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Bungie: The potential downstream implications


For those of you living under a rock, In what would seem an ironic twist of fate, Sony has purchased Bungie for a cool 3.6b, some interesting takes/facts:

  • Not a panic buy? Apparently a response to the Bethesda acquisition.
  • Sony actually has money to spend?
  • When is the last time Sony spent any kind of money like this? at once? On gaming?

Now, you're all probably wondering why I brought you here, and that's a perfectly okay question, please have a seat, drinks and snacks will be provided shortly.


The Microsoft acquisition of Activision came as a shock to many and led to a ton of questions surrounding exclusivity, followed by doomsday talk, much in a similar fashion to the purchase of Bethesda. The Bethesda purchase was surrounded by a lot of exclusivity questions which ultimately led Phil to take a stance of best, better, first, then ultimately, Starfield exclusivity to the XBOX ecosystem. Fast forward a year later, and here we find ourselves in another similar situation with Activision. Now, Phill has tried to pin down some type of statement regarding the availability of titles on different platforms going forward, but his messaging hasn't been the best and has led to speculation about what his words/tweets mean.

The Bungie purchase by Sony is really a message, a shot across the bow of Microsoft in two ways, 1. We just bought your darling child. 2. We are drawing our line in the sand regarding availability/exclusivity:




The message couldn't be any clearer, it's reminiscent of when Microsoft greenlit always-on DRM and horrible used game/sharing policies which didn't even see prime time because of the blowback. Microsoft ultimately did right, and never went live with that. The thing now, is Microsoft scooping up beloved IPs and making them exclusive, thus reducing access for everyone (If they actually do it).

Sony's messaging couldn't be clearer, and all it will take, to solidify this is the purchase of another large studio/publisher, like EA or T2, and, to adopt a similar stance on platform availability, at that point, Microsoft is really going to look like the bully (Maybe not bully, but out of tune?), and I imagine they'll revise/take another stance on Bethesda.

It's one thing to buy Ninja Theory or Naughty Dog and make them platform exclusive, it's another to buy multi-billion dollar publishers/studios that are well established on multiple platforms and make them exclusive, it's disruptive, and my take is that if Sony pulls the trigger again, the calculus will be changed at Microsoft as a result.

Edit* SquareEnix will be next, lots of interest in “live services” gaming, and FF14 is piping hot right now. So HOT. Sony wants those recurring revenue streams.
 
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Godot25

Member
:messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Yup. Microsoft will sure poop their pants and release Starfield on PlayStation because Sony bought Bungie...

This is not like anything like this works.

Reason why D2 and next Bungo game will be multiplatform is because Bungie had it as a condition in buyout contract. It is reportedly why Microsoft would not agree to buy Bungie in 2020. Bungie wanted "independence" and self-publishing rights, Microsoft would not allowed it. Sony would. So they went with Sony.


And because of that Sony can't use Bungie as a bargaining chip to force Microsoft to release Bethesda games on PlayStation. They can't even force them to release Call of Duty on PlayStation after 2023.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
:messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Yup. Microsoft will sure poop their pants and release Starfield on PlayStation because Sony bought Bungie...

This is not like anything like this works.

Reason why D2 and next Bungo game will be multiplatform is because Bungie had it as a condition in buyout contract. It is reportedly why Microsoft would not agree to buy Bungie in 2020. Bungie wanted "independence" and self-publishing rights, Microsoft would not allowed it. Sony would. So they went with Sony.


And because of that Sony can't use Bungie as a bargaining chip to force Microsoft to release Bethesda games on PlayStation. They can't even force them to release Call of Duty on PlayStation after 2023.
It’s the same as Microsoft assigning Bethesda to the vault. Sony can do what they want after, they own them after all.
 

Godot25

Member
It’s the same as Microsoft assigning Bethesda to the vault. Sony can do what they want after, they own them after all.
Ehh. No...

If you have a clause in your contract, you have to fulfil it. That comparison with Vault as an entity that swallow Bethesda has literally nothing to do with this situation.
Because nobody from Bethesda's side had an clause that future Bethesda games needs to stay multiplatform. Yes, some games had a deal with Sony (GhostWire and Deathloop) and there is still possibility that some future Bethesda game will be multiplat because of contract (Indiana Jones?) but you are really comparing apples and oranges.

If one of a condition for Bungie to sell was that Sony will allow them to operate independently and allow them to self-publish they can't just make up their minds two years later.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Ehh. No...

If you have a clause in your contract, you have to fulfil it. That comparison with Vault as an entity that swallow Bethesda has literally nothing to do with this situation.
Because nobody from Bethesda's side had an clause that future Bethesda games needs to stay multiplatform. Yes, some games had a deal with Sony (GhostWire and Deathloop) and there is still possibility that some future Bethesda game will be multiplat because of contract (Indiana Jones?) but you are really comparing apples and oranges.

If one of a condition for Bungie to sell was that Sony will allow them to operate independently and allow them to self-publish they can't just make up their minds two years later.
It’s not a contract, it’s an acquisition.
 

Godot25

Member
It’s not a contract, it’s an acquisition.
But acquisition is not only "We are buying you for 3,6 billion dollars" and that's the end
Every acquisition has a conditions that has to be met. And if Bungie's condition was a "independence" and "selfpublishing" under SIE, then Sony has to honor that. I would not be surprised if breaking that clause allowed Bungie to regain their independence.

Think. Why Bungie is not part of PlayStation Studios, but it is placed as a separate entity under SIE? Why on earth would Sony allow them to self-publish their games if they are a publisher? Because they had to to get a deal done.

You are pretending that if I buy a company and part of a contract is that employees does not need to wear blue dresses, I can go there and told everybody they had to wear a blue dresses or else they are fired. I can't.
 

bitbydeath

Member
But acquisition is not only "We are buying you for 3,6 billion dollars" and that's the end
Every acquisition has a conditions that has to be met. And if Bungie's condition was a "independence" and "selfpublishing" under SIE, then Sony has to honor that. I would not be surprised if breaking that clause allowed Bungie to regain their independence.

Think. Why Bungie is not part of PlayStation Studios, but it is placed as a separate entity under SIE? Why on earth would Sony allow them to self-publish their games if they are a publisher? Because they had to to get a deal done.

You are pretending that if I buy a company and part of a contract is that employees does not need to wear blue dresses, I can go there and told everybody they had to wear a blue dresses or else they are fired. I can't.
The only conditions apply are up to the point of sale, nothing carries forward once owned, Sony could strip out their entire management after the sale goes through if they wanted.
 
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Godot25

Member
The only conditions apply are up to the point of sale, nothing carries forward once owned, Sony could strip out their entire management after the sale goes through if they wanted.
Yup.
That's why Jimbo said that future Bungie game will be multiplat (including competing consoles) despite fact that it will be out around 2025 :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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SCB3

Member
Who cares about Destiny 2? It's an old game. There's nothing to gain by making it PS exclusive suddenly.

Future releases by Bungie will surely be PS exclusive.
They're moving towards a 1 Destiny game with expansions, like a MMO is or more recently Hitman, hell I don't even think Bungie call it Destiny 2 really anymore
 
:messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Yup. Microsoft will sure poop their pants and release Starfield on PlayStation because Sony bought Bungie...

This is not like anything like this works.

Reason why D2 and next Bungo game will be multiplatform is because Bungie had it as a condition in buyout contract. It is reportedly why Microsoft would not agree to buy Bungie in 2020. Bungie wanted "independence" and self-publishing rights, Microsoft would not allowed it. Sony would. So they went with Sony.


And because of that Sony can't use Bungie as a bargaining chip to force Microsoft to release Bethesda games on PlayStation. They can't even force them to release Call of Duty on PlayStation after 2023.

It's not about Microsoft soiling itself as you say, it's about one company coming across as the "We actually have solid and easily comprehended wording about availability regarding the big purchase we just made of a multiplat game" as opposed to the "Here is some word salad, interpret it as you may, yes, no, maybe, we'll see" company.
 

Leyasu

Gold Member
michael jordan laughing GIF


GTFO. Sony didn’t pay bungie 3.6bn to have their logo on bungies games splash screen or to have their games exclusive to their subscription service.

This is Phil level good guy pr, and easy to say when bungies next game is 4-5 yrs away.

As I said in another thread by the time their game is ready, the landscape will have changed beyond recognition and it will be easy to justify why it is now exclusive.

After years of laughing at Phil, you are all here lapping this up.

Sony are securing content, Microsoft are securing content. For which they will use to corral people in to their ecosystems. They are not spending billions to continue the status quo.

The next pivot will be towards a pc storefront. For both Microsoft and Sony
 
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skit_data

Member
It does specify Destiny universe games will be multiplat, but is the next game taking place in the Destiny universe?

I really don’t care if their games go multiplatform or not, but I can see them keeping it multiplat acting as a pretty good leverage against Microsoft from a PR perspective.
 
michael jordan laughing GIF


GTFO. Sony didn’t pay bungie 3.6bn to have their logo on bungies games splash screen or to have their games exclusive to their subscription service.

This is Phil level good guy pr, and easy to say when bungies next game is 4-5 yrs away.

As I said in another thread by the time their game is ready, the landscape will have changed beyond recognition and it will be easy to justify why it is now exclusive.

After years of laughing at Phil, you are all here lapping this up.

Sony are securing content, Microsoft are securing content. For which they will use to corral people in to their ecosystems. They are not spending billions to continue the status quo.

The next pivot will be towards a pc storefront. For both Microsoft and Sony

But how do you know this? Is that you setting next to Herman and Pete Parsons? Please tell me more about those private conversations you were privy to.

Securing content is fine, making business moves? Also fine. But, there is such a thing as poor/bad optics, and if Sony laps up another publisher/studio, makes a similar statement regarding availability, it looks bad for the other guy who is running around like the no soup guy from Seinfield.
 

Leyasu

Gold Member
But how do you know this? Is that you setting next to Herman and Pete Parsons? Please tell me more about those private conversations you were privy to.

Securing content is fine, making business moves? Also fine. But, there is such a thing as poor/bad optics, and if Sony laps up another publisher/studio, makes a similar statement regarding availability, it looks bad for the other guy who is running around like the no soup guy from Seinfield.
I don’t know this, just like nobody knows how their plans could change.

Optics don’t mean shit when people are flocking by the millions to your products. Nobody is going to dump PlayStation because of it. Bungie games going exclusive to PlayStation will have the opposite effect. Everyone knows it. That is why Sony opened the treasure room
 

Leyasu

Gold Member
It does specify Destiny universe games will be multiplat, but is the next game taking place in the Destiny universe?

I really don’t care if their games go multiplatform or not, but I can see them keeping it multiplat acting as a pretty good leverage against Microsoft from a PR perspective.
Yeah “Destiny universe”. They won’t touch destiny 2. I personally think that Sony will bring in a support studio to keep destiny 2 going for a few years whilst Bungie works on a new exclusive I.P shooter.

This is just pr. They will use the fact that Microsoft’s I.Ps are now exclusive as an excuse for the change. Jim has been watching Phil speak
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Bungie is an independent studio with a declining ip. I personally think it’s a great purchase for Sony but these threads are getting ridiculous. This is nothing close to a activision/ Bethesda purchase.
 

KungFucius

Member
The message couldn't be any clearer, it's reminiscent of when Microsoft greenlit always-on DRM and horrible used game/sharing policies which didn't even see prime time because of the blowback. Microsoft ultimately did right, and never went live with that. The thing now, is Microsoft scooping up beloved IPs and making them exclusive, thus reducing access for everyone (If they actually do it).
That DRM thing was a solution to being able to sell used games. It would go over much differently now with most people doing digital only. Back then people freaked out because they wanted their disk games with their baked in DRM. Though people still cry about this shit, and not owning games if they play on a service. Everyone will find a way to whine about something.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
All you have to do is take In any of the interviews big Jimbo did yesterday to see that Sony are moving as swiftly as possible away from “PlayStation” as a console platform and instead being a whole media gaming platform similar to what microsoft have done With Xbox.

jims literal words are that Sony want to be multi platform and to do it as quickly as possible and we are already seeing some steps in that direction. Sony is becoming a software publisher and it makes massive sense in A World where customers cant even buy your consoles due to shortages and there being a finite number of console sales a generation.

we will see Sony buy more companies and so will microsoft and I think more and more these games will go everywhere and especially pc.
 

Pallas

Gold Member

For those of you living under a rock, In what would seem an ironic twist of fate, Sony has purchased Bungie for a cool 3.6b, some interesting takes/facts:

  • Not a panic buy? Apparently a response to the Bethesda acquisition.
  • Sony actually has money to spend?
  • When is the last time Sony spent any kind of money like this? at once? On gaming?

Now, you're all probably wondering why I brought you here, and that's a perfectly okay question, please have a seat, drinks and snacks will be provided shortly.


The Microsoft acquisition of Activision came as a shock to many and led to a ton of questions surrounding exclusivity, followed by doomsday talk, much in a similar fashion to the purchase of Bethesda. The Bethesda purchase was surrounded by a lot of exclusivity questions which ultimately led Phil to take a stance of best, better, first, then ultimately, Starfield exclusivity to the XBOX ecosystem. Fast forward a year later, and here we find ourselves in another similar situation with Activision. Now, Phill has tried to pin down some type of statement regarding the availability of titles on different platforms going forward, but his messaging hasn't been the best and has led to speculation about what his words/tweets mean.

The Bungie purchase by Sony is really a message, a shot across the bow of Microsoft in two ways, 1. We just bought your darling child. 2. We are drawing our line in the sand regarding availability/exclusivity:




The message couldn't be any clearer, it's reminiscent of when Microsoft greenlit always-on DRM and horrible used game/sharing policies which didn't even see prime time because of the blowback. Microsoft ultimately did right, and never went live with that. The thing now, is Microsoft scooping up beloved IPs and making them exclusive, thus reducing access for everyone (If they actually do it).

Sony's messaging couldn't be clearer, and all it will take, to solidify this is the purchase of another large studio/publisher, like EA or T2, and, to adopt a similar stance on platform availability, at that point, Microsoft is really going to look like the bully, and I imagine they'll revise/take another stance on Bethesda.

It's one thing to buy Ninja Theory or Naughty Dog and make them platform exclusive, it's another to buy multi-billion dollar publishers/studios that are well established on multiple platforms and make them exclusive, it's disruptive, and my take is that if Sony pulls the trigger again, the calculus will be changed at Microsoft as a result.


Except you can buy these games day 1 on their release on PC, or use Gamepass and cloud to play these on stuff like your phone or tablet.

I don’t understand your argument. Xbox isn’t taking games away.
 

MonarchJT

Banned

For those of you living under a rock, In what would seem an ironic twist of fate, Sony has purchased Bungie for a cool 3.6b, some interesting takes/facts:

  • Not a panic buy? Apparently a response to the Bethesda acquisition.
  • Sony actually has money to spend?
  • When is the last time Sony spent any kind of money like this? at once? On gaming?

Now, you're all probably wondering why I brought you here, and that's a perfectly okay question, please have a seat, drinks and snacks will be provided shortly.


The Microsoft acquisition of Activision came as a shock to many and led to a ton of questions surrounding exclusivity, followed by doomsday talk, much in a similar fashion to the purchase of Bethesda. The Bethesda purchase was surrounded by a lot of exclusivity questions which ultimately led Phil to take a stance of best, better, first, then ultimately, Starfield exclusivity to the XBOX ecosystem. Fast forward a year later, and here we find ourselves in another similar situation with Activision. Now, Phill has tried to pin down some type of statement regarding the availability of titles on different platforms going forward, but his messaging hasn't been the best and has led to speculation about what his words/tweets mean.

The Bungie purchase by Sony is really a message, a shot across the bow of Microsoft in two ways, 1. We just bought your darling child. 2. We are drawing our line in the sand regarding availability/exclusivity:




The message couldn't be any clearer, it's reminiscent of when Microsoft greenlit always-on DRM and horrible used game/sharing policies which didn't even see prime time because of the blowback. Microsoft ultimately did right, and never went live with that. The thing now, is Microsoft scooping up beloved IPs and making them exclusive, thus reducing access for everyone (If they actually do it).

Sony's messaging couldn't be clearer, and all it will take, to solidify this is the purchase of another large studio/publisher, like EA or T2, and, to adopt a similar stance on platform availability, at that point, Microsoft is really going to look like the bully, and I imagine they'll revise/take another stance on Bethesda.

It's one thing to buy Ninja Theory or Naughty Dog and make them platform exclusive, it's another to buy multi-billion dollar publishers/studios that are well established on multiple platforms and make them exclusive, it's disruptive, and my take is that if Sony pulls the trigger again, the calculus will be changed at Microsoft as a result.
the bully? Sony had talk with every dev out there to have exclusive deals ..using the weight of their brand on the market to put Microsoft in a corner. If Microsoft hadn't been so rich Sony would have already given the coup de grace ... exactly as it did not allow Microsoft players to be able to play with theirs so as to show how much less user had they servers and sneak up on their customers. Just pls
 
Except you can buy these games day 1 on their release on PC, or use Gamepass and cloud to play these on stuff like your phone or tablet.

I don’t understand your argument. Xbox isn’t taking games away.

So...games like Starfield and the ES6 going exclusive isn't taking games away from other platforms?
the bully? Sony had talk with every dev out there to have exclusive deals ..using the weight of their brand on the market to put Microsoft in a corner. If Microsoft hadn't been so rich Sony would have already given the coup de grace ... exactly as it did not allow Microsoft players to be able to play with theirs so as to show how much less user had they servers and sneak up on their customers. Just pls

So...Is that still the case? That latter part of your statement? Or did Sony walk that back? So what you are saying, is that companies can have bad practices/vision and later change it up so that it's good for everyone?
 
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MonarchJT

Banned
So...The games like Starfield and the ES6 going exclusive isn't taking games away from other platforms?


So...Is that still the case? That latter part of your statement? Or did Sony walk that back? So what you are saying, is that companies can have bad practices/vision and later change it up so that it's good for everyone?
I don't think Sony has changed in its predatory attitude… it used money as a yardstick against SEGA, bought devs, publishers, and betrayed Nintendo. Used it's weight on the market to obtain exclusives and timed exclusivity,contents and special modes on many third party franchises...and until 2014 (as lately) they did constantly taking big games away like final fantasy or street fighter, so without caring about the consequences of those who played on Xbox or on other platforms before Microsoft entered the market). Things have changed with Nadella and Spencer and the new vision (and importance) that the world of gaming has for Microsoft. Microsoft is dozens of times richer than Sony and they can't afford it anymore to behave like a lion because Microsoft has shown them that can instantly (as they did) take away the games that bring it the most money or starve them from reach world famous franchises. If anyone drew the line on the ground it was Microsoft ... stopping what it has been for years and years.predatory behavior by Sony. Has it changed now? I don't think like I said simply Microsoft's money is bending Sony's will
 
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FUBARx89

Member
I don't think Sony has changed in its predatory attitude… it used money as a yardstick against SEGA, bought devs, publishers, and betrayed Nintendo. Used it's weight on the market to obtain exclusives and timed exclusivity,contents and special modes on many third party franchises...and until 2014 (as lately) they did constantly taking big games away like final fantasy or street fighter, so without caring about the consequences of those who played on Xbox or on other platforms before Microsoft entered the market). Things have changed with Nadella and Spencer and the new vision (and importance) that the world of gaming has for Microsoft. Microsoft is dozens of times richer than Sony and they can't afford it anymore to behave like a lion because Microsoft has shown them that can instantly (as they did) take away the games that bring it the most money or starve them from reach world famous franchises. If anyone drew the line on the ground it was Microsoft ... stopping what it has been for years and years.predatory behavior by Sony. Has it changed now? I don't think like I said simply Microsoft's money is bending Sony's will

Betrayed Nintendo? Didn't Nintendo pull out of their joint venture and someone at Sony was fuming so made PS to basically be petty.
 
:messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Yup. Microsoft will sure poop their pants and release Starfield on PlayStation because Sony bought Bungie...

This is not like anything like this works.

Reason why D2 and next Bungo game will be multiplatform is because Bungie had it as a condition in buyout contract. It is reportedly why Microsoft would not agree to buy Bungie in 2020. Bungie wanted "independence" and self-publishing rights, Microsoft would not allowed it. Sony would. So they went with Sony.


And because of that Sony can't use Bungie as a bargaining chip to force Microsoft to release Bethesda games on PlayStation. They can't even force them to release Call of Duty on PlayStation after 2023.
I thought these companies just decide whoever it is they want to buy without any sort of strategy, road maps or planning years in advance 😂

Was it Schrier who at the start of this gen was saying that there will be heaps of acquisitions from both sides this gen?
 
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Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Except you can buy these games day 1 on their release on PC, or use Gamepass and cloud to play these on stuff like your phone or tablet.

I don’t understand your argument. Xbox isn’t taking games away.

Is this what the kids call gaslighting?

They are taking games away from a userbase twice as large as their own. It’s simple.

But even if you want to debate that, they are taking away games from a > 100 million community.

Your argument isn’t different from “buy an xbox”.
 
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Is this what the kids call gaslighting?

They are taking games away from a userbase twice as large as their own. It’s simple.

But even if you want to debate that, they are taking away games from a > 100 million community.

Your argument isn’t different from “buy an xbox”.
It’s not like consoles are expensive. They are cheap subsidized boxes that are made for consumers to buy so they can use software. Those “100 million” can simply buy a console and have access to everything MS releases. Or a phone, or a tablet, or a desktop. If they are stubbornly attached to PlayStation only, that is their problem and no one else’s.
 

CeeJay

Member
Is this what the kids call gaslighting?

They are taking games away from a userbase twice as large as their own. It’s simple.

But even if you want to debate that, they are taking away games from a > 100 million community.

Your argument isn’t different from “buy an xbox”.
define userbase?

Xbox console + PC + cloud is a hell of a large potential userbase or do you just mean console owners? Remember that with Xcloud all Xbox Ones can stream next gen games along with all Android users and obviously PC can play natively or stream.

Also keep in mind that most if not all upcoming games are next gen only so would never have released on PS4 in the first place regardless of who owned the developer. So really you are looking at a userbase of just PS5 (15 million??) compared to all Xbox One owners (40 million+ via streaming) + Xbox Series owners (about 12 million?) + however many Android owners might use Xcloud and all the PC gamers who might buy those games too. Let's face facts here, Xbox games access is spread across the widest and most diverse set of hardware in the history of gaming. I would imagine that 95% of all Playstation owners have a device that they could play Xbox games on if they wanted to, there are not many who are denied entry simply because a game isn't available natively on the Playstation console.

"buy an Xbox" is such an out of date stance to take, you don't need to buy anything, you already have an Xbox ready device!
 

BeforeU

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Sony only has PlayStation platform. Obviously they would want to expand to other if they can make money. Microsoft on the other hand has huge PC, console and soon lot of set top streaming boxes as well in their ecosystem. They can afford to not release game on Playstation and have it on Gamepass only with huge install base.
 

CuNi

Member
The only conditions apply are up to the point of sale, nothing carries forward once owned, Sony could strip out their entire management after the sale goes through if they wanted.

Show me that you have no idea about M&A and contracts without saying you have no idea about M&A and contracts.
 
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