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Classic games will reportedly be ‘a major part’ of PlayStation’s Game Pass rival

kingfey

Banned
Gamepass is not in baby form, it’s over 4 years old, only 2 years ago people figure out it existed because of shady marketing and console wars…
2 years ago, xbox was considered dead, and wrote of this gen. It only become big, once they got bethesda, e3 game announcement and now activision. Jan 18 2021, the sub had 18m in almost 3.5 years. That is a baby form, especially with pc+xbox.

About those e3 games… I know Xbox fans been starving for new IPs and exclusives but for the rest of us, for over 10 years MS done nothing to capture us gamers into their systems… so we will see.
Their main issues was the lack of developers. They had around 5 developers when Don Mattrick left them. Its why the entire generation was kinda dead, with no noticeable new IP, aside of sea of thieves. From 2018 until now, their studios count is 31+ after ACTivision deal is completed.
We might get new IPs in this gen, with those studios working under xbox.

There’s a reason why people go with Nintendo and Sony! Both aren’t perfect but they are consistently making exclusives.
Nope, both have history ahead of xbox, and more developers, with consistant 3rd party partnership. Xbox didnt have those. It relied on exclusive 3rd party games, gave 3rd party developers like bethesda, and cdpr a platform to start their journey on consoles. But exclusive wise, They didnt focus on expanding their developers which hurt them during xbox one.

If the xbox one fiasco didnt happen, Xbox would have been in better position rightnow, considering they had major exclusive with activision, bethesda and cdpr. MS could have bought those 3 during that era.
 

SteadyEvo

Member
Gamepass is already a threat, when its a baby form. Imagine, what it could do when, all those e3 games come to the service.

Sony has to come up a counter with that.

While they can make solid games. Their release is spacious. It takes time for the big hits to come out.

While gamepass on other hand, releases AAA a month day1/or 3rd party AAA game for $10/$15.
I see this as quality (Sony) vs quantity (MS)
 

Zeroing

Banned
2 years ago, xbox was considered dead, and wrote of this gen. It only become big, once they got bethesda, e3 game announcement and now activision. Jan 18 2021, the sub had 18m in almost 3.5 years. That is a baby form, especially with pc+xbox.


Their main issues was the lack of developers. They had around 5 developers when Don Mattrick left them. Its why the entire generation was kinda dead, with no noticeable new IP, aside of sea of thieves. From 2018 until now, their studios count is 31+ after ACTivision deal is completed.
We might get new IPs in this gen, with those studios working under xbox.


Nope, both have history ahead of xbox, and more developers, with consistant 3rd party partnership. Xbox didnt have those. It relied on exclusive 3rd party games, gave 3rd party developers like bethesda, and cdpr a platform to start their journey on consoles. But exclusive wise, They didnt focus on expanding their developers which hurt them during xbox one.

If the xbox one fiasco didnt happen, Xbox would have been in better position rightnow, considering they had major exclusive with activision, bethesda and cdpr. MS could have bought those 3 during that era.
I’ll keep this simple! Xbox brand awareness has been dead for over than 10 years here in Europe, but if you mean it became big by buying studios thus having headlines sure, it’s gotten “big” otherwise unless they consistently makes good games things aren’t going to change…

Another point is Phill closed a lot of studios and many projects failed why he was in charge, it’s about time people stop blaming the other guy… who is not longer there.

For me, And I think I’m not alone, MS always promised and never delivered so I’m not jumping at “what can be” I’ll be jumping when results are shown.
 

kingfey

Banned
I’ll keep this simple! Xbox brand awareness has been dead for over than 10 years here in Europe, but if you mean it became big by buying studios thus having headlines sure, it’s gotten “big” otherwise unless they consistently makes good games things aren’t going to change…
Xbox never had that big place in Europe. It only had 2 gen, before they screw up their 3rd gen. Unlike Nintendo, which tons of generation ahead of xbox, and Playsation with ps2 dominating Europe, while OG xbox was in the 1st stage. Its unfair comparison between those systems.
As for games, they have 2 big games right now. Elderscrolls, and Call of duty. Tons of IPs from bethesda and activision/blizzard. Add that to their games, and people will be interested on their platform for this gen.
For good games, it depends on the taste. Not everyone has the same taste. A multiplayer person, wont pick Ps5 over XSX/S, because XSX/S has alot of MP games. Same for SP person, who wont pick XSX/S over PS5, because PS5 has solid SP games.

Another point is Phill closed a lot of studios and many projects failed why he was in charge, it’s about time people stop blaming the other guy… who is not longer there.
Phil only closed 2 studio. I dont get where you got those other studios. It was lionhead studios with fable, and pressplay.

While you are here blaming phil, maybe you need to ask Don, why he didnt invest on xbox? The guy left with small studios, while Phil took them to 31+ studios. Not to mention, the guy created new studio dedicated for perfect dark.

For me, And I think I’m not alone, MS always promised and never delivered so I’m not jumping at “what can be” I’ll be jumping when results are shown.
They delivered their promises. You have road map for upcoming games. You have new studios ready to make games for xbox right now. Gamepass is kicking and delivering games to the console. You have a high standard for MS right now, which is why you arent seeing the results.

As wiseman once said, Games dont drop from the sky. It takes time and risks. If you dont see it that way, Then you wont see anything from xbox at all.

One more thing, we are in 2022, February 26. That is 8 months until Starfield releases. That is how fast time goes. Enjoy gamepass, and you will see those games. Sony didnt have any big game, since ratchet and clank.
 

kingfey

Banned
I mean… I understand they’re running a business and will do what’s best for them.
That is one thing we can agree on. Sony/MS/Nintendo arent our friends. They will do what makes them money.

You hate the word quality???
Define quality.

Well, you’ll be right at home 🏡 with Xbox Gamepass 😆
If you consider hitman 3, mass effect legendary edition, it takes 2, RD2, Gtav, and all the past gamepass games not quality, then i am seriously questioning what you consider a quality game.

At the end of the day, I define games by experience. Not what other people talk about it. You wont have the same experience as me. So your quality games, means nothing to me.
 

SteadyEvo

Member
That is one thing we can agree on. Sony/MS/Nintendo arent our friends. They will do what makes them money.


Define quality.


If you consider hitman 3, mass effect legendary edition, it takes 2, RD2, Gtav, and all the past gamepass games not quality, then i am seriously questioning what you consider a quality game.

At the end of the day, I define games by experience. Not what other people talk about it. You wont have the same experience as me. So your quality games, means nothing to me.
We will agree to disagree
 
People won't take you seriously or may even block/ban you if you insult people who doesn't agree with you instead of debating politely and constructively backing your opinion with factual data, as it could be objective market numbers.

That's a bold statement given your posting habits in this thread alone. I quoted you doing much of what you're accusing me of on the previous page, and got nothing but crickets from you. Rather ironic isn't it.

Most of the claims and statements you make are stated as fact, with absolutely zero factual data to support it. Those "objective market numbers" you're referring to are still numbers that must be accounted for. Just because you can't find an exact number... You're dismissing literally tens of millions worth of numbers and pretending they don't exist in order to repeat your narrative over and over. My main curiosity is simply to ask... Who do you think is buying your story? Do you honestly expect people to believe the things you so confidently claim? If so, why? And if not, then why put so much effort into purporting them?

That's no insult to you, so please don't take it as such. My intent is really just to understand why you say the things you do when it's obviously not the case.
 

yurinka

Member
That's a bold statement given your posting habits in this thread alone. I quoted you doing much of what you're accusing me of on the previous page, and got nothing but crickets from you. Rather ironic isn't it.

Most of the claims and statements you make are stated as fact, with absolutely zero factual data to support it. Those "objective market numbers" you're referring to are still numbers that must be accounted for. Just because you can't find an exact number... You're dismissing literally tens of millions worth of numbers and pretending they don't exist in order to repeat your narrative over and over. My main curiosity is simply to ask... Who do you think is buying your story? Do you honestly expect people to believe the things you so confidently claim? If so, why? And if not, then why put so much effort into purporting them?

That's no insult to you, so please don't take it as such. My intent is really just to understand why you say the things you do when it's obviously not the case.

I posted many objective market numbers. Here you have some more, that help to estimate if the growth of Gamepass did help to increase or decrease Xbox (in this case retail) sales:




These sales are for UK, the biggest EMEA country. The would be more interesting if sorted by release date in a graph, to compare them vs UK hardware market share around their release and to GP size around their release. But still useful if we compare launch games of this gen (like CoD BOCW, Valhalla or Yakuza Like a Dragon) to more recent games like Elder Ring, KoFXV or Dying Light 2. The distance seem to be growing, maybe because the growth of GP, maybe because of PS grew its market share (I don't know how it is as of now in terms of PS4+PS5 vs XO+XS in UK, I assume should be higher than 2:1), maybe both.

Meanwhile you keep attacking me without providing a single data to back your claims.
 
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ksdixon

Member
OLD games being the key phrase here. Nah, old games aren't worth shit. You can buy any of those "superior" older games for $10 or less. There is not going to be a lot of people interested in that. Game Pass is great because of brand new games.

Old games on a new system, and not having to stream-them-only, is as far as I care about any subscription services.
 

kingfey

Banned
No, they didn't. If they spend more time on Gamepass they will spend less time on purchased games. In the same way that using Gamepass they will spread their gameplay time between more games, meaning that they will spend less time with each game
You buy games, if you play alot of games. That is common sense. If you watch a super hero movie on the cinema, you are likely to buy the merchandise. That is what gamepass is.
By making people play alot of games, they will try to buy alot of games. Its common psychological behavior.
 

kingfey

Banned
I posted many objective market numbers. Here you have some more, that help to estimate if the growth of Gamepass did help to increase or decrease Xbox (in this case retail) sales:




These sales are for UK, the biggest EMEA country. The would be more interesting if sorted by release date in a graph, to compare them vs UK hardware market share around their release and to GP size around their release. But still useful if we compare launch games of this gen (like CoD BOCW, Valhalla or Yakuza Like a Dragon) to more recent games like Elder Ring, KoFXV or Dying Light 2. The distance seem to be growing, maybe because the growth of GP, maybe because of PS grew its market share (I don't know how it is as of now in terms of PS4+PS5 vs XO+XS in UK, I assume should be higher than 2:1), maybe both.

Meanwhile you keep attacking me without providing a single data to back your claims.
What you are arguing here is physical edition.
We are in digital age. Your data here is useless.
 

reksveks

Member
I posted many objective market numbers. Here you have some more, that help to estimate if the growth of Gamepass did help to increase or decrease Xbox (in this case retail) sales:




These sales are for UK, the biggest EMEA country. The would be more interesting if sorted by release date in a graph, to compare them vs UK hardware market share around their release and to GP size around their release. But still useful if we compare launch games of this gen (like CoD BOCW, Valhalla or Yakuza Like a Dragon) to more recent games like Elder Ring, KoFXV or Dying Light 2. The distance seem to be growing, maybe because the growth of GP, maybe because of PS grew its market share (I don't know how it is as of now in terms of PS4+PS5 vs XO+XS in UK, I assume should be higher than 2:1), maybe both.

Meanwhile you keep attacking me without providing a single data to back your claims.

Just for some interesting notes:


basically the default % split on purely next gen consoles in terms of retail sales if there was no user behaviour differences between the platform which I would argue is incorrect cause MS pushes digital sales more with its reward scheme, QR and PlayAnywhere is

PS5: 0.6912%
XBOX: 0.3088%
 
What you are arguing here is physical edition.
We are in digital age. Your data here is useless.
Except the biggest selling console right now has most of its sales with physical games.
Saying the physical market is useless when Switch sells most of its games in physical format and even last week Horizon Forbidden West had half of all its sales as physical is simply not true.

Just say Xbox isn't selling much games and most people are moving to gamepass. But that's a single platform. It's not irrelevant for the overall market.
 
Sony can’t fix what isn’t broken. PlayStation and Xbox aren’t the same.
This is what people don't understand in here.
These companies are only interested in making the most money possible...and the way they will achieve this isn't by doing the same thing the other one is doing.

Let's start by stating the obvious: MS wouldn't have Gamepass if their games were selling over 20M copies. They created something they knew their competitors wouldn't be able to do. Sony isn't doing that because they don't need it and because they can't right now. They MAY have their platform ready to switch for something similar in case the market goes that road...but for now they have no reasons for it.

Sony isn't doing these PSPlus changes because of Gamepass. It's because their PSPlus subscriptions have stalled. They want to bring more people to their ecosystem as they make the most money with subscriptions.

Imagine thinking Sony is giving up the money from pure sales. The fact their new games are still releasing at $70 / 80€ means their strategy has been working for them.

There's also something people aren´'t talking about. Horizon Forbidden West's sales may not have increased from the first game. (not sure yet) But if they remained stable, Sony still made a lot more money than with the first game release. In the end that's what they care about. It's not just about how many copies they sold day one. The fact their games release more expensive also means they will take much longer to reach those 20 dollars price.
 

yurinka

Member
What you are arguing here is physical edition.
We are in digital age. Your data here is useless.
Yes, we're in the digital age. Only with digital gaming revenue Sony had more revenues than the entire MS gaming division including their hardware and physical game sales.

PlayStation's digital gamig revenue (PS digital game sales+addons+services) made $17.32B in the last fiscal year, and this is not counting the additional Billion of their mobile game that they have under Sony Music.



And no, that data wasn't useless. It would be better to have the total worldwide digital+physical sales data of the games to compare their platform split, but it isn't available publicly. So that's the best data we have to compare platform split of multiplatform game sales, the retail sales for the biggest European country, and at least they are market factual data. Unlike a (your) personal opinion.

No public market data indicates that GP did help increase game sales on Xbox, the available one seems to indicate that if something it's the opposite.
 
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kingfey

Banned
Yes, we're in the digital age. Only with digital gaming revenue Sony had more revenues than the entire MS gaming division including their hardware and physical game sales.

PlayStation's digital gamig revenue (PS digital game sales+addons+services) made $17.32B in the last fiscal year, and this is not counting the additional Billion of their mobile game that they have under Sony Music.



And no, that data wasn't useless. It would be better to have the total worldwide digital+physical sales data of the games to compare their platform split, but it isn't available publicly. So that's the best data we have to compare platform split of multiplatform game sales, the retail sales for the biggest European country, and at least they are market factual data. Unlike a (your) personal opinion.
Its useless, because A) Sony has more hardware than MS. B)Certain games tends to go to Sony, due to the Japanese Market.

This is something you need to understand.

Its like me saying, COD sold alot on Xbox due to the NPD data. When in reality, Xbox is the dominant console in the npd market.

Developers have the sale data. To them, certain regions will prefer 1 console, while the other region will prefer the other console. But overall, the sales will depend on the platform that sells tons of hardware, which Sony did.

That is where your data is bad at.
 
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The past is the past. Classic PlayStation games were great, but I have no interest in playing them these days. Have fun with tank controls in the original Resident Evil or the vertex shifting graphics of PS1 games.
 

kingfey

Banned
Except the biggest selling console right now has most of its sales with physical games.
Saying the physical market is useless when Switch sells most of its games in physical format and even last week Horizon Forbidden West had half of all its sales as physical is simply not true.

Just say Xbox isn't selling much games and most people are moving to gamepass. But that's a single platform. It's not irrelevant for the overall market.
Unless you have physical number of copies, the data is useless.
10k copies can have advantages for the ps5. But not 200k copies.

Xbox has the xss, which is digital, which makes the physical sales useless.

Steam is digital, which makes this stats useless.

Are you expecting us to believe, a console which sold almost 120m, gets outsold by a console, which sold 18m?

As for switch, it doesn't matter whether it's physical or digital, they are the same price. Plus switch disc is easy to carry, unlike Consoles. I can fit 10 switch disc copies on a single xbox/Playstation disc case. It doesn't affect my purchase, unlike other consoles.

There is a reason why these system physical games are in decline. Everyone is switching to digital on these systems.
 

yurinka

Member
Its useless, because A) Sony has more hardware than MS. B)Certain games tens to go to Sony, due to the Japanese Market.

This is something you need to understand.

Its like me saying, COD sold alot on Xbox due to the NPD data. When in reality, Xbox is the dominant console in the npd market.

Developers have the sale data. To them, certain regions will prefer 1 console, while the other region will prefer the other console. But overall, the sales will depend on the platform that sells tons of hardware, which Sony did.

That is where your data is bad at.
NPD data wouldn't help here because we don't know the platform split of each game so we can't compare the platform split of CoD Vanguard vs CoD BO CW. So we couldn't see if the platform split improved or declined for Xbox as GP increased.

Plus, we don't have US hardware sales numbers, we only know in which order they did sell each month. As I remember the most recent PS4 number was 30M for NA back in 2019, which is maybe around half of what XBO sold worldwide on its entire lifecycle, and next gen consoles are heavily supply constrained so both consoles selling more or less seem to be depending on the availability. So even if I'd agree that USA traditionally was a more pro-Xbox country than the rest of the world, I don't see what data could indicate XBO+Series sales having bigger LTD sales than PS4+PS5 to indicate that Xbox is the dominant console in NPD market.

Yes, the developers have their worldwide sales and revenue data. And when any big 3rd party shown their platform split always (or almost, I assume there may be exceptions) have been favoring PS vs Xbox. Not sure now if any of them shared regularly their revenue or sales platform split, but maybe we could check there if it increased or decreased on Xbox as GP increased.

But as I mentioned before, I agree that it should be normalized taking into consideration hardware market share split to be more accurate. But again, we can't compare it because MS doesn't share hardware sales. So this is out of the question, we can't use it to compare.
 
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kingfey

Banned
NPD data wouldn't help here because we don't know the platform split of each game so we can't compare the platform split of CoD Vanguard vs CoD BO CW. So we couldn't see if the platform split improved or declined for Xbox as GP increased.
Same thing for the UK. We don't know the number of copies sold, hence the split is useless. Not to mention, there is no digital sales.


Plus, we don't have US hardware sales numbers, we only know in which order they did sell each month. As I remember the most recent PS4 number was 30M for NA back in 2019, which is maybe around half of what XBO sold worldwide on its entire lifecycle, and next gen consoles are heavily supply constrained so both consoles selling more or less seem to be depending on the availability. So even if I'd agree that USA traditionally was a more pro-Xbox country than the rest of the world, I don't see what data could indicate XBO+Series sales having bigger LTD sales than PS4+PS5 to indicate that Xbox is the dominant console in NPD market.
Same thing is for UK. Just like how US is pro xbox, UK or EU is pro Playstation, because of the ps1-3.
Any data from those areas just indicates that Playstation is strong in that area, not that it's dominant. Most of those people grow up buying physical version.


Yes, the developers have their worldwide sales and revenue data. And when any big 3rd party shown their platform split always (or almost, I assume there may be exceptions) have been favoring PS vs Xbox. Not sure now if any of them shared regularly their revenue or sales platform split, but maybe we could check there if it increase
Majority of gamepass increase are those, who will not buy the game. I play halo, but I will never buy 1, since I am not a fan of the series.


But as I mentioned before, I agree that it should be normalized taking into consideration hardware market share split to be more accurate. But again, we can't compare it because MS doesn't share hardware sales. So this is out of the question, we can't use it to compare.
Like I stated before, hardware split will never be accurate. You are dealing with wide genre of games, across the globe.

Any Japanese title will have Playstation on the edge, because of the Asian market. Any western games will have Xbox on edge, because of the western market.

Then you have the hardware sales, which plays a big role. Ps4/Xbox one wasn't a contest. That was 2:1. So Playstation would always had an edge over xbox, in term of hardware numbers.


Which brings to my main point. These comparisons will be useless, because of these factors.
 

Gravemind

Member
That is some serious trash level value for $16 a month. No way that can be true. There has to be more to this "spartacus" thing than just reshuffling and repackaging what is already available. Game trials should be free with any level of the service. It's a trial ffs. Also, who the fuck is going to pay 10$ a month and not even get access to the full catalogue. That's ridiculous.
 
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reksveks

Member
Yes, the developers have their worldwide sales and revenue data. And when any big 3rd party shown their platform split always (or almost, I assume there may be exceptions) have been favoring PS vs Xbox. Not sure now if any of them shared regularly their revenue or sales platform split, but maybe we could check there if it increased or decreased on Xbox as GP increased.
There is only one company that does it and that's Ubisoft. Capcom is either boxed sales I think or just full game sales.

Since 2015


Since Q2 2017 aka March 2017 (GP was June 2017)



This includes MTX and DLC.
 
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6502

Member
Trials = fail.

If it was £5 fair enough, but at netflix costs I would expect a netflix of games. Will await a proper announcement before passing judgement, but with their catalogue doing this is Nintendo levels of wtf.
 
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MacReady13

Member
I sincerely hope that they allow us to download and "keep" (purchase) those ps1/2/3 games and not just allow us to fucking rent them like Nintendo does with their classic games. I'm going to be so disappointed if that is the case...
 
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