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Atlantic: The Poor & the Well Off Rebelling Against the Rich in the Republican Party

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wildfire

Banned
A really great write up by the Atlantic. Everything should be read.


The angriest and most pessimistic people in America aren’t the hipster protesters who flitted in and out of Occupy Wall Street. They aren’t the hashtavists of #BlackLivesMatter. They aren’t the remnants of the American labor movement or the savvy young dreamers who confront politicians with their American accents and un-American legal status.

The angriest and most pessimistic people in America are the people we used to call Middle Americans. Middle-class and middle-aged; not rich and not poor; people who are irked when asked to press 1 for English, and who wonder how white male became an accusation rather than a description.

You can measure their pessimism in polls that ask about their expectations for their lives—and for those of their children. On both counts, whites without a college degree express the bleakest view. You can see the effects of their despair in the new statistics describing horrifying rates of suicide and substance-abuse fatality among this same group, in middle age.

White Middle Americans express heavy mistrust of every institution in American society: not only government, but corporations, unions, even the political party they typically vote for—the Republican Party of Romney, Ryan, and McConnell, which they despise as a sad crew of weaklings and sellouts. They are pissed off. And when Donald Trump came along, they were the people who told the pollsters, “That’s my guy.”

They aren’t necessarily superconservative. They often don’t think in ideological terms at all. But they do strongly feel that life in this country used to be better for people like them—and they want that older country back.

You hear from people like them in many other democratic countries too. Across Europe, populist parties are delivering a message that combines defense of the welfare state with skepticism about immigration; that denounces the corruption of parliamentary democracy and also the risks of global capitalism. Some of these parties have a leftish flavor, like Italy’s Five Star Movement. Some are rooted to the right of center, like the U.K. Independence Party. Some descend from neofascists, like France’s National Front. Others trace their DNA to Communist parties, like Slovakia’s governing Direction–Social Democracy.

These populists seek to defend what the French call “acquired rights”—health care, pensions, and other programs that benefit older people—against bankers and technocrats who endlessly demand austerity; against migrants who make new claims and challenge accustomed ways; against a globalized market that depresses wages and benefits. In the United States, they lean Republican because they fear the Democrats want to take from them and redistribute to Americans who are newer, poorer, and in their view less deserving—to “spread the wealth around,” in candidate Barack Obama’s words to “Joe the Plumber” back in 2008. Yet they have come to fear more and more strongly that their party does not have their best interests at heart.


A majority of Republicans worry that corporations and the wealthy exert too much power. Their party leaders work to ensure that these same groups can exert even more. Mainstream Republicans were quite at ease with tax increases on households earning more than $250,000 in the aftermath of the Great Recession and the subsequent stimulus. Their congressional representatives had the opposite priorities. In 2008, many Republican primary voters had agreed with former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, who wanted “their next president to remind them of the guy they work with, not the guy who laid them off.” But those Republicans did not count for much once the primaries ended, and normal politics resumed between the multicultural Democrats and a plutocratic GOP.

This year, they are counting for more. Their rebellion against the power of organized money has upended American politics in ways that may reverberate for a long time. To understand what may come next, we must first review the recent past.
Ben Carson at a town-hall meeting at the University of New Hampshire. Throughout this story, GOP candidates are shown on the stump in the Granite State last summer and fall, in photographs shot for The Atlantic and New Hampshire magazine. (Mark Ostow / New Hampshire magazine / The Atlantic)

Not so long ago, many observers worried that Americans had lost interest in politics. In his famous book Bowling Alone, published in 2000, the social scientist Robert Putnam bemoaned the collapse in American political participation during the second half of the 20th century. Putnam suggested that this trend would continue as the World War II generation gave way to disengaged Gen Xers.

But even as Putnam’s book went into paperback, that notion was falling behind the times. In the 1996 presidential election, voter turnout had tumbled to the lowest level since the 1920s, less than 52 percent. Turnout rose slightly in November 2000. Then, suddenly: overdrive. In the presidential elections of 2004 and 2008, voter turnout spiked to levels not seen since before the voting age was lowered to 18, and in 2012 it dipped only a little. Voters were excited by a hailstorm of divisive events: the dot-com bust, the Bush-versus-Gore recount, the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the Iraq War, the financial crisis, the bailouts and stimulus, and the Affordable Care Act.

Putnam was right that Americans were turning away from traditional sources of information. But that was because they were turning to new ones: first cable news channels and partisan political documentaries; then blogs and news aggregators like the Drudge Report and The Huffington Post; after that, and most decisively, social media.

Politics was becoming more central to Americans’ identities in the 21st century than it ever was in the 20th. Would you be upset if your child married a supporter of a different party from your own? In 1960, only 5 percent of Americans said yes. In 2010, a third of Democrats and half of Republicans did. Political identity has become so central because it has come to overlap with so many other aspects of identity: race, religion, lifestyle. In 1960, I wouldn’t have learned much about your politics if you told me that you hunted. Today, that hobby strongly suggests Republican loyalty. Unmarried? In 1960, that indicated little. Today, it predicts that you’re a Democrat, especially if you’re also a woman.

Meanwhile, the dividing line that used to be the most crucial of them all—class—has increasingly become a division within the parties, not between them. Since 1984, nearly every Democratic presidential-primary race has ended as a contest between a “wine track” candidate who appealed to professionals (Gary Hart, Michael Dukakis, Paul Tsongas, Bill Bradley, and Barack Obama) and a “beer track” candidate who mobilized the remains of the old industrial working class (Walter Mondale, Dick Gephardt, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Hillary Clinton). The Republicans have their equivalent in the battles between “Wall Street” and “Main Street” candidates. Until this decade, however, both parties—and especially the historically more cohesive Republicans—managed to keep sufficient class peace to preserve party unity.

Not anymore, at least not for the Republicans.

The Great Recession ended in the summer of 2009. Since then, the U.S. economy has been growing, but most incomes have not grown comparably. In 2014, real median household income remained almost $4,000 below the pre-recession level, and well below the level in 1999. The country has recovered from the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. Most of its people have not. Many Republicans haven’t shared in the recovery and continued upward flight of their more affluent fellow partisans.

It was these pessimistic Republicans who powered the Tea Party movement of 2009 and 2010. They were not, as a rule, libertarians looking for an ultraminimal government. The closest study we have of the beliefs of Tea Party supporters, led by Theda Skocpol, a Harvard political scientist, found that “Tea Partiers judge entitlement programs not in terms of abstract free-market orthodoxy, but according to the perceived deservingness of recipients. The distinction between ‘workers’ and ‘people who don’t work’ is fundamental to Tea Party ideology.”


It’s uncertain whether any Tea Partier ever really carried a placard that read keep your government hands off my medicare. But if so, that person wasn’t spouting gibberish. The Obama administration had laid hands on Medicare. It hoped to squeeze $500 billion out of the program from 2010 to 2020 to finance health insurance for the uninsured. You didn’t have to look up the figures to have a sense that many of the uninsured were noncitizens (20 percent), or that even more were foreign-born (27 percent). In the Tea Party’s angry town-hall meetings, this issue resonated perhaps more loudly than any other—the ultimate example of redistribution from a deserving “us” to an undeserving “them.”

Yet even as the Republican Main Street protested Obamacare, it rejected the hardening ideological orthodoxy of Republican donors and elected officials. A substantial minority of Republicans—almost 30 percent—said they would welcome “heavy” taxes on the wealthy, according to Gallup. Within the party that made Paul Ryan’s entitlement-slashing budget plan a centerpiece of policy, only 21 percent favored cuts in Medicare and only 17 percent wanted to see spending on Social Security reduced, according to Pew. Less than a third of ordinary Republicans supported a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants (again according to Pew); a majority, by contrast, favored stepped-up deportation.

As a class, big Republican donors could not see any of this, or would not. So neither did the politicians who depend upon them. Against all evidence, both groups interpreted the Tea Party as a mass movement in favor of the agenda of the Wall Street Journal editorial page. One of the more dangerous pleasures of great wealth is that you never have to hear anyone tell you that you are completely wrong.


That's not even a third of the article.


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
As a class, big Republican donors could not see any of this, or would not. So neither did the politicians who depend upon them. Against all evidence, both groups interpreted the Tea Party as a mass movement in favor of the agenda of the Wall Street Journal editorial page. One of the more dangerous pleasures of great wealth is that you never have to hear anyone tell you that you are completely wrong.

Bingo
 
I' don't think Democrats should court these voters, tbh.

How can they not? The middle class is huge and can't be ignored even if it's more conflicted than it ever has been. It's poorer and more aware of its inability to ever be upwardly mobile than it ever has been. These are the people who felt closer to Lou Dobbs than Mitt Romney, and when presented with more of the same circus performers decided the Ringmaster seemed more their type.
 

TimeLike

Member
Is this true? I don't know anyone old enough to verify. Great article. Well worth the time it took to read.

"In 1960, I wouldn’t have learned much about your politics if you told me that you hunted. Today, that hobby strongly suggests Republican loyalty. Unmarried? In 1960, that indicated little. Today, it predicts that you’re a Democrat, especially if you’re also a woman."
 

HariKari

Member
Is this true? I don't know anyone old enough to verify. Great article. Well worth the time it took to read.

"In 1960, I wouldn’t have learned much about your politics if you told me that you hunted. Today, that hobby strongly suggests Republican loyalty. Unmarried? In 1960, that indicated little. Today, it predicts that you’re a Democrat, especially if you’re also a woman."

It's true, partly because the country as a whole is more polarized towards extremes. Candidates reflect that. It wasn't always that way. You could be a "blue dog" democrat and stand to win in an ostensibly conservative state in the past. There aren't a lot of headlines to be grabbed by being a moderate nowadays. A moderate is what the republicans need, because their extremist candidates are completely unelectable.

It's fascinating to read the article, think about the candidates on offer, and wonder how republicans of all dispositions can possibly think their general platform is going to win in the year 2016. The general public has largely moved on from gay marriage, marijuana, and especially abortion, yet these are core issues for republicans. The country continues to gradually turn blue due to shifts in demographics, and yet the republicans refuse to move the slightest bit to the left.

This is the most poignant part, under options to fix the republican party:

Option 3: True Reform

Admittedly, this may be the most uncongenial thought of them all, but party elites could try to open more ideological space for the economic interests of the middle class. Make peace with universal health-insurance coverage: Mend Obamacare rather than end it. Cut taxes less at the top, and use the money to deliver more benefits to working families in the middle. Devise immigration policy to support wages, not undercut them. Worry more about regulations that artificially transfer wealth upward, and less about regulations that constrain financial speculation. Take seriously issues such as the length of commutes, nursing-home costs, and the anticompetitive practices that inflate college tuition. Remember that Republican voters care more about aligning government with their values of work and family than they care about cutting the size of government as an end in itself. Recognize that the gimmick of mobilizing the base with culture-war outrages stopped working at least a decade ago.

How likely do you think that is?
 

spekkeh

Banned
Interesting, it does feel very European. Trump is edging closer to the Geert Wilders type, as well as its demographic. Not necessarily the poor, or even conservatives, but definitely the ones who have most problems with a changing world, and the ones who feel like the wealth is passing them by and going someplace else (probably oblivious to the fact they have four ipads and three tvs).
 

Kathian

Banned
Interesting, it does feel very European. Trump is edging closer to the Geert Wilders type, as well as its demographic. Not necessarily the poor, or even conservatives, but definitely the ones who have most problems with a changing world, and the ones who feel like the wealth is passing them by and going someplace else (probably oblivious to the fact they have four ipads and three tvs).

Well as long as they have iPads and TVs!

These won't be the people with four iPads. They might save up and have older models or have one of the newest because that's what they wanted to spend money on but I think it's disingenuous to suggest their view on their own wealth is delusional. Their biggest worry will be falling opportunity.
 

Hey Dude

Banned
Since then, the U.S. economy has been growing, but most incomes have not grown comparably. In 2014, real median household income remained almost $4,000 below the pre-recession level, and well below the level in 1999. The country has recovered from the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. Most of its people have not

I thought the economy was doing great? 5% unemployment etc?
 

HariKari

Member
I thought the economy was doing great? 5% unemployment etc?

The point is right there in the text. The economy may be doing 'great', but the people employed in that economy are not seeing the benefits, and haven't for some time. Growing income inequality, basically. People can be gainfully employed, but if their purchasing power is significantly eroded while wages stagnate, they suffer.
 

Hey Dude

Banned
The point is right there in the text. The economy may be doing 'great', but the people employed in that economy are not seeing the benefits, and haven't for some time. Growing income inequality, basically. People can be gainfully employed, but if their purchasing power is significantly eroded while wages stagnate, they suffer.
I agree but a lot people ignored these facts when they were gloating over the 5% number.
 

Riddick

Member
I thought the economy was doing great? 5% unemployment etc?

Economic numbers in capitalism are designed to analyze the performance of the government and the country's big corporation and banks, they don't give a flying shit about median income, percentage the median worker took from the productivity gains that year/decade and so on. Even the unemployment numbers are purposely grossly misleading and the stats used to calculate the number has been changed a crapload of times to better deceive the public.
 
It's been my experience that these are also the same class of people that complain endlessly about SWJ's and how America has become too PC.

Great article.
 
The point is right there in the text. The economy may be doing 'great', but the people employed in that economy are not seeing the benefits, and haven't for some time. Growing income inequality, basically. People can be gainfully employed, but if their purchasing power is significantly eroded while wages stagnate, they suffer.

Yep, every generation after the baby boomers have been working more and more hours, for less and less pay.

That kinda happens when you have an entire generation of Americans willing erode workers rights, consumers rights, demonize Intellectualism and cheer when deals are made to ship manufacturing jobs else where.
 

dabig2

Member
I agree but a lot people ignored these facts when they were gloating over the 5% number.

It's all relative. Stagnant wages and the problems relating to it have been the new normal for decades. Basically, if you're a Gen X or a millennial, you've never known a time where the economy hasn't strangled your purchasing power.

edit: lol, beaten above.
 
I don't like how the article defines the middle class.

Other than that it's a great article as per standard for The Atlantic. It's depressing how there's more money than ever, but we keep working more and more for less.

The system is reaching boiling point.
 
I don't like how the article defines the middle class.

Other than that it's a great article as per standard for The Atlantic. It's depressing how there's more money than ever, but we keep working more and more for less.

The system is reaching boiling point.

What do you object about the definition?
 

aeolist

Banned
This is the most poignant part, under options to fix the republican party:



How likely do you think that is?

not possible. democrats aren't really that far left of center, if the republicans did all of that there basically wouldn't be a difference between the parties.
 
not possible. democrats aren't really that far left of center, if the republicans did all of that there basically wouldn't be a difference between the parties.

Why is it not possible? Ideological shifts happen. If Republicans move closer to the center then Democrats will move further to the left to differentiate themselves.
 

tokkun

Member
I don't think the article really makes the point to support its argument that these people are rebelling "against the rich". It may be true that they are on different sides, but there is not a lot of evidence that the Trump supporters are anti-rich. Trump himself is obviously extremely rich, and his tax proposals still favor the rich as much as any of the establishment candidates.

Bernie Sanders is a candidate with a constituency that is rebelling against the rich; that is a pillar of his campaign. Not so with Trump, Carson, Cruz, or whoever you want to hold up as the banner-bearer for the mood of the Republican base this cycle.
 

aeolist

Banned
Why is it not possible? Ideological shifts happen. If Republicans move closer to the center then Democrats will move further to the left to differentiate themselves.

because despite the few polls cited showing some republican support for raising taxes on high earners, democratic policies are not popular with the right wing base. they don't want immigration reform, they want closed borders. they don't want sensible regulations, they want no regulations. they don't really want populist changes like universal healthcare or expanded entitlement programs either, because those benefit minorities.

now maybe you could hypothesize a reformed republican party that manages to lead its constituency instead of just practicing reactionary fearmongering, but i think that's outside the realm of possibility for the near future.
 

wildfire

Banned
I don't think the article really makes the point to support its argument that these people are rebelling "against the rich". It may be true that they are on different sides, but there is not a lot of evidence that the Trump supporters are anti-rich. Trump himself is obviously extremely rich, and his tax proposals still favor the rich as much as any of the establishment candidates.

Bernie Sanders is a candidate with a constituency that is rebelling against the rich; that is a pillar of his campaign. Not so with Trump, Carson, Cruz, or whoever you want to hold up as the banner-bearer for the mood of the Republican base this cycle.


Regarding Sanders they touch on this twice in the part I quoted. Trump supporters see for various reasons huge swaths of the democratic party as undeserving of benefits. It's a major social blind-spot that needs to be torn down if any attempt is made to convince them the Democratic party can look out for them instead of taking away more of the little wealth they have left.

Regarding Trump they also touch on this as well. Trumps tax plans do benefit the wealthy but he shrouds how that works out because most of them lack the education to really look over the details of what he says. On top of that unlike the standard Republicans he is going to support them not with tax breaks but an actual income bonus during the tax season and he intends to protect them from immigrants who they feel are making the labor market too competitive and thus lowering the overall wages that could be earned.
 
Nothing will ever change. The rich will keep themselves rich, and companies will do everything they can to pay people as little as possible because ultimately almost all of us are replaceable and maybe even not necessary if they really think about it.

As automation and artificial.intelligence becomes better the demand for workers will be less and less and the rich will keep more and more of the profit.

Things are looking worse for the majority of America, not better. They have control and are not giving it up, no matter who is president or who is in government.
 
these people have legit gripes. how would you feel if you live in a country where your chances for upward mobility are slim? And your ass knows you're going to retire broke as fuck.

It's a problem.

Politicians need to just talk about taking care of the middle class. Fuck everything else and the stupid dog and pony shows.

Trump's appeal is that in these peoples minds he would address that issue.
 
Basically can be summed up as, "They've been voting against their best interest for so long just so they can keep the others down that they didn't realize how badly they had fucked themselves too."

Now they're at a conflicting moment in their life. Continue to vote against their self interest and in the process fuck themselves over, or vote in their interest which also means the "others" benefit.
 

aeolist

Banned
Basically can be summed up as, "They've been voting against their best interest for so long just so they can keep the others down that they didn't realize how badly they had fucked themselves too."

Now they're at a conflicting moment in their life. Continue to vote against their self interest and in the process fuck themselves over, or vote in their interest which also means the "others" benefit.

someday someone will figure out how to campaign for entitlements that don't benefit minorities and the current republican party will be no more
 

tokkun

Member
Regarding Trump they also touch on this as well. Trumps tax plans do benefit the wealthy but he shrouds how that works out because most of them lack the education to really look over the details of what he says. On top of that unlike the standard Republicans he is going to support them not with tax breaks but an actual income bonus during the tax season and he intends to protect them from immigrants who they feel are making the labor market too competitive and thus lowering the overall wages that could be earned.

I think the latter only demonstrates that they are protectionist / nationalist, not that they are anti-rich. And of course - unlike Mitt Romney - Trump revels is bringing up his wealth at every opportunity. Really the only direct appeal he has made to anti-rich sentiment has been when criticizing opponents for taking campaign donations, but even then he talked about how he was such a donor, and was attacking the system rather than the rich people exploiting it.

This might seem like a distinction without a difference, but if there was a large portion of the Republican base who were actually anti-rich (as opposed to just being on a different side of the immigration debate), that would represent a fundamental schism in the party. Republicans can't just become anti-wealth because of the country-club Republicans and Big Business wing. A disagreement over immigration is not an existential problem.
 

Rockandrollclown

lookwhatyou'vedone
I'm glad to see that we're finally getting to a point where even conservatives are seeing the issue with wealth distribution in this country. Honestly this article sounds like most of my relatives, they still hold on to being mad at minorities and immigrants for "stealing from the system", but for the first time ever they're starting to see the 1% as a bigger threat.
 
No wonder Trump is doing so well. His policies are far more liberal than his competition, but since he prioritizes it all around true red blooded white America, the Republicans love him.

It seems like these are the type of folks who would rather have no benefits at all to ensure that non citizens don't get any either. They played into the elites' hand for too long though. They see they are being duped despite cutting their noses to spite their faces.

If democrats want to court this group, they need to drop being so PC.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Well as long as they have iPads and TVs!

These won't be the people with four iPads. They might save up and have older models or have one of the newest because that's what they wanted to spend money on but I think it's disingenuous to suggest their view on their own wealth is delusional. Their biggest worry will be falling opportunity.

Not to mention that comes close to the "poor have TVs and refridgerators, they're not poor!"

By those standards, no one should be complaining, because we live in the richest and most peaceful time for the average person in recorded history. That doesn't mean there aren't iniquities that have to be addressed, or that people can't rightfully think that their fair share is getting passed around and given to someone else.

It's true, partly because the country as a whole is more polarized towards extremes. Candidates reflect that. It wasn't always that way. You could be a "blue dog" democrat and stand to win in an ostensibly conservative state in the past. There aren't a lot of headlines to be grabbed by being a moderate nowadays. A moderate is what the republicans need, because their extremist candidates are completely unelectable.

And that just makes me sad. I don't see how we can expect to have solid and effective governance if there's incentives for politicians to never collaborate and compromise. We'll just lurch from one set of polices to another whenever the political tide changes.

On a micro level, I think there's a reason to pine for days when people didn't feel the need to cloak themselves in ideology as a way of belonging/ostracizing others.

No wonder Trump is doing so well. His policies are far more liberal than his competition, but since he prioritizes it all around true red blooded white America, the Republicans love him.

It seems like these are the type of folks who would rather have no benefits at all to ensure that non citizens don't get any either. They played into the elites' hand for too long though. They see they are being duped despite cutting their noses to spite their faces.

If democrats want to court this group, they need to drop being so PC.

I agree, but I don't think "dropping the PC talk" means "start saying bigoted things", it's "tell it like it is," it's "discuss the realities of things even when it goes against the common wisdom". Even on this forum you see people who might not like a lot of what Trump says, but his genuineness appeals to them. The concerns of gaffes and social media blunders have cultivated candidates who don't feel genuine and can't speak honestly, and that's not helpful. I'd like to think that if there's a benefit to Trump's candidacy, it's that it might enable similar populist candidates to cut through the bull—hopefully candidates who also understand that "speaking truth" does not equal "act like a complete asshole".
 
I' don't think Democrats should court these voters, tbh.
It's not effective either. This is a group of people that despises welfare and handouts, despite benefitting from them and using them. The racial politics are too hot for lower and middle class whites to shift to the current democrat party. Clinton won some of those types by promising reform for welfare and cutting it in other instances. Obama has expanded those programs. Not to mention the benefits non-citizens receive, or the perception that they're receiving benefits which they aren't actually receiving.

One of the biggest reasons why Obamacare won't be popular anytime soon is because it largely benefits the poor while having little to no benefit for middle class workers. Their private insurance premiums and deductibles have risen yearly while Obamacare offers cheap insurance to the poor. Yet the poor tend to collect handouts and not vote consistently, whereas those who make more money vote. So there's a weird dynamic of more and more anti-healthcare republicans winning on the state level despite so many (poor or working class) people benefitting from Obamacare.

The smart play here is for republicans to offer actual solutions for the middle class and compromise with Obamacare, as Frum argues. Increasing the income limit for tax credit eligibility is an obvious example of how to do this. Instead republicans demand full repeal and have no solutions. When I worked in a health field I saw multiple poor conservatives change their mind on Obamacare the minute they realized it could help them. There's definitely a path to victory for republicans if they recognize that a lot of their base is more concerned with economic help than fetishized obsession with the national debt or constitution.
 

epmode

Member
I'm tired of hearing about how great the economy is doing. Virtually all of us make roughly the same amount as we did thirty+ years ago but prices continue to rise.

edit: What am I saying. Just gotta hold on for a few more years and all that extra money will trickle right down.
 

wildfire

Banned
I think the latter only demonstrates that they are protectionist / nationalist, not that they are anti-rich. And of course - unlike Mitt Romney - Trump revels is bringing up his wealth at every opportunity. Really the only direct appeal he has made to anti-rich sentiment has been when criticizing opponents for taking campaign donations, but even then he talked about how he was such a donor, and was attacking the system rather than the rich people exploiting it.

This might seem like a distinction without a difference, but if there was a large portion of the Republican base who were actually anti-rich (as opposed to just being on a different side of the immigration debate), that would represent a fundamental schism in the party. Republicans can't just become anti-wealth because of the country-club Republicans and Big Business wing. A disagreement over immigration is not an existential problem.

You put forward very nicely why the Republicans were able to form a big Tent way back when. A lot of white Republicans did idolize the wealthy because that's what they themselves aspire to be. As it stands though they clearly are attacking what the biggest donors seem to be promoting if the assessment by the Atlantic is accurate enough. If the Republican elite aren't careful they can instigate a full schism on the same level of the Protestant movement.

For now Trump is the rich man his supporters think they want to be leading them and they should be aspiring to be. Unless the Republican elite reform themselves Trump could run for a second presidential attempt in 2020.

No wonder Trump is doing so well. His policies are far more liberal than his competition, but since he prioritizes it all around true red blooded white America, the Republicans love him.

It seems like these are the type of folks who would rather have no benefits at all to ensure that non citizens don't get any either. They played into the elites' hand for too long though. They see they are being duped despite cutting their noses to spite their faces.

If democrats want to court this group, they need to drop being so PC.

Whether or not we are politically correct is masking the issues and goals. I don't think we should stop being political correct so that it's ok for everyone to be racist towards each other. That's a step back for racial harmony because it promotes discord. It would be ok to stop being politically correct by not shutting down whenever someone is trying to talk but you can't half ass this and not demonstrate your ability to understand what we are trying to get across in the first place.
 
No wonder Trump is doing so well. His policies are far more liberal than his competition, but since he prioritizes it all around true red blooded white America, the Republicans love him.

It seems like these are the type of folks who would rather have no benefits at all to ensure that non citizens don't get any either. They played into the elites' hand for too long though. They see they are being duped despite cutting their noses to spite their faces.

If democrats want to court this group, they need to drop being so PC.

What does this even mean? and what does this have anything to do with the situation at hand?
 

wildfire

Banned
What does this even mean? and what does this have anything to do with the situation at hand?

Well it could mean a lot of things but based on this article you could interpret it as "Stop saying they should feel bad for looking down on minorities and illegal immigrants."

*shrugs*

I'm curious about his specific stance as well.
 
The Republicans have their equivalent in the battles between “Wall Street” and “Main Street” candidates. Until this decade, however, both parties—and especially the historically more cohesive Republicans—managed to keep sufficient class peace to preserve party unity.

There's an interesting dynamic at work here. Wall Street Republicans listen to Rubio and think "I'd hire him." Main Street Republicans listen to Trump and think "I'd follow him." The GOP is having trouble finding a candidate that can inspire both reactions.

Well it could mean a lot of things but based on this article you could interpret it as "Stop saying they should feel bad for looking down on minorities and illegal immigrants."

*shrugs*

I'm curious about his specific stance as well.

+1. I'd love to hear someone articulate exactly what Carson and Trump mean when they say America has become "too PC."
 

aeolist

Banned
i can appreciate someone wanting a candidate who speaks freely and doesn't give off the feeling of being groomed by professional PR reps 24 hours a day

but wanting that more than actually decent policy is insanity
 
What do you object about the definition?

White folks afraid of having their white privilege revoked. I'm being simplistic here, but that's the aspect that bugs me. But maybe I missed the part where the article explicitly says its referring to "middle class republicans".
 
What does this even mean? and what does this have anything to do with the situation at hand?

I think a simple way of lookong at it is this.

Democrats tell the middle class they are being screwed by the wealthy.

Republicans tell the middle class they are being screwed by entitlements.

Trump tells the middle class they are being screwed by both, and has obvious policy positions (aggressive progressive taxation, aggressive anti immigration) that reflect this.

It's all wrapped in a terrible package imo, but I can see why the appeal is there for the disillusioned.
 

aeolist

Banned
I think a simple way of lookong at it is this.

Democrats tell the middle class they are being screwed by the wealthy.

Republicans tell the middle class they are being screwed by entitlements.

Trump tells the middle class they are being screwed by both, and has obvious policy positions (aggressive progressive taxation, aggressive anti immigration) that reflect this.

It's all wrapped in a terrible package imo, but I can see why the appeal is there for the disillusioned.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/analysi...-big-cuts-in-taxes-federal-revenue-1450807194

trump's tax policy is as regressive as the rest of the GOP candidates, it hugely benefits the wealthy and cuts revenue by something like $10 trillion over the next decade

that he's been able to push this and still sell himself as the anti-establishment candidate is one of the greatest political con jobs i've ever seen, and a sad indictment of the american electorate's love of spectacle over substance
 
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