That is a possibility but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a token effort to appease higher ups. I can imagine them trying to pressure Asano to take the series to mobile so they can monetise it. If it means the series stays focused on handhelds(it would be their only one) I can deal with it.
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Bravely Default for the Sequel Microtransactions; Completion time cut from 70h to 30h
- Thread starter Avallon
- Start date
That is a possibility but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a token effort to appease higher ups. I can imagine them trying to pressure Asano to take the series to mobile so they can monetise it. If it means the series stays focused on handhelds(it would be their only one) I can deal with it.
FrontalMonk
Banned
Honestly, the last time I clocked 70+ hours in a jRPG it was Xenogears. And I said, never again. For me, 20 hours is the sweet spot regardless of genre. 10 hours or less and it's too short. 30 hours or more and it's too damn long.
Come at me bro, fucking casual, etc.
Come at me bro, fucking casual, etc.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I agree. I don't have the energy or time to invest on a 70+ hour rpg. Especially since I'm a westerner and have a short attention span. That's why I marathon shows in a couple of days, I like to be caught up/finished asap
Mr.Monitor
Member
Now I'm considering not picking this up. If the gameplay is in any way hindered by the SP system, I'm not going to buy it. If I buy a game, I should get to decide when I play it and for how long, not some stupid meter. This sucks, because I was really looking forward to this.
Black Door
Banned
You weren't going to buy it in the first place.
Mr.Monitor
Member
What makes you say that?
I will rip my 3DS apart, remove the battery and reset it to factory settings each time, if that is required to play the real game
Lord Ghirahim
Member
　I bet that Agnes kimono will be one of those "free" DLC costumes ;//
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
The game is already kind of easy without the DLC.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Lategame you can.
Because you don't know what you're talking about. You're not forced to do anything, the SP system is for the people who want a faster/easier way, you can totally ignore it. This is like saying I'm not buying SMT4 because there's a DLC easy mode or FFVII because there's a character booster.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Man, I read the thread title and was ready to be pissed, but after getting the details, that's not so bad.
You should take a look, like, 3 posts above.
Cross posting from the other thread since it got locked before I could hit submit.
Personally, the SP drinks aren't enough to make me pass on BD as a whole, but it's enough to make me pause and consider the purchase rather than buy it blindly. Microtransactions in packaged retail products make me uncomfortable because they give the message that the developer thinks that paying full price for their game wasn't enough money. That's why I can't agree with the conclusion of the explanation in the interview: if they've added so many extra ways of letting people easilly beat the game (like difficulty and encounter rate modifiers as well as the Bravely Second in general), what's the point of adding the microtransaction on top of that other than getting more money?
Personally, the SP drinks aren't enough to make me pass on BD as a whole, but it's enough to make me pause and consider the purchase rather than buy it blindly. Microtransactions in packaged retail products make me uncomfortable because they give the message that the developer thinks that paying full price for their game wasn't enough money. That's why I can't agree with the conclusion of the explanation in the interview: if they've added so many extra ways of letting people easilly beat the game (like difficulty and encounter rate modifiers as well as the Bravely Second in general), what's the point of adding the microtransaction on top of that other than getting more money?
turnbuckle
Member
Well, since the other thread was closed when it was news to a few people (myself included since I missed this thread) I think this deserves a bump. Especially in light of many other full-priced games incorporating more f2p type elements. Granted, this isn't nearly as bad as some other examples out there it's still a troubling trend that's creeping into our hobby. I feel like this should be called out any time a game tacks this stuff on.
There's plenty of people defending this, or at least attacking other people for speaking out against these microtransactions. I don't understand the desire to tell other people how to spend their money or to call people liars for taking a principled stance against this but it's a bit bothersome. Oh well.
Gimme a break, guys. This is just sad. Calling people fools or saying people are being disingenuous about their original intent to buy the game just reeks of some weird desperation. Something something Stockholm Syndrome... Guess it's easier to get upset or call other gamers dishonest or dumb than to admit this is a shitty trend being put into otherwise great games. This doesn't have to be "Forza 5" to be upsetting.
I wouldn't use this option in the game, but it's a cynical and dishonest "feature" I won't support. I had absolutely every intention of picking this game up, but if it puts your mind at ease feel free to think I'm lying.
I'm not gonna deny myself from playing this game, but I'll only be picking it up used. I haven't bought a used game since like 2002, and even then that was just a bunch of old SNES RPGs including Earthbound with box/book. The game looks great but I have no desire to signal approval of including microtransactions with a retail purchase.
There's plenty of people defending this, or at least attacking other people for speaking out against these microtransactions. I don't understand the desire to tell other people how to spend their money or to call people liars for taking a principled stance against this but it's a bit bothersome. Oh well.
Gimme a break, guys. This is just sad. Calling people fools or saying people are being disingenuous about their original intent to buy the game just reeks of some weird desperation. Something something Stockholm Syndrome... Guess it's easier to get upset or call other gamers dishonest or dumb than to admit this is a shitty trend being put into otherwise great games. This doesn't have to be "Forza 5" to be upsetting.
I wouldn't use this option in the game, but it's a cynical and dishonest "feature" I won't support. I had absolutely every intention of picking this game up, but if it puts your mind at ease feel free to think I'm lying.
MoogleWizard said:
I'm not gonna deny myself from playing this game, but I'll only be picking it up used. I haven't bought a used game since like 2002, and even then that was just a bunch of old SNES RPGs including Earthbound with box/book. The game looks great but I have no desire to signal approval of including microtransactions with a retail purchase.
Desperation? Stockholm Syndrome? Really?
And this is nothing that needs to be defended, because there is nothing wrong with it. It doesn't affect the game. The game is build around that mechanic and it wants you to put your system in sleep mode to get it, so instead of just building up your city in sleep mode you are also getting a special item (on top of the other items you get for it) every once in a while.
You only bitch about that you CAN buy it. And that seams stupid to many here.
And this is nothing that needs to be defended, because there is nothing wrong with it. It doesn't affect the game. The game is build around that mechanic and it wants you to put your system in sleep mode to get it, so instead of just building up your city in sleep mode you are also getting a special item (on top of the other items you get for it) every once in a while.
You only bitch about that you CAN buy it. And that seams stupid to many here.
SkyTurnsRed
Banned
I too had every intention of buying this day one. I don't support this type of practice, regardless of whether or not that it is optional. This type of thing tells companies that it's okay to keep taking it further and further.
If they really wanted to make it easy for people to beat the game, put an option in the menu that lets people refill their Bravely Seconds. No need for a financial gain.
If they really wanted to make it easy for people to beat the game, put an option in the menu that lets people refill their Bravely Seconds. No need for a financial gain.
No it doesn't. It only tells them that if you buy these things. Not buying the game because of that tells SE only one thing: You don't want high quality jrpgs.
Glass Rebel
Member
People are free to do what they want with their money but refusing to buy Bravely Default on "principle" even though the microtransactions are in no way substantial makes you look a little silly. I agree that they shouldn't be in the game to begin with but it's such a minor thing to get mad about in a massive and great game.
By not buying Bravely Default you're voting against Bravely Default, not the microtransactions.
Bravely Seconds refill every 8h which is similar to the town rebuilding part.
By not buying Bravely Default you're voting against Bravely Default, not the microtransactions.
Bravely Seconds refill every 8h which is similar to the town rebuilding part.
I think you're viewing it backwards (and, to be fair, that's how they've expressed it): It's a financial gain because they want it to be a financial gain. But it's a financial gain in the form it is so it can help players beat the game without trivialising it.
Maybe it wasn't.
I sent this to one of the members of the previous discussion in a PM, but I'll reiterate the salient points here:
Financial considerations rule the roost for everything. Content is cut because it's too expensive to fully implement it. The workforce is overworked because that gets more hours of work for the same pay. DLC is included to open up new revenue streams other than the initial software sale. Token multiplayer is developed in an effort to keep the second-hand sales down. Games are released unfinished because the money has simply run out.
Think for a moment about the designer who actually *is* passionate about their game, and wants to make the best experience for their users. You believe that getting a higher budget would allow you to make the game better for everyone. What would you do in their shoes?
As I said, I just don't understand why this is a big deal. Sure, they try the p2w system that everyone hates. I don't see how you support this system if you buy this game. Let's say that 1/1000 people that buy the game pay for it. I'm pretty sure they'd realize this is not a viable system then. They may try another way to make extra money with the sequel, but are we sure that they'll try microtransactions again? People overreact a lot, I think the problem is them, not only the ones that defend the game. I completely enjoyed the demo and it's kinda frustating to watch people declare that they won't buy the game for an excuse like this. I think it's a really good game and I'll ignore the microtransactions on my part... Anyone is free to do whatever he wants with his money, I guess.
SkyTurnsRed
Banned
High quality JRPGs can come without microtransactions. Xenoblade Chronicles did just fine without them.
I'm not sure why that justifies the microtransactions still.
I still feel like adding an option for microtransactions trivializes the initial investment itself - you're already paying 39.99 for a game, why should you have to pay more? I understand that there are other ways to make it easier (difficulty level, encounter rate, etc.) - why couldn't this have been an option?
If all mobile RPGs were like Bravely Default, I would be in heaven and adopt mobile gaming whole hog.
The original version of this game did not have this SP system at all. It was totally fine. They didn't adjust this version to make it unbeatable without the SP system -- in fact, they made it easier and added difficulty levels.
Velcro Fly
Member
you don't have to pay more. you can get it by keeping your 3DS on the charging dock in sleep mode. and even still you don't even need to use it anyway, as has already been explained. having an option in the menu to refill it at will is like saying why can't we use limit breaks or overdrives at will and just fill them up by choosing to in the menu.
What kind of mobile games are you used to?
Actually, in the other thread I presented an argument as to why the initial investment ought to mean the design never goes fully towards tapping the 'whale' model; don't discount the impact of that initial purchase.
Anyhow, the answer to the important question that's not quite the one you're asking: Because it was budgeted on the assumption that a proportion of players would indeed be willing to pay more.
That's not a reason for you to pay more, necessarily, but that's why the option is there.
I'm rather surprised they didn't make the other aspects a pay-to-use thing, actually.
Glass Rebel
Member
The Bravely Second system needs no justification. It's there, it's a shame that it's there but luckily they give you several tools to not spend a single dime even if you're the worst JRPG player in existence.
Played the demo.. it's fun.
Your village grows over time using people you meet in "street pass" (no idea if it's possible to get more villagers in game any other way?)
Things take time to build like 8 hours to build a house (like a mobile game), and the more people you have the faster it goes.
Since I live in the UK street pass is hard to get, I really can't be arsed with this.
And microtransactions too?
Just lost a sale Square-enix. Well done!
Your village grows over time using people you meet in "street pass" (no idea if it's possible to get more villagers in game any other way?)
Things take time to build like 8 hours to build a house (like a mobile game), and the more people you have the faster it goes.
Since I live in the UK street pass is hard to get, I really can't be arsed with this.
And microtransactions too?
Just lost a sale Square-enix. Well done!
Xenoblade:
* Didn't make *much* profit
* Has value beyond profit due to being a first party title.
Bayonetta, most likely, will be the same in that regard.
Actually, the first-party factor is why I'm somewhat surprised Microsoft are pushing it. I suspect they're trying a plan B after the DRM thing fell through, in that they're trying to demonstrate to third parties the extra revenue stream potential in microtransactions.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
You guys should just buy the game and refuse to buy any IAP. That sends the clearer message about what you don't want, not buying the game just tells them that you don't want JRPGs.
So 30-40 hours then.
Most of the changes in completion time are because you can speed up the battle, lower the difficulty etc. I can battle normally and it would take me a min or two, with the speed animations I can finish one in 20-30 seconds for example.
This is a gem of a JRPG and the SP Drinks don't change anything or doesn't make it worse at all. Don't skip it because of that, it would be a shame
I'm at Chapter 3 atm and have 15 hours on my timer. Still a lot of stuff and chapters to go
This is a gem of a JRPG and the SP Drinks don't change anything or doesn't make it worse at all. Don't skip it because of that, it would be a shame
I'm at Chapter 3 atm and have 15 hours on my timer. Still a lot of stuff and chapters to go
The game gives you 1-3 people for free every day even if you don't Street pass. I played the original game without being able to streetpass at all and I still maxed out the town.
You could use the Streetpass relay. It takes just a couple of minutes to get dozens of citizens.
I've gathered around 11 people in the last 5 days by checking in daily on the servers. The max amount for each day is 3 indeed, but there aren't a lot of people playing right now in EU of course
ColonelColon
Member
If you don't want microtransaction-heavy game design, your best choice is to not buy games that include microtransactions, or at least buy used copies. If sales of a game aren't significantly decreased by adding microtransactions, then there's no reason to not include them. If they could sell just as many copies while including microtransactions, then the money they make from microtransactions is just the cherry on top. The microtransactions don't need to sell like hotcakes to justify including them.
You're not alone, I would gladly jump into the mobile train.
Also, remember that those "improvements" are for the Sequel, don't be surprised if Bravely Default 2 will have microtransaction too.
GhostTrick
Banned
Listen, I'm playing the game right now.
There is NO f2p elements. Let's take all the elements to explain to you what it is about:
Bravely Second is a new inclusion in the combat system, it's like a Joker. That Joker is totally optional and useless for the battles. It's pointless, and adds nothing to the battle system. It's just a temporary BONUS. It allows you to stop time for a moment to deal damage.
Now, if you're interested in that pointless, rushed bonus, you have two ways to use it:
Put your 3DS in sleep mode: Every 8 hours, you get 1SP so you can use it once.
Or, buy a SP drink to get 3SP.
The game won't bother you with this, it'll just tell you ONCE that you can use Bravely Second, and tell you can buy SP drinks if you want them fast. That's it and you'll never heard about this ever in the game. Not. a. single. word. Heck, Bravely Second isn't even displayed in the combat system. The game doesn't even told me how to activate it. I had to check all the buttons.
It's not about defending it, it's about stating facts. That's just NOT an excuse to skip this game, for a totally INVISIBLE feature likely made for really casuals people. And the game NEVER bother you with this. That's just a small feature which FIRST requires you to put your 3DS in sleep mode OR to buy points.
Now, if people want to boycott it for pseudo reasons, then do it. The only thing you'll succeed in doing is to show that West doesn't care about J-RPG. You want to show that you don't like microtransactions in your game ? Buy the game, don't use the microtransactions.
It's not like there are no alternatives. I'll be avoiding these types of games regardless of how seamless the inclusion is.
Edit:
This specific type of microtransaction.
Black Door
Banned
Irony: All of the people struggling with the demo