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[darkziosj]

Listen, I'm playing the game right now.
There is NO f2p elements. Let's take all the elements to explain to you what it is about:
Bravely Second is a new inclusion in the combat system, it's like a Joker. That Joker is totally optional and useless for the battles. It's pointless, and adds nothing to the battle system. It's just a temporary BONUS. It allows you to stop time for a moment to deal damage.


Now, if you're interested in that pointless, rushed bonus, you have two ways to use it:
Put your 3DS in sleep mode: Every 8 hours, you get 1SP so you can use it once.
Or, buy a SP drink to get 3SP.

The game won't bother you with this, it'll just tell you ONCE that you can use Bravely Second, and tell you can buy SP drinks if you want them fast. That's it and you'll never heard about this ever in the game. Not. a. single. word. Heck, Bravely Second isn't even displayed in the combat system. The game doesn't even told me how to activate it. I had to check all the buttons.

It's not about defending it, it's about stating facts. That's just NOT an excuse to skip this game, for a totally INVISIBLE feature likely made for really casuals people. And the game NEVER bother you with this. That's just a small feature which FIRST requires you to put your 3DS in sleep mode OR to buy points.

Now, if people want to boycott it for pseudo reasons, then do it. The only thing you'll succeed in doing is to show that West doesn't care about J-RPG. You want to show that you don't like microtransactions in your game ? Buy the game, don't use the microtransactions.

Seriously is not as bad as everyone it's making it look.

 

[kiunchbb]

I have another idea, if someone like the story enough to pay their way for easy win, why not just watch the whole thing on youtube. Like Disgaea, I am sure someone going to upload the entire story scene. Plus you won't be supporting SE shitty microtransaction, and still got to fully enjoy the game.

 

[GhostTrick]

Seriously is not as bad as everyone it's making it look.

It's not at all. I wish my english was a bit better to explain it in details. Because really, it's pointless. People are making mountains on something inexistant.

 

[ABC]

If sales of a game aren't significantly decreased by adding microtransactions, then there's no reason to not include them.

That doesn't make sense. How is that supposed to work? The Microtransactions come with the game, there are no sales where the decrease could come from.

As mentioned before, the only way of sending a clear anti-Microtransaction signal while on the same time sending the signal that you want high quality games is to buy the game and ignore the Microtransactions.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Seriously is not as bad as everyone it's making it look.

If the best thing you can say about it is that it's 'Not that bad', is it still worth defending?

 

[BudokaiMR2]

It's not at all. I wish my english was a bit better to explain it in details. Because really, it's pointless. People are making mountains on something inexistant.

You do understand this is one of the reasons some of us are annoyed by it, right?

I would rather S-E not shoot itself in the foot for something that is in the end a completely pointless feature.

It adds nothing to the game and instead just creates a bad impression at a time when they don't really have the best reputation anyway.

 

[marrec]

It's not at all. I wish my english was a bit better to explain it in details. Because really, it's pointless. People are making mountains on something inexistant.

I honestly don't care how seamlessly it's implemented. The monetization scheme is one I won't support. I'm sure you're having fun with the game though and I hope you continue too.

 

[Gunstarheroes]

It really blows my mind how angry people get over micro-transactions that don't affect gameplay, and are just for lazy people, for better or worse.

I get the idea, and i do get why people see it as bad, but i seriously don't see the effect here. I don't think if people keep using micro-transactions, that the problem will get worse. More games might do it, but again, all it does is make the game easier/unlock stuff quicker, for people who have money to blow/are too lazy to grind. That's just my 2 cents though.

 

[GhostTrick]

You do understand this is one of the reasons some of us are annoyed by it, right?

I would rather S-E not shoot itself in the foot for something that is in the end a completely pointless feature.

It adds nothing to the game and instead just creates a bad impression at a time when they don't really have the best reputation anyway.

It adds nothing to the game, but it doesn't take away things either. I totally agree with you, I rather see this thing not being in the game at all. But I also disagree with people overreacting against this. Just ignore it because of how pointless and hidden it is.

I honestly don't care how seamlessly it's implemented. The monetization scheme is one I won't support. I'm sure you're having fun with the game though and I hope you continue too.

And what do you call monetization scheme ? You never buy any game if it has DLC ?

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I understand people that won't buy the game because of the microtransactions, but I won't be one of them, the game is even easier than the one that came before and it didn't even have the SP system.

Then again, SE won't see a dime from me when it comes to that crap.

 

[TDLink]

My thoughts on this are...since it is completely optional then what does it matter? I'm not defending it, it's a shitty practice, but you can play the whole game without utilizing the microtransactions. I'm not going to let those shit practices that are optional keep me from playing a game that looks really good.

Namco has been doing this shit in the Tales games for a while. Hasn't stopped me there either. If you don't want to support the practice, just don't buy the microtransactions. It's dumb if you let it stop you from enjoying an otherwise great game though.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

My thoughts on this are...since it is completely optional then what does it matter? I'm not defending it, it's a shitty practice, but you can play the whole game without utilizing the microtransactions. I'm not going to let those shit practices that are optional keep me from playing a game that looks really good.

Namco has been doing this shit in the Tales games for a while. Hasn't stopped me there either. If you don't want to support the practice, just don't buy the microtransactions. It's dumb if you let it stop you from enjoying an otherwise great game though.

Oh right, Tales has done it for a while and I hadn't even thought about it.

 

[marrec]

And what do you call monetization scheme ? You never buy any game if it has DLC ?

We aren't talking about DLC.

 

[Alcotholic]

Nintendo shouldn't allow something like this.

 

[GhostTrick]

We aren't talking about DLC.

But DLC are a form of monetization. In fact, DLC are worse than what we're talking about. We're basically talking about a bonus to help you win, you can get for free. But if you don't want to wait, you have the possibility to pay. Yeah, in fact, people are just overreacting about something they just don't know about and likely never cared about.

 

[PedroLumpy]

It really blows my mind how angry people get over micro-transactions that don't affect gameplay, and are just for lazy people, for better or worse.

I get the idea, and i do get why people see it as bad, but i seriously don't see the effect here. I don't think if people keep using micro-transactions, that the problem will get worse. More games might do it, but again, all it does is make the game easier/unlock stuff quicker, for people who have money to blow/are too lazy to grind. That's just my 2 cents though.

Game X has a grind that is too severe. Developer/Publisher responds by:

1. Reducing grind or
2. Adding micro-transactions

When these sort of micro-transactions are added, there's kind of an elephant in the room. You gotta ask, why didn't the Developer/Publisher just reduce the grind?

 

[Kintaro]

Nintendo shouldn't allow something like this.

Something that only affects you if you choose to pay for it? Yeah okay. We're having a tough enough time getting SE RPGs on 3DS getting over here and you want Nintendo to not allow this and not bring it over?

Violence will occur. >=(

 

[TDLink]

Game X has a grind that is too severe. Developer/Publisher responds by:

1. Reducing grind or
2. Adding micro-transactions

When these sort of micro-transactions are added, there's kind of an elephant in the room. You gotta ask, why didn't the Developer/Publisher just reduce the grind?

Some people like the grind? I mean, it's a pretty big part of RPGs in general. By making a bunch of the previously mandatory filler now optional sidequests the grind obviously isn't that bad either if you can finish it in 30 hours.

 

[marrec]

But DLC are a form of monetization. In fact, DLC are worse than what we're talking about. We're basically talking about a bonus to help you win, you can get for free. But if you don't want to wait, you have the possibility to pay. Yeah, in fact, people are just overreacting about something they just don't know about and likely never cared about.

Selling a game for $60 is also a form of monetization. We aren't talking about all ways that Pubs make money, just this specific way.

And DLC is worse in your opinion. That's fine, I won't try to change your opinion. But this type of scheme is insidious and will change basic design concepts at fundamental levels if it becomes a de facto part of gaming.

Something that only affects you if you choose to pay for it? Yeah okay. We're having a tough enough time getting SE RPGs on 3DS getting over here and you want Nintendo to not allow this and not bring it over?

Violence will occur. >=(

I'd rather Square Enix shut down than buy this specific game.

 

[Zeroth]

It's not at all. I wish my english was a bit better to explain it in details. Because really, it's pointless. People are making mountains on something inexistant.

That doesn't make sense. How is that supposed to work? The Microtransactions come with the game, there are no sales where the decrease could come from.

As mentioned before, the only way of sending a clear anti-Microtransaction signal while on the same time sending the signal that you want high quality games is to buy the game and ignore the Microtransactions.

The inherent problem with the issue, and what I think most people are using as a justification, is the following:

If you purchase a game with microtransactions and doesn't buy any of them, you may send the message that you are okay with games with microtransactions, and publishers will see how they can make you more enticed to use them.

Now, some may argue that by not buying the game you will shown that the west doesn't care about RPGs, but let's stop for a moment and think. If the userbase complains about microtransactions and the publishers notice lower sales than expected, won't they associate that with the microtransactions themselves, and not the lack of interest for the genre? After all, they are localizing it, they are fully aware there's a sizable number of people willing to buy the game.

Additionally, that arguments faces some problems when you consider RPGs are not a dead genre in the West or even in handhelds (for example, Fire Emblem, or the numerous niche RPGs that are localized). It's clear there is a demand for the genre, and if BD doesn't sell well, it surely won't be because of that (specially after the fans asking for it).

The perceived problem is that the microtransaction logic will evolve from "You barely notice it!" to "They're optional!". I'm glad BD doesn't go for the later, but I can understand why some assume they might send the wrong message by buying the game.

 

[Jinko]

Yea I won't be using this, thanks but no thanks.

Some people like the grind? I mean, it's a pretty big part of RPGs in general. By making a bunch of the previously mandatory filler now optional sidequests the grind obviously isn't that bad either if you can finish it in 30 hours.

When they said that only 20% of the fans completed it, I assume that means most don't like grind and got bored with the tedium.

How about potions that increase the grind instead ?

 

[Kosma]

Some people like the grind? I mean, it's a pretty big part of RPGs in general. By making a bunch of the previously mandatory filler now optional sidequests the grind obviously isn't that bad either if you can finish it in 30 hours.

How about adding a difficulty level then? Or grind level?

You shouldnt have to pay extra for this stuff

 

[GhostTrick]

Selling a game for $60 is also a form of monetization. We aren't talking about all ways that Pubs make money, just this specific way.

And DLC is worse in your opinion. That's fine, I won't try to change your opinion. But this type of scheme is insidious and will change basic design concepts at fundamental levels if it becomes a de facto part of gaming.



I'd rather Square Enix shut down than buy this specific game.

"if" it becomes a de facto. But from now, it's far from being it. No, there's just no point here. People are just talking about something they don't know about. They just see the word "microtransactions" and imagine the worst thing possible. The game doesn't ask you to pay to level up. It doesn't ask you to pay to get weapons or costumes or jobs.
It doesn't even ask you to pay.

 

[Jinko]

"if" it becomes a de facto. But from now, it's far from being it. No, there's just no point here. People are just talking about something they don't know about. They just see the word "microtransactions" and imagine the worst thing possible. The game doesn't ask you to pay to level up. It doesn't ask you to pay to get weapons or costumes or jobs.
It doesn't even ask you to pay.

There is no good waiting until it becomes "a thing" because by then its too late.

I think its fair to consider the worst case scenario.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Some people like the grind? I mean, it's a pretty big part of RPGs in general. By making a bunch of the previously mandatory filler now optional sidequests the grind obviously isn't that bad either if you can finish it in 30 hours.

I'm not saying get rid of grinds, they have a purpose. However when a Dev/Publisher allows you to bypass them for monies, again that raises the question 'Why is this grind here in the first place?'

 

[marrec]

"if" it becomes a de facto. But from now, it's far from being it. No, there's just no point here. People are just talking about something they don't know about. They just see the word "microtransactions" and imagine the worst thing possible. The game doesn't ask you to pay to level up. It doesn't ask you to pay to get weapons or costumes or jobs.
It doesn't even ask you to pay.

If yes.

Which is why I'm not supporting it.

And I will ask the people who think my opinion matters to not support it either.

I'm not going to judge anyone who does though, that would be stupid. If you want to buy and enjoy this game then more power to you.

 

[TDLink]

Yea I won't be using this, thanks but no thanks.



When they said that only 20% of the fans completed it, I assume that means most don't like grind and got bored with the tedium.

How about potions that increase the grind instead ?

Yeah and that is why they reduced the mandatory completion time from 70 hours to 30 hours. As none of that content was cut, and only became optional, I view that as an extremely positive change. Most people don't have time to invest 70 hours into a RPG. 30 is much more attractive.

Grinding is part of what makes RPGs fun. Fighting enemies, leveling up, getting new skils. It gets old after 70 hours though...just like pretty much anything would. That is why 30 hours is a lot better.

How about adding a difficulty level then? Or grind level?

You shouldnt have to pay extra for this stuff

You still don't have to pay extra. All of this is completely optional.

 

[GhostTrick]

There is no good waiting until it becomes "a thing" because by then its too late.

Then vote with your wallet, but vote smart. Remember that Square Enix won't think Bravely Default will sell bad because of micro-transactions, but because it's:
On handheld.
It's a japanese RPG.

If you want to vote smart, just don't use microtransactions, that's how you show you want THIS game WITHOUT microtransactions.

If yes.

Which is why I'm not supporting it.

And I will ask the people who think my opinion matters to not support it either.

I'm not going to judge anyone who does though, that would be stupid. If you want to buy and enjoy this game then more power to you.

I don't think you ever intended to support it, really. And if you ever did, I simply think you're really overreacting and don't know what it is about. Because I don't think anyone who saw what it is about will claim it's an abuse or such.

 

[marrec]

Then vote with your wallet, but vote smart. Remember that Square Enix won't think Bravely Default will sell bad because of micro-transactions, but because it's:
On handheld.
It's a japanese RPG.

If you want to vote smart, just don't use microtransactions, that's how you show you want THIS game WITHOUT microtransactions.

Then Square Enix will stop publishing their shit over here. Which is fine by me. There are plenty of other publishers to fill the gaps.

 

[7Th]

What were these 40 hours then?

Grinding.

 

[Shengar]

Lets just hope nobody obtuse enough to buy the microtransaction and SE won't take it as "our microtransaction didn't sell, lets 'improve' it shall we?" as such will turned Bravely Default 2 into an horrible nightmare.

 

[TDLink]

I'm not saying get rid of grinds, they have a purpose. However when a Dev/Publisher allows you to bypass them for monies, again that raises the question 'Why is this grind here in the first place?'

Without a "grind" the core gameplay of a RPG is gone. At that point why even play the RPG? Just for the boss battles (which you could then steamroll)? Just for the typically sub-par story and character moments?

Not all genres are for everyone. RPGs are a grindy genre, on purpose. There's nothing wrong with that. I prefer it stay that way than see the genre dumbed down for people who just want to beat as many games as they can, as quickly as possible.

 

[7Th]

40 hours of combat animations? What?

Have you ever played Pokemon?

 

[ColonelColon]

That doesn't make sense. How is that supposed to work? The Microtransactions come with the game, there are no sales where the decrease could come from.

As mentioned before, the only way of sending a clear anti-Microtransaction signal while on the same time sending the signal that you want high quality games is to buy the game and ignore the Microtransactions.

If you buy the game and ignore the microtransactions, then they're still getting money for a game that includes microtransactions. They didn't lose any potential sales by including microtransactions. Then even if a small minority pay for microtransactions, they'll have gained by including them. The best thing to do is to convince publishers that adding microtransactions to their games will substantially shrink their userbase.

 

[ABC]

Now, some may argue that by not buying the game you will shown that the west doesn't care about RPGs, but let's stop for a moment and think. If the userbase complains about microtransactions and the publishers notice lower sales than expected, won't they associate that with the microtransactions themselves, and not the lack of interest for the genre?.

That is the important part. If the microtransactions in a game are really bad, than people might complain, and rightly so. But in this games case they are not, and the userbase will most likely not complain because objectively speaking there is nothing to complain about.

Unless they ask the people who didn't buy the game why, they are not going to find out about that tiny minority that didn't buy the game because of microtransactions and just assume it is the lack of interest.

 

[Aeana]

Grinding.

Not even remotely true. The moved a lot of mandatory content to be optional, and that is where most of the time went.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Without a "grind" the core gameplay of a RPG is gone. At that point why even play the RPG? Just for the boss battles (which you could then steamroll)? Just for the typically sub-par story and character moments?

Not all genres are for everyone. RPGs are a grindy genre, on purpose. There's nothing wrong with that. I prefer it stay that way than see the genre dumbed down for people who just want to beat as many games as they can, as quickly as possible.

Okay, again, I'm not suggesting they remove the grind completely. Grinds have a purpose. But if a Dev/Publisher allow you to bypass part of the grind for money, you should ask 'Why is the grind this severe in the first place?'

 

[GhostTrick]

Not even remotely true. The moved a lot of mandatory content to be optional, and that is where most of the time went.

And getting XP was made much easier, thx to Auto mode and encounter rate control.

 

[chickdigger802]

how does it present the iap?

Does it throw you 'hints and suggestions' when a boss is railing you? 'hey bro, help me out and ill help you out'.

 

[TDLink]

Okay, again, I'm not suggesting they remove the grind completely. Grinds have a purpose. But if a Dev/Publisher allow you to bypass part of the grind for money, you should ask 'Why is the grind this severe in the first place?'

Because some people dont like the grind and just like instant gratification. The Tales games have had this junk for years and those games are piss easy. Having these kinds of microtransactions doesn't mean the grind is hard, it just means some people are lazy and want to steamroll the game.

Plus by reducing the mandatory completion time to 30 hours they already have lessened the "grind" in this game.

 

[Aeana]

And getting XP was made much easier, thx to Auto mode and encounter rate control.

Getting experience wasn't that difficult in the original version, either, though. There are already skills in the game to manipulate experience gain (and money gain).

 

[Glass Rebel]

you guys are playing rpgs all wrong if you're grinding

 

[Jinko]

Then Square Enix will stop publishing their shit over here. Which is fine by me. There are plenty of other publishers to fill the gaps.

Not for old school final fantasy type games there aren't.

If you buy the game and ignore the microtransactions, then they're still getting money for a game that includes microtransactions. They didn't lose any potential sales by including microtransactions. Then even if a small minority pay for microtransactions, they'll have gained by including them. The best thing to do is to convince publishers that adding microtransactions to their games will substantially shrink their userbase.

I would very much doubt they would class the sales together, especially if they are trying to gauge if this is worth pursuing.

 

[Shane]

Just bought a 3DS (hello world of 3DS) and this has had my interest due to the buzz throughout this forum. But I don't buy games with microtransactions (excluding cosmetics which I stomach for something I want; but not in stuff I'm on the fence for). Bit of a shitter but the principle stands.

 

[GhostTrick]

how does it present the iap?

Does it throw you 'hints and suggestions' when a boss is railing you? 'hey bro, help me out and ill help you out'.

Nope, in fact, it's in the prologue/tutorial. A guy which you typically allow you to save into dungeons talked to me about stuff like saving and battle system, then tell you about Bravely Second using SP and that you gain SP with sleep mode.

 

[Aeana]

Just bought a 3DS (hello world of 3DS) and this has had my interest due to the buzz throughout this forum. But I don't buy games with microtransactions. Bit of a shitter but the principle stands.

No games with microtransactions? At all? Have you ever looked at the DLC lists for games on PS360? The Tales games all have DLC you can buy that boosts your level. I'm kinda wondering how this is any different. It's easy to ignore in all of those games, and it's easy to ignore in this as well.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Just bought a 3DS (hello world of 3DS) and this has had my interest due to the buzz throughout this forum. But I don't buy games with microtransactions (excluding cosmetics which I stomach for something I want; but not in stuff I'm on the fence for). Bit of a shitter but the principle stands.

I feel the same when it's content that's "optional" but you actually want, in this case it's just some item to make the game easier.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Because some people dont like the grind and just like instant gratification. The Tales games have had this junk for years and those games are piss easy. Having these kinds of microtransactions doesn't mean the grind is hard, it just means some people are lazy and want to steamroll the game.

Plus by reducing the mandatory completion time to 30 hours they already have lessened the "grind" in this game.

So what does that say about the Devs/Publishers purpose for having the grind be as severe as it is?

 

[Shengar]

Okay, again, I'm not suggesting they remove the grind completely. Grinds have a purpose. But if a Dev/Publisher allow you to bypass part of the grind for money, you should ask 'Why is the grind this severe in the first place?'

You really hit the spot the there.

Also I disagree that RPG is about grinding. Pointless, and over grinding to artificially lenghtened the game is just sign of a bad design. You can complete FEA without grinding and it still fun as hell.

 

[marrec]

Not for old school final fantasy type games there aren't.

This, by all accounts, is the first old school Final Fantasy type game that Square has brought over to the US in quite some time.

If this is how it's going to come over, then they can keep it. I guess I don't need it that badly.