NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Booooo, stop trying to take RetroUSB's thunder, Analogue NT.
Edit: Though I will admit I like that it includes S-Video and Composite in addition to HDMI, wish the AVS had that.
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Analogue NT ($578 HDMI NES) |OT| Better than anything, and ready to ship years ago
- Thread starter Chittagong
- Start date
Booooo, stop trying to take RetroUSB's thunder, Analogue NT.
Edit: Though I will admit I like that it includes S-Video and Composite in addition to HDMI, wish the AVS had that.
"Powerpak and Everdrive compatibility (Click for more details)". I can't click it for more details, but I wonder what they'll say, considering I returned my original NT due to the fact that the compatability with the Everdrive was absolute garbage.
DarkConfidant
Member
ugh...my wallet...noooo!!!!
I can't figure out whether I want this or the AVS.....or the mini classic!
Chairman85
Member
Someone who is not me should probably make it, if so.
sixteen-bit
Member
It's more than 2x the price of the AVS, so it's probably aimed at a separate market.
Beer Monkey
Member
Just ordered the Analogue NT Mini! 1080p for integer scaling, RGB, s-video, just what I want.
Will likely sell my RGB AV Fami and that should cover half of the purchase no problem.
Will likely sell my RGB AV Fami and that should cover half of the purchase no problem.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
They should have figured out a way to stick a few of the Wii Remote expansion ports on there so folks could buy Nintendo's new NES controllers and plug 'em right in.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I really wish they'd label these ports so I knew what they were. I'm not seeing anything like Nintendo's usual MultiAV out, how would you get S-Video out of this thing?
sixteen-bit
Member
How much are you selling the AV Fami for?
I really wish they'd label these ports so I knew what they were. I'm not seeing anything like Nintendo's usual MultiAV out, how would you get S-Video out of this thing?
From their FAQ page:
Yes, we redesigned the entire motherboard to provide HD and analog video outputs in the same unit. No more upgrades. The Nt mini outputs 1080p/720p/480p via HDMI and RGB, Component, S-video and composite video via a VGA port.
https://support.analogue.co/hc/en-us/articles/224996348-Nt-mini-FAQ
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
So I'd have to get a VGA to S-Video cable? That seems...complicated.
They typically sell them on their store. Their site sucks but eventually the store will display the accessories for sale.
sixteen-bit
Member
VGA is a video standard, right? Should'nt they correct it to "D-sub 15 port" instead of "VGA port" if it's not outputting VGA?
Beer Monkey
Member
Polioliolio
Member
Brutal price, but it's clearly a luxury product. I mean they're also selling a solid 24k gold version for 5000 bucks.
Already preordered AVS, but after all this hoopla for HD classic gaming comes and possibly goes, I wonder if the preferred method will eventually be composite output on a 13 inch television in your dad's garage.
Already preordered AVS, but after all this hoopla for HD classic gaming comes and possibly goes, I wonder if the preferred method will eventually be composite output on a 13 inch television in your dad's garage.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I'll eventually be picking up an AVS for convenience but I have to say that my preferred method of playing NES games will still likely be on a standard CRT television over composite. I feel like it's just "the way it was meant to be played" and all of these RGB mods are making that signal a bit too clean. It doesn't match up with my nostalgia.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
$449? Goooo fuck yourself.
I could understand the regular Analogue NT being $500 to some extent because of the cost of parts, but $449 for an FPGA? Either I'm missing something, or this is some hardcore price gouging.
I could understand the regular Analogue NT being $500 to some extent because of the cost of parts, but $449 for an FPGA? Either I'm missing something, or this is some hardcore price gouging.
In my mind it's a significant gamble to assume the FPGA is spot on, and there aren't any issues with Everdrive, etc.
I wish there was a plastic option, I don't care about aluminum, but like you said premium product :O
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
They do throw in a wireless controller (though it looks ridiculous) and receiver, so that's probably $50 worth worth extra stuff, but yeah overall the Nt Mini seems like it's $50 to $100 more than it probably should be.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
This was my first thought as well. I imagine they went with a D-sub 15 to keep cost down (1 part vs a bunch, commonly available vs kinda sorta custom for multi-out) but I'd really prefer a multi-out.
I thought you mostly did CRT anyway? If so isn't your AV Fami a better option, since it's 100% real hardware? Like at best the FPGA will be as good as a clone system... which is good mostly usually for the most part but you can still run into issues that would just never be there on the real thing.
ToastyFrog
Inexplicable Treasure Hate
I asked about that possibility and they made it pretty clear they're only interested in working at the premium level. I feel like that's OK? The AVS exists as a more affordable clone option now, and there's stuff like RetroN 5 for those who DGAF. High-performance retrogaming is a pretty niche corner of the market, and I know people who own high-end steering wheel and flight stick controllers that cost a lot more than the Nt Mini. If the Nt were the only HDMI NES available I'd be annoyed at the premium focus, but at this point it's simply part of a spectrum of choices, many of them quite solid.
thepenguin55
Member
As someone who preordered an Nt system from the first wave day 1, this is kind of infuriating for a number of reasons:
- A crazy number of production/shipping delays with not great communication on why and long spans of time without any information about what's going on (they became a little better with communication as the Nt's first wave came closer to release).
- The mistake made with my order. The system was supposed to be painted red and was not. Thankfully, they were good about refunding that charge.
- Having to commit to only HDMI if you wanted an HDMI enabled system.
- The HDMI Nt system's compatibility issues with certain games on day one.
- Updating the first wave HDMI Nt system was/is an annoying process as there is not a memory card slot in the system, so to update your system you had to effectively request to borrow an update cart and it would be sent to you. If I didn't stumble upon information for the update cart almost by accident I would not have even known it existed.
- The steeper price tag I paid.
Despite all of this, the Analogue guys were always great about working with me to fix my problems anytime I sent them an email and I do enjoy my Nt. Now that it's fully updated I think the Nt is a great product, but I would have to recommend NOT getting a Nt mini system from the first wave. I say that because many of the issues I have/had were ironed out or resolved with the second wave.
This answers what could possibly have been next for them, because repurposing older chips into a fresh system wasn't looking very viable from this point onwards. Interesting to see a second FPGA implementation of the NES, and it will be fun to compare features with the AVS once this is out into the wild...
I just received my RGB NT back from them, BTW. Happy to see more choices for the NES ahead.
I just received my RGB NT back from them, BTW. Happy to see more choices for the NES ahead.
Any chance the Mini can ever be updated to output at 2160p? Does it support HDMI 2.0?
EDIT: I asked Analogue and the reply I got was, "No comment
"
Which I guess I'm meant to take as a tentative yes? Although the coy evasion is a bit infuriating considering how much money I'm being asked to lay out up front for this thing.
EDIT: I asked Analogue and the reply I got was, "No comment
"Which I guess I'm meant to take as a tentative yes? Although the coy evasion is a bit infuriating considering how much money I'm being asked to lay out up front for this thing.
Beer Monkey
Member
I do most of my daily solo play (and all my twitch stuff like Punch-Out!!) on a real CRT, but when I have friends over I plug into the plasma in the living room with the couch (using s-video).
Mine too. I could never justify the outlay Analogue are asking for when it's basically an unproven clone at this stage. They really need to be 100% clear about accuracy and issues like Everdrive compatibility before they start asking people for money.
Any chance the Mini can ever be updated to output at 2160p? Does it support HDMI 2.0?
EDIT: I asked Analogue and the reply I got was, "No comment
Which I guess I'm meant to take as a tentative yes? Although the coy evasion is a bit irritating considering how expensive this thing is.
I'd take it as a 'we don't know, but intend to keep upgrading capabilities post-launch'. I remember reading that the AVS couldn't go beyond 720p because they were pushing its FPGA as hard as they could and opted to prioritize other features ahead of 1080p. If that holds, then you'd have to assume that the FPGA in the Analogue is sitting on even more unused power which could eventually be aimed towards handling 4K. Given the company's history, I'd advise against betting on this should you buy the NT mini. Take them for what they're describing now, rather than future hopes that (sometimes even despite best intentions) may not materialize.
The email said kevtris is behind this, so I'd assume it's completely legit. The original NT had kevtris's HDMI mod bolted on late into production. If kevtris is claiming 100% compatibilty we should be good.
Kinda wish I had held off on the AVS and gotten this instead. It's more fully featured.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Cool solution to the lack of chips. I'll do a thread tonight if nobody else has. Not sure if making it smaller is that good an idea, I like how the OG Analogue NT is sized to match the FDS.
It's less the no comment and more the winky face that makes me think they've got something up their sleeves.
Still, support for HDMI 2.0 should be a firm, hardware-based yes or no, and without that there's no 4K, so an answer there is what I would have preferred.
You have time to cancel, no?
Chittagong
Gold Member
Does it make a difference whether the 4K is upscaled in the console rather than TV?
Like the hat?
Banned
Wish the avs had component video support for my crt, but it'll still do for half the price
dcx4610
Member
It's a programmable chip that you can tell to run with the exact specs as the NES CPU and PPU.
Systems like the Retron make a ROM dump of the cart when you stick it and then run a software emulator to play the game.
The NT Mini and the AVS play the games directly from the carts without any emulation. For all intents, the game thinks it's being played from an NES and be 100% compatible as long as the FPGA is programmed correctly.
As far as overclocking, yep. You can eliminate slowdown. Some emulators have had this for years. Double Dragon on Genesis is a good example. It's absolutely horrible. It literally plays in slow motion. You can increase the CPU speed and then it runs normally. The CPU was just too slow to keep up and the overclocking fixes it.
The AVS also has an extra sprite feature that the NT-Mini might have too which eliminates sprite flickering in games like TMNT.
FPGAs are going to change everything now that they are fairly affordable. We'll hopefully get 100% perfect Genesis and SNES clones (a bit tougher) coming soon.
Will be interesting to see how accurate the FPGA implementation is on this and the AVS. It's really awesome that retro reproduction consoles are turning to hardware solutions as they are theoretically more accurate and faster than software emulation and they don't have to worry about scrounging for parts.
Not gonna buy one until they come out with a SNES version though. I wonder if it's even possible to do SNES on an FPGA? Did some googling and found a couple hobby projects though nothing that looked extremely successful.
Not gonna buy one until they come out with a SNES version though. I wonder if it's even possible to do SNES on an FPGA? Did some googling and found a couple hobby projects though nothing that looked extremely successful.
Am I reading this right? No 240p? Or is it just poorly worded?
Not to sidetrack, but it really is shocking how poorly Double Dragon 2 performs on the Mega Drive. I'm going to absolve the fantastic 68K CPU of this one. A pretty clear case of poor and/or rushed programming that didn't optimize the use of the hardware to deliver the performance we expect out of this platform. A total shame, too, because it could be have been a rather nice and faithful port. I still dig the soundtrack.
Those resolutions are over HDMI. Should be covered with S-Video and Composite, although I do wonder if Component will handle 240p also (480i/p is a possibility here).
Kawika
Member
As an original owner of the Wave 1 of the NT I am very pleased with my purchase. The right thing to do was develop a daughter board for us that thought we were going to get both RGB and HDMI when we ordered it. I am not sure if it will ever be possible.
Kevtris will likely have his own thing later on (Zimba 3000). My feeling on this is. Wait for the 2nd release. They added a composite out for the HDMI kits if you own the regular wave 1 NT you are shit out of luck if you want to add the composite.If you want analog and hdmi out with your wave one NT you are going to need to buy a XRGB. This isn't accurate, you can add the composite out if you send it in.
I will put money on the following:
- Wave 2 of the Mini will likely have a higher resolution scaler.
- They will see that their premium customers will likely not bite more than once for a $450 NT (especially, when its not official Nintendo ppu/cpu hardware). so they will likely make an even cheaper one. The AVS is going to take a large chunk of would-be NT buyers and the Aluminum case is completely unnecessary. .
As much as I like my Analogue NT we weren't even notified that you could get RGB OR HDMI. When pre-orders went up, many of us went for this because of the RGB & HDMI in one unit. Weeks before my order went out, someone posted in this thread that they removed the RGB option from the HDMI kit and didn't communicate that to us until we started emailing them about it. A lot can change between now and January.
Really depends on the quality of the scaler.
I'd trust a scaler from a source component more than a TV though.
They're going for the luxury market. You pay for the bling.
4K TVs use bilinear interpolation for their 1080p upscaling, which can give a film a slight edge compared to a native 1080p display, but for low res videogames you really want a nearest neighbour upscale so that the image is just as crisp. Interpolation means blur.
interpolation also means lag to compute the inbetween lines, but nearest neighbour can be done in real time.
4K rendering means even scan lines in full screen, which is not possible with 1080p (which isn't an integer multiple of 240p)
Chittagong
Gold Member
cheers guys, the nearest neighbour upscaling benefit definitely makes sense.
created a new thread for new news:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1267746
created a new thread for new news:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1267746
Kawika
Member
I am not interested in any HDMI kit that doesn't do 4K. The future is now and if you aren't not doing 4K I will just wait till you do.