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DF: Chernobylite Ray Tracing Analysis: Gorgeous on PC, but what about PS5?

Some people really need to understand the subject of the video. It's a ray tracing analysis of the game first and foremost. Alex very clearly goes through every ray tracing effect implemented in the PC, highlights the STEEP performance cost of said effects, discusses how ray tracing compares in its low/medium/high/ultra settings, and finally presents recommended settings for various GPU tiers. Extremely informative and useful imo.

With that done he also delves into the ray tracing effects available in the PS5 version and highlights the differences in the ray tracing implementation between the systems. Again, very interesting analysis which highlights the various ways developers handle console ray tracing.

That's it. Nobody is "putting the PS5" down Vs overpowered and ultra expensive PCs. He is in no way saying play PC and don't play PS5 (I mean those stutters are horrendous). Yes ultimately PS5 will suffer when it comes to ray tracing feature set Vs PC but that's expected. But that's not the point of the video whatsoever.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member

What is that thing behind his TV? *squints*

Colin Farrell Idk GIF




He's said as much before. Maybe the publishers only sent PS5 keys.
 

assurdum

Banned
Are you seeing info about all pc gaming on the video? Or just some info about only 1 game?
I don't understand what you talking about now. The only thing I can say it's normal to expect a comparison between a ps5 and a comparable pc hardware in a video analysis about the performance of a game in the two hardware. It's not because you don't care it's not worth it. DF it's about console gaming and pc, not just for pc master race.
 
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yamaci17

Member
No one plays games on PC to have the exactly same experiences than on console. If so there would not have any reason to play games on PC as the hardware prices are higher.
speak for yourself. if i have a 2060s/3060, i will gladly experience RT with matched console settings. there's no point of pushing things further when you don't have more headroom.

PC price have always been higher. Just nowadays its at an extreme point. Even then, a modest 2060s PC could be built for 600-700 dollars back in 2020. it provides a potentially better experience in terms of ray tracing than ps5 (1080p native rt medium 50-60 fps versus 1512p rt low (with lower than lows) with a locked 30 fps) judder of 30 frames is enough to offset any potential clarity advantages 1512 may bring over 1080p anyways

i play on PC because this is my preferred platform. and when needs be, i will gladly select optimized console settings as my baseline for best optimal performance (even it has cutbacks)
 
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DarkMage619

Member
Some people really need to understand the subject of the video. It's a ray tracing analysis of the game first and foremost. Alex very clearly goes through every ray tracing effect implemented in the PC, highlights the STEEP performance cost of said effects, discusses how ray tracing compares in its low/medium/high/ultra settings, and finally presents recommended settings for various GPU tiers. Extremely informative and useful imo.

With that done he also delves into the ray tracing effects available in the PS5 version and highlights the differences in the ray tracing implementation between the systems. Again, very interesting analysis which highlights the various ways developers handle console ray tracing.

That's it. Nobody is "putting the PS5" down Vs overpowered and ultra expensive PCs. He is in no way saying play PC and don't play PS5 (I mean those stutters are horrendous). Yes ultimately PS5 will suffer when it comes to ray tracing feature set Vs PC but that's expected. But that's not the point of the video whatsoever.
Plus one can't overlook that the performance of the game was very stable on PS5. Maybe Alex was just showing off how favorably it stands up to high powered PCs. Not everything is a conspiracy against Sony.
 

rodrigolfp

Member
I don't understand what you talking about now. The only thing I can say it's normal to expect a comparison between a ps5 and a comparable pc hardware in a video analysis about the performance of a game in the two hardware. It's not because you don't care it's not worth it. DF it's about console gaming and pc, not just for pc master race.
Cool. I agree there and didn't say I care or not. More info = better. But price differences, again, are irrelevant.
speak for yourself. if i have a 2060s/3060, i will gladly experience RT with matched console settings. there's no point of pushing things further when you don't have more headroom.

PC price have always been higher. Just nowadays its at an extreme point. Even then, a modest 2060s PC could be built for 600-700 dollars back in 2020. it provides a potentially better experience in terms of ray tracing than ps5 (1080p native rt medium 50-60 fps versus 1512p rt low (with lower than lows) with a locked 30 fps) judder of 30 frames is enough to offset any potential clarity advantages 1512 may bring over 1080p anyways

i play on PC because this is my preferred platform. and when needs be, i will gladly select optimized console settings as my baseline for best optimal performance (even it has cutbacks)
Not sure what your point is, but the fact that you can choose to match console settings is already one difference between console and pc gaming and one reason why people play on pc.
 
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Kuranghi

Member
Yes, GTFO with these shader stutters, I won't buy any game that has that any more. Even old console games like Shadow of the Colossus on PS2 running at 18 fps is better than this because at least its not a sudden spike that completely ruins the experience. Frametime spikes of 500/1500ms are like someone covering your eyes for 1.5 seconds during a film, just unacceptable really.

Its gonna take a long while to totally eradicate this shit I bet, if its present in UE5 titles I will fly to Tim Sweeney's house using my own propulsion and incinerate him.

poo satisfying GIF
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
I'd rather play it at +120 fps than have some reflections I'll never notice and brighter areas once in a while. Raytracing current gen is not worth it, regardless if its ddgi, rtgi, shadows, etc. Maybe once the 5k series hit and ps6 is out we will finally have games built from ground up with ray traced lighting. Until then, high framerate + high resolution wins.


Ray Tracing is very much worth it and reflections are one small part of the entire feature set. Everything can be ray traced, and thats where we're heading now. We also have fast enough gpu's right now for every RT game to run well. The sticking point is that its mostly reserved for 3080 and 90 cards at the moment. Also depends on the games being played. Dying Light 2 in particular, that game is just complete and utter shit without RT. I'd rather take a framerate hit from 144 to 60 than play it without RT. Have a look at these various comparisons:


Chernobylite on the other hand, medium setting as in the video i think its good - it is a game in forest areas after all. It depends very much on the visual makeup of the game in order to see if RT is worth the hit. Guardians of the Galaxy is just phenomenal with RT because of its sci fi nature and having a lof of rough metal surfaces all throuhout:

 

ClosBSAS

Member
ps5 gpu is on par with a 2070 super, xbox is on par with 2080s...neither of them are enbough to take on rtx, neither were those gpus for pc when they came out...a 2080ti was not enough to run metro exodus with rt at 60....the fact that consoles can do rt is a miracle, its very fresh still and only worth it in a few games....when its well implemented it can look amazing, such are the cases for cyberpunk 2077,tokyo ghost, control and metro exodus enhanced ediiton.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
ps5 gpu is on par with a 2070 super, xbox is on par with 2080s...neither of them are enbough to take on rtx, neither were those gpus for pc when they came out...a 2080ti was not enough to run metro exodus with rt at 60....the fact that consoles can do rt is a miracle, its very fresh still and only worth it in a few games....when its well implemented it can look amazing, such are the cases for cyberpunk 2077,tokyo ghost, control and metro exodus enhanced ediiton.


With the exception of Call of Duty and Valhalla which run poor on nvidia, not a single game on the market has exceeded a 2070Super. Every game is between 2060S and 2070S in rare ocassions.
 
Some people really need to understand the subject of the video. It's a ray tracing analysis of the game first and foremost. Alex very clearly goes through every ray tracing effect implemented in the PC, highlights the STEEP performance cost of said effects, discusses how ray tracing compares in its low/medium/high/ultra settings, and finally presents recommended settings for various GPU tiers. Extremely informative and useful imo.

With that done he also delves into the ray tracing effects available in the PS5 version and highlights the differences in the ray tracing implementation between the systems. Again, very interesting analysis which highlights the various ways developers handle console ray tracing.

That's it. Nobody is "putting the PS5" down Vs overpowered and ultra expensive PCs. He is in no way saying play PC and don't play PS5 (I mean those stutters are horrendous). Yes ultimately PS5 will suffer when it comes to ray tracing feature set Vs PC but that's expected. But that's not the point of the video whatsoever.
What type of PC though? I think that's the question. And an argument on whether or not it would be better to compare a $399 console with a $399 PC.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
What type of PC though? I think that's the question. And an argument on whether or not it would be better to compare a $399 console with a $399 PC.

But why.

The point of this video was to show the ray tracing features and how it effects performance with each rung of presets (Low, medium, high, ultra) and then compare with console to see what had to be pared back to run on the fixed spec hardware. The video isn't about trying to match specs or prices.

We know very well a $399 PC will not give the same kind of performance, it may not even run the game. But that's not the point.


LMFAO... No.

Games vary but going by the Forza Horizon 5 feature, this is what DF said:


 

adamsapple

Gold Member
fsr 1.0 is already used in console games, you most likely didn't notice cuz its almost useless

I'mma be honest, the only game I can find by name that uses FSR is the Myst remake, and now the Xbox version of this Chernboylite.

I can't find any resource online which lists any other game on consoles which uses FSR.
 

DJ12

Member
- Whole suite of RT effects (on PC)
- PC version has an exclusive "virtual tourism" to just explore.
- High texture quality and all vegetation is captured in RT reflections.
- RT on Translucency , caustics and GI are praised

- PC version with RT on low causes 34% performance loss.
- High and Ultra refine effects with similar big performance losses with each tier.
- Alex mentions his recommended settings during the course of the video on PC.

- PS5 has Performance mode (1080p/60 and no RT) and Quality mode 1512p / 30 FPS with RT.
- PS5 makes cuts in RT GI, caustics, translucency.
- Rt reflections are included but quality is below the Low preset on PC and more aggressive culling and draw distance range.

- Video ends with Alex talking about the dreaded shader compilation stutter on PC that happens every time something happens for the first time.
You could tell the console versions don't stack up as its ps5 and not Series x compared against the much better pc version.

But of course, there's no agenda from df, no none at all........
 
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yamaci17

Member
ps5 is nearly on the power level of rx 6600xt. maybe a tad bit higher (due to higher memory bandwdith) 10.2 tflops of rdna2. go check it out
ps5 and xbox sx performance is mostly between 6600xt and 6700xt. and both gpus are seperated by a %14 margin at 4K. between them are a lot of GPUs





in terms of ray tracing however, 6600xt equals out with a 3060, not a 2080

consoles run Metro Exodus EE ray tracing at normal setting (lowest),

At 1440p both GPUs average 51 and 52 frames at 1440p and 73 and 79 frames at 1080p in one of the most demanding scenes in the game (see the picture in the upper left. Yamantau section is being benchmarked)




"In the Yamantau section here, one of the heavier areas in the game, I was getting like 1134p SX and 1015p on PS5"

So at 1080p, both 6600xt and 3060 have more than that, probably consoles heave some headroom (due to dynamic resolution being in play)

So, it's not a miracle. And no, it does not run "specifically" good on consoles. It just runs how it is meant to run. Exact same GPU performs exactly like how you expect it to perform. If you have PS5 equivalent GPU on PC (ala 6600xt), you get exact same RT performance out of it. Maybe a bit more, if you don't employ dynamic resolution and use a VRR-uncapped config instead.

The game has a heavy RT setting which you can avoid to use and get enormously high framerates.

With that config (RT normal+1440p) a 2080ti/3060ti would easily provide a native 1440p 60 FPS easily. Either compare apples to apples or do not compare at all. You can use that extra RT juice to push a higher RT setting, but then you have to accept performance drop or not getting that sweet native 1440p 60 FPS.

ps5 is not afar from 2080 super. 2080 is not afar from 2080 either. so if you accept that ps5 is nearly a rtx 2080 in terms of raster (which it is), then you should not laugh at someone says ps5 performs like a 2080 super. because literally, 2080 and 2080 super is so close, and 2080 is equal to a 6600xt and four of them have a performance profile so close that you can mistake one for another (ps5, 6600xt, 2080 and 2080 super). only and only ray tracing would seperate 2080 and 2080 super from this equation. in that case, 6600xt stays constant but 3060/2060 super/2070 comes into discussion instead).

i couldn't be more specific. ps5 being equal to rtx 2080 is not a miracle by itself. rtx 2080 literally is a 10 tflops turing GPU. and 6600xt is a literal 10 tflops rdna2 gpu. and flop for flop, rdna2 and turing gpus are pretty matched up. you can see that by analyizing and noticing that 2080 and 6600xt has nearly same performance in games, same tflops and similar performance profiles. with that respect, ps5 being practically a 6600xt equivalent hardware, it is also practically a 2080 equivalent hardware. and 2080 being very close to 2080 super ( a small %9 deficit which optimizations and headroom can easily cover up for), ps5 is also very close to 2080 super, and by virtue, to 3060ti because it is literally only %3-4 faster than a 2080 super. in total, 3060ti only provides a small %12 over 6600xt, which is what ps5 stands for)

And here is the problem with you guys. 6600xt by itself may cost more than PS5. But it is literally the PS5 GPU. If you expect this GPU to hit 1440p 60 FPS with ray tracing just becaused you paid more, than you selected PC for wrong and misguided reasons. It is only capable as much as PS5 is capable. And that is a dynamic 1440p with a range between 1080p and 1440p at Normal RT settings. Not High and Ultra settings. Even High is a huge performace drop from RT normal setting. Either suck it up and play with that specifically optimized setting which looks good and fantastic for all reasons and purposes, or pay up even more money and don't get a 6600xt. But if you indeed have a 6600xt, playing with RT normal setting is your only way for a consistent 60 fps like PS5 does.
 
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DJ12

Member
The TV is capable of VRR, just the Freesync Ultimate kind, which some people said is working with the PS5 on GAF and elsewhere.
So it's capable of freesync, not vrr. Contrary to popular belief they are not interchangeable terms.
 

winjer

Member
ps5 is nearly on the power level of rx 6600xt. maybe a tad bit higher (due to higher memory bandwdith) 10.2 tflops of rdna2. go check it out
ps5 and xbox sx performance is mostly between 6600xt and 6700xt. and both gpus are seperated by a %14 margin at 4K. between them are a lot of GPUs





in terms of ray tracing however, 6600xt equals out with a 3060, not a 2080

consoles run Metro Exodus EE ray tracing at normal setting (lowest),

At 1440p both GPUs average 51 and 52 frames in one of the most demanding scenes in the game (see the picture in the upper left. Yamantau section is being benchmarked)




"In the Yamantau section here, one of the heavier areas in the game, I was getting like 1134p SX and 1015p on PS5"

So at 1080p, both 6600xt and 3060 have more than that, probably consoles heave some headroom, but a res drop is a res drop regardless.

So, it's not a miracle. No, it does not run "specifically" good on consoles. It just runs how it is meant to run. Exact same GPU performs exactly like how you expect it to perform. If you have PS5 equivalent GPU on PC (ala 6600xt), you get exact same RT performance out of it. Maybe a bit more, if you don't employ dynamic resolution and use a VRR-uncapped config instead.

The game has a heavy RT setting which you can avoid to use and get enormously high framerates.

With that config (RT normal+1440p) a 2080ti/3060ti would easily provide a native 1440p 60 FPS easily. Either compare apples to apples or do not compare at all. You can use that extra RT juice to push a higher RT setting, but then you have to accept performance drop or not getting that sweet native 1440p 60 FPS.

ps5 is not afar from 2080 super. 2080 is not afar from 2080 either. so if you accept that ps5 is nearly a rtx 2080 in terms of raster (which it is), then you should not laugh at someone says ps5 performs like a 2080 super. because literally, 2080 and 2080 super is so close, and 2080 is equal to a 6600xt and four of them have a performance profile so close that you can mistake one for another (ps5, 6600xt, 2080 and 2080 super). only and only ray tracing would seperate 2080 and 2080 super from this equation. in that case, 6600xt stays constant but 3060/2060 super/2070 comes into discussion instead).

i couldn't be more specific. ps5 being equal to rtx 2080 is not a miracle by itself. rtx 2080 literally is a 10 tflops turing GPU. and 6600xt is a literal 10 tflops rdna2 gpu. and flop for flop, rdna2 and turing gpus are pretty matched up. you can see that by analyizing and noticing that 2080 and 6600xt has nearly same performance in games, same tflops and similar performance profiles. with that respect, ps5 being practically a 6600xt equivalent hardware, it is also practically a 2080 equivalent hardware. and 2080 being very close to 2080 super ( a small %9 deficit which optimizations and headroom can easily cover up for), ps5 is also very close to 2080 super, and by virtue, to 3060ti)

Just one correction. In terms of RT, the 6600XT is closer to an RTX 2060. Sometimes it beats the 2060, sometimes it loses.
And in some games, it matches the RTX 3050.

 
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Mr Moose

Member
I'mma be honest, the only game I can find by name that uses FSR is the Myst remake, and now the Xbox version of this Chernboylite.

I can't find any resource online which lists any other game on consoles which uses FSR.
1.0? A few games use it.
Ghostwire, Cyberpunk and that Lego game use it.
 

yamaci17

Member
Just one correction. In terms of RT, the 6600XT is closer to an RTX 2060. Sometimes it beats the 2060, sometimes it loses.
And in some games, it matches the RTX 3050.

it also depends on how heavy RT settings are


here alex talks about incoherent rays harming AMD's RT performance more than Nvidia. that's why at RT normal setting, 6600xt can match 3060, because its raster can shine more . in the benchmarks you posted, it seems like very heavy RT settings are used across games. I'm seeing 21 FPS in Cyberpunk with RT, that should mean they enabled all the whistles and bells (rt gi, rt shadows, rt reflections all the stuf). 6600xt with only rt shadows (like consoles) should perform way better than a 21 fps average at 1080p


with rt medium (rtgi+shadows), it pushes 30+ frames at 1080p
with rt high (rtgi+shadows+reflections) it pushes 20-22 frames at 1080p (similar to techpowerup benchmark you've posted)
there's no rt low benchmark (only rt shadows like consoles). you could probably get away with 1440p/30 fps like ps5 with only rt shadows. but i couldn't find a a video. if anyone have a 6600xt here, i would like them to test it out

its clear though that heavy rt settings harm the performance in a really bad way on AMD GPUs

don't get me wrong, you are also right in some aspects. but if you let raster power of rdna2 shine a bit more, it can average better framerates :) which is what console devs are doing (andthat is how PC people should approach to ray tracing with limited power)






with rt normal, difference is 1.73 times (137 vs 79)
with rt high, difference is 1.9 times (122 vs 64)
with rt ultra, difference is 2.15 times (97 vs 45)

as you can see, if you ease up on RT intensity, AMD card can hold its own eight!
 
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01011001

Member
I'mma be honest, the only game I can find by name that uses FSR is the Myst remake, and now the Xbox version of this Chernboylite.

I can't find any resource online which lists any other game on consoles which uses FSR.

doesn't Ghostwite Tokyon on PS5 use FSR for some bizarre reason even tho the game supports TSR?
 
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adamsapple

Gold Member
doesn't Ghostwite Tokyon on PS5 use FSR for some bizarre reason even tho the game supports TSR?

You're right, John thinks it's FSR but not 100% sure, and there's no other mention online.

You'd think more developers would want to highlight it as a feature.

Next up is the 60Hz performance mode. Again, pixel-counting is challenging but results suggest a static resolution in the circa 1440p area (seemingly using AMD FSR to upscale back to 2160p), with ray tracing effects disabled.


1.0? A few games use it.
Ghostwire, Cyberpunk and that Lego game use it.


Thanks !

I can't find any place that confirms Cyberpunk using FSR on console tho.

So it's capable of freesync, not vrr. Contrary to popular belief they are not interchangeable terms.

Freesync is also VRR. It's just not the HDMI forum's version of VRR.

Some people are able to get VRR working on PS5 where their displays only support Freesync Ultimate, not the HDMI standard VRR. So it's still a mixed bag there.
 
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01011001

Member
You're right, John thinks it's FSR but not 100% sure, and there's no other mention online.

that should be telling, if you cannot really tell... and even while he thought there was upscaling it was still apparently really easy to count the internal res.
 
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