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Can I be honest here...I don’t think the Xbox Series S is going to last very long into the generation.

Derktron

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Its a big liability. Basically what happened to nintendo wii is awaiting series s
Hmm with the Nintendo Wii that was a different time, devs knew what they were getting themselves into when porting a game on the Wii, the Wii at the time was a perfect time to experiment with games and see what stuck at the time. But with the Series S, I think that's different, I like the system, I have the system but I feel like it's not going to last long, I'm not claiming 1 year or 2 years but it can potentially happen. Ohh fuck maybe I'll be wrong in my assumptions, and the Series S does well into the generation and the console hasn't hit the potential only because devs still make games for last-gen too. So who knows what is in store. I'm just having a healthy conversation from a "What if" standpoint. Seems like some have an issue with that.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
May 11, 2013
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i guess you people are really not reading anything i comment, actually.


also, sampler feedback is not a miracle, it will reduce vram usage but only by certain amounts

Those "certain amounts" are actually pretty massive as proven by this,
 

MilkLizard

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if you would've read it you wouldn't say this

i dont say it looks like that in rdr 2. i say that when systems run out of vram, they have to resort to textures that look like that. once xbox sx/ps5 are fully utilized with their 13.5 gb allocated vram, series s's 8 gb allocated vram will be a huge trouble, and THEN some games will start to look like on the left. i'm not sayin they look like that now, that cant happen because every game out there caters to the 8 gb vram as of now. but that will change, rtx 3070/2080s/series s, all of them will play with GARBAGE textures in nextgen games.
Oh ok
 

abel empire

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Hmm with the Nintendo Wii that was a different time, devs knew what they were getting themselves into when porting a game on the Wii, the Wii at the time was a perfect time to experiment with games and see what stuck at the time. But with the Series S, I think that's different, I like the system, I have the system but I feel like it's not going to last long, I'm not claiming 1 year or 2 years but it can potentially happen. Ohh fuck maybe I'll be wrong in my assumptions, and the Series S does well into the generation and the console hasn't hit the potential only because devs still make games for last-gen too. So who knows what is in store. I'm just having a healthy conversation from a "What if" standpoint. Seems like some have an issue with that.
The thing is the wii was the series s at the time. At the start of the ps3 and 360 generation developers supported the wii but after a year or 2 they stopped making ports for it because of its weakness even though it was outselling 360 and ps3 they just didnt care. Devs focused their engines on 360 and ps3 and this is whats going to happen they might not just scrap the series s but theyll make bad ports so get ready for bad frame rates, games crashing, missing textures, 720p resolutions basically its pointless
 

Yselacrey00

Junior Member
Nov 20, 2018
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Okay before I begin let me start off with the usual assumptions that people will probably have

1. I already know it’s a $300 system that is only capable of doing so much.
2. The system already uses the same CPU as the Xbox Series X
3. The console will be fine. Why are you so worried
4. I’m sure I missed some things.

Okay I understand what everyone is going to say and I 100% agree, but as an owner who is lucky enough to even have a next-generation system like Series S, I'm grateful for that because of how hard it is to get a PS5 or Series S/X. But I feel like Xbox doesn't give it enough attention that it needs and it's not entirely Xbox who I feel like they don't give it enough attention, it's also the devs, they sometimes leave of the Series S and sometimes treat it like it's a second class device that doesn't matter, and that is where I understand that the console can do so much but I feel like they need to do more, for an instant, the big upgrade Xbox released for the 120hz (120 fps) upgrade.

That to me feels unfair because they should have also focused on people who still have a 60hz screen and done both, do the upgrade for 120hz, but also do fps boost for those who have a 60hz screen, just like they did for the first fps boost, where I can play a smooth 60fps when playing games like Skyrim or Fallout 76. Make games that are 30fps to 60fps then jump to 120fps for those who have the capable device and yeah you can argue that some games already hit 60fps but in reality sometimes it is not the case, it's achievable on PS5 and Series X but it sure doesn't feel that way on Series S, it might be 60fps but you can see the dips and hardly ever notice it.

Another is the resolution to performance on the Series S, some games are achievable to a full 4K but to me, that should not be the main focus on the Series S when it won't hit 60fps like on the PS5 and Series X. To me, they should focus more on 1080p, and 1440p to achieve 60fps, and if they can achieve a full 4K and somehow achieve 60fps then fuck it, good for them and I'll celebrate with a bottle of beer and dance around my Xbox Series S.

I don't maybe I'm overreacting and being dumb in my assumptions, but I feel like the Series S will not last very far into the generation where I feel like they might make a Series S 2.0 in the future. (I would love to be proved wrong and would be happy to be proved wrong on ALL my assumptions I just made)
Thoughts?
Seria S us an afterthought and a big mistake by microsoft. They tried to do what Nintendo does but they won't be able to compete in 5 years. Even Nintendo is looking to release a new Switch because the technology is so old.
 

ManaByte

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The thing is the wii was the series s at the time. At the start of the ps3 and 360 generation developers supported the wii but after a year or 2 they stopped making ports for it because of its weakness even though it was outselling 360 and ps3 they just didnt care. Devs focused their engines on 360 and ps3 and this is whats going to happen they might not just scrap the series s but theyll make bad ports so get ready for bad frame rates, games crashing, missing textures, 720p resolutions basically its pointless

That's a stupid comparison because the Wii had a weaker CPU than the 360 or PS3. The Series S has the same Zen CPU and RDNA2 tech both the X and PS5 have. It's just specced to max out at 1440p and not 4K.
 

phil_t98

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Oct 10, 2014
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games these days have one set of textures. that's the problem. if you really think they will specifically build special lower resolution tuned textures for series s, you're deeply mistaken

as i've said a million times, and as you've people misunderstood a million times, there's not a huge vram consumption difference between 1080p and 4k.



shadow of tomb raider

you either have "enough" vram, or you don't. that's about it.

and if you "lower" textures, they look like on that pic. and even then, as i've said a million times, and as you people are unable to comprehend for a millionth time, LOWERING TEXTURE QUALITY does not reduce VRAM requirement HUGELY. it simply DOES. NOT. because there isn't any OTHER texture sets. games these days use inefficient downscaling texture algorythms to reduce a copule HUNDREDS megabytes of memory.

GOING from ULTRA textures to LOWEST POSSIBLE in textures in MOST games will net a total of 500-700 mb of vram. THAT's not enough to accomodate for series s's vram against series x/ps5's.

i once played games with a 2 gb vram gpu. it simply sucked. even at lowest of low possible textures, games still stuttered while 4 gb vram cards run havoc on these games. just a simple 2 gb vram made all the difference on the world.

this is the situation with series s and x. it sohuldn't have had gimped vram. gimped power can be accomodated, since you people enjoy 648p quality al ot, but gimped vram will be tough to accomodate for

Games have one set of textures? Isn’t there a lot of games that download 4K textures? Also textures streamed in and out much quicker because of the SSD’s
 

dvdvideo

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I understand why it exists but for selfish reasons I wish it didn’t.

Considering they are still making almost every game for either xbox one, ps4, or low end pc spec, it has not affected anything for most games in terms of development - its not the lowest denominator.
 
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BigLee74

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Yeah, we get it. Certain PlayStation fans don’t like the XSS. And some of you guys REALLY drone on and on about it. Every single thread, with umpteen lengthy posts.

It’s got the same CPU as its big bro, the same fast SSD, and is scaled in other areas for lower res. It will sell loads during this gen, and will be here all gen. A lot of PlayStation owners will end up buying one as a second system once the exclusives start rolling off the belt straight into Gamepass.

Microsoft have been laying the foundations to really fight this gen, and potentially win next gen.
 

dcmk7

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Yeah, we get it. Certain PlayStation fans Developers don’t like the XSS. And some of you guys REALLY drone on and on about it. Every single thread, with umpteen lengthy posts.

It’s got the same CPU as its big bro, the same fast SSD, and is scaled in other areas for lower res. It will sell loads during this gen, and will be here all gen. A lot of PlayStation owners will end up buying one as a second system once the exclusives start rolling off the belt straight into Gamepass.

Microsoft have been laying the foundations to really fight this gen, and potentially win next gen.
FYP.
 

Derktron

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Seria S us an afterthought and a big mistake by microsoft. They tried to do what Nintendo does but they won't be able to compete in 5 years. Even Nintendo is looking to release a new Switch because the technology is so old.
Yep, like I said before the Series S is going to be a mistake for them in the coming years when devs finally switch over to the next-gen. The big test would be the new Battlefield game if the rumors are to be true that it's not coming to last-gen.
 

abel empire

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That's a stupid comparison because the Wii had a weaker CPU than the 360 or PS3. The Series S has the same Zen CPU and RDNA2 tech both the X and PS5 have. It's just specced to max out at 1440p and not 4K.
Its not the cpu thats the bigger problem its the ram. A game designed to run on 13.5gb of ram would be very hard to port to 7.5gb of ram. Memory budgets are what mattet more in game design
 
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Xbox series S is ok if you continue playing on a 1080p monitor in 2021 and later... In a 4K TV this console is already not good at all...

And the problem with this console is developers who dont want to support her correctly... Dude, 80% of the games on series s have FPS drops, the problem is not the console, is the developers...
 

rob305

Gold Member
Aug 1, 2013
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Is today national idiot day or something??

--- Imagine being an idiot and thinking this is a troll lol bro try hard, it's a concern to even think about. If you don't like ...... There's the door.


























Also, anyone here like yourself, thinks the Series S is going to last in performances then I'll remember your name. So I can call you out. Have a nice day. Onto my ignore list.
Toppest of the keks
How can you call me out if I'm on your ignore list? I dont think this is how it works
Also:

Seek therapy if a console by a random corporation gets you this riled up (psychologically challenged)
 
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Hoddi

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Its not the cpu thats the bigger problem its the ram. A game designed to run on 13.5gb of ram would be very hard to port to 7.5gb of ram. Memory budgets are what mattet more in game design
It's definitely a concern but we've yet to see how much of an effect the SSD will have. If SFS works as advertised then the difference in resolution might make up for the difference in memory capacity when coupled with an SSD. I think people underestimate how much data is preloaded in older games vs. how much is loaded on the fly.

We actually have a fairly decent example of this already in Doom Eternal on PC. The game doesn't have a texture *quality* setting as such but it allows you to set the size of the streaming pool which saves ~3.5GB of video memory on the lowest setting. The upshot of this is that it also roughly doubles the amount of reads from disk.
 

Dolomite

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Series S is doing numbers and not slowing down soon. $299 budget console for kids and boomers who don't care about 4K? Easy money
 
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If Nintendo made 3 generations with 3 hot trash hardwares like the Wii, the WiiU, and the Switch...

Don't worry AT ALL for the Series S then.
 

iHaunter

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It was an ENORMOUS mistake. They should've done what Sony did, digital for $100 less. Who the hell is going to pay for a Series S when a PS5 Digital is $100 more? You're talking about a 25% price increase for 215% more power. The gap is so enormous.
 
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The series S has the potential to become the next Wii, you know the Wii was the cheapest and it won the whole PS3/360/wii console generation.
 

mxbison

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Well you'll be able to play every game so in that sense it will last.

But it's possible that some games later in the gen run like shit like they did on the base xbo/ps4 though.
 
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abel empire

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It's definitely a concern but we've yet to see how much of an effect the SSD will have. If SFS works as advertised then the difference in resolution might make up for the difference in memory capacity when coupled with an SSD. I think people underestimate how much data is preloaded in older games vs. how much is loaded on the fly.

We actually have a fairly decent example of this already in Doom Eternal on PC. The game doesn't have a texture *quality* setting as such but it allows you to set the size of the streaming pool which saves ~3.5GB of video memory on the lowest setting. The upshot of this is that it also roughly doubles the amount of reads from disk.
I hate explaining this time and time again your being fooled by mocrosodts marketing sfs is just virtual texturing its happened in games since xbox 360 it wont save ram budgets.
 
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ZywyPL

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Long-term, the Series S is gonna be a 1080p30/720p60 console and that is fine for the people who are gonna have a 1080p TV in 2025 or so.

I think the sooner MS starts promoting the consoles as "FullHD next-gen console" the better for it, the more traction it gains - everyone now is trying way too hard for the console to push above that, with all those 1200-1440p or 720-900p 120Hz modes the console already does look bad and heavily underpowered when put next to XSX/PS5, especially in all of the 4K-oriented analysis out there, while in reality it saturates 1080p60 displays waaay better than its bigger brothers work on 4K TVs, where they're barely hitting their targeted resolution and/or framerate, and often take a lot of compromises while doing so.
 

RJMacready73

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Am I missing something here... Series X (humour me) = Big beefy PC with a 3090GTX, Series S = PC with a 2070... Both play the same fucking games only one is better looking.

Is this not what MS wants? Not everyone can afford a 3090 in their PC some can only afford a 2070 so they're catering for both ends of the market and like PCs, both can play every fecking game... So what's the problem?
 

HoodWinked

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To me it seems like PC gaming hardware has been getting stretched more than ever. So as long as these games are coming to PC they will have low end specs accommodations.
 

iceatcs

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Xbox series s to stay and will be big part on xblade server for xcloud service. I bet on that.
 
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Three

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It's much better to be gpu limited than cpu limited. The series S sharing the same cpu as the X and being gpu limited basically means they can lower resolution and graphics as much as they need to and get mostly whatever level of performance they want out of it. If you're cpu limited there's basically shit you can do about it. There will probably be a Series S revision just like there would be an X revision down the line.
This assumes that the engine has already been created and you are CPU limited. Engines are created to maximise use for all target platforms and the Series S memory and GPU sucks for the generation.
 

PropellerEar

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Am I missing something here... Series X (humour me) = Big beefy PC with a 3090GTX, Series S = PC with a 2070... Both play the same fucking games only one is better looking.

Is this not what MS wants? Not everyone can afford a 3090 in their PC some can only afford a 2070 so they're catering for both ends of the market and like PCs, both can play every fecking game... So what's the problem?
Series S is more like 1050 ti.
 

PropellerEar

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Yeah but like a PC equipped with a 3090 it'll still run the same games with the settings turned down so I don't see the issue
Console isn't meant to be a PC.
That big divide in GPU power means extra work, optimizations, testing, different textures... Etc.
XSeS is a perversion on what next gen console should be.
In my opinion, this was deliberately done by MSFT to hold this gen back.
 

BobbyColtrane

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I have an X, my son splits time at my house and his Mom's where he has an S hooked up to a 1080p monitor where he plays Minecraft, Fortnite, 2K, and all kinds of stuff on Game Pass.

When he's at my house he plays his games on the X.

Its working just fine for us.
 
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Am I missing something here... Series X (humour me) = Big beefy PC with a 3090GTX, Series S = PC with a 2070... Both play the same fucking games only one is better looking.

Is this not what MS wants? Not everyone can afford a 3090 in their PC some can only afford a 2070 so they're catering for both ends of the market and like PCs, both can play every fecking game... So what's the problem?
let me rephrase it for you

if we compare series x to a 3090,
series s would be a... gtx 1660...

rtx 3090 is approximately 2 times faster than a rtx 2070,
series x on the other hand is probably approximately 3.5 times faster than series s (considering one runs at 224 gb/s of bandwidth and other runs at 560 gb/s of bandwidth)

if series s was at least half the power of series x, like your 2070 and 3090 simile, it would be a much stronger console. 6 tflops would mean %50 extra firepower and that would mean a lot. it would easily run AC: Valhalla at 1080p 60 fps. it would easily run Cyberpunk at 900p/1080p 60 fps. it would make all the difference in the world for the series s.

but instead, they went with weird low profile console no one ever requested. supposedly it is more "mobile". come on. you dont carry your monitor or tv around. "my friend have tv in their home, i can take my console there and play it easily!1" this is also funny. these kind of high powered gaming consoles are simply not suitable for this kind of usage.

simply put, they decided to an incredible small device. i respect that. but this came with 20 CUs and 1.5 ghz of core clock. 24 CU+ 1.7 ghz would probably make the device operate near 6 tflops but then the heat becomes a problem.
 
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Some of you forget that 1080p and 1440p are still a big deal today, and these definitions will stay for A LOT OF people.
and you and other people keep forgetting that this machine is not capable of 1080p let alone 1440p for future-next gen games.

it only reliably does 1080p 60 fps in old games like division 2, fallout 4, destiny 2. or old games that are pretending to be new ones (such as hitman 3 or resident evil village, games that have almost completely same graphical fidelity compared to their older ones)

it drops to 720p 60 fps in ac: valhalla. cyberpunk will probably introduce a 720p 60 fps mode for series s with its nextgen patch.
medium runs at 900p/30 fps in single screen and drops to 648p in dual screen.

true test of this console will be made by hellblade 2 and similar games. once those kind of games start to run 720-810p 60 fps on this console, i can assure you, i will have great fun making callbacks to some certain posts in this forum.

because IT will happen. this console will only manage to run hellblade 2 at 810p 60 fps. end of the story. you want anything south of 900p? play at 30 fps. DirectML, like other upscaling tech, won't work efficient enough at such a low resolution. so it wont save the day for series s. at best, it might provide a small bump of image quality, maybe 720p rendering will look like 810p-900p, at best.

on the other hand series x will enjoy 1440p 60 fps and higher quality of directml upscaling. even if you have a 1080p screen, series x is a superior choice because it can output a supersampled image and provide higher quality.

my only gripe is this. people can buy series s if they want or if they're out of budget. but if they're simply buying it because they don't have a 4k screen, they're making a HUGE mistake if they actually have the budget for it. because series x will provide superior quality even on a 1080p panel due to the nature of temporal anti aliasing and resolution scaling.

this is how much supersampling improves a game's image quality AT 1080P:


imagine when native 1080p looks like on the left, how horrible would a game such as RDR 2 would look at 720p-810p (it already runs 864p on One S but runs 1080p on PS4, and naturally players that saw both versions will usually state that PS4 looked superior. 864p is literally 1.3 millions of pixels, while 1080p is actually 1.8 millions of pixels) when you're at a resolution as low as 1080p, you need to STAY THERE to maintain good image quality. even with native 1080p, you can observe how blurry textures become due to TEMPORAL ANTI ALIASING. Going below 1080p simply should not be a thing developers do for Series S. But they will. Happily. They already do.



Series S will run RDR 2 NATIVE 1080p and 60 FPS. That, I'm sure of. But it will be the best looking game it will ever run at native 1080p, probably. Anything nextgen, will go down below 900p.
 
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gundalf

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Once the Xbox Series S is obsolete, Microsoft will just release a successor. MS is eager in keeping the entry barrier to Gamepass as low as possible, the Series X is just the nerd machine.
 

ZywyPL

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because IT will happen.

And yet it won't matter for its targeted audience. I mean, people played at sub-HD for almost a decade long generation, then 900p-FHD, then sub-4K on 1X/Pro, and still do to this day even on XSX/PS5, really, if people cared about resolution that much they would first and foremost play on PC, but they simply don't care. I think XSS biggest issue as of now is how much it resembles One S - it costs the same, looks almost the same, even the name is almost identical, it's like WiiU all over again...
 
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And yet it won't matter for its targeted audience. I mean, people played at sub-HD for almost a decade long generation, then 900p-FHD, then sub-4K on 1X/Pro, and still do to this day even on XSX/PS5, really, if people cared about resolution that much they would first and foremost play on PC, but they simply don't care. I think XSS biggest issue as of now is how much it resembles One S - it costs the same, looks almost the same, even the name is almost identical, it's like WiiU all over again...
you're right on that point.
if a said person does not have absolutely no budget, i cannot judge them. this, i also agree on.

i just hate the console in general, wish it didn't exist so all people were forced to buy a proper nextgen machine. a 400 dollar non disc version would be great.

or a 350 dollar 6 tflops series s... i would SUGGEST the shit out of that console. being 3 times weaker is simply HUGE. 2 times is more affordable in terms of rendering performance. it would be at least like the gtx 1060-1080 situation. instead, we got a 1050ti-1080ti situation :messenger_pouting:
 
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DarkMage619

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you're right on that point.
if a said person does not have absolutely no budget, i cannot judge them. this, i also agree on.

i just hate the console in general, wish it didn't exist so all people were forced to buy a proper nextgen machine. a 400 dollar non disc version would be great.

or a 350 dollar 6 tflops series s... i would SUGGEST the shit out of that console. being 3 times weaker is simply HUGE. 2 times is more affordable in terms of rendering performance. it would be at least like the gtx 1060-1080 situation. instead, we got a 1050ti-1080ti situation :messenger_pouting:
It's so odd to hate a console just because you don't want to buy one. It clearly isn't targeted at you if you aren't interested in lower resolution gaming at a lower price point. If MS increased the specs it would increase the cost and that was something they wanted to avoid. This system will ALWAYS be more affordable than any other current gen console and THAT is what MS was aiming for.

On top of that can you name a lower cost, higher performing device? The Switch is also $299. You think they are equal in performance? They already sell a product for higher end graphics and they didn't need another. Also for all your resolution comments you didn't mention the role VRS, SFS, and VA will play on creating XSS games. Those features haven't all be used on the platform and they will mitigate some of the ram and bandwidth issues. The XSS is fine and it will continue to be fine for this entire generation. MS has never dropped a console mid-gen. If they can support the X1 for 8 years the XSS will receive plenty of support.
 
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