Everything is real in this show. Everything should be taken literally. Everything.
It's the only way to be sure.
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Doctor Who: Time Of The Doctor |OT| 11's hour is over now... The clock is striking 12
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Everything is real in this show. Everything should be taken literally. Everything.
It's the only way to be sure.
Yes, this. I've always watched Who with subtitles, but I wasn't able to watch this episode with them. Took me 3 rewinds to catch
'Love from Gallifrey' during the big explode-y regen
Jest Chillin
Member
Having a problem with it is fine but immediately chalking it up to "Moffat ugh!" is over the top imo. I think something to keep in mind is that just because it changes the events in The Name of the Doctor doesn't mean it wasn't planned. If anything, this is actually not what people call "typical Moffat" since it's not a trick. It's not a situation where something happened that you didn't see. It was a legitimate changing of history, which should be expected in a show that features time travel so heavily. That's why I don't consider it a cop out. I mean standard rules of time travel typically mean that you can either change something or you can't. In Who, it seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong) that anything that isn't time locked can be changed and there's nothing that's been said that I've seen that would lead one to believe that Trenzalore was time locked.
I think it was more that the Doctor was seeing her as a hallucination right before regenerating fully. Sadness
Jest Chillin
Member
Well it was the combo of The Doctor and The Church. Anytime any technology was detected, The Church would destroy them. Anytime they circumvented The Church's sensors, The Doctor would take care of it. This lasted up until the Dalek's attacked The Church, killing most of them and taking over the ship. From that point on it was only The Doctor and the few Silents that were left, which is why it was only after the Daleks took over that the town suffered any real damage and the townspeople began to fight as well.
I wasn't chalking anything up to anything. I was disappointed with Moffat, "ugh" being a form typically used to express disappointment, thus creating the statement "Ugh Moffat :/". The smiley was added for good measure. It's just that the graveyard was so integral to Clara saving the Doctor in all of time and space to begin with that I didn't think he would simply rewrite it out. After all the effort he put into making sure every thread fit together throughout the show with everything being put together like a puzzle, it's frustrating to me to have him have this last puzzle piece not quite fit, so he uses scissors to cut it up and make it fit anyway.
Jest Chillin
Member
It's not really written out though since they traveled there and experienced it. It's not as if Clara and 11 never went there and experienced it. They did. It's just that Trenzalore doesn't end quite that way now. Since time is not circular and unable to be changed in Who.. there's no paradox problem.
I get that the piece still fits into the puzzle, I just don't like how they did it because Moffat made everything else fit together so perfectly that rewriting Trenzalore almost seems lazy in comparison.
Anywho, anyone else thought that when Matt's Doctor was walking up the steps to meet Clara, he had already regenerated and was only using the holographic clothing to ease Clara into his new form?
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
That was all done as part of a single story, and it was then done like that at the end. That's a completely different thing than setting things up in previous stories and then going back and saying that those previous episodes never even happened because of a magic reset button.
The Last of the Time Lords ending certainly has its flaws, but at least it didn't go and say that previous episodes never happened.
I don't particularly care about this too much since I thought The Name of the Doctor was garbage to begin with, but I think it just speaks poorly to the creative output of the show to be having all these big arcs and reveals, and then have the conclusion be 'everything you saw never actually happened now because time can be written like that'.
That's exactly what I thought was happening.
AlphaDragoon
Member
Oh man. Oh man.
That last part with Amy, and seeing Clara's face and reaction to what was about to happen...right in the feels.
That last part with Amy, and seeing Clara's face and reaction to what was about to happen...right in the feels.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I would have preferred that. Or have the goodbye scene before he goes up to face the Daleks. Smith regenerating while shouting to the heavens would have been appropriate.
Yep. It would be classic Moffat. Hell, I thought they would pull that trick once they introduced the concept.
On an unrelated note, is the church (pre-silence) a new invention? Mother Superious seems to be a lot of nods and references that I'm not connecting, but I'm not an classic Who buff. I don't know if this will make any sense. Conversation involving her does not seem like it is seeding mysteries for future episodes, but seems to be referencing history.
Edit: Well, trying to further describe what I'm talking about and just realized I might have just missed something that might be obvious:
That scene where he talked about Mother Superious fighting the psychopath inside all her life or something like that. He referenced River Song as a psychopath earlier.
BrokenFiction
Member
WRT the sound mixing, it's horrible for me too - I've got DirecTV. But a work around that I have is that there's a DTV app for your PC (DIRECTV2PC) which allows you to stream video off the DVR to your PC. The sound quality is for some reason fantastic when I do this, so the next day I watch with headphones and I'm able to pick up everything I've missed.
Link
The Autumn Wind
I won't lie, I straight up lost it at that point.
Saw this and my heart stopped. This is where the actual tears fell after threatening for the last five minutes.
Just rewatched Capaldi's short sequence again and I love it so much now.
Good to know I wasn't alone lol and every woman the Doctor meets is a bit of a psychopath.
No way she is a regeneration of River Song. Moffat is just in love with the idea that the Doctor has many friends and lovers that we've never met before.
Good to know I wasn't alone lol and every woman the Doctor meets is a bit of a psychopath.
No way she is a regeneration of River Song. Moffat is just in love with the idea that the Doctor has many friends and lovers that we've never met before.
The whole last 15 minutes of this ep are so great. Can't believe they used Four Knocks again, as if that piece hadn't wrecked me enough back with Tennant in End of Time, they just had to use it for Matt too :lol
The church was with the Doctor and River in the angels two-parter back in S5.
;_;
The church was with the Doctor and River in the angels two-parter back in S5.
Tortfeasor
Member
Scanned through the last four pages and didn't see any discussion about Tasha Lem. Any idea who she was? She flew the Tardis, had a long standing intimate relationship with the doctor, and was willing to sacrifice herself for him.
I think it's pretty obvious that she is a regeneration of River Song. Not sure where in her timeline though.
What do you all think?
I think it's pretty obvious that she is a regeneration of River Song. Not sure where in her timeline though.
What do you all think?
Jest Chillin
Member
I can see where that idea could crop up. Very few people can fly the Tardis. The intimacy could go either way. But she doesn't use River's vocabulary (Sweetie, Spoilers, etc..) and there wouldn't be a place in her timeline that the history would fit. Any never before seen regenerations should be before Let's Kill Hitler, since we're led to believe that's the first time that River meets The Doctor and in that ep she regens to the form we've seen up until her death. If it's true that that is the first time River meets The Doctor, then Mother Superious could only be River IF River was somehow regenerated after her death in the library. .
Seems more likely that she's just someone The Doctor met during some gap in his previous history that we haven't seen, sort of like Queen Elizabeth I before Day of the Doctor.
Well... I guess that was okay. I liked some of what they were aiming for. Though they probably didn't need to go full on "hey look at all these different enemies"... and now that I think about it, did the "truth field" thing do anything outside of the initial scene and I guess the one with the wooden Cyberman? Feels like an odd thing to set up and then hardly use. So yeah, regeneration attack was silly/stupid, but the "actual" regeneration was fine. Though I agree with what was said earlier that I totally thought it was going to be the holograms, which would've slotted in well and I feel it would have flowed better.
equippedwithtowel
Member
True, but that has very little to do with what came later.
Discotheque
Banned
Old Matt smith was pretty funny.
"I don't really have a plan, they love it when I say that"
And his line about the daleks as to how he'd die of boredom before they shoot him was pretty damn great as well. Loved how he accepted it all, much better regen than tennants clingy departure imo
"I don't really have a plan, they love it when I say that"
And his line about the daleks as to how he'd die of boredom before they shoot him was pretty damn great as well. Loved how he accepted it all, much better regen than tennants clingy departure imo
Would give new meaning to Mainframe. Then, again, she did say it's her first time seeing this form.
Builds cabinets.
Nah, it does a variety of things. It's like a technological swiss army knife. It does have its restrictions though, the most notable being not functional against wood and other simple structures.
Right now, I'm still crying. I missed the 9 PM EST showing so I saw the rerun at 12... God, I miss you already, Matt!
I do like Capaldi's entrance and his first words were, "Kidneys! I have new kidneys! I don't like the colour." I'm like, "This is going to be good!"
Then he asked Clara "Do you know how to fly this thing?" and I went, "Oh no, First Doctor all over again..." in a good way, mind you.
I never liked Tennant's departure and I was glad Matt's attitude was like "I may hate endings, but I'm still the Doctor and things do change in the end" sort. I loved it... especially when dropped the bowtie.
I do like Capaldi's entrance and his first words were, "Kidneys! I have new kidneys! I don't like the colour." I'm like, "This is going to be good!"
Then he asked Clara "Do you know how to fly this thing?" and I went, "Oh no, First Doctor all over again..." in a good way, mind you.
I never liked Tennant's departure and I was glad Matt's attitude was like "I may hate endings, but I'm still the Doctor and things do change in the end" sort. I loved it... especially when dropped the bowtie.
Discotheque
Banned
That bow tie scene was great. It was like the last thing he was holding onto
You need Rings of Akhaten, and you need Journey to the Center of the Tardis.
User 100115
Banned
I am still not ready, even though I watched it.
Capaldi, win my heart over like Smith did. DO IT NOW.
I am still not ready, even though I watched it.
Capaldi, win my heart over like Smith did. DO IT NOW.
I agree with everything you have here.
For some reason, it's only now just hit me that there will be no more Matt Smith episodes. Like, before I was sad for what the Doctor was going through and what we'd been through, but not I'm sad in that Matt Smith the actor will no longer grace our television and computer screens with new episodes. We really will miss you Matt.
I was a bit annoyed that they rushed ahead to address the regeneration limit. It's as if Moffat thought his solution was so brilliant, and he didn't trust some future showrunner to address it as good as he could.
I guess that means that the Doctor's regeneration in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End actually counted?
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-12-25/doctor-who-is-matt-smith-the-11th-12th-or-13th-doctor
"The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology – science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them," Moffat told RadioTimes.com recently.
Ugggh. At the same time I guess it's kind of nice to see Moffat's run on the show melding with RTD's (Rose in the 50th Special, inclusion of Gallifrey and other Time Lords, and now a reference to the 4th season regeneration). For a while it seemed like Moffat was previously averse to touching anything that RTD was responsible for.
I guess that means that the Doctor's regeneration in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End actually counted?
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-12-25/doctor-who-is-matt-smith-the-11th-12th-or-13th-doctor
"The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology – science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them," Moffat told RadioTimes.com recently.
Ugggh. At the same time I guess it's kind of nice to see Moffat's run on the show melding with RTD's (Rose in the 50th Special, inclusion of Gallifrey and other Time Lords, and now a reference to the 4th season regeneration). For a while it seemed like Moffat was previously averse to touching anything that RTD was responsible for.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Karen had a bad wig.
Is it weird that {not unusually] I agree with much of this. The story is way up its own ass, felt like there were a lot of cheats - Clara whispering through the crack, the regeneration energy. It was like a stupidly simple way of clearing out almost all of Moffat's hanging threads, in typical Moffat post-season 5 style. And yet, I still rather enjoyed it. Capaldi's quick scene was great.
The only two things I really actively disliked were the 'explanation' of his name, and the Time Lords apparently firing a regen at him as a means to explain how they're going to get around Matt being in-story the 13th. I know we're never getting his name. Maybe like, the final episode when the BBC is killed off by an insane Conservative government in the future, but until then, we'll get whatever fits (nothing, 'John Smith', etc), but "He's the Doctor, that's all you need to know" did not fit the grandiosity and importance of the scene/the storyline. As for how they're redoing the 12 regenerations problems. Capaldi is not only 12 he's also 14 and 1 all at the same time, with only a brief explanation for 'how' it's going to work eg we kicked the can down the road - good luck to whoever has to do this all over again in 20 years
Capaldi's one question, oh man do I hope that a)Moffat isn't the writer for that arc because it'll probably follow up like his River and Death/Name arcs (ie shit) b)It actually goes somewhere interesting (and they don't both die in the crash)
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Im gonna chalk that up to crappy British tv effects or hair dye.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
So happy there was a hint of "The Long Song" from Rings of Akhaten just before his regeneration, not sure why a lot of people hated that episode, the song was glorious and the Doctors speech was powerful.
I'm glad they didn't do a protracted out regeneration sequence, I know it started early but Tens regeneration killed me but this one was regene- BOOM new Doctor, no time to mourn.
Really excited to see what Capaldi brings now.
I'm glad they didn't do a protracted out regeneration sequence, I know it started early but Tens regeneration killed me but this one was regene- BOOM new Doctor, no time to mourn.
Really excited to see what Capaldi brings now.
Choppasmith
Member
Bwahaha ! Glad I'm not the only one who jokes about Xenoblade. In fact, during this episode hearing Clara keep mentioning "change the future" or some variance of that actually made me chuckle.
Anyway, this was my first regeneration I've actually been a part of watching. It was a nice sendoff. Both the Doctor and you can really see Matt's feelings come through with some of the lines.
Like others have said, with this and DOTD, hoping the next Season just starts completely fresh.
So I just re-watched Amy and Rory's departure and it made me realize something. Amy's last line in Time of the Doctor and Angels Take Manhattan are nearly the same. The only difference is that she says "goodbye" instead of "goodnight" in Angels. All of these little things is making me sad.
Honestly, I wasn't a fan of Smith's era, Tennant will always be my favorite Doctor. I'm not sure if it's Smith himself or if it was Moffat, but these seasons just didn't stick like Tennant's. Having said that, this special is really making me miss Smith even though the thing just aired. I'm going to miss his quirkiness.
Rewatching Angels made me realize that I like Rory and Amy more than I like Clara too. Initially, I didn't like Amy but after all of this, I guess I've warmed up to her? I'm not sure, but Clara just seems bland to me. I was also surprised to see that Clara has only been around for Part 2 of Series 7 and not the series in its entirety. This has been a very long year.
Honestly, I wasn't a fan of Smith's era, Tennant will always be my favorite Doctor. I'm not sure if it's Smith himself or if it was Moffat, but these seasons just didn't stick like Tennant's. Having said that, this special is really making me miss Smith even though the thing just aired. I'm going to miss his quirkiness.
Rewatching Angels made me realize that I like Rory and Amy more than I like Clara too. Initially, I didn't like Amy but after all of this, I guess I've warmed up to her? I'm not sure, but Clara just seems bland to me. I was also surprised to see that Clara has only been around for Part 2 of Series 7 and not the series in its entirety. This has been a very long year.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Poor Stiles =/
User 100115
Banned
Okay, SO!
The Priestess chick confused the hell out of me.
They kept tossing all these hints that she was River. :/ Which again, shouldn't make sense because of the whole 'no more regenerations, died in the Library' thing. But her grave was on Trenzalore. And the psychopath line, flying the doctor and the Tardis, blah blah.
Maybe I am just stricken dumb by grief, but seriously, why would they do that? Argh.
The Priestess chick confused the hell out of me.
They kept tossing all these hints that she was River. :/ Which again, shouldn't make sense because of the whole 'no more regenerations, died in the Library' thing. But her grave was on Trenzalore. And the psychopath line, flying the doctor and the Tardis, blah blah.
Maybe I am just stricken dumb by grief, but seriously, why would they do that? Argh.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
He has the best expressions.
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