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Canada Approves Two Pipelines, Axes One, Calls it a Climate Victory

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Lime

Member
I thought we were supposed to be hopeful after Trudeau got elected :/

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says his oil sands decisions are compatible with Canada's pledges to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The Canadian government announced long-awaited decisions on three major oil sands pipelines in a single sweep on Tuesday: Kinder Morgan's Trans Mountain expansion and Enbridge's Line 3 were approved, while Enbridge's Northern Gateway was rejected.

The net result means an additional 960,000 barrels per day of the abundant but carbon-heavy oil could be transported out of landlocked Alberta to more lucrative global markets in the coming decade. That coincides with the same timeline under which Canada, along with most other developed countries, are supposed to peak and then reduce greenhouse gas emissions under their pledges to the Paris climate agreement.

According to Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, there's no conflict between future growth in the oil sands and tackling climate change. Speaking at a press conference in Ottawa, he paradoxically described the two pipeline approvals as a way to both boost Canada's production of oil sands and transition the country "off of a fossil fuel intensive economy."

"We are able to approve pipeline projects," Trudeau said, "because we have put in significant measures in place, including a price on carbon pollution and a world-class ocean protection plan; because we are phasing out coal plants; because we are demonstrating genuine climate leadership."

[...]

Environmental groups and members of Canada's indigenous First Nations, who have aggressively fought these projects for years, expressed disappointment and anger.

"I have to say that I am not totally surprised by the permit decision today but I am disappointed," Charlene Aleck, the spokeswoman for the Tsleil-Waututh Nation group opposing the Trans Mountain pipeline, said in a statement. "There is a terrible history of the mistreatment of First Nations people in Canada. It saddens me because we hoped things might be different with Trudeau but today's decision is a big step backwards."

[...]

"This is about our survival and the protection of our home, this inlet and the planet," said Aleck. "They are making a big mistake. We will not allow this pipeline to be built."

Pipeline opponents took issue with the Trudeau administration's climate accounting, which assumes that if the pipelines were denied the tar sands would simply find another route to market such as by rail.

"We looked into the math and unequivocally there is no way that these pipelines, which would facilitate extracting and exporting more than 1 million barrels per day of new tar sands production, fits within Canada's climate plan," Adam Scott, senior campaigner at the research and advocacy group Oil Change International, told InsideClimate News in an email.

Under the global climate treaty, Canada has vowed to cut its emissions 30 percent by 2030 compared to 2005 levels. At the latest round of climate talks in Morocco, Canada was among the nations to share its mid-century climate strategy, to cut emissions 80 percent by 2050 compared to 2005 levels.

[...]

Calculations by the Canadian government show the carbon dioxide (CO2) reductions from an upcoming carbon tax will be nearly wiped out by the additional emissions from the Trans Mountain pipeline.

Enbridge's Line 3 involves replacing and expanding an existing pipeline that runs 1,031 miles from Hardisty, Alberta to Superior, Wisc. The nearly $5.6 billion project would carry up to 760,000 barrels of oil a day.

Much more at the link including detail on the 3 different pipelines: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/...ate-oil-sands-northern-gateway-trans-mountain
 

Ac30

Member
I'm hoping that emissions savings from phasing out coal entirely and increasing renewables will offset this and more - but this is pretty shit.
 

DJ_Lae

Member
I think it's probably the most sensible decision for the moment, as long as it comes in conjunction with better development of sustainable forms of energy - particularly here in Alberta. Right now the NDP seems to have an interest in going that route but they're also hamstrung by the Conservatives completely failing to diversify Alberta's economy over the last decades.
 

phaze

Member
I don't understand this.

Are these pipelines themselves going to be emitting greenhouse gas ?

You're going to export it or if you need it themselves, you'll take from somewhere anyway so that seems like delusional barking at not even a tree.
 
IMO, I think he took a balanced approach and more realistic one.

Northern Gateway was the worst project of them all, I am glad that one got nixed.

But Kinder-Morgan is an existing pipeline that he is going get tripped along side it. That I am okay with because eh, the 1st pipeline is already there.

But eh, nobody is going to be happy. Mulcair and the NDP want none of it while Ambrose and the Conservatives are upset that Northern Gateway got canceled
 

pa22word

Member
Oil is too big a part of canada's economy to just write it off and sip macchiatos while feeling smug about saving the planet.

Subsidize the shit out of green energy all you want, but at the end of the day no canadian PM in their right mind would have done otherwise despite the lip service.
 

djkimothy

Member
The fallout of not securing all those jobs vs the fallout of approving the pipes would have been worse. At least the axe was giving to the northern gateway. I don't think anyone would have supported it since it would have to go through a protected rain forest (set to fail).

The oil is going to get to the coast anyways, better the pipes than through rail. It's not ideal but he'll have to find other ways for emissions savings. He already promised to phase out coal plants. Which is a start. But no one talks about that...
 
some of you lefty-lefts are too hardlined in your positions; you gotta be realistic and be nuanced.

Northern Gateway, yeah that one was shit and Thank God that one is nixed.

But Kinder-Morgan already exists, so increasing its output is not major or drastic.
 

Silexx

Member
Canada's economy is driven by commodities and natural resources. The demand for oil does not magically disappear if the pipelines aren't built and likely someone else will step up to provide it if Canada does not.

It would be incredibly stupid if the Canadian government decides to suddenly and needlessly kneecap itself economically in some futile symbolic gesture by rejecting the Kinder Morgan pipeline.
 

fantomena

Member
Srsly he just acts all cool and hip put pushes some nasty shit through

Really? The videos Ive seen of him, speeches, walking around after election day thanking people made me think he was super cool.

some of you lefty-lefts are too hardlined in your positions; you gotta be realistic and be nuanced.

Ive got no time to be nuanced and realistic when it comes to climate change. Im hard on politicians, but hard as fuck when it comes to politicians and climate change.
 

pa22word

Member
Ive got no time to be nuances and realistic when it comes to climate change.

if JT canned the oil economy in canada it would likely cause a decade long recession, if not worse. Due to the nature of democracy, if he tried to put up such a resolution his party would can him. If not, the people would can his and his party's asses at the next election leading to a rightist who would do less than JT is doing now which in turn would cause /more/ damage long term.

You have to fight the battles you can win dude, and this isn't one of them. Not right now, anyways.
 

kirblar

Member
Canada's economy is driven by commodities and natural resources. The demand for oil does not magically disappear if the pipelines aren't built and likely someone else will step up to provide it if Canada does not.

It would be incredibly stupid if the Canadian government decides to suddenly and needlessly kneecap itself economically in some futile symbolic gesture by rejecting the Kinder Morgan pipeline.
/|\

The idea that ALL PIPELINES BAD is the way to go policy wise is completely ridiculous, doubly so if you actually want to win elections.
 

Gitaroo

Member
Canada's economy is driven by commodities and natural resources. The demand for oil does not magically disappear if the pipelines aren't built and likely someone else will step up to provide it if Canada does not.

It would be incredibly stupid if the Canadian government decides to suddenly and needlessly kneecap itself economically in some futile symbolic gesture by rejecting the Kinder Morgan pipeline.

More incredibly stupid for the east coast to oppose energy east while they keep importing oil from foreign countries that give zero fucks about environmental damage nor climate change. Energy east should be been a no brainer, when the whole country should be using it own resources. I think the US under Trump will be self sustain in their own resources before Canada ever will.
 

Pedrito

Member
-Liberals have never said they were against pipelines. Everyone knew these two would get approved.
-Unless someone can come up with a plan for the hundreds of thousands of people in Alberta who's jobs are linked to oil extraction in one way or another, it's not going away anytime soon. "Create a green economy" is not a plan. It's just mumbo-jumbo.
-Trudeau/Liberals should stop talking about being feminists/environmentalist/humans rights defenders because every time they take a decision on something, it comes back to bite them in the ass, no matter how sensible and balanced that decision is. Show, don't tell.
 
Really? The videos Ive seen of him, speeches, walking around after election day thanking people made me think he was super cool.



Ive got no time to be nuanced and realistic when it comes to climate change. Im hard on politicians, but hard as fuck when it comes to politicians and climate change.

and what are you guys doing about your off-shore oil?

are you going to shut yours down?
 

bryehn

Member
Canada's economy is driven by commodities and natural resources. The demand for oil does not magically disappear if the pipelines aren't built and likely someone else will step up to provide it if Canada does not.

It would be incredibly stupid if the Canadian government decides to suddenly and needlessly kneecap itself economically in some futile symbolic gesture by rejecting the Kinder Morgan pipeline.

All this logic hurts my brain.
 
This guy is an idiot.

I wouldn't go that far but this is definitely a very pragmatic win-some-lose-some situation. Which I guess is standard when dealing with stuff like this where there's no one easy answer. Good for Alberta and the jobs and the overall economy but I feel for the First Nations people who might be affected by this.
 

djkimothy

Member
Perhaps a more neutral source for the news.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-cabinet-trudeau-pipeline-decisions-1.3872828

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his cabinet colleagues signed off on two major pipelines today, projects that will pump nearly a million more barrels of oil a day from Alberta's oilsands to global markets, if they are constructed.

Ottawa gave the green light to Kinder Morgan's Trans Mountain pipeline and Enbridge's Line 3, while it rejected Northern Gateway.

The prime minister said production from Alberta's oilsands is increasing, and current pipeline infrastructure will soon be at capacity.

"The decision we took today is the one that is in the best interests of Canada," Trudeau said in announcing his government's support for the two major projects. "It is a major win for Canadian workers, for Canadian families and the Canadian economy, now and into the future."

He said Canada is still a "climate leader," and pointed to Alberta's plan to cap greenhouse gas emissions from the oil patch at 100 megatonnes of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions a year.

Trudeau said that if these projects aren't built, diluted bitumen would be forced into more rail tanker cars for transport.

"That is less economic, and more dangerous for communities, and is higher in terms of greenhouse gas emissions than modern pipelines would be."

The government has been laying the groundwork for approving a major pipeline, courting green-conscious voters with plans to impose a national price on carbon, phase out coal-powered plants by 2030 and overhaul the National Energy Board, the country's regulator.

Today, Trudeau also announced that the government would ban crude oil tankers along B.C.'s North Coast, promising legislation in the new year to implement a moratorium.

More details at the link.

Like others said, this was the most balanced approach of what the other 3 parties would have propose. Also, revenues gained from the project will go towards alternative fuels.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rachel-notley-christy-clark-trans-mountain-1.3874352

Notley said:
"Quite frankly, as we make the transition to a more diversified economy, to one that's more based on renewable energy, we need to finance that transition. We can't turn it around on a dime. That's not a just transition. And so, I can make that case to people not only in Alberta, but in B.C."
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Pretty much my entire social circle voted for the Libs, but sometimes I feel like just half of us - myself included - were the ones who were aware that KM was always part of the deal.
 

SRG01

Member
Kinder Morgan is an existing pipeline, so expanding it isn't going to magically increase future emissions. That's pure supply-side economics.
 
NDP think that Trudeau is going too far.
Conservatives think that Trudeau is not going far enough.

there is no win with anybody, everyone is a whiner
 
These pipelines were gonna happen whether the Liberals or Conservatives were in charge. Don't act surprised.

Now hurry the fuck up and make weed legal.
 

djkimothy

Member
NDP think that Trudeau is going too far.
Conservatives think that Trudeau is not going far enough.

there is no win with anybody, everyone is a whiner

It's sad, but it's the policy that i prefer. Middle of the road compromise. Something that the populist uprising (from both the right AND the left) feel there's no room for.

Now hurry the fuck up and make weed legal.

I think an announcement is up for March? Last I heard they gave themselves 1 year to come up with policy guidelines.
 
Perhaps a more neutral source for the news.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-cabinet-trudeau-pipeline-decisions-1.3872828



More details at the link.

Like others said, this was the most balanced approach of what the other 3 parties would have propose. Also, revenues gained from the project will go towards alternative fuels.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rachel-notley-christy-clark-trans-mountain-1.3874352

You're saying insideclimatenews.org is biased?

I don't really like that they insist on increasing output of oilsand extracted oil beyond current pipeline capacity, but given that is a provincial decision that's already been made and it's not politically viable to limit output in Alberta, the decision made at the federal level makes sense. They rejected the cartoonishly evil pipeline and approved the twinning of an existing one.

Hopefully they do the right thing and stop Energy East in the end.
 

Xe4

Banned
Fighting pipelines is a loosing battle anyhow. Thst oil is going to leave the ground one way or another, so instead of rejecting (sensible) pipelines, there are other, more productive ways to fight AGW.

It's why I never understood the fight over Keystone. If not the US, that pipeline would go to the west coast of Canada and out towards China. Seems kind of silly to draw the line there.
 
You're saying insideclimatenews.org is biased?

I don't really like that they insist on increasing output of oilsand extracted oil beyond current pipeline capacity, but given that is a provincial decision that's already been made and it's not politically viable to limit output in Alberta, the decision made at the federal level makes sense. They rejected the cartoonishly evil pipeline and approved the twinning of an existing one.

Hopefully they do the right thing and stop Energy East in the end.

the rail explosion in Lac-Mégantic is a good argument in favour for Energy East.

Oil traveling east are going by tanker trucks or rail. And then you get explosive situations like Lac-Mégantic
 

Cheerilee

Member
NDP think that Trudeau is going too far.
Conservatives think that Trudeau is not going far enough.

there is no win with anybody, everyone is a whiner

The Alberta NDP only agreed to sign on with Trudeau's climate plans (stuff like carbon tax) on the condition that he approve some of these pipelines.

It's easy to save the planet when you're not the one who needs to starve to death to make it happen.
 

MutFox

Banned
Between Oil and Beef, Alberta just wants to destroy the earth.
Hey at least they'll have jobs and money, that's what matters.
 
The Alberta NDP only agreed to sign on with Trudeau's climate plans (stuff like carbon tax) on the condition that he approve some of these pipelines.

It's easy to save the planet when you're not the one who needs to starve to death to make it happen.
*ahem*, when I say NDP, I mean FEDERAL NDP
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Yeah, I walked into a MASSIVE protest downtown on my way to the Canucks game. I had no idea that the pipelines had been approved until I saw the signs/heard the chants.

This will seriously affect the Liberal chances in many BC ridings next election.
 

djkimothy

Member
Yeah, I walked into a MASSIVE protest downtown on my way to the Canucks game. I had no idea that the pipelines had been approved until I saw the signs/heard the chants.

This will seriously affect the Liberal chances in many BC ridings next election.

Well they have 3 years to patch it up and I'm sure legalizing the recreational marijuana industry in BC will make them forget this evvvver happened. ;)
 

Xe4

Banned
Between Oil and Beef, Alberta just wants to destroy the earth.
Hey at least they'll have jobs and money, that's what matters.
It's their economy right now. It'll take a bunch of effort from everyone to change that. Like it or not, tons of people make a living in oil, coal, natural gas, beef, and other harmful industries. You can't just say "suck it ip, the plants dying", cause nobody is going to give up their job for that. It's why what Trudeau is doing now is good; tax carbon, and Invest in renewable. Work on changing the economy of Alberta, cause is not going to change itself.
 

MutFox

Banned
Yeah, I walked into a MASSIVE protest downtown on my way to the Canucks game. I had no idea that the pipelines had been approved until I saw the signs/heard the chants.

This will seriously affect the Liberal chances in many BC ridings next election.

Problem is, if the left gets split again,
the Cons will win again... :|
 

MutFox

Banned
It's their economy right now. It'll take a bunch of effort from everyone to change that. Like it or not, tons of people make a living in oil, coal, natural gas, beef, and other harmful industries. You can't just say "suck it ip, the plants dying", cause nobody is going to give up their job for that. It's why what Trudeau is doing now is ood; tax carbon, and I nest in renewables. Work on changing the economy of Alberta, cause is not going to change itself.

Should have been changes decades ago.
Now we're on a slim timeline and Alberta is planting their feet.
 
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