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[Malakhov]

If asking you to discuss your anecdotes is jumping on you then no, I don't think I will. Happy jumper here.

I stated it was not worth it to can't decide, that pretty much means I had no desire to discuss it.

Yet you went for it

Keep jumping however you want, I'll keep addressing users directly in a thread without going to private messages

 

[segasonic]

Nevermind, it's not worth it. The brother of a friend died a week after getting his second shot, my ex father in law was hospitalized after getting his second shot for heart problems, my girlfriend's aunt is now hospitalized after her second shot

But it's all anecdotal and b.s

Of course that is anecdotal. When you vaccinate more than 50% of a population in just a few months, thousands will die within a short time span after getting the vaccine.

This is not how you prove that something does or doesn‘t kill you.

 

[BadBurger]

Dayton Children’s CEO: ‘We need our children masked in school’

Gov. Mike DeWine and Ohio pediatric hospital officials said besides vaccination, mask wearing is the best way to make sure that children can stay in the school amid the surge in cases among kids and the rest of the population. Meanwhile, children's hospitals are seeing staggering demand, with...

www.springfieldnewssun.com

ODH data shows 44% increase in COVID cases among school-aged kids in past week.
...
Over a two-week period that ended Sept. 4, there was an average of 909 cases per 100,000 for school-aged children in Ohio, compared to 561 cases per 100,000 for all other Ohioans, he said. And this past week, there was a 44% increase in cases among school-aged children and a 17% increase for all others, according to Ohio Department of Health data. Also, there has been a 2,000% increase in cases among Ohio children since early July when the delta variant began to surge.

Another example of how these spikes take a few weeks to build up, then seem to come out of nowhere. Ohio hospitals will be overwhelmed for a few weeks now, and these cases with children are only going to increase - masks or not - if we leave them in schools.

I saw on ABC World News Tonight that the vaccine trials for children as young as 14 months old are picking up. So hope on the horizon there.

 

[Rentahamster]

My classmate's uncle who works at Nintendo says that Micro$oft is going to acquire Pfizer.

 

[Rentahamster]

The anxiety over long term effects is overblown.

The Long-Term Safety Argument over COVID-19 Vaccines - Boston Review

Concerns about long-term side effects have helped fuel vaccine hesitancy. An immunologist explains why we can be confident in vaccine safety.

bostonreview.net

Vaccine hesitancy remains a very serious and costly obstacle for many countries, with the United States very much in the spotlight. While some hesitancy is rooted in longer trends, much of it appears to be driven by coordinated disinformation campaigns specific to this pandemic. Despite highly impressive safety profiles, strong efficacy, and continually encouraging data showing real-world vaccine effectiveness, numerous spurious and scientifically illiterate arguments to avoid the jab are reaching millions of people each day.

Perhaps the most stubborn challenge, however, is the contention that we lack “long-term” safety data for the vaccines. Assertions have been made on widely viewed broadcast media that the recent FDA approval has been rushed. The mRNA shots seem to attract the lion’s share of this particular scare, due to the claim that these are “new” technologies. Given their novelty, the worry goes, we need more data before we can make a more informed decision about how they might impact us in the long run. Comparisons are made to regulatory timelines for other medical products, with an apparent implication that corners were cut to recklessly fast-track approval—rather than streamlined, intelligent, and innovative trial design and coordinated efforts being responsible for their rapid availability in a time of great need.

On their face, long-term safety concerns appear reasonable for those trying to navigate their way through a misinformation minefield of bad takes, poor information, and incorrect assertions. But they are also regularly trotted out by the most ardent, bad faith antagonists of our best vaccination efforts, and in their most simplistic form they boil down to little more than the objection that we cannot be absolutely certain what the future holds. By that impossibly high standard, you should not leave your house tomorrow, lest you get struck by a car. The truth is that we have overwhelming evidence that COVID-19 vaccines are safe for the vast majority of people, with a small fraction of legitimate medical exemptions excluded.

Importantly, vaccines do not remove or significantly attenuate biological functions in your body that can increase risk of opportunistic infections, as could be the case for tofacitinib or secukinumab. Also, and in contrast to many other drugs taken for extended periods of time, a vaccine is typically a single intervention, split over one or more doses (potentially with boosters to follow).

To put vaccine risk in perspective, consider the most frequent serious adverse event in any demographic: the rate of myocarditis in younger males. According to available evidence, if Fenway park were filled to capacity with some 37,000 fully vaccinated men aged 18 to 24, just two might experience transient myocarditis. By contrast, if all 37,000 of these men were unvaccinated and infected with the delta variant, many more would experience a diverse array of clinical outcomes, including extended periods in hospital, virus-induced myocardial injury, and diverse post-acute health complications described as “long COVID.” In other words, the sum of the diverse risks associated with vaccination are dwarfed by the diverse and incompletely understood risks posed by the novel coronavirus.

 

[BadBurger]

Benjamin Franklin in his autobiography said:

“In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the smallpox taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of the parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen.”

 

[12Goblins]

The data has many steps along the way where somebody can manipulate it, or miss something out, or say it was something else. What can't be manipulated is what you see with your own eyes in your own environment, that which is happening in the real time, right in front of you.
His sister's death as far as he said hasn't been listed as vaccine related, despite her dropping almost immediately after injection and symptoms being exactly that of others that have been listed as dying due to vaccine.

He was never the conspiracy theorist type but seeing half his family immediately dying has also immediately turned him into one, and I don't blame him after what he's going through, he's now fully convinced that the vaccine is here to reduce the population.

turned him into a conspiracy theorist huh

 

[Can't decide]

How are we supposed to prove anecdotal evidence, especially to people with blind faith that scientists haven't screwed this up?

Literally the only thing I could have done is to steal his phone and upload his messages for you to see, and you guys both know that and how unreasonable that would be.
You guys don't want to be wrong, you'll go against anything that might suggest you've made a foolish choice.

You lot prance around as being humane while being the opposite.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

How are we supposed to prove anecdotal evidence, especially to people with blind faith that scientists haven't screwed this up?

What is more likely:
A. Scientists, professionals with decades of experience are wrong?
B. Random shit who Googles stuff on the Internet and voices opinions on something he has no education nor experience with is wrong?

All this reminds me of Richard Dawkins and the debate if God exists or not - it’s not 50/50 chance, yet it is presented as a viable hypothesis. Same with all the BS against vaccines.

 

[funkygunther]

How are we supposed to prove anecdotal evidence, especially to people with blind faith that scientists haven't screwed this up?

Literally the only thing I could have done is to steal his phone and upload his messages for you to see, and you guys both know that and how unreasonable that would be.
You guys don't want to be wrong, you'll go against anything that might suggest you've made a foolish choice.

You lot prance around as being humane while being the opposite.

literally anything would do, you've given nothing so far...and I'm not asking for proof that you have some text messages but rather more information on these specific cases and deaths

so, cause of death confirmed by a doctor to substantiate these claims: "This isn't even the first time a colleague has told me about healthy family members dying shortly after taking the vaccine"

cause of symptoms and deaths confirmed by a doctor to substantiate these claims: "despite her dropping almost immediately after injection and symptoms being exactly that of others that have been listed as dying due to vaccine"

have all the above been confirmed, or are you using your imagination? If the former, please provide us some information on these diagnoses...that last one you specifically said have been listed as dying due to the vaccine so should be an easy starting point

you want to discuss a causal link, time for you to start discussing it

 

[Maiden Voyage]

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

I think I love you.

 

[12Goblins]

How are we supposed to prove anecdotal evidence, especially to people with blind faith that scientists haven't screwed this up?

Literally the only thing I could have done is to steal his phone and upload his messages for you to see, and you guys both know that and how unreasonable that would be.
You guys don't want to be wrong, you'll go against anything that might suggest you've made a foolish choice.

You lot prance around as being humane while being the opposite.

you gotta give us a little more to work with bud. right now you're trying to convince us that reading tea leaves is real.

 

[12Goblins]

lesson in critical thinking

 

[BadBurger]

Quite frankly, if three people within a single family fell immediately ill or even perished from any of the vaccines it would be international news. Each country reports reactions to the vaccines to their respective health agencies (or a division within them). Even without revealing PHI the information would get out, as the chances of such a thing happening are infinitesimally low.

This definitely qualifies as an extraordinary claim.

 

[poppabk]

How are we supposed to prove anecdotal evidence, especially to people with blind faith that scientists haven't screwed this up?

Literally the only thing I could have done is to steal his phone and upload his messages for you to see, and you guys both know that and how unreasonable that would be.
You guys don't want to be wrong, you'll go against anything that might suggest you've made a foolish choice.

You lot prance around as being humane while being the opposite.

You are missing the point. I know people are doubting your friends unfortunate situation, but even if you could give definitive proof it still wouldn't change the data we have on safety. If I had a relative die from eating peanut butter, and two have severe anaphylaxis, I would be scared shitless when trying peanut butter for the first time - but it wouldn't mean that no-one should eat peanut butter.

 

[BadBurger]

A YouTuber with 1.6 million followers urged fans to get vaccinated before dying of COVID-19 complications

YouTuber Brandon Ashur, known online as Bashurverse or Toasty, wasn't vaccinated against COVID-19, according to a moderator of his Discord.

www.insider.com

 

[Chaplain]

 

[MastaKiiLA]

How are we supposed to prove anecdotal evidence, especially to people with blind faith that scientists haven't screwed this up?

Literally the only thing I could have done is to steal his phone and upload his messages for you to see, and you guys both know that and how unreasonable that would be.
You guys don't want to be wrong, you'll go against anything that might suggest you've made a foolish choice.

You lot prance around as being humane while being the opposite.

You want to claim the scientists could have screwed up, while exhibiting an obvious ignorance of how science works. How would you expect rational people to reply to bullshit?

 

[Nobody_Important]

The data has many steps along the way where somebody can manipulate it, or miss something out, or say it was something else. What can't be manipulated is what you see with your own eyes in your own environment, that which is happening in the real time, right in front of you.
His sister's death as far as he said hasn't been listed as vaccine related, despite her dropping almost immediately after injection and symptoms being exactly that of others that have been listed as dying due to vaccine.

He was never the conspiracy theorist type but seeing half his family immediately dying has also immediately turned him into one, and I don't blame him after what he's going through, he's now fully convinced that the vaccine is here to reduce the population.

Well your friend (if he exists) is an idiot.


Because even IF there was some kind of grand conspiracy by the scientific community and the governments of the world to "reduce the population" they wouldn't be doing it by handing out a vaccine that has been proven to be safe and effective against Covid for free. They would just pretend they can't protect us and then just let Covid do it's work. Instead they put together a vaccine that not only works, but works really well in record time. Then they have strongly pushed for the vaccine in order to save as many live as they can. Why would they do that if their goal was to "reduce the population"?


Next time you see your friend I would mention that to them. That or suggest they seek help from a mental health specialist.

 

[Jaysen]

“CNN will never cover it!”

 

[Nobody_Important]

“CNN will never cover it!”

 

[FunkMiller]

It’s incredible and shocking how unlucky people are on this specific thread on this specific forum. What are the odds of two people who express anti vaccine views knowing lots of people who have died from Covid vaccines? Given how safe and effective the vaccines have been proved to be? Millions to one, I say.

So. Incredibly. Unlucky.

 

[Thaedolus]

It’s incredible and shocking how unlucky people are on this specific thread on this specific forum. What are the odds of two people who express anti vaccine views knowing lots of people who have died from Covid vaccines? Given how safe and effective the vaccines have been proved to be? Millions to one, I say.

So. Incredibly. Unlucky.

I got vaccinated in April and almost shit my pants this morning. Tide goes in tide goes out, you can’t explain that

 

[poppabk]

It’s incredible and shocking how unlucky people are on this specific thread on this specific forum. What are the odds of two people who express anti vaccine views knowing lots of people who have died from Covid vaccines? Given how safe and effective the vaccines have been proved to be? Millions to one, I say.

So. Incredibly. Unlucky.

Incredibly lucky I would say as unless I missed something their social circles are completely free of people who died of COVID.
But crazy statistical oddities do happen, my wife's family has an astronomically high incidence of an auto immune disease. My wife even had a unique side effect to one of the drugs that has been in use for decades to treat this auto-immune disease.

 

[dcll]

..

 

[ManaByte]

California’s coronavirus cases are dropping, CDC says

California’s coronavirus transmission rates are dropping, a hopeful sign amid a summer surge fueled by the Delta variant, according to new data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevent…

ktla.com

 

[dcll]

disgusting

 

[Rentahamster]

California’s coronavirus cases are dropping, CDC says

California’s coronavirus transmission rates are dropping, a hopeful sign amid a summer surge fueled by the Delta variant, according to new data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevent…

ktla.com

Cases and hospitalizations seems to be leveling off on a nationwide scale as a whole, which is good. The usual hotspots are still going nuts though. At least Florida isn't as bad as it used to be and is on a downward trend.

 

[ManaByte]

Cases and hospitalizations seems to be leveling off on a nationwide scale as a whole, which is good. The usual hotspots are still going nuts though. At least Florida isn't as bad as it used to be and is on a downward trend.

Quick, start the Mu variant panic!

 

[Rentahamster]

Quick, start the Mu variant panic!

They can try, but there's not enough info to be worried yet. Delta outcompetes Mu by a lot so far.

 

[ManaByte]

They can try, but there's not enough info to be worried yet. Delta outcompetes Mu by a lot so far.

But but the media needs its panic porn ad revenue!

 

[Nobody_Important]

They can try, but there's not enough info to be worried yet. Delta outcompetes Mu by a lot so far.

Knock on every single piece of wood within 10ft of you please.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[BadBurger]

Looks like we have a new contender for the galaxy brains' prophylactic of choice for the next few weeks:




Next we'll find they're literally blowing smoke up each other's asses because someone on Facebook started saying that's how nobles avoided the plague in medieval Europe: by having their serfs blow smoke into their ass with horns.

 

[Thaedolus]

 

[FunkMiller]

“They live alone…
Their minds are blank…”

 

[DragoonKain]

With studies coming out that show natural antibodies from those who caught COVID may even be better than vaccine antibodies, is there a reason why those who caught COVID and recovered aren't allowed in places with vaccine mandates?

Is it the simple fact that someone can't prove they got COVID and recovered as easily? I think that could be done though.

If someone could prove that, I think they should be treated the same as those who've been vaccinated. And expand "vaccination proof" to those who've gotten COVID already, if doable.

With the newest data, someone who had it and recovered should not be treated as less than. These are the small things that create pockets of conspiracy theorists. They'll see this and think politicians are in bed with Big Pharma when even people with natural immunity MUST get the vaccine.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[funkygunther]

With studies coming out that show natural antibodies from those who caught COVID may even be better than vaccine antibodies, is there a reason why those who caught COVID and recovered aren't allowed in places with vaccine mandates?

Is it the simple fact that someone can't prove they got COVID and recovered as easily? I think that could be done though.

If someone could prove that, I think they should be treated the same as those who've been vaccinated. And expand "vaccination proof" to those who've gotten COVID already, if doable.

With the newest data, someone who had it and recovered should not be treated as less than. These are the small things that create pockets of conspiracy theorists. They'll see this and think politicians are in bed with Big Pharma when even people with natural immunity MUST get the vaccine.

there’s nothing stopping someone who has had COVID already from getting the vaccine

 

[DragoonKain]

there’s nothing stopping someone who has had COVID already from getting the vaccine

Well, that's besides the point. Maybe they know they already have natural antibodies and feel there's no need to risk a bad reaction to the vaccine no matter how rare.

And I think those people should be treated just the same as those vaccinated. If we're following the science, they should be.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Well, that's besides the point. Maybe they know they already have natural antibodies and feel there's no need to risk a bad reaction to the vaccine no matter how rare.

And I think those people should be treated just the same as those vaccinated. If we're following the science, they should be.

If there is a method to confirm the antibodies are active & it’s demonstratable to the correct parties, then I think it would be fine. However, no such system exists readily as far as I know.

 

[segasonic]

 

[Thaedolus]

If there is a method to confirm the antibodies are active & it’s demonstratable to the correct parties, then I think it would be fine. However, no such system exists readily as far as I know.

The Red Cross confirmed I had antibodies when I donated blood after I had COVID but before I got the vaccine, I think it could be easily done

 

[ManaByte]

 

[poppabk]

With studies coming out that show natural antibodies from those who caught COVID may even be better than vaccine antibodies, is there a reason why those who caught COVID and recovered aren't allowed in places with vaccine mandates?

Is it the simple fact that someone can't prove they got COVID and recovered as easily? I think that could be done though.

If someone could prove that, I think they should be treated the same as those who've been vaccinated. And expand "vaccination proof" to those who've gotten COVID already, if doable.

With the newest data, someone who had it and recovered should not be treated as less than. These are the small things that create pockets of conspiracy theorists. They'll see this and think politicians are in bed with Big Pharma when even people with natural immunity MUST get the vaccine.

There is no scientific reason why this shouldn't be the case. But from a policy standpoint telling people that if they get COVID then they don't need the vaccine is very bad. There are way too many idiots out there.

 

[Rentahamster]

How are we supposed to prove anecdotal evidence, especially to people with blind faith that scientists haven't screwed this up?

Literally the only thing I could have done is to steal his phone and upload his messages for you to see, and you guys both know that and how unreasonable that would be.
You guys don't want to be wrong, you'll go against anything that might suggest you've made a foolish choice.

You lot prance around as being humane while being the opposite.

We don't have "blind faith", that would be stupid. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm using the OPPOSITE of blind faith to come to my conclusions. A preponderance of evidence that leads to a reasonably justified belief which is of course subject to change if new information comes to light.

You, on the other hand, are believing everything you are told, without a hint of skepticism. Your friend may be absolutely right, but the deck is stacked against him in terms of evidence and credibility.

These messages he sent you - do they show pictures of his sick family? Have you seen his family IRL before? Do you know that they are actually real people? If there are pictures, do you know when they were taken? Do you have a doctor's prognosis that says the primary cause of their sickness and death is the vaccine?

You even admitted yourself that your friend is a conspiracy theorist. What is more likely, that a conspiracy theorist made up or embellished stories in an attempt to prove his point and spread his bullshit to a gullible friend, or that he beat the odds and had a one in a million chance of his entire family dying as a direct effect of the vaccine?

 

[Rentahamster]

With studies coming out that show natural antibodies from those who caught COVID may even be better than vaccine antibodies, is there a reason why those who caught COVID and recovered aren't allowed in places with vaccine mandates?

Is it the simple fact that someone can't prove they got COVID and recovered as easily? I think that could be done though.

If someone could prove that, I think they should be treated the same as those who've been vaccinated. And expand "vaccination proof" to those who've gotten COVID already, if doable.

With the newest data, someone who had it and recovered should not be treated as less than. These are the small things that create pockets of conspiracy theorists. They'll see this and think politicians are in bed with Big Pharma when even people with natural immunity MUST get the vaccine.

Claiming "I had COVID so I'm immune" relies too much on the honor system, and the pandemic is much too serious to leave such things to the honor system, especially when we already know how many people out there will lie about it.

Yes, a prior COVID infection provides immunity, and yes in a perfect world where people don't lie, that is just as good as the vaccine, but we don't live in that world.

Even assuming people don't lie, there's also the issue of verification and confidence. You can test for antibodies, but there is still a chance of error, and the time since infection is also unclear. I'm also pretty sure that the cost of an antibody test is more expensive than a COVID shot, although that shouldn't really matter if users are footing the bill themselves. With the vaccine, you know exactly the day it was administered, and you have a solid record of it. It's a much less administratively difficult process.

edit: Not to mention that there will also inevitably be a portion of the population who will intentionally infect themselves with COVID so that they can get a pass, because they mistakenly believe that the real infection is safer than the vaccine.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Well, that's besides the point. Maybe they know they already have natural antibodies and feel there's no need to risk a bad reaction to the vaccine no matter how rare.

And I think those people should be treated just the same as those vaccinated. If we're following the science, they should be.

So you want people to get periodic antibody testing if they had covid, and when they run under a certain threshold get the vaccine if it’s during this pandemic?

 

[Nobody_Important]

I just........

 

[poppabk]

I just........

I wish I had the twitter clout to force members of foreign government to publicly discuss whether they have knowledge of someone with giant testicles.