Can't decide
Member
Thanks for your condolences again.
If I posted 100 videos of vaccine reactions, you might start to think a little?
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Thanks for your condolences again.
If I posted 100 videos of vaccine reactions, you might start to think a little?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
100 videos of vaccine reactions are hearsay. Without independent investigation, there's no way to confirm if those videos are real. There's no way to know if the reaction had anything to do with the vaccine at all. When a billion people do anything in common, there's going to be a small number of people who have something bad happen to them, because that's what happens to a group of a billion people every day.
That is a lot different than a well documented study that has strict rules in place to weed out errors and bias and has a sample size of thousands, not just 100.
It's math.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Most people would have to go and talk to about a million people to even stand a chance of encountering 2 that had a family member who might have died due to the vaccine.Colleague and good friend of mine was shitting himself today, he recently took the vaccine and has began to feel the same symptoms as his other family members after they received the vaccine.
Unfortunately it's already killed his perfectly healthy sister, while his perfectly healthy mother and aunt are currently on life support and rapidly getting worse. Their blood and immune system have been totally fucked over, they've tried blood transfusions and trying to do something about platelets though all to no avail. He is travelling back to Portugal tonight in the hopes that he gets to see them before the worst happens.
This isn't even the first time a colleague has told me about healthy family members dying shortly after taking the vaccine and were only 18 staff, but of course a bunch of you self-righteous assholes, particularly ones likeJaysen keep giving a one trick pony with a broken record a run for it's money, by calling all the skeptics "morons" and "dumb shits" page after page, after page, after page, after page yet without any actual or intellectual input or counter arguments.
It makes me wonder if some of you actual venture out in to the real world and have conversations with real people, or if you just solely sit in front of screen and absorb "The news".
Though I myself am not vaccinated, and am against mandates, I will say that none of my friends/family who have gotten the vaccine have reported any issues apart from one girl who apparently had a resurfacing of latent shingles and was in very bad shape for a couple of weeks.
Can't decide
Member
You've entirely missed my point, the point was that no matter how much you see, you will still choose to believe what you want.
While you go and make numbers up, thankfully I am in a position where I get to converse with more than a thousands people every single day, since the very beginning of this pandemic.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
What are we supposed to start thinking about? The data is all there for review - the vaccines are astoundingly safe. It's very unfortunate for your friend but most of us are unlikely to have had a family member die of COVID nevermind from the astronomically lower vaccine side effects.
My MIL was extremely ill and coughing up blood the other night and was sent home from the ER at 3am because they had no beds available for her to be admitted, but I'm not gonna extrapolate that to the hospitals being overrun with unvaccinated COVID patients when we have actual data to look at.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I believe what is reasonable based on the most reliable evidence. I've seen a lot of evidence that shows the vaccine is safe and that the risks associated with taking the vaccine are a lot lower than the risks associated with COVID19.
That is more credible than personal anecdotes. This type of reasoning is how monkeys learned to land a spaceship on the moon, and it works for COVID too.
Can't decide
Member
The data has many steps along the way where somebody can manipulate it, or miss something out, or say it was something else. What can't be manipulated is what you see with your own eyes in your own environment, that which is happening in the real time, right in front of you.
His sister's death as far as he said hasn't been listed as vaccine related, despite her dropping almost immediately after injection and symptoms being exactly that of others that have been listed as dying due to vaccine.
He was never the conspiracy theorist type but seeing half his family immediately dying has also immediately turned him into one, and I don't blame him after what he's going through, he's now fully convinced that the vaccine is here to reduce the population.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Sure, it's possible, but that's why there are a lot of safeguards in place to prevent that. The same process that ensure Pfizer's dick pills make my penis hard and probably don't kill me is the same process that ensures Pfizer's vaccine protects me from COVID19 and probably doesn't kill me too. It's tested and reliable.
Like those 100s of videos? Video editing software exists. Makeup exists. Incorrect dating exists. Lying on video exists. Making a mistake on video exists. There is nothing inherently self correcting or reliable about a video that talks about anecdotal experiences. A video is great evidence that shows me who robbed a bank. It is less great at being evidence of a mechanism of a vaccine that happens internally and spans a long period of time.
If that's what happened to his family, that's a tragedy.
But you have to understand that I can't just take your word for it that the vaccines are dangerous based on the story of a friend that I don't even know myself. That's not how good science works.
Can't decide
Member
I thought it was clear that I was talking about my own personal experience dealing with more than a thousand people a day. Is that too small of a sample size?
As history has shown, what is thought of as "Good science" sometimes turns out to be "Bad science" sometime later.
Can't decide
Member
It's been quite ok for the others to throw out plenty of insults so far for Lord knows how many pages, so all's fair, no?
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RAÏSanÏa
Member
And this story of yours has one step and sounds completely fabricated.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
You did make that clear, and you also made it clear that I might have a change of heart if you showed me 100s of videos, at which point I showed you how those videos are flawed relative to better evidence, and why that is.
That doesn't invalidate my point at all.
Science and knowledge is always changing as we learn more about the world. Everything we know about the universe now is incomplete and potentially wrong compared to what we'll know in 100 years from further study. What you refer to as "bad science" is corrected and reevaluated by more science, as that's the only thing that has the potential to make "bad" science better.
Can't decide
Member
This is exactly my point, a lot of you only want to hear what you want to hear. I am a real person sitting here telling you about real experiences that I'm living through, have posted stuff about hygiene and masks in the past since I get to see much more in regards to people's behaviours and opinions, well being et al, than the vast majority of people, but you all want to pretend none of it real.
Somebody tell me why I would want to sit here wasting that time and effort making up fake stories?
Edit: Look, I'm not here for "conspiracies" or whatever you may think, I just think more testing time is needed to be given before you use something new. We don't know what the effects are after 3-5 years because we're still in the first year of use, for what looks good now might go horribly wrong. How do you know that it's not going to turn your immune system against itself like it has done to my friend/colleague's family, but just later down the line?
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Jaysen
Banned
What a load of shitColleague and good friend of mine was shitting himself today, he recently took the vaccine and has began to feel the same symptoms as his other family members after they received the vaccine.
Unfortunately it's already killed his perfectly healthy sister, while his perfectly healthy mother and aunt are currently on life support and rapidly getting worse. Their blood and immune system have been totally fucked over, they've tried blood transfusions and trying to do something about platelets though all to no avail. He is travelling back to Portugal tonight in the hopes that he gets to see them before the worst happens.
This isn't even the first time a colleague has told me about healthy family members dying shortly after taking the vaccine and were only 18 staff, but of course a bunch of you self-righteous assholes, particularly ones like
It makes me wonder if some of you actual venture out in to the real world and have conversations with real people, or if you just solely sit in front of screen and absorb "The news".
funkygunther
Banned
I assume it's to provide some balance to those you find "self-righteous" but you have given no indication what you want to happen from your shared anecdote. Similarly, you are also claiming to be an authority above people in here, but for what reason? From your current exchange you are an expert on your experiences and the words you choose but that's it far as I can see.
I don't know what you expect us to take away from your mates' deaths. Do you want us to probe into the causes of these deaths from your colleagues, what the doctors recorded? Using these deaths to learn about the side effects of the vaccine is about the only interesting thing I can think of to come out of your anecdote. So do you want to provide more info about these causes of deaths for us to discuss?
Can't decide
Member
People are self-righteous when they call others a moron for playing it cautious. I think it's a bad idea for people to be screeching at others to take a vaccine when we haven't given it proper time, it could end up being a terrible decision.
funkygunther
Banned
You concentrate on that but I want to probe more into your anecdote since that's what you brought to market. Will you address my questions there rather than similarly "screeching" back?
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Youre blunter than I am but honestly you really are right. Lightning struck this one family 3x in a row. Sure. Makes total sense.
Can't decide
Member
Hopefully I can give you more details on his return, but understand it's an unsympathetic dick move to just start probing someone while they are upset reading messages from their father, and also difficult to understand each word he was trying to speak.
As far as he said, his sister was 45 and in fit shape and had no health problems. She collapsed very shortly after receiving the vaccine but I don't know if it was the 1st or 2nd dose. From here on she remained weak and got worse. Apparently it caused her blood to became far too thin and have leakages or something to that affect, while her immune system had also turned in on itself. They tried giving her more blood and platelets, or tried to help the platelets in her system, but it failed.
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Can't decide
Member
Exactly my point again about believing only what you want to believe. Should I tried to have videoed him while he was trying not to cry while telling me about it and half showing me his phone with an essay of a message, would that have been more convincing?
Perhaps the vaccine doesn't work so well for some people, but without the proper testing time, you might end up harming or killing a lot of people finding out.
Think what you want though, while I watched a man have his soul ripped out from him today.
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funkygunther
Banned
You are the one that decided to share this with us but an inability to substantiate it only serves to spread FUD. We have no idea if the vaccine was the cause of the illness, but what about the other deaths from your abecdotes? You said there were deaths so they would be recorded.
What even does "have leakages" mean? It sounds scary, that's for sure, but unfortunately despite your apparent authority you haven't taken the necessary steps to ensure your story stands up to the most basic scrutiny.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I dont want to argue with you. But you're presenting an extraordinary claim. An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence.
I know tons of vaccinated people that are just fine. I work with two unvaccinated that got crushed so far by COVID. I just need more to go on than that. My real life experience and my trust in the entire world unanimously echoing the same sentiments is more persuasive than your admittedly sad story. It's just about evidence at the end of the day. Nothing personal.
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Can't decide
Member
My entire concern with the vaccine and people who have taken it is time, we aren't giving it that, we have jumped straight in. Many people are fine right now but it might wreak havoc over winter or in a few years for all we know, what if they fucked something up? Too late for many, they already have it in their system.
It is an extraordinary circumstance if you're sure about something, like the vaccine being safe, but it's not extraordinary to me as there isn't enough testing time. If it has affected a family with each member affected in the same way in the same time span, then that immediately raises concerns to me that the vaccine doesn't play well with particular groups, and what if it has the same affect on others later down the line.
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funkygunther
Banned
More like it raises concerns the vaccine doesn't play well with a very particular group. But you have no evidence it's the vaccine even for them, you're just extrapolating that using your imagination but I'm still not clear on the reason you're doing that.
At best you sharing these anecdotes was premature without you having done the most simple analysis. That's the most charitable reading of your situation. At worst it's antivax FUD nonsense dressed up as a sympathetic story you want us to rally around. I'm not surprised people are falling anywhere on that spectrum based on this discussion so far.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Thrombocytopenia. My perfectly healthy 16 year old brother developed it one day out of the blue (about 30 years ago now). Had to have his spleen removed, but survived. Hadn't had a vaccine at remotely the same time. Sometimes shit just happens, that's why you look at collated data rather than single data points.
Can't decide
Member
I don't know why anyone would dismiss the vaccine being the cause when 3 perfectly healthy people suddenly drop to the floor and require emergency care, one dies and two currently fighting for their life, shortly after taking the vaccine? If it isn't the vaccine then what else do you think it would be?
I have no idea why some of you guys seem so against questioning whether we are doing this properly?
funkygunther
Banned
You are not doing any questioning. In fact I've asked more questions about this family in the past hour than apparently you have with all your interactions with them. There are professionals who we can trust to prove causation. So you need to substantiate your claims better, even anecdotes. And just like Nicki Minaj's cousin's friend's massive balls I'm still left here, with you, asking so what?
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RAÏSanÏa
Member
Due to Alberta reaching testing capacity as delta still surges, their percentage return of positive tests, hospitalizations and icu increases and the increases in the latter two are beginning to decouple from case counts.
today
cases - hosp - icu - deaths
BC: 677 - 288 - 140 - 1
AB: 1434 - 822 - 212 - 9
Just a little under 3 weeks ago the provinces were about even on all counts. One enacted restrictions right away, the other didn't. It's turning into an Aesop fable.
today
cases - hosp - icu - deaths
BC: 677 - 288 - 140 - 1
AB: 1434 - 822 - 212 - 9
Just a little under 3 weeks ago the provinces were about even on all counts. One enacted restrictions right away, the other didn't. It's turning into an Aesop fable.
Malakhov
Banned
Nevermind, it's not worth it. The brother of a friend died a week after getting his second shot, my ex father in law was hospitalized after getting his second shot for heart problems, my girlfriend's aunt is now hospitalized after her second shot
But it's all anecdotal and b.s
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funkygunther
Banned
Causal links Identified?
Malakhov
Banned
See?
3 people I personally know, not friends of friends of friends etc.. had heart problems, all in the same time window as their 2nd shot, but it's easily dismissed.
But yet they will eat whatever they're being fed that fits their thinking. From people that are also dealing with a new vaccine, and are basing themselves on a quite small time window to make certain assessments.
It's hilarious, really, I've told you, it is simply not worth it.
funkygunther
Banned
You're right it's not worth it, so why bother when you can't answer the most basic questions or engage in any discussion around your stories.
Anecdotal? Yeah. BS? TBC, apparently until your anecdotes actually mean anything. Nicki Minaj's cousin's friend's inflamed testes.
Malakhov
Banned
I haven't engaged in anything other than talking directly to can't decide, you're the one who jumped in the conversation guns blazing already dismissing it.
Fine by me if it's anecdotes to you, I really don't care and like I said, it's not worth it.
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funkygunther
Banned
Actually you're the one that jumped into our conversation "guns blazing" but as this is public and you've provided anecdotes, I ask for some evidence. And you can't.
Malakhov
Banned
I quoted a user and addressed him personally, please don't play that petty game, it's really pathetic.
funkygunther
Banned
And I quoted you. Yes, this is pathetic. Want to discuss your anecdotes? Let's do it. Want to play this meta distraction? That's your choice, I might humour you.
Malakhov
Banned
Oh, you already are, don't worry.
Can you repeat anecdotes one more time please, I think you haven't said it enough
funkygunther
Banned
You seem like the last word type and obviously dont want to talk about your anecdotes so I ask what are you even doing here?
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Jaysen
Banned
And here you spelled out exactly why you lied about vaccine deaths. You can’t handle people pointing out the stupidity of being anti-vax.
Malakhov
Banned
I was talking personally to can't decide up until you jumped in.
Thought I already made that clear.
I'm the one who seems like the last word type of guy? Ok, I had the impression you were, guess I was wrong
funkygunther
Banned
I suggest a private message next time then if the publicness of this discussion board is too much for you
Malakhov
Banned
I suggest you really should stop jumping on people when they've stated quite clearly what their intent is, even if it's bothering you that they don't want to participate in a conversation with you
funkygunther
Banned
If asking you to discuss your anecdotes is jumping on you then no, I don't think I will. Happy jumper here.