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Can I be honest here...I don’t think the Xbox Series S is going to last very long into the generation.

ManaByte

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So it’s more undesirable and selling slower than the Ouya? Than the 3DO, the CD-I, the Jaguar, the Commodore 64, the Vita etc? Or are you making shit up for, dare I say it, console wars purposes?


The Commodore 64 was hugely successful, but it was actually considered a computer more than a game console.
Commodore 64 sold like hot cakes. At least 7 million in the 80s which was a lot.

7 million? No, try 22 million. At the time it was the most successful computer on the market.
 

DarkMage619

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It's because people can't wrap their heads around understanding another person's options, wants and needs. I'm a "core" gamer and I love the latest flashy gadgets with some of the best performance and graphics I can get etc and I don't mind paying more. The Series X is the console for me out of the two.

My friend likes a casual gaming session. A few F2P Battle Royales along with FIFA and he doesn't like spending a whole lot on game equipment to the point where every penny counts. The Series S is the console he bought and he loves it. I played it at his house and it was a cool little device for what it was.

Unfortunately some people think their opinion is right and is the only thing that makes sense logically. The reality is people don't all view the world in the same way and you fail to try and see it through their eyes.
This is largely true it's just that many detractors aren't simply saying they prefer higher resolutions, they are implying the entire generation of gaming is ruined and that is rubbish. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a higher performance box, MS NEVER sold the XSS as a high end device it simply gives customers options.
 

Chukhopops

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The Commodore 64 was hugely successful, but it was actually considered a computer more than a game console.


7 million? No, try 22 million. At the time it was the most successful computer on the market.
My bad, I was thinking of the one they launched in the early 90s and it’s the CD32. The Commodore 64 might outsell the XSS.
 

dvdvideo

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I'm a fan of the series S, but I cant help but wonder where we would be if ms had instead launched a switch like (dockable) series P with a bit more power than the steam deck
Maybe it's still coming......
 
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Elog

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Not sure what this thread is about. Series S is the cheapest 1080p PC machine money can buy. That is not a bad position to be in.

If you are a gaming aficionado it does not offer much given the price difference with PS5 and XSX but as a casual family gaming station? It functions great as that. The average GPU on Steam as of August 2021 was a 1060 - that is exactly where the Series S is for 300 USD.
 

KAL2006

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180 pounds seems like a deal

I was tempted to buy it in the end didn't thought to myself I already have a massive backlog.

I just don't think the market is there for Series S. Budget gamers will play cross gen games on PS4 and Xbox One. Casual gamers will play there Fortnite and Minecraft on phones, tablets and cheap laptops. There is still a audience but I feel like this audience is small. It's always in stock, seen fire sales and crazy trade in deals in stores. System flooded in marketplace as unwanted gifts. Microsoft also refuse to give sale numbers for it. I just feel it wasn't worth the effort and just made developing multiplaform game more expensive as games would need to be QAd for Series S for this very small market of buyers. Microsoft also have to support this till the end of the generation or there would be lawsuits as this was marketed to play all next gen games so I guess we are stuck with this till the end
 

Azurro

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The Series S is a misunderstanding of the market by MS. The console audience might be price conscious, and most people don't jump in at launch, but rather when the price is lower.

However, most of the console market don't want gimped versions of consoles. They might take a while to buy a PS5, but they don't want to buy a half powered PS4.5, they want the real deal. That's why the Series X sells much better than the S.
 

Chukhopops

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Is there a place where we can view the global sales data of XSS?
There's no way to know but if you look at Amazon you can see the number of reviews for each, which gives you an idea of the X/S ratio:



There's no data for Canada (reviews are mixed) and India (seems like it's not available there?) and of course, this is one retailer and it's impacted by the fact that the XSX is more difficult to find. But still, I reaaaaally don't think the Series S is selling as badly as some people are fantasizing about here.

People keep asking why you'd pay for an inferior product when a better question is why pay more for features you don't need or care about?
 
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Gameplaylover

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The Series S is a misunderstanding of the market by MS. The console audience might be price conscious, and most people don't jump in at launch, but rather when the price is lower.

However, most of the console market don't want gimped versions of consoles. They might take a while to buy a PS5, but they don't want to buy a half powered PS4.5, they want the real deal. That's why the Series X sells much better than the S.
I am sure that In the end S will sell better than X. Remember the PS4 Pro? After the release 80% still bought the normal PS4 although Pro had double the Power for just 100 bucks more. Right now we are still in the core gamer and enthusiasts phase and those are going for the X.
 
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Clear

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Objectively, if it wasn't selling out under this last year's market conditions... When is it likely to?

A refreshed model with double the internal storage at the same price might have a chance, but the current offering just isn't going to do it.
 

Azurro

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I am sure that In the end S will sell better than X. Remember the PS4 Pro? After the release 80% still bought the normal PS4 although Pro had double the Power for just 100 bucks more. Right now we are still in the core gamer and enthusiasts phase and those are going for the X.

The PS4 Pro wasn't introduced at the same time as the PS4 was and it was advertised nowhere near as heavily. People wanted a PS4, and they got a PS4, even if it was when the cost was lower, they weren't getting an inferior product. The Series S is nothing but a gimped Series X, inferior in every way, which brings down its attractiveness by a lot.

The gaming public has never shown they have wanted the gimped model of a console in history, and so far there's no reason to believe that has changed or will change. It's way more likely the Series S will be phased out and replaced by a diskless version of the Series X when that's cheaper to manufacture.
 

elliot5

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Objectively, if it wasn't selling out under this last year's market conditions... When is it likely to?

A refreshed model with double the internal storage at the same price might have a chance, but the current offering just isn't going to do it.
They also make more Series S than X so supply can keep up more with any demand there is for it. It'll prob move more units once Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite come out.
 

FritzJ92

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Objectively, if it wasn't selling out under this last year's market conditions... When is it likely to?

A refreshed model with double the internal storage at the same price might have a chance, but the current offering just isn't going to do it.
But why would last year be an indication of anything?

The people aggressively buying these consoles are your enthusiast and scalpers. This winter will probably be when more casual + Mom & Dads, and budget gamers try to score one for the holiday.
 
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rolandss

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I’d consider getting one as my secondary console. I’ve got a PS5 and always game on PlayStation but MS finally has competition in the exclusives space this gen so the S is a good option for someone like me. I also game on a 1080p TV so ability to push 4k doesn’t bother me.
 

Billbofet

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I have a Series S honestly because I could not get my hands on an X. In the six months I have had it, I have been incredibly impressed with its performance.
I will eventually get an X, but I really don't understand all the hate on the S. I also have an Xbox One X, and it is a significant step up from that in all regards.
My biggest gripe is the internal drive fills up quick, but swapping between the internal and an external has been perfectly fine so far.
 

Hezekiah

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Storage is not a big issue because the XSS has had both expandable storage and external cold storage since day one. That claim can't be made by other platforms. The RAM issue can be addressed if developers take advantage of the memory saving features like SFS. It will take effort but I'm certain MS is more than willing to assist any developer in tapping all the capabilities of their product. By the way how much RAM DO you need to render games at 1080p?

You also don't seem to realize that the XSS is actually cheaper to produce overall because the SOC is smaller and yields per wafer are higher. It remains the easiest way for MS to get people into their ecosystem. It exists for a reason but it isn't a product for everyone.


Put me in this boat. I knew that the XSS wasn't a product for me but I'm glad it exists. It still remains the best value for current generation gaming. That will remain true for this entire generation.
That expandable SSD storage is almost the same price as the console. If you can't see the issue there I don't know what to say. 364GB of storage is pathetic, especially when you consider the lack of software compression compared to other platforms.

I don't care about production cost. The point I'm making is that people are struggling to get a Series X, and Series S consoles have been sitting on shelves for months. "Not for everyone" is an understatement.

That's a big mistake on Microsoft's part, and only increases the disparity between them and the competition.
 

555-Goodbye

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The point I'm making is that people are struggling to get a Series X, and Series S consoles have been sitting on shelves for months. "Not for everyone" is an understatement.
The series S is selling though. Just because it's available means nothing when we don't know how many Microsoft are making available. Check amazon's best sellers in video games and you'll probably see the Series S is the best selling hardware on the market. I've looked a few times recently and it's always been the best selling console when I looked.

this is right now:
 
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FStubbs

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I am sure that In the end S will sell better than X. Remember the PS4 Pro? After the release 80% still bought the normal PS4 although Pro had double the Power for just 100 bucks more. Right now we are still in the core gamer and enthusiasts phase and those are going for the X.
I don't think the PS4 would've outsold the Pro if they had launched simultaneously. The normal PS4 would've been seen as the gimped console.
 

Hezekiah

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The series S is selling though. Just because it's available means nothing when we don't know how many Microsoft are making available. Check amazon's best sellers in video games and you'll probably see the Series S is the best selling hardware on the market. I've looked a few times recently and it's always been the best selling console when I looked.

this is right now:
I think the point is its much less in demand than the other consoles. I seriously doubt Microsoft are making significantly more S consoles than X consoles. It's just that way less people want it.
 

555-Goodbye

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I think the point is its much less in demand than the other consoles. I seriously doubt Microsoft are making significantly more S consoles than X consoles. It's just that way less people want it.
Like I said, unless we know how many are being sold, we can't gauge that, I have no idea how many of each console they're making, but neither do you.

Do I think most enthusiasts on forums like this want a Series X more? Yes. Does that mean nobody wants a Series S? No.

Did I consider getting an S? No.

Do I think everyone shops like I do? No.

I don't think there's much point in these discussions because the conclusions are mainly just people's preferences and prejudices and then some anecdotes about knowing lots of people / not knowing anyone who wanted / didn't want a particular machine.

I think that it's nonsense to think that every Series S sale would be an X if it was available. They sold One S machines after the One X released. People bought them. Phil Spencer famously said that they would sell more S than X machines.

At this point I think it's too early to say how successful the S will be, but I can say it's Amazon (UK's) best selling console and that it is the cheapest way to play next gen games.

If there were more next gen only games on the market then I would expect the case for Series S to be more keenly argued. I still think that they'll sell loads of them at Christmas, whether stores run out or not, but that remains to be seen.
 

Bonfires Down

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How did Xbox One X sell compared to One S?

I don't think the PS4 would've outsold the Pro if they had launched simultaneously. The normal PS4 would've been seen as the gimped console.
That might be true. Which means that it's not about power but about messaging. Time will tell if MS got that right. It's too soon to say now since I think there's one single game that can't be played on last gen Xbox so far.
 

Hezekiah

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Like I said, unless we know how many are being sold, we can't gauge that, I have no idea how many of each console they're making, but neither do you.

Do I think most enthusiasts on forums like this want a Series X more? Yes. Does that mean nobody wants a Series S? No.

Did I consider getting an S? No.

Do I think everyone shops like I do? No.

I don't think there's much point in these discussions because the conclusions are mainly just people's preferences and prejudices and then some anecdotes about knowing lots of people / not knowing anyone who wanted / didn't want a particular machine.

I think that it's nonsense to think that every Series S sale would be an X if it was available. They sold One S machines after the One X released. People bought them. Phil Spencer famously said that they would sell more S than X machines.

At this point I think it's too early to say how successful the S will be, but I can say it's Amazon (UK's) best selling console and that it is the cheapest way to play next gen games.

If there were more next gen only games on the market then I would expect the case for Series S to be more keenly argued. I still think that they'll sell loads of them at Christmas, whether stores run out or not, but that remains to be seen.
Sure mate believe whatever you want to believe. It's the one next gen console that has been available for months on Amazon. Whereas even now you can't kind just log in and buy any of the others. Pure coincidence.

And if it's the best-selling console at this moment it's because there's no stock of the most in-demand consoles. It's not rocket science.
 
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CatLady

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How did Xbox One X sell compared to One S?


That might be true. Which means that it's not about power but about messaging. Time will tell if MS got that right. It's too soon to say now since I think there's one single game that can't be played on last gen Xbox so far.
MSFS 2020.
 
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Bonfires Down

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The PS4 Pro wasn't introduced at the same time as the PS4 was and it was advertised nowhere near as heavily. People wanted a PS4, and they got a PS4, even if it was when the cost was lower, they weren't getting an inferior product. The Series S is nothing but a gimped Series X, inferior in every way, which brings down its attractiveness by a lot.
But the PS4 is inferior to the Pro. It has a slower GPU, slower CPU and less HDD space. Actually the difference isn't that much smaller than the Series X vs the Series S. So, imo, it's not so much about how powerful each system actually is, but about how the general public perceives them, and that can be somewhat controlled by MS marketing.

MSFS 2020.
lol, I was actually thinking about The Medium. But you're right, so there's two significant new gen exclusive games so far.
 
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Hobbygaming

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The series S is selling though. Just because it's available means nothing when we don't know how many Microsoft are making available. Check amazon's best sellers in video games and you'll probably see the Series S is the best selling hardware on the market. I've looked a few times recently and it's always been the best selling console when I looked.

this is right now:
Both the Xbox Series X and the Xbox Series S are out the US top 100 right now. PS5 is number 12

The XSS probably just sells a little better when people cant find the other consoles
 

Hobbygaming

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Sure mate believe whatever you want to believe. It's the one next gen console that has been available for months on Amazon. Whereas even now you can't kind just log in and buy any of the others. Pure coincidence.

And if it's the best-selling console at this moment it's because there's no stock of the most in-demand consoles. It's not rocket science.
PS5 is already back in the top 15

 
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In the hard drive somewhere
MS want to turn this industry into GaaS or at least their own platform. Look how successful they are with office 365 or the the other products. They have recipe for that. I won't be surprised if they introduce Xbox sticks or Xbox tv or Xbox Surface in the future.
 
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MrFunSocks

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If and thats a big if the S doesn't last it wouldn't be from a gaming/performance short-coming but rather from a manufacturing cost one. I do not know the BoM for it but it can't be too far off from the retail price. There isn't a single other consumer product in the market at its retail price point approaching the performance of this very specialized piece of kit in such a tiny form factor, in the DIY space you would be spending twice as much to match it while being twice as big. That can't be cheap to churn out like Switches The cost to produce relative to its retail price could possibly be even more than the Series X to its. What is the incentive to keep producing if it is not selling and you can just make a Series X that do sell on the spot the second they land on shelves?
You’re thinking short term, Microsoft are thinking long term. They have specifically stated why the S exists - this generation will NOT have node shrinks and the associated price drops. You won’t be getting a Series X or PS5 for $350 or $299 likely ever. They made the S to hit those lower price points, so people that wait for price drops will have something to buy - because they will be waiting an eternity for a series X to hit that price.

So while at the moment you might think it’s dumb, in 2023/2024 when the main consoles are still $499, you might understand.

I bought an X on launch day, and I will 100% be buying a series S in the next few years for the 1080p tv in the second lounge room, and probably for one of the spare rooms for my nephews and nieces when they stay over.
 
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DarkMage619

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That expandable SSD storage is almost the same price as the console. If you can't see the issue there I don't know what to say. 364GB of storage is pathetic, especially when you consider the lack of software compression compared to other platforms.

I don't care about production cost. The point I'm making is that people are struggling to get a Series X, and Series S consoles have been sitting on shelves for months. "Not for everyone" is an understatement.

That's a big mistake on Microsoft's part, and only increases the disparity between them and the competition.
364 GB of storage is fine for a casual gamer who only plays a few games at a time. Again you can always use an external hard drive or SSD and move games to internal storage if you need to. Who cares about compression when the costs to play games on other platforms is so much more expensive? External storage is not the price of the console so you are mistaken.

People don't care about production costs they care about retail costs and there is not a current generation console that offers a better value period. Those lower production costs are being passed to the customer in the form of cheaper device. The people who really want a XSX aren't the target audience and that's OK. You seem to confuse your own personal preferences for a console with others that have different wants.

The XSS was a smart decision for MS because it gives customers options that other companies have not offered. It may not impress people on an enthusiast game forum but it is fantastic for gamers on a budget. If you aren't one perhaps you can accept it is not targeting you.
 

Trimesh

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I think this thread is a perfect example of "gaming enthusiast" myopia. There are a lot of people that are simply not ever going to pay $500 or $400 for a game console - but might possibly pay $300. That's the target market for the Series S - it's not intended for the sort of people that post on sites like this.

My personal feeling is that not only is is going to last the entire generation, but it will probably end up being the highest-selling SKU once all the dust settles.
 

Ozriel

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I'm a fan of the series S, but I cant help but wonder where we would be if ms had instead launched a switch like (dockable) series P with a bit more power than the steam deck
Maybe it's still coming......

You think they'd have been able to launch an RDNA2 device more powerful than the Steam Deck in 2020? With reasonable battery life?

Not possible.

Also not feasible at that price, since the would have also had to use the same CPU and SSD speed to prevent extensive Dev rework.
 

Ozriel

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That expandable SSD storage is almost the same price as the console. If you can't see the issue there I don't know what to say. 364GB of storage is pathetic, especially when you consider the lack of software compression compared to other platforms.

I don't care about production cost. The point I'm making is that people are struggling to get a Series X, and Series S consoles have been sitting on shelves for months. "Not for everyone" is an understatement.

That's a big mistake on Microsoft's part, and only increases the disparity between them and the competition.

Series S consoles haven't been 'sitting on the shelves for months', though. That's just crazy talk. In the US, for example, Series S consoles are sold out at all retailers.
In most other territories, they get sold out and replenished. It's selling much slower than the Series X, but it's still selling well. And it's constantly sold out in lower income countries.

It's a smart move from MS. Unlike Sony, they've discontinued the last gen consoles. So the series S takes care of a specific, price conscious section of the market.

Imagine claiming Xbox games lack software compression. I thought the mods had a warning against console warring posted yesterday?
 
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dvdvideo

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You think they'd have been able to launch an RDNA2 device more powerful than the Steam Deck in 2020? With reasonable battery life?

Not possible.

Also not feasible at that price, since the would have also had to use the same CPU and SSD speed to prevent extensive Dev rework.

I suppose they might have has some issues.
Maybe that's what held them up.
The pricing I think is possible if the volume is high enough, and or if they would be willing to lose a bit in each machine in am effort to grab more customers. As to the software, true it would not as easy as the S, but it would be a fixed platform with very similar tech, so it could be done.
 

Ozzie666

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Soon as the S tech can be put into a hand held, that's where they should go. Their own X deck. Maybe the tech is already possible? no idea.
 
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Riky

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too soon to say now since I think there's one single game that can't be played on last gen Xbox so far.

Wrong.

Microsoft Flight Simulator
The Medium
Enlisted
Judgement

Off the top of my head at least four you can't play on Xbox One.

I think it will be more interesting to see how people view Series S when Call Of Duty, Madden/FIFA and GTA are next gen exclusives, a lot of people who only play those ultra popular franchises will be happy to just continue on last gen consoles whilst they can still get those games on what they already own.

When they can't then the price advantage which may be even larger by that point could be a big driver for Series S.
 

Gameplaylover

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I think it will be more interesting to see how people view Series S when Call Of Duty, Madden/FIFA and GTA are next gen exclusives, a lot of people who only play those ultra popular franchises will be happy to just continue on last gen consoles whilst they can still get those games on what they already own.

When they can't then the price advantage which may be even larger by that point could be a big driver for Series S.
This. When the crossgen gen games end the casuals will go for the cheapest console. Spencer also thinks that the S will sell better than the X.
 
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