience developing on PS5 is objetively greater and they know their tools better because they even created a specific technical demo. In XSeries his experience is ""nil"" and that is where TC came in, to alleviate that experience deficit with XSeries hardware.
I have never mentioned things like using different mods of the UE5 for each console🤔.
To sumarice, I am referring to the advantage in terms of optimization of the simple experience of having worked with hardware (PS5) for several years (even in its design process) compared to not having (XS). Add that it is an engine in development and that there are still 1000 things to adjust before going to the market and you have the logic that TC was essential for this Matrix demo to be launched in XSeries, more so in this very premature state of UE5. (especially in XSS)
Ok i understand a bit better, what I'm saying is, and what you seem to be misunderstanding about engines is to deploy to/test your engine on different platforms is that you must have all the dev kits in order to do so and be well aware of their plans. How do you think studios get their games on to their platform of choice in the first place? Fortnite is also on xbox, how do you think it got there? The engineers who make the deployment tools have to also test that these tools work correctly on each system.

This it how it works, a studio wants to use unreal, if they are an indie team they go to Microsoft and sony...they present their game, say hey we want to put our game on your platform. They get approved. They go back to Epic with proof of this and Epic gives you the version of Unreal that is deployable to those systems. The reason I'm telling you this is because you seem to think or I'm not understanding you correctly that Epic the maker of the engine somehow doesn't know a system that they built tools for others to deploy to even with minimal knowledge and they themselves have a game on.
 
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Nankatsu

Gold Member
So you want last gen graphics at 60 fps? Because if you want 60 fps that is what you all will get.

I mean, for console gaming I would much rather take the 60 fps Performance RT modes you seen in games like Ratchet or Spider-man than this demos current performance. But like, any day.

Now if they further optimize the engine (which I believe they will) and performance takes a decent boost the answer might be other.

Pretty graphics over overall performance simply isn't my cup of tea.
 
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elliot5

Member
This is untrue, Keanu from when you first enter the white space to when they show the clip with morpheus is Real, Him in the mirror when he says "I'm keanu reeves" is also real. THis isn't speculation, it's confirmed.
Morpheus is also "real"
 
I seriously don't understand the people complaining. It is an incredible showcase what will be possible by focusing on current generation consoles only.

Sure, there are still framerate issues, but this is more of a tech demo and it is hard to imagine what some of the studios could get out of the consoles if they only focus on current gen.

And we are only 1 year in the current gen and normally developers get better at pushing the consoles to their limits.
I think that this tech demo is targeted at all the people complaining about the current gen consoles, saying that the framerate and resolution are higher, but there is not the real wow factor. Everyone who doesn't have this wow moment playing or watching this demo can't be serious.
 
No, it is really not. What both Microsoft and Sony are talking about is JIT rendering being able to move data very fast JIT for the rendering of a frame without having to rely upon the data being resident in the faster RAM. This demo streams 10MB/frame, which is not even reaching the capability of what XSX/S can do which is 40MB/frame, and PS5 SSD which can do 90MB/frame. VRAM bandwidth is advertised in hundreds of GB/s but that is not what matters, it is how fast you can move those data/ms that matters.
Good Info, it makes also advantage of PS5s I/O more understandable.
While both Consoles do have fast SSDs and APIs - only PS5 sacrifices a considerable amount of Main Chip Silicon to several I/O subsystems.
Coherency /DMA Controllers and the cache scrubbers - all designed to realy make sure that this 9Gb/s datastream coming from the kraken controller is not held up at any stage later.

Also - 10mb/frame is not trivial either in terms of used up intrinsic GPU bandwidth.
Especially on PC where there is no custom hardware to help out with I/O ..
RTX I/O is not active without MS Direct Storage API ...
I hope some one compiles the Demo on PC UE 5 Editor so that we learn how heavy it is on PCs vintage I/O System.
 

hlm666

Member
Is there the slightest chance that PC will get this demo? I haven't loaded this on my PS5 yet but will shortly but the frame rate sounds crappy to me but I will give it a try and see myself.
I don't think so, everything except the matrix assets (neo, trinity) are going to be released with the ue5 public release early next year. So you are going to see so much of this city next year it's going to be the new rocks.
 
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