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Activision/Blizzard and MIT announce "Diversity Space Tool", a software that helps developers determine how diverse their characters are

Here's an example of what I mean, youtube thumbnails

That was interesting. Thanks for sharing.
 

mrabott

Member
The problem is that the games, with few exceptions, are made to please the US gaming market.
The rest of the world has to put up with the racial problems that happen in this country. See if the European player cares about this? Take a country like the Czech Republic, with most of its citizens white. This player cares little for Afrodescendent characters.

Games must be made targeting players around the world. The industry should put the US aside a little and rely more on other cultures.
 
This is great, basically anything that uses this I know not to waste my time with. So right now that's anything Activision or Blizzard release. This actually helps me.
 

Salz01

Member
Maybe they should have used the money to build a ’Is our Management Shit’ tool….. are the devs treated well, are women treated equal, are our products delivered bug free, are we investing in other products and ips besides COD….. are the character avatars in COD not some fucking potato head looking doofs….

Not…. What fucking skin color is being represented excel spreadsheet bullshit….
 

Azurro

Gold Member
I am European, I do not even know what that is... I am done with the crazy stuff Americans do.

Well, you kind of have to, they tend to export their insanity to other places. Canada is their first importer of ideas, Western Europe next and even Mexico is starting to have "gender neutral" crazies now.
 

SoulTas

Neo Member
I have given up on western "AAA" developers for some time now. SJW activists have taken over the hobby, almost completely. Just like comics and TV shows. They won.

But not completely. They still can't travel in time and ruin older media. Thankfully, there is a huge backlog of older games that are not poisoned by this current day propaganda.

So for me the solution is this: Stop supporting them. Only buy Japanese made games or from smaller western teams that don't follow this path, before they get poisoned too. Get some older consoles and buy second hand physical games. Or emulate them. Start clearing your backlogs, most should already have enough games to last you for decades.

Just don't support this shit.
 
That was interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Of course anytime. That LTT video and the 'TikTok algorithm explained' video, along with other research I've done, has shown me both sides of when an algorithm works for mass audiences and when an algorithm works for individuals. Both times the algorithm filters down the choices until it thinks it's found an ultimate solution. That action in itself is the actual problem.

Most tech companies don't factor in the very obvious point that people don't want to see and do the same things over and over every single day, but instead we are conditioned to do those things, with repititious tasks like going to work, doing tasks for work, driving to and from work, grabbing coffee to get ready for work, etc. However, what we want and how we are conditioned are two vastly different things, but an algorithm doesn't see that. It's programmed to do it's job, which is collect as much data as possible and filter it down.

This tool could easily face that problem if handled in the wrong manner, and it would probably take someone who's not a programmer to point that out, because a lot of programmers have the similar thought process to the algorithms they've created, which is to keep filtering out issues and code until you find the ultimate solution.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I popped over to REEE to see their take on it, and they all hate it. Pretty hilarious to see. "Why not just hire diverse people." "Ranking people's culture and ethnicity with numbers reminds me phrenology."

The cognitive dissonance is hilarious because creating a quota algorithm is basically the literal manifestation of intersectionality theory. It's like they have literally never even thought through what it means to continually stack oppression ranks into a hierarchy. Now they see it stacked explicitly as a hierarchy and don't like it. They have literally no idea what they even ask for, and hate it as soon as they get it. Of course, no self-reflection occurs.
Bunch of overly emotional, angry and confused people. Blind leading the blind.
 

DaGwaphics

Gold Member
Man, everyone is having a go at this online. A rare situation where embarrassingly racist people (I've got some family in this segment and know from experience) and the I'm sooooo not racist I'm almost racist crowd can find some common ground. :messenger_grinning_squinting:

Time will tell if this is really anything at all.
 

Fuz

Gold Member
because a lot of programmers have the similar thought process to the algorithms they've created, which is to keep filtering out issues and code until you find the ultimate solution.
Exactly. This is a core problem of programming and UI designing.
 
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KXVXII9X

Member
I'm all for diversity and inclusivity and will scream it to the heavens, but these kinds of diversity and inclusivity pushes by some companies are so shallow and insulting. Just makes a solid game with people who feel three dimensional instead of making it so obvious you are trying to shoehorn a diversity quota. Don't make it half assed either. Sims 4 somewhat recently added more realistic skin tones for people of color since there was such a pushback for unrealistic tones. Just adding in a person of color isn't enough. A game like Overwatch is already diverse and inclusive.

Before they pat themselves on the back, it would be better to change the landscape within the companies themselves. It just seems very hypocritical and a way to save face with all those sexual misconduct within their own company.

There are far too many things to change in the industry atm. A cynical part of me thinks this is their way at selling and pushing more cosmetics.

I will leave with this: If you have to use an algorithm to tell if your game is inclusive enough, maybe you are making a game less about passion and more on the quantitative approach to making a game successful rather than making sure the parts you do have are up to quality standards. It is easy to pigeonhole yourself in these kinds of details.
 

DaGwaphics

Gold Member
Yo people, this has been done before!


Come on, let's all post our scores! I'll start, I'm just an 18!

I got 28. It's nice to know that I can boost my score by getting more involved in Islam or Judaism. Or by giving everything I've got to charity, which is funny since I already slid the bar in favor of being poor. I feel like that deserved more points.
 
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Reactions: Fuz

KXVXII9X

Member
The moment this shit becomes prevalent in Japanese games is the moment I drop the hobby entirely.
I think some Japanese games could use a tiny bit of this if they are making their game appeal to western audiences. Like there should be at least ONE short curly haired option for an RPG like Elden Ring. That isn't being PC or "woke" it is just odd. Now if they were specifically marketing their game in their own country or having it in a clear Japanese setting, I wouldn't mind at all. It is more of a case-by-case basis.
 
The moment this shit becomes prevalent in Japanese games is the moment I drop the hobby entirely.
They already have a few games with the Body Type A/B bullshit, like Elden Ring or Monster Hunter Rise.

If I'm not able to make a big titty mommy pawn in Dragon's Dogma 2, I'll be pissed.
 
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ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
I assume you're not as stupid to infer that my point meant the tool was aware itself and creating these things itself. I have to specify that because I've read your other posts. If you are then our conversation is over.

I love how some of you consistently fall back on the "You shouldn't have taken my words literally. . ." schtick. What is even more impressive - as evidenced by your proceeding rant - is that you've read that article and didn't bother understanding it (or the editorial update). None of the wackado scenarios or anti-woke handwringing you've come up with exist in any realistic form based on the (limited) amount of information we have on this DE&I tool.

Is your position that this tool will not/is not meant to influence character creation/revision based on its outputs?

Of course it is because why have it otherwise? It serves the same purposes as a "readability check" does on a white paper or other technical document. What it doesn't do is this wildly disingenous bit (which not for nothing is exactly what you said you weren't suggesting the tool would do):

It's basically saying 'Whoa there boi, that's not how you create a diverse character, look at this radar chart and the score, and we'll show you how to get a better score and therefore make the character more diverse.
 

KXVXII9X

Member
I’m reading these comments thinking Russia just dropped a nuke. All this over a diversity program? Am I missing something to cause all the outrage?
While I'm also thinking this is a bit virtual signally for my taste, I noticed NeoGAF leans a certain way politically and certain issues are handled without nuance. Like I would hope most people would favor inclusivity and diversity (I remember a thread of people outraged that there weren't enough beautiful women that were design specifically for their taste) I've noticed people want some form of inclusivity whether they realize it or not. We wouldn't have this entire forum of people constantly validating/invalidating each other.
 

tygertrip

Member
Imagine caring more about this bullshit than making a good game. Knowing good and well that 99% of the people that yammer for "diversity" I'm their games have never bought or not bought a game because of it.
 
Yo people, this has been done before!


Come on, let's all post our scores! I'll start, I'm just an 18!
I scored an 8, which is more privileged than 94% of others. It's telling me to give to the less fortunate. Which I suppose since it tells everyone to give to the less fortunate would eventually funnel all the world's resources to only those at the max score. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
If they make a good game does any of this even matter though?
I guess not.

But, if this kind of shit is being pushed forward, being invested on, and part of the game design... then I doubt they'll be making any good game, tbh.
Like imagine if they put money or resources on this instead of on polishing game mechanics. The horror!
 
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nkarafo

Member
You can easily solve with a character who is: Hispanic/Mongolian, Intersexual, disabled, mentally ill, handicapped, nowax, unemployed. Or just copy Nephente. 100% diverse, 100% win, 0% effort.
Apparently, you also need to hire someone to do that.

Imagine having someone for 8 hours/day, 5 days/week just to tell you "not inclusive enough, maybe add an Asian woman or something" a few times. And then pay him the same amount you do for a programmer who is actually working all these hours.
 

tygertrip

Member
I popped over to REEE to see their take on it, and they all hate it. Pretty hilarious to see. "Why not just hire diverse people." "Ranking people's culture and ethnicity with numbers reminds me phrenology."

The cognitive dissonance is hilarious because creating a quota algorithm is basically the literal manifestation of intersectionality theory. It's like they have literally never even thought through what it means to continually stack oppression ranks into a hierarchy. Now they see it stacked explicitly as a hierarchy and don't like it. They have literally no idea what they even ask for, and hate it as soon as they get it. Of course, no self-reflection occurs.
Of course they have no self-reflection. They have no beliefs and/or opinions except what Hollywood has told them is "correct".
 

shoegaze

Member
ITT: bunch of people unironically taking this joke post at face value, instead of seeing it as OP's ploy to wind us up.

Good job OP almost got me as well.
 
Your response is literally a push back against the dismissal of the absurd suggestion that this SPECIFIC instance of a diversity initiative is part of some larger goal to destroy "the West." There isn't any nuance to discover in that; the crazy is on full display.
The communists that want to see the west fall primarily, but not exclusively, targeted education and our corporate institutions, esp. technology.

Plus there's our home grown politicians and bankers that want to see our freedoms gone and what better way to do that than to chip away at family values and Christianity.

Then as this freshly warped generation goes into the workforce they begin to implement initiatives like this, as a by product of their brain washing.

Your intellectually dishonest, snarky "Russia is using Activision blizzard to destroy the west lolol" is a pathetic straw man.
 
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tygertrip

Member
Man, everyone is having a go at this online. A rare situation where embarrassingly racist people (I've got some family in this segment and know from experience) and the I'm sooooo not racist I'm almost racist crowd can find some common ground. :messenger_grinning_squinting:

Time will tell if this is really anything at all.
No "almost" about it. The lemming libs are flat-out racist.
 

tygertrip

Member
The communists that want to see the west fall primarily, but not exclusively, targeted education and our corporate institutions, esp. technology.

Plus there's our home grown politicians and bankers that want to see our freedoms gone and what better way to do that than to chip away at family values and Christianity.

Then as this freshly warped generation goes into the workforce they begin to implement initiatives like this, as a by product of their brain washing.

Your intellectually dishonest, snarky "Russia is using Activision blizzard to destroy the west lolol" is a pathetic straw man.
I'm not even a Christian, and I agree with you.
 
The communists that want to see the west fall primarily, but not exclusively, targeted education and our corporate institutions, esp. technology.

Plus there's our home grown politicians and bankers that want to see our freedoms gone and what better way to do that than to chip away at family values and Christianity.

Then as this freshly warped generation goes into the workforce they begin to implement initiatives like this, as a by product of their brain washing.

Your intellectually dishonest, snarky "Russia is using Activision blizzard to destroy the west lolol" is a pathetic straw man.


Like I’ve said before this is just a repackaging of old right wing talking points.

The idea that bankers and politicians are against family values (whatever that is I don’t know tbh) with no apparent reason does smell of tinfoil.

The idea of a vast showdown cabal is a prominent one especially in certain parts of the 1900s.

Like people have before cooperations care about their bottom dollar.
That is it.
I mean people like you who think that communists and bankers are in any way shape or form working towards the same goals must gone down some deeeep rabbit hole.
 
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Of course anytime. That LTT video and the 'TikTok algorithm explained' video, along with other research I've done, has shown me both sides of when an algorithm works for mass audiences and when an algorithm works for individuals. Both times the algorithm filters down the choices until it thinks it's found an ultimate solution. That action in itself is the actual problem.

Most tech companies don't factor in the very obvious point that people don't want to see and do the same things over and over every single day, but instead we are conditioned to do those things, with repititious tasks like going to work, doing tasks for work, driving to and from work, grabbing coffee to get ready for work, etc. However, what we want and how we are conditioned are two vastly different things, but an algorithm doesn't see that. It's programmed to do it's job, which is collect as much data as possible and filter it down.

This tool could easily face that problem if handled in the wrong manner, and it would probably take someone who's not a programmer to point that out, because a lot of programmers have the similar thought process to the algorithms they've created, which is to keep filtering out issues and code until you find the ultimate solution.
Do you have an example of what you mean? Because I read this to mean the algos would only assign you a single interest, and then feed you that content over and over.

Why couldn't it work like this: When creating interest profiles for people, the algo identifies at least TWO "genres" (instead of a singular one) that you are shown to be interested in. Let's say Genre #1 is cat videos and Genre #2 is hardcore (we're talking NASTY) videos of people politely sitting in a circle and doing needlework. Now, let's say there's another person the algo identifies liking cat videos, but their Genre #2 is something else, say, Kit Kat candy unboxing videos. Then, you cross-reference those two people, and "seed" a few videos of the different genres to each other. It's likely that some will be interested in the other, and I'd bet the data would prove that out. Now, extrapolate that to thousands or millions of people and find the cross-genres that are most cross-enjoyed and feed those to the people most likely to enjoy it--even if they had no idea they would. You'd be hard-pressed to run out of different genres to seed to everyone--there's nearly endless content.

Or, actually, you did say "Most tech companies" and not all. My bad. I just noticed that after writing all this LOL
 
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Like I’ve said before this is just a repackaging of old right wing talking points.

The idea that bankers and politicians are against family values (whatever that is I don’t know tbh) with no apparent reason does smell of tinfoil.

The idea of a vast showdown cabal is a prominent one especially in certain parts of the 1900s.

Like people have before cooperations care about their bottom dollar.
That is it.
I mean people like you who think that communists and bankers are in any way shape or form working towards the same goals must gone down some deeeep rabbit hole.
+10 social credit.
 

ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
Your intellectually dishonest, snarky "Russia is using Activision blizzard to destroy the west lolol" is a pathetic straw man.

First, go kick rocks. Second, if the original poster meant to suggest that this is the downstream affect of some decades long gestating culture campaign, they should have said that; it would have still been a stupid, largely ambiguous bit of tin-foil rambling, but at least it would have been clearer and not gotten the well deserved derision it did.
 
First, go kick rocks. Second, if the original poster meant to suggest that this is the downstream affect of some decades long gestating culture campaign, they should have said that; it would have still been a stupid, largely ambiguous bit of tin-foil rambling, but at least it would have been clearer and not gotten the well deserved derision it did.
Derision from a self loathing anti intellectual such as yourself means I'm on the right track.
 

Zeroing

Gold Member
Well, you kind of have to, they tend to export their insanity to other places. Canada is their first importer of ideas, Western Europe next and even Mexico is starting to have "gender neutral" crazies now.
Nah we are in a middle of a war, people are too invested in real problems.
 
What the hell kind of world are we living nowadays? I'm getting way too old for this.

I imagine even the younglings are getting fed up with this crap too though.
 
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