RoadHazard
Gold Member
Not cheaper, but the PS5 DE is $100 more. That's a hugely better value in performance per dollar.
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DF: The Matrix Awakens Tech Analysis + PS5 vs Xbox Series S/X Performance Analysis
- Thread starter onQ123
- Start date
Not cheaper, but the PS5 DE is $100 more. That's a hugely better value in performance per dollar.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
Yes, if only a Microsoft 1st party studio was involved in the development of this demo, then they'd be able to show the power of the exclusive DX12 Ultimate features.
Like idk The Coalition.
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Riky
$MSFT
The engine isn't finished yet, The Coalition has already said they expect to have VRS included by the time of release next year, so far that's given a 10-15% performance increase.
"We also have yet to add hardware Variable Rate Shading optimizations which we demonstrated benefits through VRS in Gears 5 on XSX/S, that are not yet in UE5 but The Coalition plans to work with Epic to add. These Xbox-specific advantages are on top of cross-platform optimizations we expect from Epic on the road to UE5 official release next year."
saintjules
Member
timestamp
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MasterCornholio
Member
Pretty sure the coalition wouldn't have allowed the demo to be crap on the Series consoles. With that said the demo seems fine to me besides those performance issues that all platforms have.
Fredrik
Member
Great video! I like that they didn’t forget about how this could affect how often we see 60fps games on the new consoles. That has been my main concern after playing around in the demo a few hours. It looks amazing when things move slowly but at high speeds it’s just stutters and blur everywhere and it’s not impressive from my perspective. As they said, at the next showcase we need to see that the engine can run at stable 60fps.
ethomaz
Banned
It sure can run and we can only guesses how big the trade off will be… at least half of the IQ we are seeing in that demo?
Well a demo in 60fps probably will make people says it looks last gen.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
everyone gets triggered by my tflops per dollar comparison, but i think it's fair since the sx is the second best performance per dollar console by the same metric, and misses the top spot by just a $1.60.
XSS - $300/4 tflops = $75 per tflop
PS5 - $400/10 tflops = $40 per tflop
XSX - $500/12 tflops = $41 per tflop
PS5 - $500/10 tflops = $50 per tflop
i see LOD pop ins on ps5 all the time. you can never eliminate LOL pop in. not even with Nanite.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
As with all Unreal Engine demo assets they will release them on the storefront so we can pick it apart to see how they achieved what they achieved.
Dollar per tflop?
Hahahaha thats an amazing metric my friend.
Whoooo this is gonna be a long generation.
P.S
Rivet
dont start your shit.If you got something to say, say it.
Reacting with triggered emojis to every post of mine is sum'ol'boo'shit.
Man up.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
It’s okay… I’ll give that 1fps and add another for Christmas!! There you have a 2 FPS advantage in a demo… merry Christmas!!
ho ho ho Santa rat!!
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kyliethicc
Member
So PS5 and XBSX perform basically the same again.
8-9 TF overclocked RDNA1
vs
12 TERAFLOPS FULL RDNA2 POWER VELOCITY ARCHITECTURE VRS VRR SFS ML DX12 DXR SUSTAINED PERFORMANCE
And its the fucking same. Silly times.
8-9 TF overclocked RDNA1
vs
12 TERAFLOPS FULL RDNA2 POWER VELOCITY ARCHITECTURE VRS VRR SFS ML DX12 DXR SUSTAINED PERFORMANCE
And its the fucking same. Silly times.
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mansoor1980
Member
cerny delivered with the ps5
So PS5 and XBSX perform basically the same again.
8-9 TF overclocked RDNA1
vs
12 TERAFLOPS FULL RDNA2 POWER VRS VRR SFS ML DX12 DXR SUSTAINED PERFORMANCE
And its the fucking same. Silly times.
Don't put too much salt in the wound.
And this is not just a random comparison.
It's THE full next gen engine that will become the widely adopted standard for many years to come.
This pretty much tells us what to expect for the rest of the gen.
JerryinSoCal
Member
There shouldn't be any arguing about this IMO it's a piece of marketing for a new movie, it's not a real game and frankly if you look closely, you can see a lot of things that make it look more in line with what current gen games were already doing, it's just the lighting and mostly lack of pop in that set it apart from the rest. They have way too many filters going on to make it look like a movie, I like games that are clean and clear not covered up with chromatic aberration and film grain.
ethomaz
Banned
You can disable these “film” filter if you believe that is making it looks so good.
mansoor1980
Member
last years reveal had me thinking that xsx will give better results than ps5 , phil spencer PR had me fooledgave us that overcock
Physiognomonics
Member
No surprises as this has being mainly optimized for Xbox series which has a regular SSD while the first demo was optimized for super fast PS5 SSD. I think many people are starting to realize the first demo is still more impressive.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
Yes the "Matrix Filter" actually decreases immersion overall because it puts a green tint on everything. The demo looks so much better with it off.
MasterCornholio
Member
I really wouldn't put to much blame on Microsoft though. They had every right to market the XSX as being more powerful. It's just that each system has their own strengths so in some situations the PS5 will be ahead whole in others the XSX will perform better.
If anything I would put the blame on those that exaggerated the GitHub leak. I'm guilty for believing there was going to be a massive difference between the two due to that. So happy that isn't the case.
Zathalus
Member
By 'many people' do you mean yourself?
alabtrosMyster
Banned
The problem with flight simulator is probably not the engine, but the fact that nobody can work long enough to model all cities / villages / forests / canyons / baies / falls / rivers / streams / etc. in the amount of details used in a game where you walk or even drive through for the whole planet (prove me wrong and I'll buy 10 copies of the version of flight simulator that allows me to walk and drive around in very detailed environments.
This coverage does sell me on a nex-gen console since I want to 'try this for myself to see this 'stability' in action.
But more so because - DF goes on and on about supposed elimination of pop-in (which in fact, was what I expected we would see based on the promise of the tech), but then:
This entire sequence(~7 seconds) is littered with pretty standard game pop-in (happens right in the center of the view too) - and it's present in all manner of other clips. I find it odd? none of the tech-reviewers(I don't think NxGamer said anything on this either) are mentioning the rather obvious instances, seeing you don't need 400% zoom-in to spot them either.
Or maybe it's because you don't need the zoom? I dunno...
But more so because - DF goes on and on about supposed elimination of pop-in (which in fact, was what I expected we would see based on the promise of the tech), but then:
This entire sequence(~7 seconds) is littered with pretty standard game pop-in (happens right in the center of the view too) - and it's present in all manner of other clips. I find it odd? none of the tech-reviewers(I don't think NxGamer said anything on this either) are mentioning the rather obvious instances, seeing you don't need 400% zoom-in to spot them either.
Or maybe it's because you don't need the zoom? I dunno...
Riky
$MSFT
They obviously didn't read the article on DF
"
Since the first debut of the Lumen in the Land of Nanite demo, there has been the perception that the mass bandwidth of the SSD in PlayStation 5 is what makes the Nanite system possible. However, the whole point of the virtualised texturing system used by Nanite is that it's actually very lightweight in bandwidth - the only detail streamed in is that which is required onscreen at any given point. "This distinguishes it from traditional engines... [with Nanite] it's very gradual," says Michal Valient. "As you move around, it hovers at like 10MB per second, because we stream bits of textures, bits of Nanite data... we stream textures or small tiles as you need them. As you render them, Nanite picks the actual little clusters of triangles you need to render that particular view. And we stream just that, so we don't over-stream too much"
Sort of puts that theory to bed once and for all.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's super weird. I had expected XSX to take a lead especially in next gen games because of their full RDNA 2.0 feature set. And yet, we literally had a first party studio get hired just to make sure this demo was fully optimized for the Xbox series consoles. It's a brilliant move by Microsoft in retrospect and I would love to see the Ice Team and GG devs go in there and help Epic engineers get the most out of the PS5. After playing this demo, i want every Sony studio to drop their proprietary engines and go UE5 only.
I am still only 25 minutes in, but did they mention if Epic is using mesh shaders or VRS or ML in this demo? I think we might be able to put the primitive shader vs mesh shader debate to bed. Especially since more and more xbox first party studios are using UE5 instead of some proprietary engine that will take full advantage of their RDNA 2.0 features supposedly lacking from the PS5.
Do we know if this demo is using VRS? Does UE5 even support it? It's weird because the Valley of the Ancient demo scaled just as you would expect in both RNDA 2.0 cards and in rtx cards. Not sure why the 18% tflops difference shows up on PC, but not here. Really wish DF looked into this a bit more. I keep saying this but we need to compare the 6700xt to the xsx and see if we can determine any bottlenecks. same goes for the 6600xt and ps5 especially since the ps5 should have a memory bandwidth advantage in that comparison.
Not really because even with the same engine games will use it differently so you could get some games using UE5 that will run better on SX then you will get others that run better on PS5 & they will even go back & forth in the same games when different stuff is going on.
RaZoR No1
Member
I know, but this is the first the we get to see the same UE5 tech/demo for both.. and currently! Sony is infront of MS, even if it is by a very small margin.
The first demo was only for PS5 only.
Reasons could be because of the Sony partnership (money) , focus on PS5, works better on PS5 etc.
Nobody knows..
As soon we get the first multiplat UE5 games we will see how the devs will use/adapt to UE5.
IMO none of the devs use either the PS5 or the XSX fully atm, especially if most of the games we get currently are old and current gen games.
Genx3
Member
Epic (a company Sony owns stock in) was bragging about how they optimized Unreal Engine 5 for PS5 and you guys are bragging about the Matrix demo running at 1 FPS better during crash scenes on PS5 an engine designed around the PS5's hardware. Talk about grasping at straws.
Sony buys Epic stock
Sony buys Epic stock
rickybooby87
Member
I blame the lack of a decisive victory on the split memory architecture that currently exists on the XSX. there’s really no other explanation, especially considering the coalition was involved.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
There is absolutely no way that a 1080p frame buffer would saturate 10gb of memory, surely.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Vrs has not been free of artefacts, it's like lowering the resolution in certain parts of the screen... The problem is that it always end up affecting the visible portion of the image. It has been annoying so far and I'm not sure what is best:
Render at a 20% lower resolution to reconstruct with a top of the line scaling technique .. or hope that VRS can find that 20% by smudging parts of the image?
I don't think that you should make fun of others for pitching something you consider secret sauce... Then take out the VRS card as if it would grant some free performance and bring about a new golden age of Xbox gaming.... It's about as good as cloud computing dx12/dx12u, Gamepass, etc. We heard you, Christ will be back alive and kicking.
Lethal01
Member
The simulation is not based on view or distance, it's persistent 100% of the time apparently
Riky
$MSFT
I've seen the results already and detailed breakdowns of the performance gains from both The Coalition and id. So I'm pretty confident what they say is true.
DevilMayFlyForAWhiteGuy
Member
I sort of noticed the lack of pop in, but I also chalked that up to the fact that you can’t really run/fly that fast. The reflections didn’t look that good to me. I’m on a 43” inch TV and this game is only 1080p (or reconstructed 1440p, or whatever it is). Of course the whole game is doing reflections so they may not be the most detailed/highest res. Maybe it looks nicer on a smaller screen. If a game has to go below native native 1440p for RT it’s not worth it imo. Maybe I’d have a different opinion if I was on PC with a smaller monitor
. Like DMC5SE has RT but you have to sacrifice Resolution or Framerate heavily. I’ll take SSR as a compromise in those cases.The lighting was nice though for sure. Can’t wait to see that in more games.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
It's OK a lot are still in the denial stage, maybe negotiation.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Some posters brought up the fact that the extra CUs in the XSX shader arrays might not be getting properly utilized, but yes, I suspect this is a memory bandwidth issue as well.
For last gen games designed around 5GB of VRAM, yes, but this is next gen stuff that likely has a way memory budget. We shockingly dont even know how much RAM is reserved for the PS5 OS, but even if its a massive 4GB compared to the 2.5 GB reserved for the XSX, the PS5 still has access to 2GB of faster ram.
Again, how else would you explain this? we are a year in. This is a next gen engine. Coalition was involved optimizing this. What other explanation could there be for the tflops difference to not materialize? Especially considering we have seen a massive 30% difference in some games earlier this summer.
Rivet
Member
It's only surprising if you don't understand the way those machines work. They're not PCs. They're not similar platfoms where only GPU is different. PS5 (which is neither RDNA1 or overclocked by the way, but I know you're joking) has tons of customizations that competition doesn't have like custom geometry engine allowing to cut a lot of useless work, custom I/O, variable frequency, higher system clock affecting everything, and so on.
Teraflops don't mean shit, a lot of people explained why, but nobody listened for some reason. Everybody preferred listening to uncle Phil's ads, probably because they gave a single number (unlike Cerny's video that nobody understood but actually explained everything, ironically). It looked so simple and it's well known ads don't lie. Well, here we are, right now they don't even perform the same, PS5 has been performing slightly better in majority of games and in every recent comparison.
Those are just two different platforms with different design choices. There's no reason one would be inherently superior to the other, it depends on tons of parameters.
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Riky
$MSFT
But it's not free.
It is for me, Microsoft Paid for it with hardware VRS.
assurdum
Banned
The thing I don't think to not understand why celebrate like a cheerleader when XSX shows 20% of boost in resolution over the ps5 in a dynamic Res setup meanwhile you praise something like VRS which practically did the same with portion of the screen which it's even more visible. I don't get it.
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JimboJones
Member
Awesome video as usual from the DF team, always look forward to their breakdown.
Seems like an even split between both boxes, but seems like PC will be the place to go for better performance at the fidelity they are showing here, just need graphics cards to not be overpriced first
Seems like an even split between both boxes, but seems like PC will be the place to go for better performance at the fidelity they are showing here, just need graphics cards to not be overpriced first
PumpkinPie
Banned
Not sure what everyone else is smoking, but the mouth animations look like shite.